United passenger dragged from plane has concussion, broken nose -lawyer

[neverere]

4 hours ago, irwinfc said:

i only hope the truth gets out too much inconsistencies and speculations related to this incident.

Indeed. The truth is out there, but it has been largely ignored by the media, as it's lack of sensationalism doesn't make for the outrage and attention this story has managed to create. 

[andersonat]

5 minutes ago, reenatinnakor said:

The land of the free is also the land of silly law suits... But in this instance, I hope Dr Dao and his lawyers take United to the cleaners and onto bankruptcy. I won't begrudge them a single cent no matter how much they exaggerate.

It wouldn't surprise me if the law enforcement officer thought the Vietnam war was still going on and thus did his part for America... fxxx yeah! 

 

R - 

 

Many people have made comments re. the Passenger suing United Airlines, but the violence was dished out by an Employee of O'Hare Airport Security (while 2 [?] of his colleagues looked on).  Why am I not reading outraged commentators writing that it is/was the Airport Security Officer that was at fault, and that it is the Airport Security Dept. that should be sued ?

 

 

[neverere]

1 hour ago, cruisemonkey said:

... needs a 'smart keyboard'.... that won't let you type unless it senses the user has an IQ above 50.  

TV would be pretty boring if there were only one or two contributors.

[newnative]

5 minutes ago, andersonat said:

 

R - 

 

Many people have made comments re. the Passenger suing United Airlines, but the violence was dished out by an Employee of O'Hare Airport Security (while 2 [?] of his colleagues looked on).  Why am I not reading outraged commentators writing that it is/was the Airport Security Officer that was at fault, and that it is the Airport Security Dept. that should be sued ?

 

 

Rest easy--I'm sure the airport and airport security will be named along with United in any lawsuits.  United is rightly taking the majority of the blame.  At the start, United made the very poor decision to board the plane without having the seating sorted out.  Boarding should not have taken place until the 4 employees were either found seats by voluntarily bumping with generous compensation or they were denied seats as none were available.   No paying customer should have  been involuntarily bumped to accommodate an employee.  Once boarded, United made the very poor decision to involuntarily remove a passenger who had already been accepted for the flight,  boarded, and seated.  This seems to be against United's own carriage policy.  Some lawyers have come forward and stated that it is illegal to involuntarily remove a boarded and seated passenger who has not broken any airline rules.  Refuse to turn off your cell phone? You can be legally booted.  Sitting in your paid for seat, behaving yourself, and not breaking any rules?  You can't be removed without cause.  Makes sense to me.  Continuing.  United made the very poor decision to put an airline employee above a paying customer. Our employee is more important than you.  Not good.  United made the very poor decision to be very stingy in what it offered for passengers to voluntarily give up their seats.  When not enough passengers accepted their stingy offer, United made the very poor decision to call in the security police instead of handling the situation with its own staff.  Once the passenger was forcibly removed and injured, United made the very poor decision to not offer a profuse, immediate, sincere apology to the passenger.  Instead, United's tone-deaf CEO in his initial statement made the very bad decision to make no apology or mention of the passenger's name, make it seem like a chore to have to 're-accommodate' the passengers--while also making the very bad decision to devote the majority of his message to praising the United employees.  Probably one of the worst apologies I've ever seen--compounded by the very bad decision to wait, I think, another day before finally, finally coming up with an actual apology that was still rather inadequate in my opinion.  Lots of bad decisions.  At least it can serve as a textbook case on what not to do.

[Sydebolle]

Guess the board room will be emptied anytime soon and they'll look for a new CEO. 

All others, keep a close eye on the stock market - some serious money can be made here ;-) 

[robhufton]

Kerching 

[dabhand]

http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/13/news/companies/united-airlines-passenger-vouchers/

A United (UAL) email provided to CNN by a passenger on the flight says customers are eligible for vouchers toward future flights if they "release" the airline from lawsuits. The email offered a voucher worth $500.

 

Well, can't see the other passengers queuing up to take up this offer. I'm sure that a class action law suit pays more.

 

Just heard on CNN that UA have admitted that this offer should not have been conditional. Do they have any feet left that they can shoot?

Edited April 14, 2017 by dabhand

[elgordo38]

Funny how a can of worms can be opened and the guy operating the can opener has no clue about what is about to happen. A financial Black Swan. The door is now open against United and the previously aggrieved will come rushing through. Its after all their 15 minutes of fame and if something grievous has been done rightly so. There is a story out there of a 94 year old woman mistreated and I am sure there will be more. Similar to the Wells Fargo moment. I hope nobody has United in their retirement fund but like Wells Fargo these stories have a short shelf life. 

[elgordo38]

2 hours ago, thaihome said:

Those are the amounts required for involuntary change, the Airline can offer anything it wants to induce voluntary change. The gate agent decided to go the involuntary route prior to even getting to the required amount when trying to get people to volunteer.  

 

This is a sure symptom of a corporate culture that has no regard for paying customer satisfaction and only interested in getting their job done as easily as possible.  As I read on an aviation forum, the employees would be most happy just flying with empty airplanes.

TH 

I had employer loyalty all my working years. Now well I doubt if I could do it again as I look at how my employer has taken my previously enjoyable job and made it into an endurance test. 

[Netease]

 

10 hours ago, webfact said:

Dao's wife was told to leave the plane after he was dragged off, Golan said.

Don't forget that his wife was with him on the plane, I would assume he was concerned about leaving his on the plane alone, was she offered compensation to leave the plane at the same time her husband was

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Fair play to the fella if he sues and I hope he gets a very nice settlement.

He can also sue for punitive damages that is intended to change future corporate behavior. Sky is the limit with a jury. Practically, it could be in the tens of millions of dollars. In the end for what it will ultimately cost United, it would have been cheaper in hindsight for United to have chartered a plane for the four rotating crew people.

[Basil B]

7 hours ago, SABloke said:

 

By "anyone" do you mean the 3 other passengers who were also chosen to give up their seats? I wonder why we aren't reading any news stories about their forceful removals...oh right...they acted like adults

 

They probably just walked off quietly after seeing what happend to the Doc...

[carbine1125]

10 hours ago, Rob13 said:

 

in coupons

 

No one on a plane and already seat should be forced.to give up a seat.  Let the ones sit ring in the terminal wait.for the next flight. Soul plane springs to mong lol

[sambum]

6 hours ago, Thaidream said:

The tens of millions of dollars United will lose in settlement; lost business and reputation not to mention injury to a paying passenger should be an example to all business' how not to do business.

The offer of compensation was in credits for travel not hard cash. I would not have moved either until I was offered cash money on the spot. What good are travel credits if I hardly ever travel.  The CEO should be fired for allowing this type of atmosphere to exist amongst his staff.

There was another report of a United Customer who paid for a first class ticket from Hawaii to the US mainland and was also informed he had to leave due to an overbooking problem. He was threatened to have handcuffs placed on him. Absolutely the worst type of business practice one can imagine.

Any type of denied boarding should be settled prior to anyone getting on a plane and the process should always involve cash compensation not vouchers for travel.  The airlines in general are  similar to the banking industry- poor customer service and a greedy attitude. Someone will eventually run an airline based pon excellent customer service and stop forcing people to travel as sardines in a can for the sake of excessive profits and they will get huge market share.  In addition, when the price of oil goes up- airlines are quick to raise prices but when the price goes down they hardly ever lower prices. Greed is good is a very poor business standard to go by- but it sure exists in many companies.

"when the price of oil goes up- airlines are quick to raise prices but when the price goes down they hardly ever lower prices."

 

To quote a comparison - in the UK, every summer, when they have to start using "new potatoes", the fish and chip shops increase their prices.However, when the new potatoes are replaced by the less expensive "old potatoes" the prices never come down again.

 

However, one has to take into account such things as inflation, increased wage costs, maintenance and if necessary replacement of outdated equipment etc, so it's not as clear cut as it first appears to be. The unfortunate thing is that the price of oil going up is a convenient excuse for EVERYTHING going up in price!

[The Dark Lord]

5 hours ago, sambum said:

"when the price of oil goes up- airlines are quick to raise prices but when the price goes down they hardly ever lower prices."

 

To quote a comparison - in the UK, every summer, when they have to start using "new potatoes", the fish and chip shops increase their prices.However, when the new potatoes are replaced by the less expensive "old potatoes" the prices never come down again.

 

However, one has to take into account such things as inflation, increased wage costs, maintenance and if necessary replacement of outdated equipment etc, so it's not as clear cut as it first appears to be. The unfortunate thing is that the price of oil going up is a convenient excuse for EVERYTHING going up in price!

That or Brexit or Trump ( at least amongst the feeble)

[thaihome]

7 hours ago, Netease said:

 

Don't forget that his wife was with him on the plane, I would assume he was concerned about leaving his on the plane alone, was she offered compensation to leave the plane at the same time her husband was

It appears from the videos that as he was sitting in the window seat  and when he was jerked out of his seat it was across her sitting in the aisle seat.  In the videos of the doctor being dragged through the airplane you can see the wife following behind. Hopefully she will file her own lawsuit.

 

From statements from other passengers,  it seems they were both "randomly" selected for involuntary removal.  Having nothing to do, of course, with being an elderly Asian couple, that based on stereotypical behavior, would ever dream of questioning their selection. ?

 

It seems that the CVR recordings, contains discussions over the  cockpit to cabin crew intercom,  will not be available due to 2 hours limit of recording and the fact the plane flew several sectors after this incident. This is too bad has I'm fairly sure there would be some assurances given to the captain that the gate agent and cabin crew have have this under control and have selected people that will be no problem in removing from the plane dispite public statements the selection was "computer generated ".

 

Again, my main hope in this whole incident is that the abuse Dr. Dao, his wife, and the other passengers on this flight were subjected to brings to light the the  same type of abuse that paying customers have been subjected to by virtually all transportation industry employees, sanctioned by both corporate culture and government demogugary about perceived terrorist threats, under the guise of safety and security since 9/11.

 

Corporations have made huuuuge profits and small minded bullies ranging from rental cops at the curb of airports, TSA agents at security checks, gate agents,  and worst of all cabin crew that use any excuse to portray a simple question of senseless policy as a security threat,  have had a field day for some 15 years now at the expense of the paying public. 

 

It is ironic that during the hijackings of the 60's and 70's, much worse then anything that has happened on an airplane since 9/11, the Airline industry managed to maintain a level of service and courtesy that made made flying a somewhat pleasant experience,  but now, both at a corporate and personal level. they go out of their way to make it as unpleasant as possible using safety and security as an excuse. 

 

TH 

Edited April 14, 2017 by thaihome

[JHolmesJr]

Dao has become the rosa parks of aviation…..wonder if bob dylan will do a song on him.

[wprime]

13 hours ago, Thaidream said:

The tens of millions of dollars United will lose in settlement; lost business and reputation not to mention injury to a paying passenger should be an example to all business' how not to do business.

The offer of compensation was in credits for travel not hard cash. I would not have moved either until I was offered cash money on the spot. What good are travel credits if I hardly ever travel.  The CEO should be fired for allowing this type of atmosphere to exist amongst his staff.

There was another report of a United Customer who paid for a first class ticket from Hawaii to the US mainland and was also informed he had to leave due to an overbooking problem. He was threatened to have handcuffs placed on him. Absolutely the worst type of business practice one can imagine.

Any type of denied boarding should be settled prior to anyone getting on a plane and the process should always involve cash compensation not vouchers for travel.  The airlines in general are  similar to the banking industry- poor customer service and a greedy attitude. Someone will eventually run an airline based pon excellent customer service and stop forcing people to travel as sardines in a can for the sake of excessive profits and they will get huge market share.  In addition, when the price of oil goes up- airlines are quick to raise prices but when the price goes down they hardly ever lower prices. Greed is good is a very poor business standard to go by- but it sure exists in many companies.

 

People don't want good service, they want cheap airfares, so that's what they get.

 

United made a huge mistake doing this and they obviously realise this but I fail to see how his case against United has any merit - they made some bad decisions but they didn't do anything illegal. He's probably just hoping they settle it to keep it out of the media.

 

He has a legitimate case against the police however - they clearly used excessive force.

[Trouble]

20 hours ago, steve187 said:

could have been any passenger, you, me anyone. a bad situation, badly handled, money, upgrades would have found volunteers.

The difference is that you and I would have stood up and left the plane peacefully. Was it handled properly? No.  Is the guy an idiot who would not follow instructions? Yes.  Did he cause the problem which got him injured? Yes. He basically caused the injuries he suffered fighting off the guy trying to remove him from his seat. Wish I could get on the jury in this case. The guy wouldn't get a dime. Did United cause the problem? No. They called for an Airport Security Officer who got over zealous.  Why is everyone after United?  Read the contract when you purchase a ticket. It clearly states a person can be asked to leave an aircraft.  Actually had this taken a different course and the Security Guard done his job properly, the guy should have just been arrested. This is really not all that newsworthy except that social media has everyone believing it an issue.

[Rhys]

49 minutes ago, Trouble said:

The difference is that you and I would have stood up and left the plane peacefully. Was it handled properly? No.  Is the guy an idiot who would not follow instructions? Yes.  Did he cause the problem which got him injured? Yes. He basically caused the injuries he suffered fighting off the guy trying to remove him from his s seat. Wish I could get on the jury in this case. The guy wouldn't get a dime. Did United cause the problem? No. They called for an Airport Security Officer who got over zealous.  Why is everyone after United?  Read the contract when you purchase a ticket. It clearly states a person can be asked to leave an aircraft.  Actually had this taken a different course and the Security Guard done his job properly, the guy should have just been arrested. This is really not all that newsworthy except that social media has everyone believing it an issue.

 

   The police come on the plane, ask you to leave, warn you...md or not...   you need to comply.  This guy made a spectacle of himself, clearly planning out a PR payout.... Like this impaired MD has not cancelled appointment before.

 

Of course, he should not have been injured, but he brought it on himself, clearly  indicating his preferred method of deplaning.

[newnative]

2 hours ago, Trouble said:

The difference is that you and I would have stood up and left the plane peacefully. Was it handled properly? No.  Is the guy an idiot who would not follow instructions? Yes.  Did he cause the problem which got him injured? Yes. He basically caused the injuries he suffered fighting off the guy trying to remove him from his seat. Wish I could get on the jury in this case. The guy wouldn't get a dime. Did United cause the problem? No. They called for an Airport Security Officer who got over zealous.  Why is everyone after United?  Read the contract when you purchase a ticket. It clearly states a person can be asked to leave an aircraft.  Actually had this taken a different course and the Security Guard done his job properly, the guy should have just been arrested. This is really not all that newsworthy except that social media has everyone believing it an issue.

I think if you read United's Contract of Carriage you will find that they violated Rule 21 and 25.  One of them outlines the rules and procedures for bumping passengers before boarding the plane.  All the rules and procedures are for before boarding--which is the important take away. There are no written rules that allow for bumping once boarding has taken place.  There are also some legal gray areas with regard to the bumping as the 4 people seeking seats were not actual paying passengers but United employees.  The other rule, the refusal of carriage, is the more important one, in my opinion.  This rule has a long list of things that allow United to legally remove a passenger  from a plane.  Things like being drunk, being too fat to fit into a seat, medical problems, and so on.  Nowhere on the list is 'refusal to involuntarily give up one's seat' or words to that effect.  United could not legally call the cops to remove the passenger because, legally, he had not violated any of the two dozen or more things on the list.  It's true he became unruly but that was only after being provoked by the actions of United, which broke its own rules.  I totally agree that the passenger should have obeyed the police but this whole incident was brought on by the very poor actions and decisions of United.  One may not like the passenger, or his behavior after being ejected, but that has no bearing on the legality of his ejection in the first place.  If nothing else, this incident has brought the practice of bumping into the spotlight. Prior to this, I had no idea that an airline could involuntarily bump you for another passenger. I always thought it was purely voluntary by use of compensation--hopefully Federal rules will be changed to make it so. 

[bandito]

Well, I was at one time overbooked by China Airlines and allready in the plane where someone was sitting in the to me allocated seat.

I told the crew I would not leave and after some time I got a free upgrade to business class.

Nobody of the crew was threatening me to forcefully remove me off the plane.

Amsterdam-Bangkok.

 

[Rhys]

...just have the security officer wai, the president say sorry and all is well, like here...

 

[thaihome]

4 hours ago, Trouble said:

The difference is that you and I would have stood up and left the plane peacefully. Was it handled properly? No.  Is the guy an idiot who would not follow instructions? Yes.  Did he cause the problem which got him injured? Yes. He basically caused the injuries he suffered fighting off the guy trying to remove him from his seat. Wish I could get on the jury in this case. The guy wouldn't get a dime. Did United cause the problem? No. They called for an Airport Security Officer who got over zealous.  Why is everyone after United?  Read the contract when you purchase a ticket. It clearly states a person can be asked to leave an aircraft.  Actually had this taken a different course and the Security Guard done his job properly, the guy should have just been arrested. This is really not all that newsworthy except that social media has everyone believing it an issue.

I'm not sure if would have gotten up and left. After traveling all day from LA, just wanting to get home, already sitting on the airplane,  and then being told it would be a 24 hour delay to get another flight, I may have just refused to get up out of my seat just to see what they would do to make me. I can imagine making it just has inconvenient for them  as I could in retaliation for trying to take away my seat. I'm just sitting here,  not violating any regulation or law, as Dr Dao said,  "go ahead and take me to jail, I'm not getting up".

 

 

TH

[just.a.thought]

I think if you read United's Contract of Carriage you will find that they violated Rule 21 and 25.  One of them outlines the rules and procedures for bumping passengers before boarding the plane.  All the rules and procedures are for before boarding--which is the important take away. There are no written rules that allow for bumping once boarding has taken place.  There are also some legal gray areas with regard to the bumping as the 4 people seeking seats were not actual paying passengers but United employees.  The other rule, the refusal of carriage, is the more important one, in my opinion.  This rule has a long list of things that allow United to legally remove a passenger  from a plane.  Things like being drunk, being too fat to fit into a seat, medical problems, and so on.  Nowhere on the list is 'refusal to involuntarily give up one's seat' or words to that effect.  United could not legally call the cops to remove the passenger because, legally, he had not violated any of the two dozen or more things on the list.  It's true he became unruly but that was only after being provoked by the actions of United, which broke its own rules.  I totally agree that the passenger should have obeyed the police but this whole incident was brought on by the very poor actions and decisions of United.  One may not like the passenger, or his behavior after being ejected, but that has no bearing on the legality of his ejection in the first place.  If nothing else, this incident has brought the practice of bumping into the spotlight. Prior to this, I had no idea that an airline could involuntarily bump you for another passenger. I always thought it was purely voluntary by use of compensation--hopefully Federal rules will be changed to make it so. 

Why should the passenger obey the pigs, he did nothing wrong in defending his right to be on that plane.......


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[newnative]

22 minutes ago, thaihome said:

I'm not sure if would have gotten up and left. After traveling all day from LA, just wanting to get home, already sitting on the airplane,  and then being told it would be a 24 hour delay to get another flight, I may have just refused to get up out of my seat just to see what they would do to make me. I can imagine making it just has inconvenient for them  as I could in retaliation for trying to take away my seat. I'm just sitting here,  not violating any regulation or law, as Dr Dao said,  "go ahead and take me to jail, I'm not getting up".

 

 

TH

It's interesting to note that the airport security for the New York airports has publically stated that it will not board a plane and remove a passenger for not involuntarily giving up his seat.  Obviously, they can see liability problems because, legally, if a boarded, seated passenger is not violating any airline rules they could be sued for illegally removing the passenger. 

[just.a.thought]

 

Re. if United had kept upping the offer - 

 

If you’re involuntarily denied boarding, the Department of Transportation regulates what you’re entitled to. Here are the rules, as published by the DOT:-

• If you are bumped involuntarily and the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to get you to your final destination (including later connections) within one hour of your original scheduled arrival time, there is no compensation.
• If the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to arrive at your destination between one and two hours after your original arrival time (between one and four hours on international flights), the airline must pay you an amount equal to 200% of your one-way fare to your final destination that day, with a $675 maximum.
• If the substitute transportation is scheduled to get you to your destination more than two hours later (four hours internationally), or if the airline does not make any substitute travel arrangements for you, the compensation doubles (400% of your one-way fare, $1350 maximum).
• If your ticket does not show a fare (for example, a frequent-flyer award ticket or a ticket issued by a consolidator), your denied boarding compensation is based on the lowest cash, check or credit card payment charged for a ticket in the same class of service (e.g., coach, first class) on that flight.
• You always get to keep your original ticket and use it on another flight. If you choose to make your own arrangements, you can request an “involuntary refund” for the ticket for the flight you were bumped from. The denied boarding compensation is essentially a payment for your inconvenience.
• If you paid for optional services on your original flight (e.g., seat selection, checked baggage) and you did not receive those services on your substitute flight or were required to pay a second time, the airline that bumped you must refund those payments to you.

 
*
 
My understanding is that the Passenger was violently removed by an Employee of O'Hare Airport Security Staff (ie not by an Employee of United Airlines) acting alone, while several of his colleagues were present.
 
And the Passenger was also removed from the plane and (somehow) was able to *return* to the cabin, only to be removed again from the plane.
 
 
But please tell me if I'm wrong.
 

These rules apply before boarding,he was already in his assigned seat and on the official passenger list for that flight.


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[just.a.thought]

 
   The police come on the plane, ask you to leave, warn you...md or not...   you need to comply.  This guy made a spectacle of himself, clearly planning out a PR payout.... Like this impaired MD has not cancelled appointment before.
 
Of course, he should not have been injured, but he brought it on himself, clearly  indicating his preferred method of deplaning.

They had no right to ask him to leave,he had not caused any concern to the safety of the flight nor had he'd been rude to the crew or drunk?.....PR stunt?now that's just dumb


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[newnative]

1 minute ago, just.a.thought said:

Why should the passenger obey the pigs, he did nothing wrong in defending his right to be on that plane.......


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Even if you have done nothing wrong it's usually a good idea to obey a police order and sort it out later.  Especially since too many police these days seem to be trigger-happy. You could be doing nothing wrong but be dead just the same.

[newnative]

5 minutes ago, just.a.thought said:

These rules apply before boarding,he was already in his assigned seat and on the official passenger list for that flight.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Correct.  Once he was boarded and seated, United had no right to involuntarily bump him.  United also had no legal right to remove him from the plane, either with police or its own personnel, because he had not violated any of the airline's rules that would allow removal.