British police says responding to serious incident at Manchester Arena

[vogie]

14 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

Using the dead bodies as a soap box for islamaphobic rantings, including calling for mosques and entire communities to be demolished and their food to be banned isn't showing respect for the dead either Vogie... So you might want to go back and revise the posts you've been liking.

Are you stalking me, checking what posts I like. Answer the question, do you think its ok to slaughter animals by slitting their throats?

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, thaihome said:

Can you point out a single post where someone "apologized" for the attack? All I have said, as well as others, is an irrational hatred  of 1.8 billion muslims,  of which you were amoung the most vehement and irrational, does nothing except play into exactly what the terrorists were trying to accomplish.  

 

It is a criminal act, let your justice system work and stop scapegoating people that you have absolutely no proof helped or even condoned the attack. 

TH  

Maybe English is not your first language? An apologist is someone who justifies something. In this case the slaughter of teenage girls. What possible justification can there be for that? Those attitudes need to be rooted out.

 

I am vehement but in no way irrational. My concern is that such appalling acts can be condoned by certain people. It is clear to me that perpetrators are assisted by their communities and responsibility is therefore mutual.

 

When those "scapegoated" standup and decry such an atrocity, I may moderate my stance. I shan't hold my breath.

[Mosha]

As soon as the family left the UK, their right to remain should have been revoked. Gaddafi had this lot banged to rights.

Sent from my iris 505 using Tapatalk

[Wilsonandson]

[onthesoi]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Answer the question, do you think its ok to slaughter animals by slitting their throats?

 

I'm guessing you only selectivly care about animal cruelty insofar as it pertains to Muslims, not for eg battery hens and kfc etc ;

 

However, you are firmly off topic now so I suggest you start a new thread if you want to discus this, although prepare to be comprehensivly defeated on the subject and your hypocracy and Islamaphobia laid bare for all the world to see.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

I'm guessing you only selectivly care about animal cruelty insofar as it pertains to Muslims, not for eg battery hens and kfc etc ;

 

However, you are firmly off topic now so I suggest you start a new thread if you want to discus this, although prepare to be comprehensivly defeated on the subject and your hypocracy and Islamaphobia laid bare for all the world to see.

You can't answer, I totally understand. 

[onthesoi]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Maybe English is not your first language? An apologist is someone who justifies something. In this case the slaughter of teenage girls. What possible justification can there be for that? Those attitudes need to be rooted out.

 

I am vehement but in no way irrational. My concern is that such appalling acts can be condoned by certain people. It is clear to me that perpetrators are assisted by their communities and responsibility is therefore mutual.

 

When those "scapegoated" standup and decry such an atrocity, I may moderate my stance. I shan't hold my breath.

Are you going to reference the posts you're talking about or not.

 

You seem to be claiming these attacks happened randomly in a vaccum...while completely ignoring the millions of innocent Muslims murdered by the west over the last 3 decades and counting as if it doesnt have any relevance as to the motives of the terrorists.....god forbid reason and facts interrupt your vitreloic, Islamaphobic, attention seeking rants against all Muslims.

 

How many terror attacks on Spain since the Madrid bombing when they subsequently pulled out of: The War On Terror?..... Not exactly rocket science or maybe it is for some.

[onthesoi]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

You can't answer, I totally understand. 

 

Your question is irrelevant, off topic and infantile.

 

However, I have offered to answer your question if you create a new thread on the subject, but Im guessing your too scared now to that now.

[onthesoi]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

You can't answer, I totally understand. 

 

Your question is irrelevant, off topic and infantile.

 

However, I have offered to answer your question if you create a new thread on the subject, but Im guessing you're too scared now to that now.

[onthesoi]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

I am sure that after this and other tragedies, anyone seeming to support what has happened or defending the actions of the terrorists will find that the security agencies monitor forums and they  have had their ISP addresses noted and details taken. Even hiding behind a virtual ISP address is not secure.

 

Maybe a call soon for some of these apologists?

Bring it on....

[vogie]

Just now, onthesoi said:

 

Your question is irrelevant, off topic and infantile.

 

However, I have offered to answer your question if you create a new thread on the subject, but Im guessing your too scared now to that now.

Your arrogance is greater than your love of muslims. Do not forget we are talking about murders that happened in Manchester. I hold my hand up and say I abhor Islam, but that does not make me racist in any way. Are you blind to the suffering that has been put on the people of Manchester?

You are baiting now, using expressions like "are you scared" believe you me, I am not.

[thaihome]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Maybe English is not your first language? An apologist is someone who justifies something. In this case the slaughter of teenage girls. What possible justification can there be for that? Those attitudes need to be rooted out.

 

I am vehement but in no way irrational. My concern is that such appalling acts can be condoned by certain people. It is clear to me that perpetrators are assisted by their communities and responsibility is therefore mutual.

 

When those "scapegoated" standup and decry such an atrocity, I may moderate my stance. I shan't hold my breath.

OK,  again, show a post that someone "justified" the attack. Nobody is justify the attack, the point is your reaction by lumping all Muslims into the same category and advocating mob violence against them is exactly what the terrorists are trying to accomplish.  You are working for the terrorists and doing a very good job of it. 

 

The perpetrator is dead, his supporters are being rounded up, it would have been good if the authorities had got hold of them before the attack, but that may be the price we pay for living in a world with democratic justice system.

 

You can't round people up for being  young male muslims because a small minority want to do harm. All you can do is give the criminal justice system the resources to fight it legally and at the same time work to reduce the environment that makes actions such as this an attractive alternative to assimilation into greater society.  

 

Demolishing housing of neighbors or tearing down place of worship only alienates people more. Your ignorant rants against Islam and immigration are just the same as the ignorant rants by the radical imams preaching against the west.  The appeal is the same, hate and fear.

 

None of this is a justification for the this attack or any other one, it is simply trying to put rational intellectual thought into the problem. You don't fight hate and ignorance with hate and ignorance, it never has worked and never will. 

TH 

[thaihome]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

... I hold my hand up and say I abhor Islam, but that does not make me racist in any way... 

No, it does not make you a racist mainly because Islam is not a race it's a religion of some 1.8 billion people spread pretty much all over the world. What it does make you is an irrational,  illogical, unreasonable and possibly a bigoted person highly susceptible to hate mongering demogugary that allows the actions of a extremely small minority of muslims to color your opinion of 1.8 billion people.

TH  

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, thaihome said:

No, it does not make you a racist mainly because Islam is not a race it's a religion of some 1.8 billion people spread pretty much all over the world. What it does make you is an irrational,  illogical, unreasonable and possibly a bigoted person highly susceptible to hate mongering demogugary that allows the actions of a extremely small minority of muslims to color your opinion of 1.8 billion people.

TH  

Contraire contraire, it makes me someone who is wise to what is going on in Europe, by the way how is not liking a religion, hate mongering? I guess by the way you spell colour, you are not British, do you know what is happening in towns like Manchester, Bradford, Luton, London, Blackburn and many more. 

[thaihome]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Contraire contraire, it makes me someone who is wise to what is going on in Europe, by the way how is not liking a religion, hate mongering? I guess by the way you spell colour, you are not British, do you know what is happening in towns like Manchester, Bradford, Luton, London, Blackburn and many more. 

So you have now revised "abhor" to "not liking" and claim it's not hate mongering. Moving the goal post there a bit aren't you?

TH 

 

ab·hor

abˈhôr,əbˈhôr/

verb

formal

1. regard with disgust and hatred.
    

   synonyms:

   detest, hate, loathe, despise, execrate, regard with disgust, shrink from, recoil from, shudder at; formalabominate

 

[cmsally]

2 hours ago, RickBradford said:

There is a good article published today, written by a British Libyan who describes exactly how someone who has been given refuge by a country can be taught to hate it to the extent of blowing up children at a pop concert. Well worth a read.

 

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/why-salman-abedi-grew-to-hate-us/19866#.WSbIxGiLTIV

 

In summary, he attributes this attack, previous attacks and future attacks to how young British Muslims are caught between Islamists who prey on them and a chattering class that refuses to talk about the Islamist problem for fear of "making a scene".

 

In other words, those who try to prevent the words "Islamic terrorism" to be spoken, are sacrificing lives on the altar of political correctness.

Great article .

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, thaihome said:

So you have now revised "abhor" to "not liking" and claim it's not hate mongering. Moving the goal post there a bit aren't you?

TH 

 

ab·hor

abˈhôr,əbˈhôr/

verb

formal

1. regard with disgust and hatred.
    

   synonyms:

   detest, hate, loathe, despise, execrate, regard with disgust, shrink from, recoil from, shudder at; formalabominate

 

When people start to become pedantic, its time to finish this discussion, before the mods do, which they will anyway. Look I don't like Islam, you do, never the twain shall meet, we will never agree, so better we ignore each other. 

[Grouse]

55 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

Are you going to reference the posts you're talking about or not.

 

You seem to be claiming these attacks happened randomly in a vaccum...while completely ignoring the millions of innocent Muslims murdered by the west over the last 3 decades and counting as if it doesnt have any relevance as to the motives of the terrorists.....god forbid reason and facts interrupt your vitreloic, Islamaphobic, attention seeking rants against all Muslims.

 

How many terror attacks on Spain since the Madrid bombing when they subsequently pulled out of: The War On Terror?..... Not exactly rocket science or maybe it is for some.

OK, Saladin, we're quite upset at the slaughter of teenage girls. ISIS  state that their warrior attacked the Crusaders where they gather.

 

Not worth saying anymore. Good night everybody.?

[thaihome]

11 minutes ago, vogie said:

When people start to become pedantic, its time to finish this discussion, before the mods do, which they will anyway. Look I don't like Islam, you do, never the twain shall meet, we will never agree, so better we ignore each other. 

Your response sums up the problem with discussions like this. Where did I say I "liked" Islam? You are putting words in my mouth I  did not say.  

 

I personally have no feelings either way about Islam, it's a religion and I feel no affection for any religion.  History shows religion or the hate of different religon is mostly used as a political tool by demogues to increase their power through hate and fear.   What I don't agree with is taring 1.8 billion people all over the world with the same brush due to the abhorrent behavior of a very small minority.   

 

This only leads to more hate and more violence.  Go after the criminals,  but don't foster hate against all just because they follow the same religion.  This is a specfic sect of Islam, rejected by the vast majority, with a following of a few thousand at most. 

 

As has been shown in several links posted in this thread, the Muslim world is agast at this atrocity and is speaking out. That is majority. 

TH 

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Donald Trump forceful call "Drive them out if this earth" was reported recently (in all caps). Take a look at Israel, millions of hostiles at bay, recent terror much lower than Europe/UK .

The populations of Muslim males between 18-40 or so must be vetted for clearance or Preventative detention until the UK can figure out "what the hell is going on".


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[thaihome]

3 minutes ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

Donald Trump forceful call "Drive them out if this earth" was reported recently (in all caps). Take a look at Israel, millions of hostiles at bay, recent terror much lower than Europe/UK .

The populations of Muslim males between 18-40 or so must be vetted for clearance or Preventative detention until the UK can figure out "what the hell is going on".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why is it that people believe that resorting to authoritarian undemocratic measures are a valid response to attacks by authoritarian undemocratic groups?

 

Isn't it at that point just a war between two authoritarian undemocratic powers with both sides in the wrong?

 

TH 

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Is this an apology for terror or the dumbest thing I have read online today?

Next time the (British) Royal Airforce bombs a music concert full of pre-teen girls let us know with a post and link. What rubbish!


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[vogie]

6 minutes ago, thaihome said:

Your response sums up the problem with discussions like this. Where did I say I "liked" Islam? You are putting words in my mouth I  did not say.  

 

I personally have no feelings either way about Islam, it's a religion and I feel no affection for any religion.  History shows religion or the hate of different religon is mostly used as a political tool by demogues to increase their power through hate and fear.   What I don't agree with is taring 1.8 billion people all over the world with the same brush due to the abhorrent behavior of a very small minority.   

 

This only leads to more hate and more violence.  Go after the criminals,  but don't foster hate against all just because they follow the same religion.  This is a specfic sect of Islam, rejected by the vast majority, with a following of a few thousand at most. 

 

As has been shown in several links posted in this thread, the Muslim world is agast at this atrocity and is speaking out. That is majority. 

TH 

Because I don't like/abhor Islam you are very quick on the defence of Islam, I will ask you again, are you british, it has relevance to know what is happening to our country, I was brought up in a town in West Yorkshire where I experienced the influx of the muslim population. In my school in the 50/60s there were no muslims, now there are no indigenous Brits in those schools, even the the teachers are muslim and are not teaching what they should be teaching.

I do not foster hate againgst anyone, I have some very good Pakistani friends in the UK, but I do not like Islam. I have read some of the 'holy book' and quite frankly it scares me to death. Someone practicing a religion that is well over a 1000 years and follows a book that has never been revised in all that time, needs to ask themselves some question, but they don't. I won't go into detail about the scriptures, but for a logical thinking person, there is a lot to be asked.

They are the ones preaching hate about us non believers, I think sometimes its time wake up and smell the coffee.

Not all the muslim world is aghast, many are rejoicing!

Please ask yourself if you had a daughter, son or any relative killed by an idiot whose family we let into this country to escape the Gaddafi regime, would you still be so liberal in your views?

[thaihome]

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

...

Not all the muslim world is aghast, many are rejoicing!

Please ask yourself if you had a daughter, son or any relative killed by an idiot whose family we let into this country to escape the Gaddafi regime, would you still be so liberal in your views?

I did not realize that being against hate mongering demogugary was a "liberal view". I always believed it was a rational expression of support of deliberative democracy and resistance to scapegoating against entire populations of "others" ( which you so vividly describe).

 

My mistake. Time to end this discussion where we are actually discussing different topics.

?

TH 

[jak2002003]

On ‎24‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 11:13 AM, Kadilo said:

You might get a bit more credibility if you could even spell racist before you start speaking about other people's intelligence etc .


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You might also get a bit more credibility if you could spot your mistake in your sentence.  Also you might be seen as less petty and boring.  After all this is not a spelling or grammar thread.  If you want to start one up then feel free.

 

And, are you hinting that you don't agree with me?  Are you one of those people who thinks Muslim's are a race? 

 

 

[Scott]

As has been suggested by more than one poster, I think it is best to end the off-topic remarks about Islam in general and stick to the topic.

 

Comparisons are acceptable, but a few members have taken this to the point of being off-topic.

 

 

[BangkokNicky]

The British government operated an "open door" policy that allowed Libyan exiles and British-Libyan citizens to join the 2011 uprising that toppled Muammar Gaddafi even though some had been subject to counter-terrorism control orders, Middle East Eye can reveal.

 

Several former rebel fighters now back in the UK told MEE that they had been able to travel to Libya with "no questions asked" as authorities continued to investigate the background of a British-Libyan suicide bomber who killed 22 people in Monday's attack in Manchester.

 

Read More : http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sorted-mi5-how-uk-government-sent-british-libyans-fight-gaddafi-1219906488

[LammyTS1]

I noticed today in a Pattaya shopping mall, all vehicles now being checked for weapons/explosives. People even had to get off their bikes so under seat storage could be checked.

Is this in response to the atrocity in Manchester?


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[Scott]

Troll post removed.  

[balo]

1 hour ago, LammyTS1 said:

I noticed today in a Pattaya shopping mall, all vehicles now being checked for weapons/explosives.

Its always like this after any terrorist attacks , happened also after Brussels, Paris and the Bangkok bomb. They check vehicles for maybe 2 weeks and then back to normal and any terrorist can do what they want. .