Don’t waste coup – reform country, Yingluck tells junta

[baboon]

7 minutes ago, robblok said:

Not non sense.. if voting is just one part of a democracy.. they vote in north Korea too. Get the picture.. its more then voting there are other rules and YL and her mob broke them. Give me an example of a real democracy that is led by a convicted criminal by proxy and i concede im wrong otherwise accept it was NOT a real democracy. It just had parts of a democracy.

We've been through this: Kim Dae Jung was a convicted criminal and went on to lead South Korea via a democratic election. Who convicted him? Got it in one: The military after a coup led by Pak Chung Hee.

[mommysboy]

11 hours ago, JimGant said:

Really?

Her "impeachment" -- and an end to her ludicrous populist schemes -- was a blessing for Thailand. Anybody really think Thailand would be better off had she not been removed? (bleeding heart liberals need not respond)

Put it this way - there's a low bar!!!!

 

Best be off and tend to my bleeding heart.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

In North Korea people have no choice in who they vote for.  In Thailand in 2011 people had a choice and made their preference clear.  The fact that they chose Thaksin's sister with the expectation that she would be taking advice from Thaksin does not change the fact that they chose who wold represent them in government.

 

Clearly you don't like the results of the 2011 election and the government chosen by the people.  That doesn't make it undemocratic.  The people chose their representatives in government.  It was democratic, by definition.

The voting was democratic.. thats it.. the other principles they just ignored.. hence not a real democracy.  Same like my North Korea example.. they could vote.. so it was democratic (even if they could not choose they could vote). See how that just allowing people to vote does not make it a democracy. You have to uphold the other things too that make it a democracy. That is not letting a convicted criminal lead it by proxy.. , that is not sending other MP's away and then holding secret votes, that is not using others cards to vote in their absence. There are rules to uphold.. the broke them. It was a sham democracy nothing more nothing less. 

[baboon]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

The voting was democratic.. thats it.. the other principles they just ignored.. hence not a real democracy.  Same like my North Korea example.. they could vote.. so it was democratic (even if they could not choose they could vote). See how that just allowing people to vote does not make it a democracy. You have to uphold the other things too that make it a democracy. That is not letting a convicted criminal lead it by proxy.. , that is not sending other MP's away and then holding secret votes, that is not using others cards to vote in their absence. There are rules to uphold.. the broke them. It was a sham democracy nothing more nothing less. 

There are three political parties in the DPRK. Voters can choose who they want.

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, baboon said:

We've been through this: Kim Dae Jung was a convicted criminal and went on to lead South Korea via a democratic election. Who convicted him? Got it in one: The military after a coup led by Pak Chung Hee.

Those were political (made up charges) unlike those of Thaksin who really did break many rules and is a real criminal. Bribing judges is not a minor thing.. forcing banks to loan money and gets billions of losses is not.. one of the others convicted for it is serving 18 years. But hey.. its political.. and he is a good guy.. comparing him to to Kim De Jung is not a fair comparison. But ill let it slide because my question was flawed. I should have asked for real criminals.. nothing like people like Anwar and this guy with trumped up charges.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, baboon said:

There are three political parties in the DPRK. Voters can choose who they want.

Then its a democracy.. see.. they have a choice.. (or maybe its not a democracy even though they can vote and have a choice). Thanks for helping me with my arguments.

[baboon]

Just now, robblok said:

Those were political (made up charges) unlike those of Thaksin who really did break many rules and is a real criminal. Bribing judges is not a minor thing.. forcing banks to loan money and gets billions of losses is not.. one of the others convicted for it is serving 18 years. But hey.. its political.. and he is a good guy.. comparing him to to Kim De Jung is not a fair comparison. But ill let it slide because my question was flawed. I should have asked for real criminals.. nothing like people like Anwar and this guy with trumped up charges.

Good job you like to work out. Moving goalposts is a hefty task.

[baboon]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Then its a democracy.. see.. they have a choice.. (or maybe its not a democracy even though they can vote and have a choice). Thanks for helping me with my arguments.

What?

[heybruce]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

The voting was democratic.. thats it.. the other principles they just ignored.. hence not a real democracy.  Same like my North Korea example.. they could vote.. so it was democratic (even if they could not choose they could vote). See how that just allowing people to vote does not make it a democracy. You have to uphold the other things too that make it a democracy. That is not letting a convicted criminal lead it by proxy.. , that is not sending other MP's away and then holding secret votes, that is not using others cards to vote in their absence. There are rules to uphold.. the broke them. It was a sham democracy nothing more nothing less. 

You are getting incoherent here.  Voting requires a choice.  North Koreans don't have a choice.  Neither do the people in Thailand, now.  However they had a choice in 2011, and the government they elected attempted to give them another choice in 2014. 

 

Get over your obsession with convictions.  Lots of elected leaders around the world have convictions.  So long as the people were allowed a free vote with a choice they were democratically elected.  So long as they stepped aside when they were supposed to and allowed new elections they governed democratically.

[robblok]

Just now, baboon said:

What?

Making my points for me.. just because people can vote and have multiple optioins.. does not makke it a democracy because a democracy has far more principles. That is my point while the likes of heybruce seem to think that just being able to vote and then not caring about the other principles of democracy makes something a real functioning democracy. 

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, baboon said:

Good job you like to work out. Moving goalposts is a hefty task.

Sometimes you have to be able to read what is actually being asked, if your not able then I have to move those goal posts.. its hard to do but with I can do with the extra exercise. 

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

You are getting incoherent here.  Voting requires a choice.  North Koreans don't have a choice.  Neither do the people in Thailand, now.  However they had a choice in 2011, and the government they elected attempted to give them another choice in 2014. 

 

Get over your obsession with convictions.  Lots of elected leaders around the world have convictions.  So long as the people were allowed a free vote with a choice they were democratically elected.  So long as they stepped aside when they were supposed to and allowed new elections they governed democratically.

Yes you make up your own version of a democracy.. have fun with it.

[baboon]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Sometimes you have to be able to read what is actually being asked, if your not able then I have to move those goal posts.. its hard to do but with I can do with the extra exercise. 

You asked the question. I answered it. The answer was of course not to your liking so you invalidated it. No wonder you are content enough with what goes on here.

[baboon]

11 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yes you make up your own version of a democracy.. have fun with it.

Then better it and don't keep telling us what democracy isn't. 

Edited May 22, 2017 by baboon

[heybruce]

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yes you make up your own version of a democracy.. have fun with it.

Check any dictionary you want to.  Democracy is a government chosen by the people.  It can take many forms and it can have many flaws, but so long as it was chosen by the people in a fair election and the people have regular opportunities to choose a new government, or keep the same one, it is democracy.

 

Obviously the current government is not a democracy, and it has all the flaws of corruption and incompetence as the prior democratic government, and many more as well.  Democracy will not return to Thailand for a long time because the military knows the people will never choose a government it likes in a fair election.

 

 

[Reigntax]

8 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

An elected government that was in caretaker mode, suffering under mass public protests and incapable or unwilling to do anything about extreme violence and murder being aimed at the protesters and also affecting innocent by-standers.

 

And all because someone wanted a whitewash amnesty and to put himself above and beyond the law.

 

Amazing though how many so called journalists do say the Yingluck was removed in a coup. Just like they do her brother without noting he has resigned as PM, resigned as caretaker PM and then seized back the caretaker PM role with no authority, election, anyone but his own approval.

 

 

 

"And all because someone wanted a whitewash amnesty and to put himself above and beyond the law."

 

Sounds exactly like what Prayuth and military granted themselves and after 3 years still exists. Although at least YS tried to use the parliament and not guns.

[Chris Lawrence]

Love her or hate her, she is speaking up and doing something that the current regime despise. The questioning is on the right track. This was supposed to be over in about 12 months, but still the vultures are picking over the carcass.

[wakeupplease]

Yes you make up your own version of a democracy.. have fun with it

 

Wrong again as usual

 

The majority decide Democracy not an individual and certainly not one dressed in green who then goes on to give himself and a few hangers on immunity.

 

Some people on here want to come clean and admit what they are up to or at least take a trip into the real world.

 

I wonder what a few on here have been promised? to cover what they are running away from, it must be very bad.

[wakeupplease]

Credit where credit is due she stands up to them, me I would have been off put my feet up and waited for time to pass as it will, wait and see.

 

Problem here is if you get liked, there are some that suffer from the Jealousy syndrome.

Edited May 22, 2017 by wakeupplease

[owl sees all]

8 hours ago, heybruce said:

  Letting the people choose who will govern them is the very definition of democracy.

I like your thinking on this sir.

 

Democracy is a two edged sword. It is being able to vote for a person (or party) who will govern the country on behalf of, and for the benefit of, the people. And the country then respecting the vote (outcome) and allowing the person (or party) to get on with doing what they promised they would.

Edited May 22, 2017 by owl sees all
syntax error

[maewang99]

consumer sentiment. yeah yeah yeah. but in economics, investing and business you ****do**** have to track a lot more than just that one aspect, huh?
 

actually..... NOT blaming...... or ****crediting****.... ahem ahem....... ANY government administration for the macro economy... based on just one simple aspect of it.... would be a much better starting point for reconciliation... not more nonsense talk.

 

there is too much of that in this world now.

 

analogy....... USA..... many politicos credit Reagan's debt spending.... but conveniently ignore 80 million "baby boomers".. both sexes..... all 80 million unlike prior generations.... entering their prime working years in the 1980's..... the best educated generation ever..... as well as deregulation during the Carter administration.. of course!

 

we sure like simple narratives, eh?

 

so what does she mean by "reform"?

 

for instance.. the really Big Whopper.....

 

  does "reform" mean or include decentralization of the public school system?

 

can she even say that word publicly?

decentralization.

 

no. they always have to say "reform".

only. or more money.

 

Edited May 23, 2017 by maewang99

[brucec64]

Abysmal failure ! Prevented mass demonstrations is the limit of its achievements


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

And according to Suthep, the mass demonstrations were orchestrated with the intent to create an environment conducive to a coup. So not really an achievement to put out a fire that you started yourself...

Sent from my SM-J710F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Smarter Than You]

8 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Democracy is not simply an election. It is all the things that follow from that election.

 

Transparency in government

No nepotism

Upholding the rules of law in ALL cases

Open and honest government

Morality

No corruption

 

This government is not really any better or any worse than previous governments going back to the coup of 1932.

 

In the UK, the country that I came from democracy has been an ongoing process for the last 1,200 years. Why do you expect Thailand to have progressed very far in only 85 years.

 

We also had a military coup back in 1642 by Oliver Cromwell who was also a signatory on the document condemning King Charles 1st to death. Forrtunately we moved on from those days but that was some 400 years after the Magna Carta and nearly 400 years ago.

 

Let's see how much of this we can tick off under the Junta shall we?

 

Transparency in government - No

No nepotism - No

Upholding the rules of law in ALL cases - No

Open and honest government - No

Morality - No

No corruption - No

(Lets not forget) Elections - No

 

The only reason Thai democracy has not progressed faster over the preceding 85 years is because of the coups.

The number of coups and the quality of the democracy are inversely proportional.

If you keep having coups you will not have a quality democracy.

By supporting the coup you are denying democracy the chance to take root and grow

However, I don't think any of this bothers you at all,  because clearly you don't care about democracy.

You just use the straw man argument that Thai democracy was no good as a front to hide who you really are and what you really support.

Terms such as fascism, bigotry, racism, self-loathing, spitefulness, vindictiveness, jealousy, failure, envy and hate all spring to mind

 

Are you happy with how your life has panned out, my guess is you're not - thus your willingness for to see others suffer and be denied.

Poor little man.

 

[Smarter Than You]

8 hours ago, robblok said:

The voting was democratic.. thats it.. the other principles they just ignored.. hence not a real democracy.  Same like my North Korea example.. they could vote.. so it was democratic (even if they could not choose they could vote). See how that just allowing people to vote does not make it a democracy. You have to uphold the other things too that make it a democracy. That is not letting a convicted criminal lead it by proxy.. , that is not sending other MP's away and then holding secret votes, that is not using others cards to vote in their absence. There are rules to uphold.. the broke them. It was a sham democracy nothing more nothing less. 

And how is the Junta going with these "other principles"

 

Much, much worse than PTP, that's how they're going.

 

The question is why do you not hold this against them as you do against PTP?

Why the free pass for the people who have made Thailand LESS democratic when you are here spouting off about wanting Thailand MORE democratic.

 

Do you know what hypocrite means, if not that's fine, just go look in the mirror.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Smarter Than You said:

And how is the Junta going with these "other principles"

 

Much, much worse than PTP, that's how they're going.

 

The question is why do you not hold this against them as you do against PTP?

Why the free pass for the people who have made Thailand LESS democratic when you are here spouting off about wanting Thailand MORE democratic.

 

Do you know what hypocrite means, if not that's fine, just go look in the mirror.

I hold it against the junta too.. but people who defend the PTP only with they voted so its ok get this reply from me. Also the junta should be temporarily.. the PTP has been here in one or an other incarnation for a long time and they constantly break the rules. The only part of a democracy that they got right is getting voted in.. after that it stops. 

[robblok]

9 hours ago, heybruce said:

Check any dictionary you want to.  Democracy is a government chosen by the people.  It can take many forms and it can have many flaws, but so long as it was chosen by the people in a fair election and the people have regular opportunities to choose a new government, or keep the same one, it is democracy.

 

Obviously the current government is not a democracy, and it has all the flaws of corruption and incompetence as the prior democratic government, and many more as well.  Democracy will not return to Thailand for a long time because the military knows the people will never choose a government it likes in a fair election.

 

 

Sure if you keep believing that you might believe that Thaksin was honest too and that santa exists too. I am sorry to burst your bubble voting is just one of the principles of a democracy. If you ignore all other principles and break then its not fit to be called a democracy.

 

The current government has had far less corruption scandals then the PTP and has gone after far more corruption than the PTP ever did. Perfect.. no by not going after they PM his brother and nephew they lost a lot of credit.. but they did go after others and a lot of cases got solved. Without it the fake G2G deals that benefited the top ministers in YL her government (with YL saying there was no corruption) would never have happend. 

 

The current government is no democracy and should leave ASAP, but its better than the PTP in many fields and even though you guys deny it has had accomplishments.. minivans that have GPS in it and drive better.. beaches better managed, no street violence, No convicted criminal running a government from afar paying off the PM's and controlling them having them serve only his interests (his amnesty is why we had the coup.. it made it possible..it made it easy we might have had an coup for an other reason but it would not have been widely supported.;. it might not have happened but this amnesty brought together all people who were against the criminal from Dubai)... No off book 500 billion loss.. o 2.5 trillion off book loan from the Chinese. I could go on forever telling what was wrong with the PTP and what the junta did. In reality the PTP did almost nothing. Tablets that were not as promised.. rice program that bankrupted the country and brought farmers to kill themselves when miss airhead did not make provisions for payment. ect ect. Many of the crimes of the red shirts would not have been investigated. Charlem..actually protected the red shirt asassins and wanted the protesters to go away.... we cant protect you (of course not we are the ones behind the attacks we let slip the dogs of war)

 

The junta has its bad things too.. especially the control off the press and others is bad. Freedom of speech has taken a hit.. Nepotism still exists.. some corruption scandals too be it on a smaller scale. They certainly did not deliver all that was promised. I want them gone too, hopefully the controls that are put in place help to keep the PTP in check if they are in government. IF the PTP just follows the rules and works for the people there should be no problem.. but i doubt they will.. seen what they wanted before.. just an amnesty for Thaksin and to hell with the people.. risk it all for one man instead of helping the people. 

[MaxLee]

Well, looks who still isn't in puppet jail.....

[ResandePohm]

20 hours ago, JAG said:

Yes, but that 70%  of the vote doesn't really count, because, umh,err,umh, well it doesn't count because they umh, voted for their own interests, err, they are not really  qualified to decide who they should vote for,  umh, they are not ready for democracy anyway,, they don't live in Bangkok, they were told to vote for the "good people" and they didn't; oh well, i'll leave a gap for you to insert your own reason____________________________________.

Their votes were bought through populist policy. Do you call that democracy?

 

[YetAnother]

well i DO like the idea of 'wasted coup' coming up in public

[ResandePohm]

17 hours ago, Smarter Than You said:

Nice try, how about this - 

 

The elected by a huge majority despite the system being gerrymandered by a previous couple of coups (one military, one judicial) and in spite of this overwhelming popularity she still did the right thing by disbanding parliament and calling for early elections when a minority mob (military + elites + a few southern rubber farmers) took to the streets breaking countless laws causing chaos and death only to be removed as caretaker PM by corrupted courts for nonsense reasons (much like Samak and the cooking show) pot calling the UNELECTED kettle black.

A popularistic twist on the truth (fake alternativee news). Do you work for Trump by any chance.

Edited May 23, 2017 by ResandePohm