Denied entry (TR) at Suvarnabhumi - no stamp - options?

[stoicccc]

I'm sure I'm the type of person who gets half the people blood boiling , but here goes:

 

-I've been in Thailand for 3-4 years 36-yrs old Finnish guy, first on ED-visa, then TRs and visa exempts mixed, mostly TRs from Laos with 2-3 visa exempts in between. For the first time I get the remark that "The holder of this passport travels to Thailand under a tourist visa several times which may result in the refusal of a visa in the future." I should note, that I haven't been questioned at the immigration before aside from the question "do you have a Thai girlfriend," which I do and nothing more was ever asked. Never been asked to show money. No overstays, everything done "by the book" if it applies here, as I have not even been warned about too many entries. I did realize it was frowned upon, but as no one ever mentioned anything, I kept on the track.

 

-I obtained TR visa from Vientiane yesterday and as I entered BKK, the immigration officer starts flipping through the pages, saying not good, taking me to his colleague. The colleague checks the passport, takes me to the couches, starts asking questions and doesn't believe anything I say (That I don't work here, using savings, staying here with my GF on Thai countryside.). I tell him I've never been questioned before, I thought that if I get a TR visa from Thai Embassy, I could enter the country as I have already shown a bank statement for example. (They say: "Embassy is embassy, immigration is immigration, not same rules"...also "if you have Thai GF and you love her, take her to your home country and stay there, you are not wanted here" from another elderly female officer. I just nodded for the advice.). Conclusion: "You cannot enter today". Random officers come by to give me an ear-beating, not even looking at my passport. Another problem was that I hadn't been to my home country for 17 months as my GF was battling cancer and I wanted to stay by her side, but they didnt believe that either.

 

-I didnt have 20k on me, I didn't have an outbound flight ticket, I stay with GF. Obviously this was a huge issue, all my bad. 

 

-I sign the papers and I'm escorted to the detention room by a young guy after 3 hours since I entered the immigration desk, I ask him can I enter again if I have the cash at hand and an outbound flight ticket. He says yes. I proceed to the detention room, I get to use laptop and phone there and book flights back to Vientiane for the following morning (which is today, the 13th), all good.  In the morning I realize the dude is Lao Airlines ground employee, not an immigration officer. Hard to tell the difference at night in the bunker. I fly to Vientiane, get my passport back from the Lao officials and I see that there is no stamp saying that I was denied entry. I explain the story to her (Lao immigration officer) thoroughly and she says "hmm I think you have to go home, get a new passport and new visa, come back again." She says she doubts they would let me in even with the cash and outbound flight.

 

So what is my next move (before I marry my GF ASAP, which will happen).

1) Should I try to re-enter Thailand with the cash and outbound ticket as I have a flight tonight and risk of being detained again and fly home tomorrow morning? (I rmember Ubonjoe mentioning that without the stamp it's not as official denial of entry, but I'm not sure how it plays out in this case). My plan even before this was to get a new passport from Finnish Embassy in Bangkok as I'm running out of pages.

2) Just fly home to get a new passport?

3) 3rd option I thought of was trying Nong Khai land crossing but if that backfires, then I'm for sure not getting in.  Plus I'm running out of pages in my passport.

 

Also, regarding 2) as I have a flight to BKK tonight with Lao Airlines, if I book a flight home tomorrow morning at 8-10am, can I spend the night at the airport transit or how would that work? Should be cool ifI would have the flight to Finland booked already, right?

 

Flight to BKK in 6 hours, need help. 

 

Thanks a lot.

 

[BritTim]

My advice, which risks little if unsuccessful, is to try to enter by crossing the Friendship Bridge to Nong Khai. If this does not work, you can then evaluate your options further.

[stoicccc]

The problem with that is that the Lao Immigration already said to me that if I get refused entry to Thailand again, I would have problems getting into Lao as well. (They cancelled the exit stamp and visa "USED" stamp from yesterday when I left, so I didnt have to get a new visa and entry stamp. I'm here in Laos on the stamp and visa from Monday)

 

Wouldnt be too fun to get somehow stuck at the Friendship bridge.

 

At first that was a tempting option before I heard to Lao immigration comments. 

[thedemon]

Can you purchase a date flexible ticket on Finnair with a reservation to Helsinki for tomorrow morning's flight?

 

Then you can attempt to enter at Suvarnabhumi tonight. If denied you just stay in transit. Overnight is a normal and acceptable transit time so you can stay airside and have your boarding pass issued at the Oneworld transfer desk. Obviously you should only have handcarry, no checked in luggage.

 

If things go ok and they let you in, immediately change your flight reservation for a later date.

[stoicccc]

I decided to book the Finnair flight to Helsinki tomorrow morning and roll with it. Stay back home for a while, get a fresh passport, new TR visa and come to Thailand again and get married finally, should have done a while ago already. Hopefully that'll work out. 

[AlexDorneles]

I also got taken to the couches.

I would try what was suggested above. Come back with a booked ticket to go out for the same day and if they let you enter just change for a later date.

[gilo]

I think BritTim is giving good advice. Immigration at Nong Khai is a lot easier if you have a valid visa. Then can get a taxi to Udon Thani and fly from there back to Bangkok. I used a taxi that took me from my hotel in Vientiane (via the consulate to pick up passport and visa) and he then drove me directly to the airport. There is a different booth for immigration for those travelling by private car. No long queues and very easy. Perhaps the presumption that one has sufficient resources?? The taxi fee of 2k was well worth it. My luggage went into the car at the hotel and I did not have to mess around with it again until I arrived at the airport. If you want his number PM me and I will give you his details.  

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, stoicccc said:

I decided to book the Finnair flight to Helsinki tomorrow morning and roll with it. Stay back home for a while, get a fresh passport, new TR visa and come to Thailand again and get married finally, should have done a while ago already. Hopefully that'll work out. 

Be sure and have the 20K Baht in cash, this time.  That is a legal requirement. An outbound ticket is not a legal requirement - though I can understand why it might be a good idea to have, in your case.  The only other possibly useful thing to have is proof of finances coming from abroad, to prove you have no need to work in Thailand for your money (as if that would be even remotely appealing, given the low-pay offered here).

If let in - and you should be if you have 20K Baht in cash - you can then get a new passport from your embassy here within the 60 days of your TV entry.

[Ape1983]

Makes your blood boil, regardless of your girlfriends issues you are a tourist. You are coming to Thailand to visit not to work. Where is the issue? You can be in a tourist 12 months a year if you have the funds to support yourself where is the problem.

[thaitero]

5 minutes ago, Ape1983 said:

Makes your blood boil, regardless of your girlfriends issues you are a tourist. You are coming to Thailand to visit not to work. Where is the issue? You can be in a tourist 12 months a year if you have the funds to support yourself where is the problem.

20 k was missing  that time.

[JackThompson]

5 minutes ago, Ape1983 said:

Makes your blood boil, regardless of your girlfriends issues you are a tourist. You are coming to Thailand to visit not to work. Where is the issue? You can be in a tourist 12 months a year if you have the funds to support yourself where is the problem.

Yes, and with that smooth-move by the Airport-IO, several Thais lost their jobs, because the foreign-sourced income being spent into the economy by the OP, which supported those Thais, as been lost or suspended.   If they really thought he was broke, they could have let him go to an ATM - but it's not about him really having funds or not - its about "Gotcha" on a technicality.

 

2 minutes ago, thaitero said:

20 k was missing  that time.

Yes, any longer-term Tourist-Visa stayers wishing to press their luck entering at airports should be prepared with that as a minimum.

[Ape1983]

I'm just back from Penang, getting a 60 day visa. No issues getting it but they did ask for ticket leaving thailand at the consulate doesn't have to be to your home country.  I re-entered no issues my only advice at airport immingration is que where male officers are working. Best of luck 

[stoicccc]

Interesting how Lao Immigration and Lao airlines were involved....so the lady at the Lao Immigration this morning, she got my passport from the captain and we went to the back room for a chat. She was persuasive that I shouldn't try to re-enter Thailand, even with cash and outbound ticket. I kinda didn't think much of it, but then when I few hours ago arrived at the airport and went to check-in, the people at the counter were clearly alerted about my situation (I told to lady in the morning that I have a flight back the same day). I didn't immediately give her the connecting boarding pass for Helsinki from BKK, she kept eyeballing my passport, looking at the colleague and at the paper in my hand. I waited like 5 sec, smiled and said "don't worry, I have a connecting flight. I'm going home to Finland." She then smiled, picked up my boarding pass, asked colleague something and checked  me in, noting that I can't go to Thailand, I have to wait at the airport. 

 

Then, just a few moments ago when I arrived, the same dude who escorted me from detention room to the gate this morning for the Vientiane flight, stop me in the tunnel and said "Sir, you have connecting flight, right? You can't go through the immigration".  I just "yea yea I know, gonna go home". I noticed he followed me then for a bit but stopped when I noticed that he followed me.

 

So I'm not really sure <deleted> is up with that.

 

And now that I think of it, the lady at the check-in counter in Vientiane, prior to the denial of my entry, was already asking if I work in Thailand.

Edited April 13, 2017 by stoicccc

[JackThompson]

11 hours ago, stoicccc said:

Interesting how Lao Immigration and Lao airlines were involved....so the lady at the Lao Immigration this morning, she got my passport from the captain and we went to the back room for a chat. She was persuasive that I shouldn't try to re-enter Thailand, even with cash and outbound ticket. I kinda didn't think much of it, but then when I few hours ago arrived at the airport and went to check-in, the people at the counter were clearly alerted about my situation (I told to lady in the morning that I have a flight back the same day). I didn't immediately give her the connecting boarding pass for Helsinki from BKK, she kept eyeballing my passport, looking at the colleague and at the paper in my hand. I waited like 5 sec, smiled and said "don't worry, I have a connecting flight. I'm going home to Finland." She then smiled, picked up my boarding pass, asked colleague something and checked  me in, noting that I can't go to Thailand, I have to wait at the airport. 

 

Then, just a few moments ago when I arrived, the same dude who escorted me from detention room to the gate this morning for the Vientiane flight, stop me in the tunnel and said "Sir, you have connecting flight, right? You can't go through the immigration".  I just "yea yea I know, gonna go home". I noticed he followed me then for a bit but stopped when I noticed that he followed me.

 

So I'm not really sure <deleted> is up with that.

 

And now that I think of it, the lady at the check-in counter in Vientiane, prior to the denial of my entry, was already asking if I work in Thailand.

I definitely would not use airports to enter Thailand if you have been here for considerable time on a Tourist Visa.  Airports used to be considered the least-likely place to be denied entry, but this does not appear to be the case now. 
Friendship Bridge is one of the friendliest checkpoints, and if denied there (highly unlikely), you could just move on to a different entry-point, so the same personnel are not involved.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

"if you have Thai GF and you love her, take her to your home country and stay there, you are not wanted here" from another elderly female officer

 

 

This immigration lady should be reported to the TAT, the immigration department of Thailand are scaring tourists away from Thailand now.

[thedemon]

34 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I definitely would not use airports to enter Thailand if you have been here for considerable time on a Tourist Visa.  Airports used to be considered the least-likely place to be denied entry, but this does not appear to be the case now. 
Friendship Bridge is one of the friendliest checkpoints, and if denied there (highly unlikely), you could just move on to a different entry-point, so the same personnel are not involved.

 

As op explained in post 3, Lao Immigration informed him that if he was denied entry to Thailand at a land border he may have problems re-entering Laos.

[geriatrickid]

13 hours ago, Ape1983 said:

Makes your blood boil, regardless of your girlfriends issues you are a tourist. You are coming to Thailand to visit not to work. Where is the issue? You can be in a tourist 12 months a year if you have the funds to support yourself where is the problem.

The issue is that he did not meet the legal requirements to enter and to remain in Thailand.

For every person who tries to get by, there are  4 others who follow the rules and do not have any issues. 

 

13 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Yes, and with that smooth-move by the Airport-IO, several Thais lost their jobs, because the foreign-sourced income being spent into the economy by the OP, which supported those Thais, as been lost or suspended.   If they really thought he was broke, they could have let him go to an ATM - but it's not about him really having funds or not - its about "Gotcha" on a technicality.

 

Yes, any longer-term Tourist-Visa stayers wishing to press their luck entering at airports should be prepared with that as a minimum.

 

If you believe that some low spending foreign resident has "cost Thais their jobs" you are  suffering from delusions of grandeur.  How many time does this have to be explained?  The amount of money spent by low income, low net worth residents adds little to the economy.. Do the math. They are in a fact a cost because they use electricity, water, leave a carbon footprint and are not productive. Thailand's  economy benefits from foreigners who are well off or who are who have manufacturing facilities. The reality is that the value comes from  less than half of the foreign residents. The  Pattaya  retirees who live hand to mouth  bring no value. The  IT workers who pay no  income tax, and who do not create jobs   are of no value.

 

 

tourist economy profits are derived  from less that 

[Thaidream]

Technically he may not have had the monies on him to enter but he certainly had access to it and IMHO Imigration was being hard on the man. They could have offered to let him use the ATM to withdraw the funds- instead, the one officer insulted the tourist and that is really beyond the scope of their authority.  Thailand will eventually learn that these type of incidents can go viral and can have an affect on people who do have a great deal of money to invest or open large manufacturing plants. Being an American and going through US Immigration many times- I can attest it is the same type of attitude. Rudeness is everywhere these days,

[NoshowJones]

and still some deluded people think we are guests here in Thailand. 

[moe666]

14 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Technically he may not have had the monies on him to enter but he certainly had access to it and IMHO Imigration was being hard on the man. They could have offered to let him use the ATM to withdraw the funds- instead, the one officer insulted the tourist and that is really beyond the scope of their authority.  Thailand will eventually learn that these type of incidents can go viral and can have an affect on people who do have a great deal of money to invest or open large manufacturing plants. Being an American and going through US Immigration many times- I can attest it is the same type of attitude. Rudeness is everywhere these days,

He has been living in Thailand for 3 years he is not a tourist

[NoshowJones]

15 hours ago, Ape1983 said:

Makes your blood boil, regardless of your girlfriends issues you are a tourist. You are coming to Thailand to visit not to work. Where is the issue? You can be in a tourist 12 months a year if you have the funds to support yourself where is the problem.

If you don't get the OPs problem. maybe you should read it again.

[thedemon]

7 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

and still some deluded people think we are guests here in Thailand. 

 

A non-immigrant with temporary permission to stay, yes.

 

But a "guest"? Who says that?

[NoshowJones]

6 minutes ago, thedemon said:

 

A non-immigrant with temporary permission to stay, yes.

 

But a "guest"? Who says that?

It crops up all the time here on Thai visa, I'm surprised with the amount of posts you have that you have never noticed it.

The "we are guests in this country" brigade have many members.

[ujayujay]

Note: Allways have 20.000 THB on you and a pro forma Hotel Booking( can do this by booking.com, Agoda etc.) Print out the Voucher. Right after Booking you cancel this Booking. I never had any Issues ,when i've done this. 

[thecyclist]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

I definitely would not use airports to enter Thailand if you have been here for considerable time on a Tourist Visa.  Airports used to be considered the least-likely place to be denied entry, but this does not appear to be the case now. 
Friendship Bridge is one of the friendliest checkpoints, and if denied there (highly unlikely), you could just move on to a different entry-point, so the same personnel are not involved.

Sound advice, I also prefer land borders. But this time ,after biking through Laos and getting a TV in Vientiane, I escaped the Songkran war zone by cycling to Vietnam.to do the landborder I would have to reenter the war zone.Instead I booked a flight from Hanoi to Don Muang .I guess sometimes it's better to risk detention rather than be inconvenienced by long overland travel.

[Khun Robert]

So you think a new passport will solve all the problems.

It used to do the trick years ago, now even in Thailand, country

in development, they using the same thing as you: a Computer.

Your new passport could be linked with your old one, like the Netherlands

Government does to make it easy for Immigration Officers worldwide.

But when Immigration use the scan your name, birthday and

nationality will give a match with an old passport and all your entries in Thailand.

 

[JayBird]

Your blood can boil for them being impolite and accusing you wrongly. As well as having inconsistent rules. However you definitely are not on the right visa given the spirit of the intent of a tourist visa.

 

You also have the choice of Thailand Elite which may be cheaper in the long run than getting married.

 

you can try to deal with your Embassy in Laos or elsewhere while you apply for Thailand Elite which should only take two weeks.

 

 

[HerbalEd]

16 hours ago, Ape1983 said:

Makes your blood boil, regardless of your girlfriends issues you are a tourist. You are coming to Thailand to visit not to work. Where is the issue? You can be in a tourist 12 months a year if you have the funds to support yourself where is the problem.

I agree with you, but ..... Realize that immigration officers, and the police, are constantly lied to ... they've heard it all. So much so that they too often don't believe anything we say, or at best are very doubtful. . 

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, thedemon said:

As op explained in post 3, Lao Immigration informed him that if he was denied entry to Thailand at a land border he may have problems re-entering Laos.

That would almost certainly be resolved with a "fee" of far less than return-airfare to Europe - but if concerned - go to Cambodia first, then enter through one of the many friendly border points - Ban Laem, for instance.

 

1 hour ago, moe666 said:

He has been living in Thailand for 3 years he is not a tourist

The length of time here does not determine his activity here - which is the basis for his visa.  There is no limit on how long a person can reside in Thailand per-year on Tourist Visas.  If this is changed by statute or police-order, I am sure we will hear about it here.  Until that time, he is indeed a tourist, provided he does not work Illegally, break other laws, etc.
 

2 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

The issue is that he did not meet the legal requirements to enter and to remain in Thailand.

For every person who tries to get by, there are  4 others who follow the rules and do not have any issues. 

And most who enter never have to show 20K Baht - but it appears they planned to block his second entry - to spite his having the funds - just based on the fact they stopped him on this technicality once before.

 

2 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

If you believe that some low spending foreign resident has "cost Thais their jobs" you are  suffering from delusions of grandeur.  How many time does this have to be explained?  The amount of money spent by low income, low net worth residents adds little to the economy.. Do the math.

I did the math.  What is the Thai min-salary?  Divide by the amount of money the OP brought in in foreign currency every month.   Not sure how you seem to know how much the OP spends, but I would bet several Thai-salaries worth per-month. 

 

Granted, much potential capital which would be spent in Thailand is wasted on visa-runs; One visa-run can easily equal a Thai's salary.  Vietnam, Cambodia, and The Philippines have a much better system for ensuring a higher % of foreigners' money is spent in their country. 

 

2 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

They are in a fact a cost because they use electricity, water, leave a carbon footprint and are not productive. Thailand's  economy benefits from foreigners who are well off or who are who have manufacturing facilities. The reality is that the value comes from  less than half of the foreign residents. The  Pattaya  retirees who live hand to mouth  bring no value. The  IT workers who pay no  income tax, and who do not create jobs   are of no value.

 

tourist economy profits are derived  from less that 

Tourists pay for electricity, water, and spend money directly into the Thai economy from foreign sourced funds.  They cost Thailand nothing and benefit it greatly.  The Pattaya residents who "live hand to mouth" and the IT workers who spend far more -  each pay the salary of several Thai employees with foreign capital, who provide goods and services which the foreigners consume, including VAT-tax on every purchase, and, yes, including water, electricity, etc - all of which are sold at a profit above and beyond the costs of production (which includes those Thai salaries) and those profits re-invested in Thailand.  These people cost the govt/state Absolutely Nothing - since they receive No Free Social Services - it is 100% Upside to Thailand for every single one.

 

As others have pointed out, most tourists to Thailand are not rich, and spend far less than Westerners.  These people are offered "free visas" right now because $30 is a significant factor in whether they come here - go to a 7/11 in Pattaya at night, and see them shop for dinner, there, while us Western folks patronize Thai restaurants.  Also note those coming in from neighboring countries on border-passes, etc, who could never show 20K Baht - but due to their numbers, the small amount they spend "adds up."

 

Granted, it would be much better if a sane-visa system was set up for under-50 IT workers, and others with Offshore Incomes who do not engage in day-to-day 'work', as they are the largest growing work-sector on the planet, and increasingly not tied to a physical location.  This would include the requirement that they pay taxes here in Thailand (instead of their home country).  That would benefit Thailand greatly, and encourage even more "free money" to flow into Thailand.

 

The only exception would be a tourist with no health insurance who gets in an accident, is taken to a state hospital, and stays in ICU for a while before being repatriated without paying his bill.  This could be solved by requiring all persons to buy health-insurance from the state-system upon entry, which would be inexpensive to the foreigners, and profitable to Thailand.

 

The "carbon footprint" is not a "cost" - it is a made-up system for creating a global taxation system - originally called a "Heat Tax" in the 1970s when first conceived, before its proponents (Rockefeller, Ford, Carnegie Foundations + UN)  made up the "man-made global warming" idea to make it "guilt-based" - a modern form of the old "original sin" psychological trick .. but I digress - irrelevant to the cost/benefit analysis of Tourists to Thailand.

[Dan5]

"In the morning I realize the dude is Lao Airlines ground employee, not an immigration officer. " Are you saying you were not detained by immigration, but an airline employee?? It seems that the answer to that question would mean a lot in determining your next move.