Trump unleashes military strikes against Assad airbase in Syria

[dunroaming]

Responses coming in are all fairly predictable with Russia condemning the attack and most European countries tentatively approving the action.  There is much showing of Trump's earlier condemnations of Obama with his numerous tweets concerning Syria and also some of his campaign rants.  Certainly a big time U-turn but I think forgivable given the circumstances.  Not sure his supporters will see it the same way.

[sujoop]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

1 hour ago, sujoop said:

 

 

 

1) Putin's troops knew to stand down and get out of the way in advance

2) Of course Russia knew and knows  where every aircraft goes from 'their' controlled Syrian airfields and also what they're carrying.
 

 

 

 

It was reported that the Russian were forewarned by the US, so the standing down part is no mystery. Russia obviously got a handle on relevant air traffic and communications intercepts, and the same goes for the US and the UK. The level of the supposed "control" they exercise over Syrian air bases and operations is a matter of speculation (at least with regard to the limitations of this forum).

 

I don't think that the Russians are particularly troubled by Syrian forces using chemical weapons (or more precisely, chlorine) - as long as they can deny culpability and that exact details remain vague.

 

It's possible that the whole thing is a finally orchestrated diversion, but that requires giving the Trump administration quite some credit. From what we've seen so far, not exactly the most competent administration, and with so many willing to spill the beans and following their tracks - would be a hard one to pull.

 

Not saying for a second dumb-Trump orchestrated this, he's far too much of a blunderbuss and an utterly self-absorbed fool to be able to come up with such a cohesive plan. However, it all fits Putin's wheelhouse of cunning and calculating perfectly well and Trump went right along with it. I agree that Putin likely isn't bothered much by the gassing of innocents, any more than Trump has any real empathy or use for Muslim's (unless they're very rich Muslims of course).
 

Bottom line? Trump gets a badly needed ratings boost and the heats off both Trump & Putin as Russia-Gate is suddenly out of the headlines (mission accomplished). Now they can pretend to be opponents and carry on with less heat. Next up, a very dangerous distraction with N Korea for Trump, and Vlad eyes up the Balkans etc whilst merrily continuing to meddle with western elections via  upcoming European polls and generally spreading nationalism and eroding western institutions and economic unions.

 

[TomTC]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

some genuine evidence would be interesting.

AGREED!!!!!

So far there is sod all, just a load of people saying what they think as if it's fact. Ron Paul has got it right.

110% right.

[onthesoi]

34 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Bush and Blair aren't in charge.  This isn't 15 years ago in a different country.  Apples and oranges.  Pretty much every world leader from the Western world is supporting this.  And guaranteed, they have better info available to them than we do.  With respect.

rofl ...you start off saying it's completely different and then in the same breathe you described it as being exactly the same.

 

Did not pretty much every world leader from the Western world support the invasion of Iraq.  And did they not guarantee, they had better info/intelligence available to them than we do...regarding WMDs?

[KunMatt]

11 minutes ago, CGW said:

O dear! if the cap fits.............

Or the white helmet in this instance.

[attrayant]

10 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

rofl ...you start off saying it's completely different and then in the same breathe you described it as being exactly the same.

 

Did not pretty much every world leader from the Western world support the invasion of Iraq.  And did they not guarantee, they had better info/intelligence available to them than we do...regarding WMDs?

 

Instead of "Just Asking Questions" (or JAQing off), why don't you support your position?  Here - it works like this:

 

This is a map that shows the global support for the Iraq war prior to invasion:

 

 

Turns out it's not "exactly the same" after all.

[Rob13]

This thread  reminds me of OJ's chase around LA.; people were standing on the side of the road  holding up signs saying "OJ's Innocent'....seriously how the <deleted> could anybody not directly involved know know what the real story is?

[ilostmypassword]

The US warned the Russians ahead of Syria missile strikes

 

A U.S. official said the Russians had been warned before the U.S. launched at least 59 tomahawk missiles aimed at Syria.

Pentagon spokesman Captain Jeff Davis said in an official statement: "Russian forces were notified in advance of the strike using the established deconfliction line. U.S. military planners took precautions to minimize risk to Russian or Syrian personnel located at the airfield."

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/06/the-us-warned-the-russians-ahead-of-syria-missile-strikes-official.html

 

 

[Andaman Al]

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

The US warned the Russians ahead of Syria missile strikes

 

A U.S. official said the Russians had been warned before the U.S. launched at least 59 tomahawk missiles aimed at Syria.

Pentagon spokesman Captain Jeff Davis said in an official statement: "Russian forces were notified in advance of the strike using the established deconfliction line. U.S. military planners took precautions to minimize risk to Russian or Syrian personnel located at the airfield."

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/06/the-us-warned-the-russians-ahead-of-syria-missile-strikes-official.html

 

 

I guess the Russians would have warned the Syrians then.

[boomerangutang]

7 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

ANYBODY Is a better leader than Obama!!

This action Is all that Assad understands.  Diplomacy gets nowhere with the likes of him.

No need to put down Obama.  

 

          I agree that Assad is a tyrant.  Yet maybe you forgot that Trump's campaign ran on promises of not getting involved in wars overseas.  Then other times, Trump would say what a 5 year old would say, "bomb the hell out of them."  Then, other times, Trump would say he has a secret plan for wiping out ISIS, and that he's also smarter than all the US generals (yet again, something a 5 year old would say).   

 

           At this juncture, my reaction to today's bombing is: it was justified, but used too many bombs.  Someone mentioned earlier, each Tomahawk costs around $1.3 million.  How many were deployed?  59?  The cost is probably closer to $2 million each, when all the support structure/personnel is taken into account.   How many Tomahawks does it take to destroy some parked fighter craft?   Well anyway, Raytheon is happy, because they supply the missiles, and Russia is happy, because they'll get paid to replace the jets which were destroyed.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Andaman Al said:

Fasten your seat belts!

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/07/russia-halts-air-safety-deal-us-syria-warns-considerable-damage/

 

Considering Russia was informed of the attack, the outrage seems scripted. But it will no doubt be used to further entrench Russia's hold on Syria. Further, as it is unlikely Trump is seeking a head on confrontation with Russia, he might as well back down under one pretext or another. This would play nicely for Putin, as it will, once more, cast the US as indecisive and untrustworthy.

[Rob13]

Quote

 

Here are 14 questions that proponents of war in Syria must answer before anyone considers whether military intervention to remove Assad is the best course of action for the American people.

 

1) What national security interest, rather than pure humanitarian interest, is served by the use of American military power to depose Assad’s regime?

 

2) How will deposing Assad make America safer?

 

http://thefederalist.com/2017/04/06/so-you-want-to-go-to-war-in-syria-to-depose-assad-can-you-answer-these-questions-first/

[Morch]

15 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

I guess the Russians would have warned the Syrians then.

 

Would have been kinda obvious if they evacuated the premises on short notice.

[bokningar]

What is the best move to do if you are suspected for being in bed with the Russians, if you don't want to hurt Russian's.

Hit Russian allies that is "expendable" for the Russians.

At least you will make your self look like you go against the Russians.

 

A great way to deflect any accusations you'r in bet with them  

 

[attrayant]

 

22 minutes ago, CGW said:

I find this thread refreshing! people (most!) are no longer taking the powers that be or the MSM word as gospel and questioning just what is the truth! If we don't question them, while they are hiding in their safe houses/bunkers & we will have !hit raining down on us!

 

Welcome to the Age of Stupid, where nobody trusts scientists, experts, governments or even eyewitness and actual video evidence, instead preferring to sit back in their arm chair and "open their mind" so widely that their brains fall out.  We have these people to thank for anti-fluoride campaigns, climate change deniers, anti-GMO terrorists, flat-earth believers, anti-vaxers and alt-med fruitcakes.  I'm only stopping there because I can't think of enough pejorative terms for the rest of these people.

Edited April 7, 2017 by attrayant

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, onthesoi said:

rofl ...you start off saying it's completely different and then in the same breathe you described it as being exactly the same.

 

Did not pretty much every world leader from the Western world support the invasion of Iraq.  And did they not guarantee, they had better info/intelligence available to them than we do...regarding WMDs?

I never said it was the same.  For Iraq II. Pretty much every western nation was opposed. Remember France refusing to participate? 

 

Research is a good thing.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_the_Iraq_War

[onthesoi]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

And you prefer to trust the great humanitarians Assad and Putin?

Nice strawman argument you got there Morch...

 

Quote me saying anything of the kind then I'll reply to it!

 

If you read my post carefully again you will see my sources are from the New York Times not RT or AT.

Edited April 7, 2017 by onthesoi

[geriatrickid]

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

According to google, one such missile costs 1.4 milllion $. 50 missiles.............. that's a lot of money to make a point. I doubt they made much real difference, and the point could have been made with a few. 

IMO, Trump will regret getting involved in Syria. If Assad is removed a Libyan type anarchy is likely to emerge, as all the different opposition groups probably hate each other.

Better by far to ignore Turkey and give the Kurds whatever they need to do the job. They are the only group I would have time for in a post Assad scenario.

In case you missed it, there already is anarchy and a civil war. The forces  who have opposed Assad and who have been most effective against ISIL were sympathetic to the west. Instead, your position has allowed Iran, Hizbollah, Russia and ISIL to do as they please.

[Morch]

Just now, onthesoi said:

Nice strawman argument there Morch...

 

Quote me saying anything of the kind then I'l reply to it!

 

There are two main versions to explain the attack. You strongly denounce one of them. That leaves the other.

[Godolphin]

1 hour ago, sujoop said:

 

Not saying for a second dumb-Trump orchestrated this, he's far too much of a blunderbuss and an utterly self-absorbed fool to be able to come up with such a cohesive plan. However, it all fits Putin's wheelhouse of cunning and calculating perfectly well and Trump went right along with it. I agree that Putin likely isn't bothered much by the gassing of innocents, any more than Trump has any real empathy or use for Muslim's (unless they're very rich Muslims of course).
 

Bottom line? Trump gets a badly needed ratings boost and the heats off both Trump & Putin as Russia-Gate is suddenly out of the headlines (mission accomplished). Now they can pretend to be opponents and carry on with less heat. Next up, a very dangerous distraction with N Korea for Trump, and Vlad eyes up the Balkans etc whilst merrily continuing to meddle with western elections via  upcoming European polls and generally spreading nationalism and eroding western institutions and economic unions.

 

Right on the money there sujoop. The heat from an array of issues (Bannon, Nunes, Gorsusch, and so on) stays off temporarily but this fragile, chaotic man has to now handle Xi Jingping, outplay Putin, juggle GOP forces and garner support from allies who he has publicly ridiculed and offended.

 

All this with a Trump fingertip away from forces which could lead to the extinction of the human race.

 

It's one thing being an entrepreneur and TV celebrity and totally another to lead a great nation through armed conflict and diplomatic dilemmas.

 

Given this reckless clown's record so far, anything could happen.

 

Stay tuned.

 

[boomerangutang]

                     I can picture the Russian who got the phone call, "Yanks saying they are about to bomb your airfield. This is not joke, Get your and your comrades' butts out of there immediately!"   Sergei drops the phone. shouts to his buddies.  All Syrians within earshot hear the commotion, and also head for the exits.  

 

            Interesting new twist on warfare.  Tell folks at the target they're being targeted.  It's kinda cool.  I mean, the US is not at war with the Syrians or the Russkies.  So if Uncle Sam wants to give the Syrian air force a spanking, then ok, destroy some of their jets, but don't kill the poor buttplugs who are only following orders from the #1 buttplug in Damascus (if that's what really happened).

[daveAustin]

1 hour ago, bokningar said:

What is the best move to do if you are suspected for being in bed with the Russians, if you don't want to hurt Russian's.

Hit Russian allies that is "expendable" for the Russians.

At least you will make your self look like you go against the Russians.

 

A great way to deflect any accusations you'r in bet with them  

... orrr, it could be retaliation for using chemical weapons on kids.

[anon4546543]

12 hours ago, Rob13 said:

Who makes the cruise missles and whats trumps holdings in that company?

Boeing make the missiles. Who know what Trumps financial holding are. He does not pay much in the way of taxes and no one is prepared to investigate him. 

[Scott]

Off-topic post and reply removed. 

[attrayant]

You people are really pissing me off by making me defend Trump.

 

 

 

Do you really believe Trump cares a jot about dead babies in the middle east? ...I mean really?

 

I will believe that until some credible source gives me a more logical and probable thing to believe.

 

Look, Trump may be a failed businessman with a soul full of garlic and dead spiders who lied his way into the presidency, but he has children, including a young son. I have very little doubt that those images of children gasping at their last breaths moved him to an emotional response. Unfortunately, he is a man with cruise misses at his disposal.

 

If, in the future, evidence materializes that shows he did this only to drive up stock in Raytheon, as some have callously joked, then I'll reevaluate my opinion of him at that time.

 

Also, did you really just gave me two links to the New York Times and then chide me for taking the mainstream media at face value?

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.   The thread is about sources of information.  

[thaihome]

7 hours ago, Gulfsailor said:

It started because Europe wants to buy gas from Qatar. For that to happen a pipeline needs to run through Syria and Turkey.  Russia doesn't want to lose the clientele, so tells Assad to not allow the pipeline. Europe, Turkey, UAE and US agree to get rid of Assad, and a civil war is the result. 

A very old debunked conspiracy theory that on the surface seems to make someone sound very knowledgeable in ME petro-politics.  Even today, it continues to be put forward as a viable theory for the Syrian civil war. Only problem is it does not actually take into account reality of the Saudi-Qatari relationship or the economics of such a pipeline.  

 

From 2013:

 

 The latest conspiracy theory regarding Syria is that this is all a Qatari plot designed to open up a route for a natural gas pipeline. (Google Qatar Syria Gas Pipeline and you get about 1.3 million hits, virtually all of the first several hundred are about this theory.)

Several comments.

First, consider the source. This is has been a Syrian propaganda line since very early on.

Second, consider who is flogging this theory, notably Alex Jones and Zerohedge, both of whom are reliable Putin pilot fish, with the former being a notorious propagator of outlandish conspiracy theories involving the US government, including 911 Truther type conspiracies.

Third, and by far most importantly, the theory doesnt explain one crucial fact: Saudi support for Assads overthrow. Indeed, if this reductionist conspiracy theory were correct, the Saudis would be throwing everything behind Assad, not trying to oust him.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/conspiracy-theory-debunked-syria-war-is-not-for-qatari-pipeline.278960/

 

The reality is Assad is Russia's sole connection to remain relevant in the ME and oppose any US influence in the region (similar to republican automatic opposition to anything Obama did).  

 

Today we see full well that the Trump administration has no actual plan or policy for the Syrian shit storm and is only capable of a knee jerk reaction to video shown on international media while claiming to be be "decisive" by taking action that 4 years ago the same actions were derided as ill-advised and illegal.  

 

I guess the only good to come of this is the apparent rejection of Trump of his far right base due to the cruise missle  strikes against an authoritarian regimen they support.

TH 

[thaihome]

1 hour ago, attrayant said:

You people are really pissing me off by making me defend Trump.

 

 

 

 

I will believe that until some credible source gives me a more logical and probable thing to believe.

 

Look, Trump may be a failed businessman with a soul full of garlic and dead spiders who lied his way into the presidency, but he has children, including a young son. I have very little doubt that those images of children gasping at their last breaths moved him to an emotional response. Unfortunately, he is a man with cruise misses at his disposal.

 

If, in the future, evidence materializes that shows he did this only to drive up stock in Raytheon, as some have callously joked, then I'll reevaluate my opinion of him at that time.

 

Also, did you really just gave me two links to the New York Times and then chide me for taking the mainstream media at face value?

 

So why are the videos from last week different then the one from 2013/14 when Trump emphatically told Obama not to take action in Syria for similar gas attacks and required congressional approval  to do so in retaliation for gas attacks that actually killed more people?

 

https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=%23&ved=0ahUKEwjcrPHN9JLTAhUER48KHXnyCwYQxa8BCBowAQ&usg=AFQjCNF1sHlk2z9QIx28jtvfnGP_UlkifA&sig2=5jqJ57WLnUTWX8p6xNYynQ

 

TH 

 

[Credo]

At a minimum, I hope this is the end of the use of chemical weapons.   

 

I am not a Trump fan, but he has put the region on notice that somethings won't be tolerated.   Hopefully, North Korea is paying attention.   

 

 

[thaihome]

10 minutes ago, Credo said:

At a minimum, I hope this is the end of the use of chemical weapons.   

 

I am not a Trump fan, but he has put the region on notice that somethings won't be tolerated.   Hopefully, North Korea is paying attention.   

 

 

 

Do you honestly believe that that sending 59 cruise missiles against an airbase that you warned ahead of times to avoid any Russian causalities is some sort of "notice that somethings won't be tolerated"? As Russia will replace any damage please explain how this actually hurt Assad?

 

Sending a couple of cruise missle to his residence might be a message, but this is just propaganda. 

TH