Stateless/British son of Myanmar mother

[ChiefMonkey]

My son has both a British passport and a 'Thai Alien' ID card (starting 0). The mother is a Myanmar national also with a 'Thai Alien' ID card. We were never married at the amphur. We split up 2 years ago and my son has been living with me in Thailand. Last year, with the mother's consent, I took my son to Europe and when in England obtained a non immigrant O visa. I now want to take my son to study in Europe, but the mother is insisting that our son stays with her parents and attends Thai school until he is 15 so as to obtain Thai citizenship. What are my chances?

[Preacher]

Right now, none. The mother has sole custody over the child and you have no rights until you file to be recognized as the legal father of the child. In that case the court might give you joined custody with the mother. However, without consent of the mother you cannot take the child with you to Europe for a better education. That is something you will have to come to an understanding of with the mother.

 

What you do have going for you is that she wants the child to stay with her parents (and thus not herself). It is natural for a child to stay with (one of) the parents.

[Rhys]

[4evermaat]

What are the steps for myanmar citizensship?

Any particular reason why myanmar citizenship was not applied for?

[ChiefMonkey]

Yes. It would appear that I don't have a leg to stand on legally. The mother is only interested in the Thai citizenship so that he can own property in Thailand and can come and go without the necessity of a visa. I understand that. I will have to try my best to get him into further education in UK/Europe at age 15/16. It's not the end of the world. With regard to Myanmar ID, as I understand, children born to foreigners are not eligible. Thanks for your comments.

[Weddings Parties Anything]

under the thai nationality act, unless one of the parents was a thai national or both parents were thai PR's at birth, there is no way for a child to gain thai nationality.

 

Certainly nothing under the law which grants citizenship automatically at 15. The mother is either misled about the thai nationality act, or having you on...

[ChiefMonkey]

49 minutes ago, Weddings Parties Anything said:

under the thai nationality act, unless one of the parents was a thai national or both parents were thai PR's at birth, there is no way for a child to gain thai nationality.

 

Certainly nothing under the law which grants citizenship automatically at 15. The mother is either misled about the thai nationality act, or having you on...

 

This has come from the Poo Yai Baan, not the mother. Apparently, it's something that the present military government has introduced for ALL children going through full Thai state education. However, they cannot have dual citizenship and must do two years conscription. 

[Weddings Parties Anything]

1 hour ago, ChiefMonkey said:

This has come from the Poo Yai Baan, not the mother. Apparently, it's something that the present military government has introduced for ALL children going through full Thai state education. However, they cannot have dual citizenship and must do two years conscription. 

Very interesting indeed. It was a new ministerial announcement in March on this..

 

http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2560/E/079/10.PDF

 

Its not instantaneous and registration is still required, in some cases to the minister.

[ChiefMonkey]

1 hour ago, Weddings Parties Anything said:

Very interesting indeed. It was a new ministerial announcement in March on this..

 

http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2560/E/079/10.PDF

 

Its not instantaneous and registration is still required, in some cases to the minister.

 

I can read a Thai menu, but that's as far as it goes. Dunno, I've kept out of it because; 1. I don't really understand the process and, 2. I suspect that they haven't informed the Thai authorities that my son already has a British passport.

[Weddings Parties Anything]

41 minutes ago, ChiefMonkey said:

I can read a Thai menu, but that's as far as it goes. Dunno, I've kept out of it because; 1. I don't really understand the process and, 2. I suspect that they haven't informed the Thai authorities that my son already has a British passport.

The rules are pretty clear at least that there must be no evidence of the child using another nationalty. 

 

Back to your original question, the thai citizenship isn't a slam dunk, so if that's the reason your son is still here, then you should perhaps examine the rules to see if your son actually is eligible. 

 

Anyway, all the best with whatever you decide. 

[ChiefMonkey]

22 hours ago, Weddings Parties Anything said:

The rules are pretty clear at least that there must be no evidence of the child using another nationalty. 

 

Back to your original question, the thai citizenship isn't a slam dunk, so if that's the reason your son is still here, then you should perhaps examine the rules to see if your son actually is eligible. 

 

Anyway, all the best with whatever you decide. 

 

We live in a Shan village on the Thai/Burmese border. I suspect that the Poo Yai Baan has a little sideline obtaining Thai citizenship for the locals. If I really wanted to stick my oar in, I could appoint a lawyer and tell the court that the mother is not present in Thailand, she has a false Thai ID card and the local Poo Yai Baan is processing a fraudulent application with regard to my son's 'stateless' Thai ID. However, there might be a personal safety risk and, at the end of the day, would I get custody without a long drawn out court battle? Rarely the white man wins in these parts.

[4evermaat]

On 5/15/2017 at 9:24 AM, ChiefMonkey said:

This has come from the Poo Yai Baan, not the mother. Apparently, it's something that the present military government has introduced for ALL children going through full Thai state education. However, they cannot have dual citizenship and must do two years conscription. 

 

On 5/15/2017 at 10:39 AM, Weddings Parties Anything said:

Very interesting indeed. It was a new ministerial announcement in March on this..

 

http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2560/E/079/10.PDF

 

Its not instantaneous and registration is still required, in some cases to the minister.

 

No doubt they are likely to be stationed in the deep south.

 

But just don't advertise the 2nd citizenship. Or wait until the child is older to get passport.

[claffey]

On 5/16/2017 at 11:28 AM, ChiefMonkey said:

We live in a Shan village on the Thai/Burmese border. I suspect that the Poo Yai Baan has a little sideline obtaining Thai citizenship for the locals. If I really wanted to stick my oar in, I could appoint a lawyer and tell the court that the mother is not present in Thailand, she has a false Thai ID card and the local Poo Yai Baan is processing a fraudulent application with regard to my son's 'stateless' Thai ID. However, there might be a personal safety risk and, at the end of the day, would I get custody without a long drawn out court battle? Rarely the white man wins in these parts.

Actually, from what I've read on this forum courts often side with the 'white man' in custody battles as they know that they can probably offer a better future for the kids. You do need a trustworthy lawyer which is not easy to find...

[happylarry]

1 hour ago, claffey said:

Actually, from what I've read on this forum courts often side with the 'white man' in custody battles as they know that they can probably offer a better future for the kids. You do need a trustworthy lawyer which is not easy to find...

I can vouch for the lawyer my wife works with. My wife is a freelance interpreter and translator and also works with and assists an excellent lawyer. Most of their work is with farangs and they fight tooth and nail to get the results their clients are after.

HL

[brewsterbudgen]

Your son's not stateless - he's British. Just like my son who has a Lao mother and can't have dual citizenship. He has a visa/extension to stay in Thailand, like me and has to get a Lao visa when visiting his grandmother in Laos.