Thinglish: Why professional Thais still use ‘ka’ and ‘krub’ when speaking English

[mesquite]

11 hours ago, djayz said:

Probably the same reason why so many younger native English speakers can't formulate a single sentence without using "like". 

In the past it seemed to be predominantly young Americans, but recently I've noticed more and more young Brits using it too... 

I like so hate this word like... 

 

 

 

Or starting it with the word "So"

Edited April 8, 2017 by mesquite

[mesquite]

3 hours ago, janhkt said:

I'm wondering about "krub" as well.

 

Krup as in cup.

Krap as in car.

 

I'm hearing the latter one, and using it. Maybe some are refraining from using "krap" because they're reading/hearing a flat a (as in "crap"). "Krup" as in "cup" does not sound like what the thais say, unless you pronounce "cup" as "karp".

And you are wrong.  http://www.thai-language.com/id/131341

 

[fruitman]

Nobody says krab, they say klab....and nung loi or loi nung.

 

Have you heard those radiocommercials about the avocadoooooo oyyy?? (avocado-oil)

[smotherb]

15 hours ago, djayz said:

Probably the same reason why so many younger native English speakers can't formulate a single sentence without using "like". 

In the past it seemed to be predominantly young Americans, but recently I've noticed more and more young Brits using it too... 

I like so hate this word like... 

 

 

 

Words such as, "like," "whatever," "shut-up," er, ah, uh" etc., ad finitum are used mainly because the people using them do not know the word they want to say. As explained; 'ka," "krub," or  even "krap" are polite particles--not same-same.

 

[Grusa]

Not that I am any kind of an expert, or even a mediocre speaker of Thai, I am surprised that no one has stated the glaringly obvious:

1. krap, however you chose to spell or phoneticise it, is a very impolite word in English, and causes huge mental hang-ups,

2. For that very reason many farang, myself included, choose to say "kap", which seems to be perfectly acceptable to the Thai, and I believe is regionally correct,

3. The use of Ka or Krap is frequently a marker for the .sexual orientation of the speaker.

 

I have no doubt those better informed will correct me.............

[alocacoc]

imo, Krap is the official version. It's used on TV, cinema and so on. How ever,  actually I like it when they use it also in an english conversation. Somehow cute.

[louse1953]

8 hours ago, transam said:

As an English guy in LOS I still say.....eeeeeeeeeeeer.............

Thais love it when i errrrrrrr.Where did you learn that they ask.Bloody hell,off you lot,every day.

[FritsSikkink]

10 hours ago, wirat69 said:

KRUP, as in cup, is correct. Roll the "R" like a Scotsman to be perfectly correct. Just as Thai can't speak English correctly, same same, no difference, with Thai language where "R" can be pronounced "L" or omitted completely 

Where is the "u" in the Thai spelling: ครับ it is an "a"

[grollies]

2 hours ago, louse1953 said:

Thais love it when i errrrrrrr.Where did you learn that they ask.Bloody hell,off you lot,every day.

mun, mun, mun.....

[Hutch68]

To the op, up to them ka!

[Damrongsak]

In English, it's assumed to be polite, unless it ends with "azzhole" or the like.

[cyberfarang]

On 07/04/2017 at 8:48 PM, Kwasaki said:

krub really 

I`ve always been led to believe. khrup or krup for Thai males.

 

It`s habit and difficult to change if that`s how a person has spoken all their life.  I`ve always been an err er and an erm person. When I begin a sentence I often start with an; err or an erm. An example; err do you have the time please? Or; erm, are you sure? Sometimes I use an err when I speak my limited Thai that confuses them.

 

Old habits die hard.

[kowpot]

On 4/7/2017 at 8:54 PM, grollies said:

“In Thai ‘krub’ and ‘ka’ are polite particles added to the end of a sentence. There is no equivalent version of them in English,” said Tirote Thongnuan, a language expert and lecturer at Kasetsart University’s Translation Department.......krub?

 

 

What happened to  "Sir" and "Ma'am" ?

[djayz]

13 hours ago, smotherb said:

Words such as, "like," "whatever," "shut-up," er, ah, uh" etc., ad finitum are used mainly because the people using them do not know the word they want to say. As explained; 'ka," "krub," or  even "krap" are polite particles--not same-same.

 

Excellent point! 

[Dagnabbit]

The short answer to the article is 'they don't'.

It is not the norm in English speaking Thais.

There is an older gen of wealthy Thais (in their 80's now) who speak wonderful English. They don't do this.

Middle aged and young Thais I've worked with very very rarely do it. If they do, it's usually as a little bit of emphasis when a favor has been done or is required.

It is very far from the norm. It just adds a bit of emphasis when they know that you know the meaning.

It's a bit more common if you are giving them a list of instructions, then male and female will often give a heart khrup between each instruction.



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[Kwasaki]

8 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

I`ve always been led to believe. khrup or krup for Thai males.

 

It`s habit and difficult to change if that`s how a person has spoken all their life.  I`ve always been an err er and an erm person. When I begin a sentence I often start with an; err or an erm. An example; err do you have the time please? Or; erm, are you sure? Sometimes I use an err when I speak my limited Thai that confuses them.

 

Old habits die hard.

Yes agree,  I was referring to  " krub "  never heard of that before got to be a spelling error but l stand to be corrected.

[janhkt]

On 8 April 2017 at 10:07 AM, wirat69 said:

KRUP, as in cup, is correct. Roll the "R" like a Scotsman to be perfectly correct. Just as Thai can't speak English correctly, same same, no difference, with Thai language where "R" can be pronounced "L" or omitted completely 

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I'm aware that many thais are omitting/changing the rolling R. I'm talking about the vowels.

 

Krup as in cup (and as in OR)
Krap as in car (and as in AR)

 

My ears tell me AR, not OR.

 

Edited April 17, 2017 by janhkt

[janhkt]

On 8 April 2017 at 1:35 PM, mesquite said:

And you are wrong.  http://www.thai-language.com/id/131341

 

How so? I don't see any U's, only A's.

[janhkt]

On 8 April 2017 at 7:05 PM, Grusa said:

Not that I am any kind of an expert, or even a mediocre speaker of Thai, I am surprised that no one has stated the glaringly obvious:

1. krap, however you chose to spell or phoneticise it, is a very impolite word in English, and causes huge mental hang-ups,

2. For that very reason many farang, myself included, choose to say "kap", which seems to be perfectly acceptable to the Thai, and I believe is regionally correct,

3. The use of Ka or Krap is frequently a marker for the .sexual orientation of the speaker.

 

I have no doubt those better informed will correct me.............

The word "crap" (flat A) is impolite, but certainly not "krap" (open A)?

 

Unless you insist on pronouncing "krap" with flat A, of course. 

[mesquite]

1 hour ago, janhkt said:

How so? I don't see any U's, only A's.

Yes. "a" is correct as it shows.

Edited April 18, 2017 by mesquite

[balo]

Who cares ?   

 

[Destiny1990]

When i order in mac donalds drive trough french fries with mayonaise they can not understand me then when i speak more like they do then more easy.

Sawadee  koh fren frai with majonet krap now my order gets noted.

[joeyg]

TV members never disappoint.  Amazing... 

[janhkt]

On 18 April 2017 at 1:45 PM, mesquite said:

Yes. "a" is correct as it shows.

And I'm promoting the "a" usage. Think you're misunderstanding.

[claffey]

Did you all just land here? Its a mis transliteration obviously...Happens all the time with the following sounds/ letters!

b/p     g/k      l/r      ch/j    v/w  .... eg... Thanon Chan is pronounced Thanon Jan. 

[timkeen08]

FritsSikkink is correct. ครับ Using transliteration and Thai grammar - the little sideways "e" over ร้ is the vowel "Sala a" pronounced like "at" without the (t) Crap. Although, many many Thai men pronounce it "cop" as in a policeman or crop (as what farmers plant) with only a slight sounding "R". As someone wrote here, Thais tend to leave R's out of many words or change the R to an L and change the L to an R. I have NEVER heard it as crup as in cup, it is usually crap as in toilet or cop as in police. With family and friends the ending ka or crap is not always used. Over the phone it is used quite a bit to let someone know they are finished with their sentence or what they are trying to say which is the purpose of ka or çrap in the 1st place. It is not just being polite. When reading Thai, look for the ka or crap to indicate the end of the sentence. The Thai word for "I or me" Phom (male) and Chan (female) can be used to start sentences. If you keep these type of things in prospective it makes those long Thai sentences easier to seperate and understand. I can understand and sound out the pronunciation of a Thai word much better if I can look at the word seeing the vowels and tone markers. But I don't give a crap what he says, a Thai man ends his sentences with crap or cop. Maybe he has trouble spelling English as well, is a typo sort of guy, or is tone deaf. But he wants to defend himself so I cannot help but to be sarcastic. And, it is actually a BP blended sound at the end of the word crabp. Using the Thai word "Na" as in "ha ha" before crabp or ka is adding politeness especially to your elders. Answering with crabp or ka while someone is talking can also be used to indicate yes, you understand, or you agree although there are specific Thai words for these as well. So you see - speaking or reading Thai is a very difficult subject with many exceptions, dialects, accents, and rules the same as English or any language. Thai is not the only language where the people incorrectly pronounce or slang words. Many thanks to my Temple back in Atlanta for holding Thai classes. It has helped me tremendously in trying to understand the difference between Thai, Isaan, and Lao because I listen to and have to speak all three up the road from Nong Khai. Sorry for the long winded response but sometimes I cannot help myself when I read ergrejous statements.

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[janhkt]

17 hours ago, timkeen08 said:

FritsSikkink is correct. ครับ Using transliteration and Thai grammar - the little sideways "e" over ร้ is the vowel "Sala a" pronounced like "at" without the (t) Crap. (...)

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No. Not as in "at". That would make it sound like the english word "crap" or "crab". It's an open A, not a flat one.

 

Edited April 20, 2017 by janhkt

[joeyg]

Most professional Thais answer their phones by saying Hello.   I think they should not do that.  I have to listen to this everyday.  It's not right.  Why do they do this?!

Edited April 22, 2017 by joeyg

[crazyk]

Theyr'e speaking your language but being polite in theirs,why not be an ignorant cxxt & learn thai,i used to work for an international compàny & everybody had to speak english(it was dutch)but the dicks i worked with from the uk laughed at the way they spoke english but where miffed when i said speak their language we're in their country,i like to know the basics of the language of the country i was working in or travelling to,i mainly worked in europe & the middle east with all nationalites but every spoke english but its nice to say hello in their language

[timkeen08]

No. Not as in "at". That would make it sound like the english word "crap" or "crab". It's an open A, not a flat one.
 

After getting clarification from my wife and also calling my Thai teacher in America for her explanation, I have what might be the best explanation. 1st, I was incorrect, the sideways (e) over the consonant (รั) is not the vowel (Sala a) but is a special vowel phoneme pronounced (mai hana kaaht) and that is where things can really get complicated because it can also be used as a diphthong. How the phoneme is used also depends on which consonants with which it is used so therefore, it can have different effects on different words. 2nd, my Thai teacher taught us the approved Royal Thai General System (or Royal Thai Language) that is still supposed to be taught in school but the children have already listened to and learned the wrong way of pronouncing words before they enter school so it's easier to move forward without forcing the students to change. The same as many teachers have not been taught the Royal Thai Language or refuse to use it as they will be corrected or made fun of by those that do use it incorrectly. After all, saving face is so important. The Royal Thai Language was developed as an attempt to standardize the Thai language for all the Thai people and as a standard for foreigners to be taught the Thai language. No slang, accents, dialects, or sloppy lazy mispronuncitions. Surprise, surprise, it looks like it failed. 3rd, the correct Royal Thai Language pronunciation is (crabp or crrrrrap), just as I said, as in (at) without the (t). The bp sound comes from the consonant (บ bpor bai mai or a leaf). The Usual mispronunciations are (crahp) with an open sounding (a as in ah) as you suggested or (cahp or a cop) same as (crahp) without pronouncing the rolling rrrr ( ร ). As my Thai teacher always said, "it is no good that many teachers in Thailand do not teach Royal Thai like I was taught but teach in their accent or the way they were taught". "Talk no accent, say same same as me" "no, accent no good" Doing things the way they were taught is more important to Thais than learning the correct way to do something or learning a different way of doing something as many of us that live in Thailand have found out. Not every thing is done 100% here unless you do it yourself or pay 200% and stay on top of it. 4th, although I do know the correct way, I have conformed with a simple cahp (cop) especially since I live in Isaan a stones throw from the Mekong and have to speak Thai, Isaan, and Laos.

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