Denied entry into Laos because of passport 6 month validity, Now overstaying and overstay fee racking up, must get flight home

[Bastos60]

On 4/16/2017 at 10:33 AM, ubonjoe said:

If you qualify for a visa exempt entry you could fly and out and back to Hong Kong and get an entry. Hong Kong only requires passport validity equal to your allowed stay.

You could get then get a 30 day extension which would allow you enough time to get a new passport.

Dependent upon nationality Thailand only requires passport validity for your length of stay.

passport validity must be 6 months from date of entry, no exceptions.

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, Bastos60 said:

passport validity must be 6 months from date of entry, no exceptions.

That is not correct. Those from certain countries only need a passport that is valid for the length of stay.

Check a few countries here by entering a the info for a passport with less than 6 months of validity here https://skyteam.traveldoc.aero/ that are listed here for the tourist visa exemption scheme http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/customize/62281-Summary-of-Countries-and-Territories-entitled-for.html .

[Bastos60]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That is not correct. Those from certain countries only need a passport that is valid for the length of stay.

Check a few countries here by entering a the info for a passport with less than 6 months of validity here https://skyteam.traveldoc.aero/ that are listed here for the tourist visa exemption scheme http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/customize/62281-Summary-of-Countries-and-Territories-entitled-for.html .

I only take into account the information from government sources. 
Skyteam is not a government source, even I can enter Thailand with a passport that is only valid for 1 more month after arriving. But they can still deny your entry into the country.
All official sources state at least 6 months from day of entry. If they allow you to enter with just enough passport validity to stay for your holiday is up to the immigration officers.

 

 

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, Bastos60 said:

I only take into account the information from government sources. 
Skyteam is not a government source, even I can enter Thailand with a passport that is only valid for 1 more month after arriving. But they can still deny your entry into the country.
All official sources state at least 6 months from day of entry. If they allow you to enter with just enough passport validity to stay for your holiday is up to the immigration officers.

Strange how often that official rule is waived and people allowed into Thailand with a passport having less than 6 months validity.

 

I assume you have little experience (unlike @ubonjoe) with Thailand immigration rules. Excluding the laws and police orders, you can trust very little on the websites of the Thai consulates and even the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Much of the information on there is well over a decade outdated, and some has never been correct..

 

The airlines need to enforce the rules as stated to them by Thai immigration, because if they do not, and someone is denied entry, they are liable for repatriation expenses and sometimes fines. Thus, systems used by IATA associated airlines are kept almost 100% up to date and correct.

[Brian Allen]

First thing to do: Go to your Bangkok Embassy and renew your passport. 

[Maestro]

5 hours ago, Bastos60 said:

I only take into account the information from government sources...

 

I'd be grateful if you posted the links to the government sources you are taking into account regarding the minimum period of passport validity for an application for a visa for travel to Thailand and for visa-exempt entry.

[Bastos60]

13 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

I'd be grateful if you posted the links to the government sources you are taking into account regarding the minimum period of passport validity for an application for a visa for travel to Thailand and for visa-exempt entry.

How about starting with Thai embassy in your country?  http://www.thaiembassy.ch/ http://www.thaikonsulat.ch http://www.thaiembassy.org/ 
http://www.thaikonsulat.ch/Merkblatt_fuer_Tourist_Visa_Einmalige_Einreise.pdf 
Most embassies have a website listing all necessary information for travelling to Thailand.

What about your local governments website for foreign affairs, they also should have information on requirement for travelling to Thailand. https://www.fdfa.admin.ch/eda/en/home.html

 

The Q&A on the Thai ministry of foreign affairs clearly states :

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15380-Questions-&-Answers-on-Thai-Visa.html

 

Q:    I would like to go to Thailand for vacation for 2 weeks. I hold American passport. Do I need a visa?               

 

A:    Nationals of the United States of America and 41 other countries are eligible

to travel to Thailand, for tourism purpose, with the exemption of visa and

are permitted to stay in the Kingdom for a period of not exceeding 30 days.

Therefore, you do not need a visa.

 

However, please make sure that you are in possession of a passport valid for

at least 6 months, a round-trip air ticket, and adequate finances equivalent to

at least 10,000 Baht per person or 20,000 Baht per family. Otherwise, you may be

inconvenienced upon entry into the country.

 

Furthermore, foreigners who enter the Kingdom under this Tourist Visa Exemption Scheme may re-enter and stay in Thailand for a cumulative duration of stay of

not exceeding 90 days within any 6-month period from the date of first entry.

 

Would they allow you to enter if you have < 6 months validity?  That depends on what the recommendations from the ministry are and it may be up to the discretion of the immigration officer to allow you to enter.  But if you run into problems, it could be in your disadvantage. 

For example : You have an accident the last week of your holiday and require medical treatment and are not allowed to fly, you won't be able to extend your visa exemption/VOA since
you do not meet the requirements which is > 6 months validity on the day of entry.

 

There are posts enough on TV about this issue where people claim to have entered Thailand with passports with < 6 months validity.  But any inquiry at an embassy will be answered with > 6 months validity. Which is a correct official response.

 

 

Edited June 1, 2017 by Bastos60

[Bastos60]

15 hours ago, BritTim said:

Strange how often that official rule is waived and people allowed into Thailand with a passport having less than 6 months validity.

 

I assume you have little experience (unlike @ubonjoe) with Thailand immigration rules. Excluding the laws and police orders, you can trust very little on the websites of the Thai consulates and even the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Much of the information on there is well over a decade outdated, and some has never been correct..

 

The airlines need to enforce the rules as stated to them by Thai immigration, because if they do not, and someone is denied entry, they are liable for repatriation expenses and sometimes fines. Thus, systems used by IATA associated airlines are kept almost 100% up to date and correct.

And I hope to keep that experience to a minimum. 

One persons experience is not that of another.
There are examples where those immigration rules tend to blow up in peoples faces because they experienced them otherwise.

 

The system used by IATA is based on agreements they have with immigration/foreign affairs and are no official stances, why do people keep forgetting this. The IATA in no way is a substitute for any rule/law. 

Do you REALLY think that if you are denied entry in to a country, the IATA system will automatically override that decision because their system says so?

Border crossings by land? What does the IATA say about that? Nothing. 

Why? Because IATA only provides information when travelling by air.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2017 by Bastos60

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Bastos60 said:

The system used by IATA is based on agreements they have with immigration/foreign affairs and are no official stances, why do people keep forgetting this. The IATA in no way is a substitute for any rule/law. 

Do you REALLY think that if you are denied entry in to a country, the IATA system will automatically override that decision because their system says so?

The airlines rely on the information provided by the IATA to verify a person meets the requirements to enter a country. The info is not done by way of any agreement with the countries that provide them with the info.

If a person met the requirements when they boarded the flight to here the airline might come to a person's defence if they were denied entry since they could be fined and have to pay for the person's return flight.

[BritTim]

21 minutes ago, Bastos60 said:

Do you REALLY think that if you are denied entry in to a country, the IATA system will automatically override that decision because their system says so?

No. However, I cannot imagine IATA recommending to its members that they risk financial penalties by failing to follow Thailand immigration rules.

21 minutes ago, Bastos60 said:

Border crossings by land? What does the IATA say about that? Nothing. 

Why? Because IATA only provides information when travelling by air.

That is correct. However, it is mostly irrelevant. Countries bordering Thailand do have a 6 month rule.

 

EDIT: Note that the IATA database does sometimes include special rules for land borders (such as the official rule that those entering Cambodia by land must usually spend at least one night in Cambodia.

Edited June 1, 2017 by BritTim

[Bastos60]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

The airlines rely on the information provided by the IATA to verify a person meets the requirements to enter a country. The info is not done by way of any agreement with the countries that provide them with the info.

If a person met the requirements when they boarded the flight to here the airline might come to a person's defence if they were denied entry since they could be fined and have to pay for the person's return flight.

I read the magic word 'might'. They don't, but they might. 

Look, any advise to give to people is, if passport expires within 6 months of entry into Thailand, go renew it before you leave. 
If that is too expensive, they shouldn't be travelling at all.

 

I don't want this to end in a flame war or anything, but people need to inform themselves on the immigration rules of a country they travel to and in 90% the information they gather
is confusing.  And in OP's case, he goes on the cheap and got caught.

[BritTim]

56 minutes ago, Bastos60 said:

The Q&A on the Thai ministry of foreign affairs clearly states :

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15380-Questions-&-Answers-on-Thai-Visa.html

The same page you cite also has this:

Quote

Furthermore, foreigners who enter the Kingdom under this Tourist Visa Exemption Scheme may re-enter and stay in Thailand for a cumulative duration of stay of not exceeding 90 days within any 6-month period from the date of first entry.

a rule that has not been true for many years.

[BritTim]

4 minutes ago, Bastos60 said:

Look, any advise to give to people is, if passport expires within 6 months of entry into Thailand, go renew it before you leave. 

I agree 100% with this. Since most other countries apply a 6-month rule, it is folly to travel on a soon to expire passport.

[Bastos60]

5 minutes ago, BritTim said:

No. However, I cannot imagine IATA recommending to its members that they risk financial penalties by failing to follow Thailand immigration rules.

That is correct. However, it is mostly irrelevant. Countries bordering Thailand do have a 6 month rule.

Airlines don't have to consider the passengers travel itinerary, they just have to make sure those passports are valid and preferably at least as long as the trip lasts.

The IATA website for instance for a travel to Thailand in my case, stated, leaving on 14th June and returning 28th June, my passport only needs to be valid until the 14th July.
It could have also said until the 29th but it didn't because people are allowed to stay for 30 days, so their recommendation is based on the time allowed entry.

[Bastos60]

6 minutes ago, BritTim said:

The same page you cite also has this:

a rule that has not been true for many years.

Explain? Why not true? Because it has never been enforced?

You shouldn't say it hasn't been true, sometimes some of those rules are just no longer enforce, but it doesn't mean they are invalid.

If you get caught for anything, they might really enforce this on you.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Bastos60

[BritTim]

1 minute ago, Bastos60 said:

5 minutes ago, BritTim said:

The same page you cite also has this:

a rule that has not been true for many years.

Explain? Why not true? Because it has never been enforced?

At one time it was strictly enforced. @ubonjoe can probably put his finger on the order that revoked this rule, but I am not going to spend time finding it. It was at one time very important to be aware of this and, while obsolete for a long time now, you can find this quoted all over the place (partly, no doubt, because the MFA does not keep their website up to date).

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, BritTim said:

At one time it was strictly enforced. @ubonjoe can probably put his finger on the order that revoked this rule, but I am not going to spend time finding it.

It was rescinded in 2008 when the 15 day rule at border crossings started. visa exemp tPO 778-2551_en.pdf

[Bastos60]

2 minutes ago, BritTim said:

At one time it was strictly enforced. @ubonjoe can probably put his finger on the order that revoked this rule, but I am not going to spend time finding it. It was at one time very important to be aware of this and, while obsolete for a long time now, you can find this quoted all over the place (partly, no doubt, because the MFA does not keep their website up to date).

 

Yeah found that information as well.
Good to know, thanks for sharing.

 

 

[Maestro]

10 hours ago, Bastos60 said:

How about starting with Thai embassy in your country?

 

Thank you. I agree with your above sentence. The only genuinely valid and practical information for a visa applicant is list of requirements provided by the Thai embassy or consulate where the application will be made.

 

Thank you. I agree with your above sentence. The only genuinely valid and practical information for a visa applicant is the list of requirements provided by the Thai embassy or consulate where the application will be made.

 

Other sources may also be "official" but may not match completely the requirements of the consulate in question, as the requirements often vary from one consulate to the next.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

 

12 hours ago, Bastos60 said:

How about starting with Thai embassy in your country?

 

Thank you. I agree with your above sentence. The only genuinely valid and practical information for a visa applicant is list of requirements provided by the Thai embassy or consulate where the application will be made.

Quite true. However, beware of relying on a consulate's website for that information. While a few consulates have accurate information posted, in most cases, only by talking to the consular officials at the consulate can you be sure of their current policies.

[Bastos60]

10 hours ago, Maestro said:

Other sources may also be "official" but may not match completely the requirements of the consulate in question, as the requirements often vary from one consulate to the next.

 

9 hours ago, BritTim said:

Quite true. However, beware of relying on a consulate's website for that information. While a few consulates have accurate information posted, in most cases, only by talking to the consular officials at the consulate can you be sure of their current policies.

What I usually do if there is any uncertainty, I cross check with embassies located in other countries for a particular country, well their websites or any official sources available.
If that fails, call them, email them.

Forums and communities like TV are a good reference point to find information, ask for help, as they accumulate a huge collection of experiences. But that information also
gets outdated since old posts that might no longer have valid information stay available.
 

[JackThompson]

 

On 6/1/2017 at 1:44 AM, BritTim said:

The airlines need to enforce the rules as stated to them by Thai immigration, because if they do not, and someone is denied entry, they are liable for repatriation expenses and sometimes fines. Thus, systems used by IATA associated airlines are kept almost 100% up to date and correct.

Almost - yes.  IATA should remove the part in their Thailand-rules saying that "plastic" is OK to meet the 10K (exempt) / 20K (visa) Baht requirement of funds to have when entering the country.  

It isn't - as people have been denied entry who had debit/credit cards with the required funds available.  It should state "Cash or Travelers Checks."

 

Clearly, many enter on passports without 6-mo, but I would not try it.  I suppose those who neglect to notice their passport is about to expire have no choice but to take the chance.

[Robin]

I got into Thailand earlier this year with a UK passport valid less that 6 months, but with a valid Retirement visa, by simply telling the Immigration and Airline that I was going to get a new passport in Thailand and then get my visa copied into this.   

Exactly what I did.  Applied for a new passport at Passport office, (Trendy Building,) and when this was issued I was given a letter to show Thai Immigration asking them to copy existing visa into new passport.  Visit to my local Immigration office, Phayao, and this was done.  Immigration copied visa into new passport and also the current entry stamp.

In my opinion it was easier to get new passport in Bangkok that it was last time I tried in London

It might be worth saying that Thai Immigration will not extend a visa beyond the expiry date of the passport.

[PoorSucker]

Immigration copied visa into new passport and also the current entry stamp.

I suspect you have extension of stay based on retirement as immigration only transfers extensions not visas.
Again right terminology is important so people can get correct advice.

[sead]

Go to your embassy and say you lost your passport. You will get a temporary one. Get out asap.

[HooHaa]

many nationalities in the phils are exempt from the 6 month validity rule

[BritTim]

On 6/17/2017 at 4:43 PM, sead said:

Go to your embassy and say you lost your passport. You will get a temporary one. Get out asap.

Rather than lie to the embassy, I would suggest you tell them the truth. To report the passport stolen, you would first need to make a false police report. I do not see the point in lying unnecessarily to the Thai authorities and your own country. While stupid to put yourself in this situation, it is legitimate to ask for an emergency travel document when your current passport cannot be used for a proposed journey.

[BritTim]

21 minutes ago, HooHaa said:

many nationalities in the phils are exempt from the 6 month validity rule

Good information. Previously (prior to this November 2015 change) the only country in the region besides Thailand where this was true was Hong Kong.

[Bastos60]

3 hours ago, HooHaa said:

many nationalities in the phils are exempt from the 6 month validity rule

There is no such thing as an exempt from any validity rule.

Like every country, Immigration has to deal with these situations as per guidelines from their respective ministries and/or police orders. It is not because it is written in the law they have to enforce it strictly, they can relax the rules through written guidelines and have the immigration officers use their own good judgement.

 

http://www.philembassy.be/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=298&Itemid=223

 

Guidelines on the Entry of Temporary Visitors to the Philippines

Nationals from countries listed below who are travelling to the Philippines for business or tourism purposes are allowed to enter the Philippines without visas for a stay not exceeding thirty (30) days, provided they hold valid tickets for their return journey to port of origin or next port of destination and passports valid for a period of at least six (6) months beyond the contemplated period of stay.

 

https://consular.dfa.gov.ph/visainformation

 

It is not because it is not written in stone that they can not be flexible.  But it doesn't mean people are by default exempt. Heck even a valid visa does not garantuee entry into any country. They still can boot your ass out of the country.

 

[BritTim]

5 hours ago, Bastos60 said:

There is no such thing as an exempt from any validity rule.

Quote

10. Who are exempt from the “six-month passport validity” rule?

 

1. Philippine passport holders;
2. Former Filipinos and their dependents (immediate family members);
3. Permanent residents and holders of other special visa categories requiring temporary residents (with valid ACR I-Cards);
4. Passports of recognized foreign-government officials;
5. Visa under CA 613, Sec. 9, except Sec.  9(a), and 47(a)(2)  where visa validity extends beyond passport expiration date, provided, an embassy or consulate is maintained in the Philippines;
6. Those admitted by the Commissioner on humanitarian grounds; and
7. Pursuant to Operations Order No. SBM-2015-026, nationals of the following countries may be admitted into the Philippines with passports of less than six (6) months validity from date of arrival:

 

1. Angola                                    22. Korea

2. Argentina                                23. Kuwait

3. Australia                                 24. Laos

4. Austria                                   25. Mexico

5. Belgium                                  26. Myanmar

6. Benin                                     27. Netherlands

7. Brazil                                     28. New Zealand

8. Cambodia                               29. Niger

9. Canada                                  30. Papua New Guinea

10. Chile                                    31. Peru

11. Cyprus                                 32. Portugal

12. Ecuador                                33. Romania

13. France                                  34. Saudi Arabia

14. Germany                              35. Singapore

15. Greece                                 36. Spain

16. Iceland                                 37. Switzerland

17. Indonesia                             38. Thailand

18. Ireland                                 39. Turkey

19. Israel                                   40. United States of America

20. Italy                                     41. Venezuela

21. Japan

(source http://www.immigration.gov.ph/faqs/travel-req)

 

If you have evidence that Operations Order No. SBM-2015-026 has been superceded, please point to your source.