British police says responding to serious incident at Manchester Arena

[Grouse]

Kevkev1888 posted a bit of Northern Soul above

 

The Manchester male voice choir were providing a splendid rendition of "you can stick your ******* ISIS up your a*rs" Terrific balance of tenors and bass!

 

Sadly, just as with some of the greatest pieces of opera, the phraseology can be a little difficult to grasp.

[Grouse]

Just now, dick dasterdly said:

They don't frighten me either - I worked in the West End of London during the height of the IRA terrorist campaign !

 

But "eye for eye, tooth for a tooth" against an entire community - most of whom are completely innocent??  It makes no sense whatsoever, particularly if capable of thinking beyond the immediate 'vengeful satisfaction'.....

 

I'd be v suprised if this sort of retributory action resulted in anything other than causing a rise in the number of extremists - amongst whom there will be a few more willing to carry out terrorist attacks.

Well, I don't want to labour the point but I think the local mosques are crucial.

 

The Imams provide spiritual support

 

The rest of the community provide physical support

 

I think its a balanced response

 

No physical harm to anyone

 

[brewsterbudgen]

Where does it say they were arrested?

I read it on the Guardian website but it was reported on CNN, Fox and Sky News this morning. The father was arrested immediately after his press briefing where he declared his son innocent.

[Jim1000]

Hmm  - thought Tony and George went to war all those  years ago to keep us safe from all this .

[Ron19]

A number of off topic posts have been removed.

 

Please keep on topic which is .

• British police says responding to serious incident at Manchester Arena.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Well, I don't want to labour the point but I think the local mosques are crucial.

 

The Imams provide spiritual support

 

The rest of the community provide physical support

 

I think its a balanced response

 

No physical harm to anyone

 

In this case, the reports are that the friends, family and imans warned the police and anti terrorist line that he posed a danger and was talking about a suicide mission. So the local mosque could have been crucial, provided the information received was used.

[Flustered]

10 hours ago, simple1 said:

Off Topic. However, again you are one of the people talking about a very conservative version of Islam /Sharia Law.  I personally know many Thai Muslim families in Pattaya over the past twenty years, some of whom have inter married with Buddhists with minimal issues. Most of the Thai Muslims I know attend a mosque at least once a week on a Friday,. they do not view themselves as Muslim in name only. As Thaihome has pointed out there are a number of posters who talk about Muslims as though they are all the same in their religious and cultural practices which is absolute nonsense. 

What you do not say is that these people who marry Muslims then have to convert to Islam.

[Mosha]

In this case, the reports are that the friends, family and imans warned the police and anti terrorist line that he posed a danger and was talking about a suicide mission. So the local mosque could have been crucial, provided the information received was used.

A fellow student of the POS warned police 2 years ago, that he was going round saying being a suicide bomber was an honourable thing to do.

Sent from my iris 505 using Tapatalk

[AGareth2]

3 minutes ago, Flustered said:

this war against Islamic extremists must be led by the Islamic community in the UK

well said

[simple1]

Just now, lovelomsak said:

Just out of curiousity what assumptions did I express? I mentioned posts that is not assumptions. And in post344 you say you dislike generalizations then in post 501 you state you made one. So you can post generalizations but pursue others for doing the same. Seems odd to me but I do not judge

Look up forum rules on what is / is not permissible

[lovelomsak]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

Look up forum rules on what is / is not permissible

Thanks I will do that right after you answer my question ok.I feel that is with in the rules right.I am very happy to work within the rules I am not hear to make problems or troll just like straight honest posts.

[thaihome]

27 minutes ago, Flustered said:

What you do not say is that these people who marry Muslims then have to convert to Islam.

You must be baptised Catholic to be married in a Catholic Church.  I believe the Church of England requires you to be a member of the Parish and Banns to have read in order to get married in the church.

 

From what I saw in the two muslim marriage that included non muslims,  the required conversion to Islam was much less involved then either Catholic or CoE conversion.

 

Again, people's opinion of Islam seems to be based on listening to the ranting of a minority sect. That is like basing a opinion of Christianity solely on listening to Westboro Baptist Church.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church

 

TH 

[lovelomsak]

1 minute ago, thaihome said:

You must be baptised Catholic to be married in a Catholic Church.  I believe the Church of England requires you to be a member of the Parish and Banns to have read in order to get married in the church.

 

From what I saw in the two muslim marriage that included non muslims,  the required conversion to Islam was much less involved then either Catholic or CoE conversion.

 

Again, people's opinion of Islam seems to be based on listening to the ranting of a minority sect. That is like basing a opinion of Christianity solely on listening to Westboro Baptist Church.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church

 

TH 

I really like this post. You confirmed Flustered post but at the same time showed how other religions have their issues too.Open honest ,but letting it be known religions in mass push their beliefs inside a marriage..

[Grouse]

This thread is about the slaughter of the innocents.

 

Who gives a damn about who can marry whom?

 

Just listen to a theater nurse on BBC Radio 4 who has been helping with grotesque multiple wounds. She's been in nursing for years and this is easily the worst she's ever seen.

 

There will be retribution for this.

[stevenl]

23 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

well said

Like warning police about potential threats you mean?

[lovelomsak]

Just now, Grouse said:

This thread is about the slaughter of the innocents.

 

Who gives a damn about who can marry whom?

 

Just listen to a theater nurse on BBC Radio 4 who has been helping with grotesque multiple wounds. She's been in nursing for years and this is easily the worst she's ever seen.

 

There will be retribution for this.

you are right I for one apologise for getting of topic.

[thaihome]

9 minutes ago, Grouse said:

This thread is about the slaughter of the innocents.

 

Who gives a damn about who can marry whom?

 

Just listen to a theater nurse on BBC Radio 4 who has been helping with grotesque multiple wounds. She's been in nursing for years and this is easily the worst she's ever seen.

 

There will be retribution for this.

The point is to show the irrational fear and hatred that is being expressed in this thread. The posters doing so, this one in particular  who advocates wholesale demolishing of muslims houses (what if a Christian lived next door?) simply you for living next door to a radical,  are helping the the terrorists achieve their goals as if they were members of the terrorists organization themselves.

TH 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, thaihome said:

The point is to show the irrational fear and hatred that is being expressed in this thread. The posters doing so, this one in particular  who advocates wholesale demolishing of muslims houses (what if a Christian lived next door?) simply you for living next door to a radical,  are helping the the terrorists achieve their goals as if they were members of the terrorists organization themselves.

TH 

Are there Christian Churches in Muslim countries.....Sure I don't know, but I think not...If not, why not...?

[Grouse]

20 minutes ago, thaihome said:

The point is to show the irrational fear and hatred that is being expressed in this thread. The posters doing so, this one in particular  who advocates wholesale demolishing of muslims houses (what if a Christian lived next door?) simply you for living next door to a radical,  are helping the the terrorists achieve their goals as if they were members of the terrorists organization themselves.

TH 

I don't see any fear anywhere (except on the faces children trying to escape this atrocity)

 

What do you suggest would be rational hatred?

 

My point is that it is becoming increasingly clear that communities are providing succor and support

 

I did indeed suggest, immediately after the event, that a wrecking ball be taken to the neighborhood. I have since moderated that to demolishing the mosque used by the perpetrators and their supporters. A reasonable response I feel.

 

I'm please to hear that PREVENT will be beefed up and much more resources poured in to surveillance.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-40027796

 

14 years old. Dead. What would be a rational response????

 

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Grouse

[onthesoi]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

Are there Christian Churches in Muslim countries.....Sure I don't know, but I think not...If not, why not...?

 

Before the invasion of Iraq there were plenty of christian churches, there were 1 million christians in a population of 26 million, Saddams own minister was a catholic, indeed christian were living in Iraq some 2000 years......then the US turned Iraq into an extremists wet dream and suddenly it was very unsafe to be a christian in Iraq.

 

See, thats what happens when you get all your information about muslims from edl pamphlets... You end up being schooled by someone who spent 60 secs on google.

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

I don't see any fear anywhere (except on the faces children trying to escape this atrocity)

 

What do you suggest would be rational hatred?

 

My point is that it is becoming increasingly clear that communities are providing succor and support

 

I did indeed suggest, immediately after the event, that a wrecking ball be taken to the neighborhood. I have since moderated that to demolishing the mosque used by the perpetrators and their supporters. A reasonable response I feel.

 

I'm please to hear that PREVENT will be beefed up and much more resources poured in to surveillance.

 

 

Again, because you ignore the fact, you want to demolish the mosque whose iman warned the police about this guy?

[Thairealist]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

In this case, the reports are that the friends, family and imans warned the police and anti terrorist line that he posed a danger and was talking about a suicide mission. So the local mosque could have been crucial, provided the information received was used.

Good point. but lets not get sidetracked away from those who are actually responsible. Same as when I take an International flight, I am requested to be at the airport 3hrs before take off, when really one hour should be sufficient. Do I blame the airport or the airline, NO.

I blame the terrorist, who are  of what religion?   

[thaihome]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Are there Christian Churches in Muslim countries.....Sure I don't know, but I think not...If not, why not...?

I think you maybe asking if there are Christian Churches in Arab countries (less then 5% of 1.8 billion muslims in the world)  because in the largest muslim country (13% of total)  there are thousands.  

 

Around 10% of Indonesia's total population are Christians, and there are approximately 61,000 churches across Indonesia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_List_of_church_buildings_in_Indonesia

 

Egypt also has large Christian population with thousands of churchs,  many very ancient.  ISIS has declared war on these in an effort to destabilize Egypt. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/04/why-isis-declared-war-on-egypts-christians/522453/

 

So, what was your point? Oh yeah, you don't know.

TH 

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Again, because you ignore the fact, you want to demolish the mosque whose iman warned the police about this guy?

Did you read what I posted?

 

Who said the Imam informed the police?

 

 

[thaihome]

17 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I don't see any fear anywhere (except on the faces children trying to escape this atrocity)

 

What do you suggest would be rational hatred?

 

My point is that it is becoming increasingly clear that communities are providing succor and support

 

I did indeed suggest, immediately after the event, that a wrecking ball be taken to the neighborhood. I have since moderated that to demolishing the mosque used by the perpetrators and their supporters. A reasonable response I feel.

 

I'm please to hear that PREVENT will be beefed up and much more resources poured in to surveillance.

 

 

Do you advocate demolishing the place of worship of any murderer, or just muslim murderers?

TH 

[transam]

8 minutes ago, thaihome said:

I think you maybe asking if there are Christian Churches in Arab countries (less then 5% of 1.8 billion muslims in the world)  because in the largest muslim country (13% of total)  there are thousands.  

 

 

 

 

Egypt also has large Christian population with thousands of churchs,  many very ancient.  ISIS has declared war on these in an effort to destabilize Egypt. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/04/why-isis-declared-war-on-egypts-christians/522453/

 

So, what was your point? Oh yeah, you don't know.

TH 

That is why I asked....Thank you.......I am enlightened...

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Did you read what I posted?

 

Who said the Imam informed the police?

 

 

Iman, friends and family informed the police and called the anti terrorist line (I did not even know that existed). That is all according to The Telegraph, not known for their sensationalism, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/24/security-services-missed-five-opportunities-stop-manchester/?_sp=3d2a4ad9-fa4d-4e51-805a-217517fcc57d.1495669930587

 

The Independent confirms similar, http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/manchester-attack-bombs-found-mi5-arrests-latest-news-updates-a7754486.html?_sp=3d2a4ad9-fa4d-4e51-805a-217517fcc57d.1495669951044

Edited May 25, 2017 by stevenl

[thaihome]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Did you read what I posted?

 

Who said the Imam informed the police?

 

 

Would it matter. You would have already torn the place down. You are advocating mob justice which is against everything a western democracy stands for. You are working for the terrorists. 

TH 

[stevenl]

14 minutes ago, Thairealist said:

Good point. but lets not get sidetracked away from those who are actually responsible. Same as when I take an International flight, I am requested to be at the airport 3hrs before take off, when really one hour should be sufficient. Do I blame the airport or the airline, NO.

I blame the terrorist, who are  of what religion?   

It is clear the terrorist is to blame. But analyzing what happened can prevent future attacks, so I would not call it sidetracking, despite your attempt to blame the muslim community.

[Thairealist]

4 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

Before the invasion of Iraq there were plenty of christian churches, there were 1 million christians in a population of 26 million, Saddams own minister was a catholic, indeed christian were living in Iraq some 2000 years......then the US turned Iraq into an extremists wet dream and suddenly it was very unsafe to be a christian in Iraq.

 

See, thats what happens when you get all your information about muslims from edl pamphlets... You end up being schooled by someone who spent 60 secs on google.

Are you saying that the Christians in Iraq where part of the so called coalition that invaded Iraq, and therefore deserved what has since befallen them. Or would you say that they have been subject to rape and murder by Muslims , for failing to convert to Islam.