Kamala Harris Defends Policy Stance in Heated Fox News Interview

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

Government secrecy undermines public trust
By The Nation

 

So now Thailand has a submarine, but why, and at what cost to stability, remain to be seen

 

BANGKOK: -- The government’s covert approval for the purchase of a Chinese-made submarine for the Royal Thai Navy has further stirred public resentment over the controversial procurement. 

 

The government admitted only this week that the Cabinet had quietly given the purchase the green light on April 18, when media attention was focused on the theft of a Royal Plaza plaque commemorating the 1932 constitutional revolution. Infuriatingly, the government’s spokesman, when asked earlier in the week about the Cabinet’s decision, had refused to admit the submarine deal had been sanctioned. Meanwhile senior Navy officers claimed to have no knowledge of any Cabinet endorsement.

 

The admission finally arrived, but only after the news media and outspoken critics of the government raised a ruckus. By way of explanation, the government claimed the deal was classified “top secret” and thus the Cabinet decision could not be publicly disclosed. It was hardly a convincing response. The slipshod way the submarine purchase is being handled in high places has generated suspicion that some sort of cover-up is underway, that the public is being duped, or at least that we simply do not have the right to know the details of this costly enterprise. The public outcry that ensued this week amply proved that the government blundered badly in wishing to keep this matter “top secret”. 

 

Eventually more details were allowed to emerge. The Cabinet had quietly approved the purchase of the Bt13.5-billion submarine, the first of three Yuan-class subs to be acquired from China, total price Bt36 billion. No one in government has as yet adequately answered the question that has dogged this affair from the outset: Why does Thailand need submarines? Now we have the deal approved surreptitiously while public attention was distracted, and discover further that the Cabinet’s consideration of the submarine purchase had been postponed repeatedly. That suggests there is good reason why neither the government nor the Navy can satisfactorily explain the need for submarines. It seems clear that the government was aware all along there would be furious opposition if the matter had been handled openly.

 

What also seems clear is that this government is dangerously unaware of the importance of transparency in its dealings. Governments that rule in a transparent manner are able to maintain public trust, a crucial element for their retention of power and the nation’s progress. Every government needs public trust in order to ensure stability. However, the submarine debacle is a serious, self-inflicted wound that sets public trust back enormously, perhaps irretrievably.

 

Our post-coup administration is no doubt confident it has the unwavering support of the military, given that so many key government figures have armed-forces backgrounds, including Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha and Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan. Approving the military’s shopping list for new hardware is an obvious way to cement that support, a tactic on which even civilian governments rely. But no government can afford to ignore the importance of public faith.

 

The post-coup government should keep in mind that it did not come to power thanks to a voter mandate, and that it has probably only stayed in power this long because it brooks no overt opposition. But continuing secrecy in its dealings can only erode the public trust that has kept this regime in its position for almost three years. Acting covertly against the wishes of the majority will dissatisfy many of its supporters – an undermining of authority it can ill afford.

 

If that dissatisfaction continues to mount, the government will be unable to stem opposition, and the fallout will be severe. All the military hardware in the world won’t prevent the inevitable outcome.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/opinion/today_editorial/30313472

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-04-27

[yellowboat]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

because it brooks no overt opposition.

Opposition is dealt with by harassment and threats of jail time.  The military fears no one and is therefor answers to no one.

[RichardColeman]

Seems to me the whole point of buying the subs and stuff and bankrupting the country is to ensure the new 'elected' government has no money to effectively work with,  so that the army has to step in again. Repeat.

[Bluespunk]

"Government secrecy undermines public trust"

 

What trust?

[aussie11950]

Can the submarines travel up the river to Bangkok?

I thought the river would be to shallow.

 

[baboon]

"The slipshod way the submarine purchase is being handled in high places has generated suspicion that some sort of cover-up is underway, that the public is being duped, or at least that we simply do not have the right to know the details of this costly enterprise."

 

And you are just cottoning on to this three years later? Boy, are you going to be in for a shock after any election!

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

What also seems clear is that this government is dangerously unaware of the importance of transparency in its dealings.

No.

What is clear is that the military regime consciously ignores transparency in its dealings.

[Baerboxer]

45 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

No.

What is clear is that the military regime consciously ignores transparency in its dealings.

 

First we had the statues. Then someone's nephew's new building company picking up contracts. Then a seemingly very expensive trip to Hawaii. Now the purchase of one or more submarines (who really knows the plan), in which the public procurement rules may or not be applied, bit of a secret.

 

The common strand is that in each case, when questions are / were asked, the answer seems to be "nothing to see here, shut your gob or else". 

 

 

[sandemara]

In the interests of good government and community stability, the truth simply must not be tolerated. This is for your own good.

[mtls2005]

On 4/27/2017 at 8:50 AM, RichardColeman said:

Seems to me the whole point of buying the subs and stuff and bankrupting the country is to ensure the new 'elected' government has no money to effectively work with,  so that the army has to step in again. Repeat.

 

Meh. The "new" government will effectively be "green" so no need to "step in" (as they will never step out). They will "oversee" any "elected" commoners effectively, and never "step away" again. Lesson learned. 

[AGareth2]

On 4/27/2017 at 5:22 AM, webfact said:

If that dissatisfaction continues to mount, the government will be unable to stem opposition, and the fallout will be severe. All the military hardware in the world won’t prevent the inevitable outcome.

one forgets Thai apathy

[boomerangutang]

                      36 billion baht for 3 subs (over $333 million each!), ......Chinese (read: 'poor quality') to boot.

 

                         The Thai gov't's own studies find that, for large municipal outlays, about 1/3, yes; ONE THIRD, of money spent goes into corrupt middlemen's pockets.  That's what the gov't's own studies concede.  The actual numbers could be 50% or more.   But let's take the conservative estimate, and remember the deal is between Chinese and Thai wheeler-dealers - both nationalities are historically corrupt to the core.   

 

                      Therefore, of the 36 billion baht purchase price, roughly 12 billion baht will bet divvied up among a few top players - or more realistically, clandestinely sent to numbered accounts overseas.   Of course, any big-ticket purchase will also entail loans from banks.  In this case, it will likely be Chinese banks.  So added % rates will ramp the purchase cost up toward and above Bt.50 billion.  

 

                        Where does that money come from?  Not from the 3% of Thais who are very rich.  No, they have crafty ways of avoiding paying taxes.  It won't come from the 60% who don't pay taxes, usually because they're too poor and/or out of the system.  So that leaves around a third of Thais footing the bill, and thereby putting billions of baht in the pockets of self-appointed politicians in biz-suits who, just a few years ago, were parading around as generals, with dozens of medals pinned to each of their jackets.

 

                            As if that weren't enough, the Thai gov't had an option to buy German subs for much lower prices, just a few years earlier.  Even Chinese engineers would admit that German craftsmanship is head & shoulders better than Chinese.   Trouble with that is, the Germans don't have a long deep history of bribe-taking, as the Chinese do, so it would be a lot less lucrative for Thai top brass to do business with German weapons dealers, than with dealers from China.

[boomerangutang]

12 hours ago, sandemara said:

In the interests of good government and community stability, the truth simply must not be tolerated. This is for your own good.

True for USA, as well as Thailand.

[boomerangutang]

On 4/27/2017 at 11:17 AM, aussie11950 said:

Can the submarines travel up the river to Bangkok? I thought the river would be to shallow.

Maybe the subs will be retro-fitted with retractable paddles - which project out the sides.  They can then slither up mud banks, like giant iron guppies.

[worgeordie]

What secrecy,its there for all to see, but better not comment,as you could be up for some A A. 

regards worgeordie

[Srikcir]

2 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

True for USA, as well as Thailand.

The USA takes it a step further.

The 1997 Foreign Corrupt Practices Act even makes it a crime for an American company to unknowingly benefit from a partner’s corruption if it could have discovered illicit activity but avoided doing so. There is no "head in the sand" loophole.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/13/donald-trumps-worst-deal

 

 

[Srikcir]

... China would take six years to build the submarine, and the budget had been earmarked to pay for the submarine over those six years. http://thediplomat.com/2017/01/will-thailand-seal-its-china-submarine-deal-this-year/

 

Thai military spending is like an entitlement program - its funding for programs cannot be reduced, shifted or blocked by successive governments, ie., elected, especially given the military will control the Senate and the Ministry of Defense.

[Xonax]

In Thailand huge investments are normally only made to generate a huge kickback to someone.

 

 

[boomerangutang]

                         I wonder if there was any wrangling about price?

Thais are genetically compelled to wrangle about big ticket items.

 

                   Try this on for size:  Let's say you have a car or property for sale.  If a Thai person responds,  79 out of 80 times, .....whatever price you start with, the Thai person is going to cut down - along with all the other obligatory gestures and bellyaching, "oh no, ha ha, that's much too much, ha ha......"  They do it even (by phone inquiry) when they don't know the quality of what they're bidding for.   It's as automatic as putting socks on before shoes.

 

               However, when wrangling about really big items (entity to entity), like submarines, it's a different conversation.  It's all hush-hush and focused on how much tea money can be paid, and how much skimming can come off the top.

 

 

 

 

[Eric Loh]

On 4/27/2017 at 2:33 PM, Baerboxer said:

 

 

The common strand is that in each case, when questions are / were asked, the answer seems to be "nothing to see here, shut your gob or else". 

 

 

Not late for you to realize that coup government is not accountable to anyone and can shut you up extrajudicially. The rice and tablets schemes may be bad and can be questioned freely and at the end of the day, the government is accountable to the electorate.