Australia, PNG to discuss future of controversial asylum seeker camp

[simple1]

25 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Germany and Sweden are very good examples of what happens when you open your doors to "refugees", in most cases economic. What happens to all the muslim women, as it appears the refugees are in the majority men. Were the women just abandoned to fend for themselves in their middle eastern hell hole. Get your own house in order before piggybacking on another culture that's fought hard for their democracy and freedoms. 

Nothing to do with Oz - diversionary drivel

[giddyup]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Nothing to do with Oz - diversionary drivel

Australia is trying to avoid their mistakes, or is that a bit hard to understand? What is the rest of the world supposed to do, keep on taking refugees from countries that can never resolve their conflicts until none are left?

Edited April 7, 2017 by giddyup

[simple1]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

Australia is trying to avoid their mistakes, or is that a bit hard to understand?

Policy has already been established - off topic diversionary Muslim bashing

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Policy has already been established - off topic diversionary Muslim bashing

Failure to see the  reality and head placed firmly where the sun don't shine.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

41 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Perhaps this generation of muslim immigrants will contribute also to our development. Despite the nasty name calling and fear based bigotry of the 'nationalists'.

Believe it (if I live long enough) when I see it.  I said customs that were either barbaric or illegal, like clitorectomy, stoning, removal of body parts as a form of punishment, honour killings etc. You are obviously either muslim or an apologist, so no point in me discussing the matter any further with you. Perhaps you should watch a few Christopher Hitchens videos on Youtube.

 

I will take this as a concession that your attempt to vilify muslim immigrants to Australia to not reach the level of serious debate since you resort to unsubstantiated name calling and wanton assertions of things that you could not possibly know and exist only in your imagination.

 

I am, like Hitchens avowably atheist and have respected his and Dawkin's views for a long time. However unlike you, I do not require others to conform to my reality and I do not make bigoted judgements on such people. Like I said, 'Islamic Terrorism' is a criminal justice issue. If anyone governed by the laws of Australia commit crimes, including honor killings and mutilations that are clearly in violation of the law, then the criminal justice system will deal with them.

 

Why is your hysterical fear mongering only applied to followers of Islam and not applied evenly to all religious devotees? I call BS on your ecumenical intolerance.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

2 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Failure to see the  reality and head placed firmly where the sun don't shine.

 

Apparently the same place from which you extract your opinions.

[giddyup]

23 minutes ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

I will take this as a concession that your attempt to vilify muslim immigrants to Australia to not reach the level of serious debate since you resort to unsubstantiated name calling and wanton assertions of things that you could not possibly know and exist only in your imagination.

 

I am, like Hitchens avowably atheist and have respected his and Dawkin's views for a long time. However unlike you, I do not require others to conform to my reality and I do not make bigoted judgements on such people. Like I said, 'Islamic Terrorism' is a criminal justice issue. If anyone governed by the laws of Australia commit crimes, including honor killings and mutilations that are clearly in violation of the law, then the criminal justice system will deal with them.

 

Why is your hysterical fear mongering only applied to followers of Islam and not applied evenly to all religious devotees? I call BS on your ecumenical intolerance.

 

21 minutes ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

Apparently the same place from which you extract your opinions.

Far from hysterical, unlike you I see the writing on the wall for an influx of muslim migrants to Australia, and in answer re other religious denominations,  I haven't seen too many Christian, Buddhist or Hindu suicide bombers lately.  As I said previously, let them get their own house in order, fight for the same freedoms and way of life as the west, but we both know that's an impossibility, too busy trying to extract revenge for past slights and grievances.

Edited April 7, 2017 by giddyup

[Minnie the Minx]

20 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Policy has already been established - off topic diversionary Muslim bashing

Nobody is 'bashing' any cult cheers, only their inability to integrate and support themselves. 

[Minnie the Minx]

7 minutes ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

Your point eludes me. You believe that all children of refugees should not be able to access subsidized higher education? Or jus the children of refugees from those countries which you refuse to name?

 

One assumes your primary and secondary and perhaps your undergraduate education was free or heavily subsidies by the State. If you or your parents were able to pay for your post graduate study, then clearly the means testing system was working. Or do you believe you have some entitlement or priority over others for some reason?

 

Do you have an alternative approach to the government meetings its international treaty obligations with regards to refugees? Some litmus test perhaps. Or some series of hoops through which they have to jump to justify them getting a benefit over you?

 

I do not support the policy of off shore detention but I have indicated in other posts that I would accept this practice if it was a genuine and objectively demonstrated effective tool against human traffickers. In exchange, I believe that Australia should significantly increase the numbers of refugees screened through standard processes and immigrants that are welcomed to the country.

Oh get off the high horse before it bolts.

 

It goes on income. My mother Swiss, father Aussie. ..and you spelt/spelled 'jus' wrong.

 

Why should higher education be free to refugees? When they go back to their hated homeland. 

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

2 minutes ago, Minnie the Minx said:

Oh get off the high horse before it bolts.

 

It goes on income. My mother Swiss, father Aussie. ..and you spelt/spelled 'jus' wrong.

 

Why should higher education be free to refugees? When they go back to their hated homeland. 

 

I am not the one complaining about being denied an entitlement to free higher education. I specifically asked if you had some alternative approach to the government meeting its obligations to refugees. Clearly you do not. Merely a belief that they should not be given more free stuff than yourself.

 

I do know that subsidies for higher education works on income. For your benefit, that is what 'means-tested' means and why I used the term.

 

Thank you for the spell check from a previous post even though such posts become anachronistic seconds after publication. However you did not consider that I was using the word in its context of a French term for a thin gravy and which in this case, forms the correct spelling.

 

You introduced the concept of equivalence in entitlements. I was merely asking for more detail on the criteria underlying your policy proposal. Your lack of ability to elaborate such criteria justifies my imperiousness. If you are going to express bigoted statements against muslim refugees, you may want to be prepared to back up your statements with more than just the typical hysterical and completely misrepresented references to Sweden and Germany and the rest.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

28 minutes ago, giddyup said:

 

Far form hysterical, unlike you I see the writing on the wall for an influx of muslim migrants to Australia, and in answer re other religious denominations,  I haven't seen too many Christian, Buddhist or Hindu suicide bombers lately.  As I said previously, let them get their own house in order, fight for the same freedoms and way of life as the west, but we both know that's an impossibility, too busy trying to extract revenge for past slights and grievances.

 

You introduce references to historical causes for what you see as muslim or Islamic extremism. There could be some merit in this line of discussion but it is clearly off topic and I doubt that you would be intellectually honest in such a discussion. So we can ignore that little diversion.

 

Your main claim to back your irrational hatred of and opposition to muslim immigrants is the introduction of a moral relativism the is frankly purely imaginary. Agreed, the scale of criminal acts committed by insurgents in the name of Islam seems to be currently significant but I would argue that this is due to a connection with political objectives held by such groups, in the same way that the Northern Ireland schism was religiously based but exacerbated by political disagreement. There are plenty of examples of heinous acts being committed by non muslim people. You clearly don't live in rural Victoria where exorcisms have long been a popular form of child rearing.

 

Defeating the devil: why exorcism in Australia is on the rise

http://www.smh.com.au/good-weekend/defeating-the-devil-why-exorcism-in-australia-is-on-the-rise-20150120-12uild.html

 

You may also want to refer to the history of violent acts against muslim people by Hindus in India.

 

So ignoring the attempt to introduce historical diversions and taking into account your demonstratively false moral relativism, what are we left with? Basically an anti muslim bigotry. Which is fine but please don't insult our intelligence by pretending it is something else.

[Minnie the Minx]

46 minutes ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

I am not the one complaining about being denied an entitlement to free higher education. I specifically asked if you had some alternative approach to the government meeting its obligations to refugees. Clearly you do not. Merely a belief that they should not be given more free stuff than yourself.

 

I do know that subsidies for higher education works on income. For your benefit, that is what 'means-tested' means and why I used the term.

 

Thank you for the spell check from a previous post even though such posts become anachronistic seconds after publication. However you did not consider that I was using the word in its context of a French term for a thin gravy and which in this case, forms the correct spelling.

 

You introduced the concept of equivalence in entitlements. I was merely asking for more detail on the criteria underlying your policy proposal. Your lack of ability to elaborate such criteria justifies my imperiousness. If you are going to express bigoted statements against muslim refugees, you may want to be prepared to back up your statements with more than just the typical hysterical and completely misrepresented references to Sweden and Germany and the rest.

Laterz babe, I'm going swimming, and don't bring the French into this.

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

I am not the one complaining about being denied an entitlement to free higher education. I specifically asked if you had some alternative approach to the government meeting its obligations to refugees. Clearly you do not. Merely a belief that they should not be given more free stuff than yourself.

 

I do know that subsidies for higher education works on income. For your benefit, that is what 'means-tested' means and why I used the term.

 

Thank you for the spell check from a previous post even though such posts become anachronistic seconds after publication. However you did not consider that I was using the word in its context of a French term for a thin gravy and which in this case, forms the correct spelling.

 

You introduced the concept of equivalence in entitlements. I was merely asking for more detail on the criteria underlying your policy proposal. Your lack of ability to elaborate such criteria justifies my imperiousness. If you are going to express bigoted statements against muslim refugees, you may want to be prepared to back up your statements with more than just the typical hysterical and completely misrepresented references to Sweden and Germany and the rest.

 

29 minutes ago, Minnie the Minx said:

Laterz babe, I'm going swimming, and don't bring the French into this.

In other words, you've got nothing.

[giddyup]

So ignoring the attempt to introduce historical diversions and taking into account your demonstratively false moral relativism, what are we left with? Basically an anti muslim bigotry. Which is fine but please don't insult our intelligence by pretending it is something else.

 

Oh, I am definitely anti-muslim, never tried to hide it, unlike the hypocrisy that muslims preach. Religion of peace? Give me a break. BTW,I notice that  you never addressed my "getting your own house in order" comments. Of course we all know it's far easier to piggyback on someone else's achievements rather than fight for your own.

[Minnie the Minx]

I am honestly swimming and disengaging from the discussion for now. Stop quoting me it goes to my mobile.

 

It is not polite to make assumptions in absentia.

 

How rude are you lot?

 

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2017 by Minnie the Minx

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed and a reply. 

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

2 hours ago, giddyup said:

So ignoring the attempt to introduce historical diversions and taking into account your demonstratively false moral relativism, what are we left with? Basically an anti muslim bigotry. Which is fine but please don't insult our intelligence by pretending it is something else.

 

Oh, I am definitely anti-muslim, never tried to hide it, unlike the hypocrisy that muslims preach. Religion of peace? Give me a break. BTW,I notice that  you never addressed my "getting your own house in order" comments. Of course we all know it's far easier to piggyback on someone else's achievements rather than fight for your own.

 

Why am I required to respond to anything?

 

Who are 'they' and where is their 'house'? Why is 'their house' in disarray? How can one respond to such generalized garbage. Are you talking about Syria and your presumption that Syrian refugees should be fighting and dying to affect political change there? Are you talking about Afghanistan which is reeling from invasions by the Russians and Americans and about 30 years of civil war? Are you talking about Palestinians who were dispossessed by Israeli colonization and suffer significant challenges in establishing a functioning country. Are you talking about Iraq which had its physical, government and military infrastructure destroyed by the United States and the exposure of sectarian rifts that still paralyze th country.

 

Shall I go on?

 

What incoherent stupidity to paint all these countries as dysfunctional due to their religion. They are dysfunctional due to historic colonization. They are dysfunctional due to authoritarian governments constraining economic growth and social development. Some are dysfunctional because they are in the middle of a civil war or are bing used as proxies by super-power wannabees. Just what do you expect these people to do?

 

What grotesque inhumanity to blame these people for their own victimhood. All just because of your hatred. 

 

I work on projects currently in Palestine and Afghanistan. I have worked previously in Iraq. I work on finance and infrastructure. I work directly with governments to assist them and see first hand the range of challenges and issues. Your perception of the issue in terms of getting 'houses' in order is facile, shallow and based on admitted prejudice. Why should I or anyone respond to that?

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

2 hours ago, Minnie the Minx said:

I am honestly swimming and disengaging from the discussion for now. Stop quoting me it goes to my mobile.

 

It is not polite to make assumptions in absentia.

 

How rude are you lot?

 

 

 

 

 

Yet you make gross assumptions about muslim people and refugees entirely in absentia.

 

You should not post off topic irrelevancies that waste everyone's time. It is against forum rules.

[Miaow]

 

Yet you make gross assumptions about muslim people and refugees entirely in absentia.

 

You should not post off topic irrelevancies that waste everyone's time. It is against forum rules.

Now easy fellow, i've never authorized you to speak on my behalf.You are the one making assumptions here...just sayin

 

 

Sent from my iPad

[giddyup]

20 minutes ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

Why am I required to respond to anything?

 

Who are 'they' and where is their 'house'? Why is 'their house' in disarray? How can one respond to such generalized garbage. Are you talking about Syria and your presumption that Syrian refugees should be fighting and dying to affect political change there? Are you talking about Afghanistan which is reeling from invasions by the Russians and Americans and about 30 years of civil war? Are you talking about Palestinians who were dispossessed by Israeli colonization and suffer significant challenges in establishing a functioning country. Are you talking about Iraq which had its physical, government and military infrastructure destroyed by the United States and the exposure of sectarian rifts that still paralyze th country.

 

Shall I go on?

 

What incoherent stupidity to paint all these countries as dysfunctional due to their religion. They are dysfunctional due to historic colonization. They are dysfunctional due to authoritarian governments constraining economic growth and social development. Some are dysfunctional because they are in the middle of a civil war or are bing used as proxies by super-power wannabees. Just what do you expect these people to do?

 

What grotesque inhumanity to blame these people for their own victimhood. All just because of your hatred. 

 

I work on projects currently in Palestine and Afghanistan. I have worked previously in Iraq. I work on finance and infrastructure. I work directly with governments to assist them and see first hand the range of challenges and issues. Your perception of the issue in terms of getting 'houses' in order is facile, shallow and based on admitted prejudice. Why should I or anyone respond to that?

Excuses, excuses, excuses. Always someone else's fault. Now where have I heard that before? You neglected to mention the Crusaders, surely they have to be blamed for the current state of affairs?

Edited April 7, 2017 by giddyup

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

Just now, giddyup said:

Why should I or anyone respond to that?  Yet you have, ad nauseam.

 

I responded because you specifically directed me to your comment. Clearly the observation that you have no business expecting anyone to respond to anything you say has completely passed you by.

 

Your physical condition is of complete disinterest to me.

 

Got anything to say about the topic or are you just making this about me to avoid taking responsibility for your unacceptable comments about refugees and immigrants?

[Miaow]

 
Are you Minnie the Minx? If not, why are you answering a post that replied to that member. If you are, then why do you have two usernames?
 
If you are going to direct posts at me, then please try to be at least somewhat coherent and link your comment to something vaguely representing the discussion, the topic or something I have said in a post. The non sequitur that you have directed to me is completely unintelligible.

Cough...cough...I posted your quote that says, and i quote again" you should not post off topic irrelevancies that waste everyone's time"
Now listen carefully young man, i have not authorized you to speak on my behalf. Minnie didn't waste none of my time...You are the one making assumptions here.. again, just sayin....


Sent from my iPad

[Scott]

The bickering needs to stop.  

 

Stay on topic and quit with the remarks directed at others.

[simple1]

11 hours ago, giddyup said:

Failure to see the  reality and head placed firmly where the sun don't shine.

Rubbish. Oz government has established policy and procedures for asylum seeker processing, admittance of refugees, enacted relevant additional legislation to address acts of extremism by all groups/ individuals and will enact further legislation if required.

 

To keep on keeping on with generalised Muslim vilification messaging is self indulgent bigotry and counter to advise by professionals in Australian security agencies. 

[BEVUP]

20 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

How does the US justify providing accomodation and jobs for refugees when many US citizens are unemployed and homeless, and even more scandalous, many homeless are veterans. I'm not saying put the refugees on the street, but homes should be provided for the homeless as well.

Just like Australia & they don't need to be refugees thats why i dont recognise Anzac day because i wouldnt of expected our forefathers would of fought a war to see the current results or stand beside a bunch of Kiwis that are only Residents thinking their Aussies & having every right to any of our jobs ( i always thought you at least needed to be Trade qualified to add some benifit to your new country ) but then again both sides of Government have sold the workers out to the Chinese (any project above 150 mil they can bring in their own ) 

[steven100]

Stop bickering and lets discuss like proper adults and not a bunch of wild kids .....

 

Australia has rules in place that protect it's borders from asylum seekers who try to enter Australia illegally with reference by boat.

Thats it's policy and it appears to be working.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, simple1 said:

Incorrect.

 

"asylum seekers who come here by boat without a visa will never be settled in Australia",

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Solution

 

By stopping illegal immigration by boat it saved many lives.

Refugees can come by plane, so it's not part of a plan to stop all refugees.

Edited April 8, 2017 by thaibeachlovers

[metisdead]

Posts containing profane and offensive language have been removed as well as the replies. 

[simple1]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

,snip>

Refugees can come by plane, so it's not part of a plan to stop all refugees.

The topic is in reference to 'boat people' that is what you commented on to which I accurately replied.

[F4UCorsair]

On 4/6/2017 at 5:33 PM, giddyup said:

There will be no "easy street" that they were expecting in Australia. I don't imagine Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras will be offering the free housing, medical and a very generous welfare system that Australia does. Be interesting to know how many "refugees" opt to be returned to their home countries.

Too many will become problems for Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras!!

 

Of the few who opted for the Cambodian resettlement, all have returned 'home'.   They decided home wasn't so bad after all.