United Airlines reaches settlement with passenger dragged from plane

[humqdpf]

On 28/4/2017 at 1:02 PM, LawrenceN said:

It's implied in the article that United will continue to overbook, but that they will offer up to $10,000 to passengers to delay their travel. I'm as sure as you are that other airlines will continue to overbook as well, so they can fill those planes. And I don't mean to judge the airlines harshly for overbooking; they do it due to the economic pressure to compete. The higher limits on compensation bring some balance back into the equation.

The issue was never with overbooking - overbooking is standard and it is a seldom event when there are not enough seats for everyone on the plane.

The problem was appalling management, that the airline could not properly manage the transfer of staff and filling of a plane.

 

First mistake, they decided that the staff were far more important than customers and that it was OK to get staff to take up paid-for and booked seats (staff had not booked any seats - otherwise there would not be this problem);

 

Second mistake, they did not perform the bumping BEFORE seating everyone on the plane. By that stage, passengers have already notified their relatives/lovers/colleagues/taxi drivers that they are on their way and it is very difficult to reverse out of that both from a personal management point of view and psychologically. Much easier to do it at check-in.

 

Third mistake, if it was so damn important or crucial that the staff be moved, then the airline did not properly auction the seats as an incentive. If it was worth $10,000 per seat to move the staff, then continue to increase the offer up to that figure. The airline did not do so. If no one takes any offer up to $10,000, then you know that the cost of moving the staff is going to be much more than the value of moving them on that plane.

 

Fourth mistake: use violence against your law abiding passengers. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Farang hunter]

24 minutes ago, humqdpf said:

overbooking is standard

with all respect I totally disagree with the statement mentioned above, it starts with the word over so it clearly means to me it is not fair term for people buying your product.

to put it in simple words you cannot sell what you can't offer, that is not fair and it is a scam.

common sense people please

p.s overbooking means to me like you have 100 seat to sell and you sell more tickets in case some don't show up, if that is not the case I understand!

then there is something wrong with english language and how it is being used.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Farang hunter

[daveAustin]

10M

[Farang hunter]

16 minutes ago, A1Str8 said:

Okay I watched it so what's your point? He's talking about how it raises a philosophical issue, that creation contains both the good and the bad? Why did the Creator do that? To answer his question, it's because every coin has two sides. One does not exist without the other. And then he goes on to discuss god almighty. But what does that have to do with the united airlines?

Which I don't hate by the way, but half of the world does.

you didn't watch it because I posted it 35 min ago and you replied 10 minutes ago and the video length is 40 minutes...!?

but to answer your question ..do you agree with overbooking policy?

Edited April 30, 2017 by Farang hunter

[ddavidovsky]

This is the new trend of 'social justice blackmail' (I hereby coin the phrase).

 

The message is clear: people have only to throw a tantrum, refuse to comply in any situation, get their feelings hurt, and as long as they know their case will generate knee-jerk outrage on social media (which it always does because the majority of people on social media are seeking ways to anonymously express their insecurity), then they will be in for a big pay-off.

There will be people now deliberately plotting to make 'victims' of themselves in any situation they can.

Dr Dao has shown everyone how. Shabby, pathetic, and a significant degeneration of society.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

This is the new trend of 'social justice blackmail' (I hereby coin the phrase).

 

The message is clear: people have only to throw a tantrum, refuse to comply in any situation, get their feelings hurt, and as long as they know their case will generate knee-jerk outrage on social media (which it always does because the majority of people on social media are seeking ways to anonymously express their insecurity), then they will be in for a big pay-off.

There will be people now deliberately plotting to make 'victims' of themselves in any situation they can.

Dr Dao has shown everyone how. Shabby, pathetic, and a significant degeneration of society.

So, you think it's OK for thugs to drag a paying passenger out of his seat, and commit an assault on him.

 

[Farang hunter]

Some people here I don't want to quote just make me sick on how they justify things like dragging people off planes, properly they are the same thugs.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[puck2]

On 30/4/2560 at 3:13 AM, humqdpf said:

The issue was never with overbooking - overbooking is standard and it is a seldom event when there are not enough seats for everyone on the plane.

The problem was appalling management, that the airline could not properly manage the transfer of staff and filling of a plane.

 

First mistake, they decided that the staff were far more important than customers and that it was OK to get staff to take up paid-for and booked seats (staff had not booked any seats - otherwise there would not be this problem);

 

Second mistake, they did not perform the bumping BEFORE seating everyone on the plane. By that stage, passengers have already notified their relatives/lovers/colleagues/taxi drivers that they are on their way and it is very difficult to reverse out of that both from a personal management point of view and psychologically. Much easier to do it at check-in.

 

Third mistake, if it was so damn important or crucial that the staff be moved, then the airline did not properly auction the seats as an incentive. If it was worth $10,000 per seat to move the staff, then continue to increase the offer up to that figure. The airline did not do so. If no one takes any offer up to $10,000, then you know that the cost of moving the staff is going to be much more than the value of moving them on that plane.

 

Fourth mistake: use violence against your law abiding passengers. 

 

Farang Hunter  -   +1;   for 4 mistakes

 

I understand that the airlines have an overbooking standard what works properly in general.

To solve problems by violence - as in this case - that is what I condemn. Did we ever hear about the same action from Thai Airways, British Airways, SAS, Lufthansa, ANA, JAL, etc. ?

 

The problem originates from the United Airlines. Therefore they are responsible for the (violent) consequences.

 

 

[mtls2005]

And...

 

Chicago O'Hare security chief fired weeks after United flub

 

The head of security at Chicago's airports has been fired, just weeks after a passenger was dragged from a United Airlines plane by security officers at O'Hare International Airport. The Department of Aviation said in a statement Thursday that Jeffrey Redding "has been terminated from his duties" at O'Hare and Midway airports. No reason was given.

 

Redding was overseeing the investigation into the forcible removal of 69-year-old physician David Dao from the United plane by three of his officers April 9. Dao has agreed an undisclosed settlement with the airline. Dao's lawyer said Thursday that the settlement averts any lawsuit against Chicago officials.

 

Separately, the Chicago Tribune recently reported that Redding was fired from his previous job for sexual harassment in 2015.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/chicago-ohare-security-chief-fired-weeks-united-flub-47080152

 

 

 

email I received from UAL...

 

Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.
 
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
 
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
 
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
 
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
 
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
 
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that. 
 
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
 
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
 
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
 
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United." 
 
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
 
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve. 
 
With Great Gratitude,
 
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2017 by mtls2005

[ddavidovsky]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So, you think it's OK for thugs to drag a paying passenger out of his seat, and commit an assault on him.

 

Wouldn't have happened if the passenger had complied with instructions, which he was contractually bound to do. He asked for it. Literally. And he wasn't assaulted - the injury was inadvertent due to his own resistance. He even ran through the plane shouting 'kill me', displaying a degree of anti-social, irresponsible, overly-neurotic behaviour which itself is reason enough for his removal.  

 

I think it's okay for authority to be able to exercise appropriate authority, especially in the hermetic atmosphere of a plane capsule where everybody HAS to behave.

Civilisation is built on social organisation, which involves a social contract, which does not involve childish, egocentric, victim-promoting behaviour. The bigger picture here is that this is an example of social decadence.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

email I received from UAL...

Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
 
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
 
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
 
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
 
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
 

 
With Great Gratitude,
 
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Wouldn't have happened if the passenger had complied with instructions, which he was contractually bound to do. He asked for it. Literally. And he wasn't assaulted - the injury was inadvertent due to his own resistance. He even ran through the plane shouting 'kill me', displaying a degree of anti-social, irresponsible, overly-neurotic behaviour which itself is reason enough for his removal.  

 

I think it's okay for authority to be able to exercise appropriate authority, especially in the hermetic atmosphere of a plane capsule where everybody HAS to behave.

Civilisation is built on social organisation, which involves a social contract, which does not involve childish, egocentric, victim-promoting behaviour. The bigger picture here is that this is an example of social decadence.

It appears that the airline management disagree with you !

 

I've deleted a lot of mtls2005's post, and hope this is OK as I haven't tried to change any of the context of the post.

[Rhys]

.....45 would say bring back the days of the VC helicopter request....

[Briggsy]

On 30/04/2017 at 0:50 AM, ddavidovsky said:

Disgusting that this guy's anti-social tantrum should earn him a pay-off that will see him good for the rest of his life. Some cute trick. If he says it was all about the principle - well then, having made his point, can we now see him donate his ill-gotten gains to charity?

You don't give up, do you?

[Farang hunter]

2 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

You don't give up, do you?

I think if he gives up his attitude then life would be worthless to him...let him be better

[ddavidovsky]

9 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

It appears that the airline management disagree with you !

 

I've deleted a lot of mtls2005's post, and hope this is OK as I haven't tried to change any of the context of the post.

Of course they don't agree - they are disgusted and furious at the fuss, but have been bullied into caving in because the future of the company has actually put on the line by social media pressure that is fairly fascistic in its sociopathic malevolence.

 

The words are not too strong. There are people who actually want to see the whole airline collapse as a result of this trivial incident - one of the world's biggest airlines with tens of thousands of employees that has served millions of people for nearly a century. Yes, people actually want to see the whole airline collapse - all those jobs lost - on account of one passenger's selfish intransigence.

 

It's social media crusading that I'm against. If anyone has a complaint to make against an airline or any other company, there is a proper legal procedure that can be followed. Social media PC fascism actually wrecks lives.

[Chou Anou]

51 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Of course they don't agree - they are disgusted and furious at the fuss, but have been bullied into caving in because the future of the company has actually put on the line by social media pressure that is fairly fascistic in its sociopathic malevolence.

 

The words are not too strong. There are people who actually want to see the whole airline collapse as a result of this trivial incident - one of the world's biggest airlines with tens of thousands of employees that has served millions of people for nearly a century. Yes, people actually want to see the whole airline collapse - all those jobs lost - on account of one passenger's selfish intransigence.

 

It's social media crusading that I'm against. If anyone has a complaint to make against an airline or any other company, there is a proper legal procedure that can be followed. Social media PC fascism actually wrecks lives.

In the real world, supporters of government and corporation thuggery and fascism are quite dangerous, but this ddavidovsky character is, on a forum like this, just trying to get everyone upset and riled up by his outlandish statements. He's harmless and thrives on others' outrage against him. It's best that you all ignore him; if you do so, I guarantee he will disappear.

[55Jay]

1 hour ago, Chou Anou said:

In the real world, supporters of government and corporation thuggery and fascism are quite dangerous, but this ddavidovsky character is, on a forum like this, just trying to get everyone upset and riled up by his outlandish statements. He's harmless and thrives on others' outrage against him. It's best that you all ignore him; if you do so, I guarantee he will disappear.

@ddavidovsky has a valid point about the inappropriate, knee-jerk use of social media, and the negative impact that can result.  I agreed with him weeks ago on that specific point.  He's dead wrong about the rest of it though, and just as obtuse as UA CEO Munoz.

 

US Airlines and their employees have lost the plot and needed a sanity check.  CEO Munoz' pig-headed response, for days on end, was Exhibit A that the attitude problem exists like we all knew it did, and that it goes all the way to the top.  

 

Had it not been for the global outrage on social media, the upside down situation this incident points to, would never have gotten the attention it deserves. 

 

Obviously the Board is not happy with this incident, how it was handled, the PR nightmare, now being hauled in front of Congress to be flogged publicly again.   This incident uncovered their dirty laundry in a very sustained, public way.   CEO Munoz was an unforgivable, global embarrassment.  A liability.   The public may have short memories these days, but not the Board.  I fully expect to hear a quiet announcement in the coming months that UA CEO Munoz has decided to step down in order to spend more time with his family -or- to seek new challenges....... 

[SiamBeast]

That was the least they can do - good job. I'd be curious to know the amount.

[Farang hunter]

United CEO: Passenger Incident 'Epic Mistake'

 

 

[pegman]

15 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

Wouldn't have happened if the passenger had complied with instructions, which he was contractually bound to do. He asked for it. Literally. And he wasn't assaulted - the injury was inadvertent due to his own resistance. He even ran through the plane shouting 'kill me', displaying a degree of anti-social, irresponsible, overly-neurotic behaviour which itself is reason enough for his removal.  

 

I think it's okay for authority to be able to exercise appropriate authority, especially in the hermetic atmosphere of a plane capsule where everybody HAS to behave.

Civilisation is built on social organisation, which involves a social contract, which does not involve childish, egocentric, victim-promoting behaviour. The bigger picture here is that this is an example of social decadence.

Ain't that sad. A leveling of the playing field. With the advent of social media the authoritarian elite you worship, while pining for the long lost days  of absolute monarchy,  need to mine their abuses or meet their demise. Now to get that thug security guard behind bars for an extended vacation.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/2/2017 at 10:54 AM, ddavidovsky said:

Wouldn't have happened if the passenger had complied with instructions, which he was contractually bound to do. He asked for it. Literally. And he wasn't assaulted - the injury was inadvertent due to his own resistance. He even ran through the plane shouting 'kill me', displaying a degree of anti-social, irresponsible, overly-neurotic behaviour which itself is reason enough for his removal.  

 

I think it's okay for authority to be able to exercise appropriate authority, especially in the hermetic atmosphere of a plane capsule where everybody HAS to behave.

Civilisation is built on social organisation, which involves a social contract, which does not involve childish, egocentric, victim-promoting behaviour. The bigger picture here is that this is an example of social decadence.

Your theory that an elderly man could be legally assaulted because he "asked for it" has to be the most horrible thing I have read on these pages, and there have been many really horrid things said over the years on TVF.

I hope never to respond to anything you have to say ever again.

[manarak]

On 2.5.2017 at 10:54 AM, ddavidovsky said:

Wouldn't have happened if the passenger had complied with instructions, which he was contractually bound to do. He asked for it. Literally. And he wasn't assaulted - the injury was inadvertent due to his own resistance. He even ran through the plane shouting 'kill me', displaying a degree of anti-social, irresponsible, overly-neurotic behaviour which itself is reason enough for his removal.  

 

I think it's okay for authority to be able to exercise appropriate authority, especially in the hermetic atmosphere of a plane capsule where everybody HAS to behave.

Civilisation is built on social organisation, which involves a social contract, which does not involve childish, egocentric, victim-promoting behaviour. The bigger picture here is that this is an example of social decadence.

in theory yes, in practice though disboarding passengers which are already checked in, boarded and seated is a no-no.

 

but whether the airline or the passenger were in the wrong doesn't really matter, because it is in any circumstance the airline's duty to make sure passengers don't get hurt !

 

the plane wasn't even overbooked, they wanted the seats to transport another crew to another airport. everybody is hiding behind "contracts" and "union regulations" or whatever, in practice it should have been possible to transport the crew by booking seats on another company or renting a small airplane if a car was not possible.

 

disboarding seated passengers... no.

[mtls2005]

On 4/29/2017 at 3:47 AM, pegman said:

Better news will be if that thug of a security guard gets at least a couple years in prison for the assault he committed.

 

 

Officer who dragged passenger from United flight was fresh off suspension

 

CHICAGO -- It's been uncovered that the aviation officer who dragged a passenger from his seat on a United Airlines flight last month had previous issues with his conduct.

 

Officer James Long had just finished serving a five-day suspension less than two weeks before the viral incident with Dr. David Dao occurred.

 

Long reportedly violated five department rules in January, including failing to complete a task safely, inattention to duty and unbecoming conduct.

 

http://wgntv.com/2017/05/16/new-details-officer-who-dragged-passenger-from-united-flight-was-fresh-off-suspension/