British police says responding to serious incident at Manchester Arena

[7by7]

Just now, RickBradford said:

My point is that murderous atrocities carried out by British lunatics in the past caused the authorities to take decisive action.

 

Murderous atrocities carried out by Islamist jihadis nowadays cause the authorities to do nothing but suggest we all stand together and avoid hurting the feelings of Muslims in case they get offended and blow up some more children.

 

I think that the majority of British (and even European) citizens would like to see their governments take some action on this front, or at the very least accept that some action must be taken.

 

But they don't. Unless you count candlelit vigils as 'action'.

I suggest that you pay attention to the media; the authorities are taking action and have been for many years. Plots are foiled, arrests are made, convictions are obtained, people are imprisoned.

 

Why can you not acknowledge that fact?

[7by7]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/apologist

 

Clearly English is not your first language. Arabic?

 I asked "Apologists? Who are these apologists and what are they apologising for?" not for a definition!

[Grouse]

Several new offences being considered and likely to be passed into law soon. 

 

These will include a much strengthened anti radicalisation program, closer monitoring of suspects and likely quarantine for Muslims returning from listed countries ( by whatever route)

 

I also predict a reduction in beards in Northern England.

[MaxYakov]

37 minutes ago, Grouse said:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/islam-infested-by-extremists-moderate-muslim-cleric-says/news-story/e4020668bba6c222d83141f10e58070a

 

This is ON topic both WRT to Manchester and Simple1. Time for the apologists to <deleted> and apologise

The Australian news article link you provided is a pay wall (for me, anyway). Did a little research and the article apparently is based on a Sunrise Today  broadcast segment (YouTube video, below).

 

Imam Tawhidi (Starting @ 1:45):  "It is very hard being a peaceful moderate person in a society that is infested by extremist Muslims".

 

 

:

Edited May 27, 2017 by MaxYakov

[RickBradford]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

I suggest that you pay attention to the media; the authorities are taking action and have been for many years. Plots are foiled, arrests are made, convictions are obtained, people are imprisoned.

 

Why can you not acknowledge that fact?

It obviously isn't enough, then, is it? 

 

22 people are blown to bits at a pop concert in Manchester and you think that represents success on behalf of the authorities?

 

Go and tell that to the family members of the dead and maimed.

 

 

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 I asked "Apologists? Who are these apologists and what are they apologising for?" not for a definition!

Read the definition again. People are excusing actions and beliefs. Sorry you don't understand the subtleties of our language; you are so tied up with excusing Islamists.

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, MaxYakov said:

The Australian news article link you provided is a pay wall (for me, anyway). Did a little research and the article apparently is based on a Sunrise Today  broadcast segment (YouTube video, below).

 

Imam Tawidi (Starting @ 1:45):  "It is very hard being a peaceful moderate person in a society that is infested by extremist Muslims".

 

 

:

Thanks!

[transam]

24 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Point missed by you again!

 

To elaborate for your benefit.

 

In most town centres these days, particularly at night, you are far more likely to be attacked by drunken brawlers than you are by Islamic terrorists.

 

But if, like Flustered, you want to quake in fear and avoid any town or city with a Muslim living in it; that is up to you.

 

Like most Brits, like the people of Manchester; I'm made of sterner stuff.

NO, YOU are missing the point....UK folk are probably looking at a bearded bloke wondering if he's got a bomb up his jumper, more so for youngsters NOW....So your a hero cos of your friends.....Hmmmmmmmmmm

[7by7]

18 minutes ago, transam said:

NO, YOU are missing the point....UK folk are probably looking at a bearded bloke wondering if he's got a bomb up his jumper, more so for youngsters NOW....So your a hero cos of your friends.....Hmmmmmmmmmm

I make no claims to heroism; I'll leave that to others.

 

If you were actually in the UK right now, you would now the spirit of the people here.

 

Do these people looked cowed and too scared to leave their homes?

 

 

[7by7]

43 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Read the definition again. People are excusing actions and beliefs. Sorry you don't understand the subtleties of our language; you are so tied up with excusing Islamists.

 I challenge you to produce one, just one post where I have ever excused, apologised for or in any other way shown sympathy with terrorists, Islamic or otherwise.

 

People like you throw this accusation around a lot; usually when you have run out of arguments and are confounded by facts.

 

But you can never back it up.

 

Produce your evidence; or admit that you are wrong.

[7by7]

46 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Read the definition again. People are excusing actions and beliefs. Sorry you don't understand the subtleties of our language; you are so tied up with excusing Islamists.

I know the definition; I did not ask for the definition. I asked ""Apologists? Who are these apologists and what are they apologising for?"

 

Will you answer this time, or again dodge the question and instead throw out yet another baseless accusation?

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/islam-infested-by-extremists-moderate-muslim-cleric-says/news-story/e4020668bba6c222d83141f10e58070a

 

This is ON topic both WRT to Manchester and Simple1. Time for the apologists to <deleted> and apologise

The link you provided is only accessible by subscription.

 

You are repeatedly breaking forum rules by making personal false accusations. If you do not like my opinions fine, but do not say I support / sympathise / excuse Islamist terror - whatever -  it's a lie and a known tactic of the right to attempt censorship of those they disagree with.

 

I am surprised that you (?) and a few others who claim to have a military background insist upon totally ignoring the advise of security authorities who one would assume have a greater knowledge of counter terrorism.. One is usually obliged to respect a person's service to one's country, but frankly, IMO,  you and some others come across as ignoramuses.

Edited May 27, 2017 by simple1

[Grouse]

20 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

I make no claims to heroism; I'll leave that to others.

 

If you were actually in the UK right now, you would now the spirit of the people here.

 

Do these people looked cowed and too scared to leave their homes?

 

 

They love Manchester and will defend the whole "Madchester" free wheeling, frequently bohemian,  fun loving lifestyle from all Islamic nutters (individually probably). Many of us "liberal", "left wing", metropolitan, educated softies have had enough. We've tolerated you often enough, turned the other cheek. Foolishly, you've pushed it too far. Like many strong silent types, when pushed too far, the reaction is likely to be apocalyptic. Instead of excusing the actions of these dreadful people you should be keeping quiet, keeping your heads below the parapet and hoping the storm blows over. I wouldn't bet on it!

 

BBC Radio 4 noted this morning that there were 1,300 major events this weekend in the U.K. Including two cup finals and the start of ramadan. Ramadan? What?? They think the UK wants to know about Ramadan!!?? At a time like this?

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

The link you provided is only accessible by subscription.

 

You are repeatedly breaking forum rules by making personal false accusations. If you do not like my opinions fine, but do not say I support / sympathise / excuse Islamist terror - whatever -  it's a complete lie and a known tactic of the right to attempt censorship of those they disagree with.

 

I am surprised that you (?) and a few others who claim to have a military background insist upon totally ignoring the advise of security authorities who one would assume have a greater knowledge of counter terrorism.. One is usually obliged to respect a person's service to one's country, but frankly, IMO,  you and some others come across as ignoramuses.

"I am surprised that you (?) and a few others who claim to have a military background insist upon totally ignoring the advise of security authorities who one would assume have a greater knowledge of counter terrorism."

 

I find your remark very contradictive, when the British intelligence officers said there are 23000 jihadists in Britain you were very quick to dismiss this. Do you only believe what you want to believe, is that called living in a cacoon.

And to call other posters on here ignoramuses just because they don't agree with what you say, is that within forum rules and etiquette?

[Grouse]

18 minutes ago, simple1 said:

The link you provided is only accessible by subscription.

 

You are repeatedly breaking forum rules by making personal false accusations. If you do not like my opinions fine, but do not say I support / sympathise / excuse Islamist terror - whatever -  it's a lie and a known tactic of the right to attempt censorship of those they disagree with.

 

I am surprised that you (?) and a few others who claim to have a military background insist upon totally ignoring the advise of security authorities who one would assume have a greater knowledge of counter terrorism.. One is usually obliged to respect a person's service to one's country, but frankly, IMO,  you and some others come across as ignoramuses.

Steady. I take very great care to respect forum rules. It took me a while but I think I know at least most of them now and take care to avoid breaking or even bending them.

 

I am making no personal accusations. The accusations implied both jointly and accurate. In English the word "you" maybe singular or plural. I always use in the plural sense. You may or may not include yourself in the groups I accuse. I accuse those who are the Islam apologists. Sometimes you seem to be a member of that set? If not then say so.

 

I have no conventional military background. I am an engineer and semiconductor physicist. I used to run companies spun out from UMIST before it merged with Manchester University and have many close associations. I also lost someone at Brussels last year.

 

Far better that you allow us to get it off our chests than throw oxidising agents onto the fire.

 

Finally to accuse me of being an ignoramus is not quite correct. Angry, arrogant, condescending maybe. An ignoramus, no. I don't claim to know everything, just more than many.

Edited May 27, 2017 by Grouse

[simple1]

Just now, vogie said:

"I am surprised that you (?) and a few others who claim to have a military background insist upon totally ignoring the advise of security authorities who one would assume have a greater knowledge of counter terrorism."

 

I find your remark very contradictive, when the British intelligence officers said there are 23000 jihadists in Britain you were very quick to dismiss this. Do you only believe what you want to believe, is that called living in a cacoon.

And to call other posters on here ignoramuses just because they don't agree with what you say, is that within forum rules and etiquette?

Nope never commented upon that matter. However, not what I was referencing and have repeated a number of times in this topic and not about me but what the security services advise

[simple1]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Steady. I take very great care to respect forum rules. It took me a while but I think I know at least most of them now.

 

I am making no personal accusations. The accusations implied are joint and accurate. In English the word you Maybe singular and plural. I always use in the plural sense. You may or may not include yourself in the groups I accuse. I accuse the apologists. Sometimes you seem to be a member of that set? If not then say so.

 

I have no conventional military background. I am an engineer and semiconductor physicist. I used to run companies spun out from UMIST before it merged with Manchester University and have many close associations. I also lost someone at Brussels last year.

 

Far better that you allow us to get it off our chests than throw oxidising agents onto the fire.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

For gods sake what do I need to clarify, you're just repeating the same nonsense. May be a good idea for you to look into the mirror with reference to "throw oxidising agents onto the fire"

 

Condolences for your loss.

Peter

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Nope never commented upon that matter. However, not what I was referencing and have repeated a number of times in this topic and not about me but what the security services advise

This is what you said,

 

"We all deal with these issues in different ways, personally I do not believe , nor do the security forces,  it is constructive  to  post  propaganda of fear and hate or vilification of Muslims in general."

 

would it be fair to say that you were dismissing what the intelligence officers as propaganga?

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Steady. I take very great care to respect forum rules. It took me a while but I think I know at least most of them now.

 

I am making no personal accusations. The accusations implied are joint and accurate. In English the word you Maybe singular and plural. I always use in the plural sense. You may or may not include yourself in the groups I accuse. I accuse the apologists. Sometimes you seem to be a member of that set? If not then say so.

 

I have no conventional military background. I am an engineer and semiconductor physicist. I used to run companies spun out from UMIST before it merged with Manchester University and have many close associations. I also lost someone at Brussels last year.

 

Far better that you allow us to get it off our chests than throw oxidising agents onto the fire.

Still waiting for the apologetic posts.

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

This is what you said,

 

"We all deal with these issues in different ways, personally I do not believe , nor do the security forces,  it is constructive  to  post  propaganda of fear and hate or vilification of Muslims in general."

 

would it be fair to say that you were dismissing what the intelligence officers as propaganga?

Sounds like English is not your first language.

 

His statement is in agreement with that of the security forces.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Sounds like English is not your first language.

 

His statement is in agreement with that of the security forces.

Please don't insult me, nobody mentioned security forces, if you want insults, can you read!

[Grouse]

11 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Nope never commented upon that matter. However, not what I was referencing and have repeated a number of times in this topic and not about me but what the security services advise

By security services I assume you refer to the police (I doubt Box would say anything)

 

The Police of course want calm.

 

My dear mother used to say: "now don't over react", a typical high church response, bless her!

 

Sadly, sometimes, one has to stand up AND react to protect one's beliefs and freedoms from unwanted and unwarranted attack.

 

I am going back to the UK to vote. I am expecting some interesting evenings out.

[thaihome]

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

... sometimes, one has to stand up AND react to protect one's beliefs and freedoms from unwanted and unwarranted attack...

 

The perspective of someone making that statement appears to to the core issue in this discussion. 

TH 

 

[Grouse]

13 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Still waiting for the apologetic posts.

That's the point

 

There have been NO apologetic posts

 

There have been a deluge of posts from APOLOGISTS stating it's just a few "bad eggs", it's because of British military action in the ME, the local imam warned the authorities, not many Muslims are cheering, the communities have responsibility. I'll spare you the "religion of peace" rhetoric.

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, thaihome said:

The perspective of someone making that statement appears to to the core issue in this discussion. 

TH 

 

Fair comment ?

 

Mutual respect for others in times times of pain and joy is a great thing

[onthesoi]

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

That's the point

 

There have been NO apologetic posts

 

There have been a deluge of posts from APOLOGISTS stating it's just a few "bad eggs", it's because of British military action in the ME, the local imam warned the authorities, not many Muslims are cheering, the communities have responsibility. I'll spare you the "religion of peace" rhetoric.

 

Apologists not being apologetic ? ....tying yourself in knots now Grouse....if you can't provide the posts to back up your accusation then it simply means they never existed outside your feverish imagination.  You've put "bad eggs" in inverted commas so who are you quoting exactly or is this another imaginery poster?

[onthesoi]

Sadly, sometimes, one has to stand up AND react to protect one's beliefs and freedoms from unwanted and unwarranted attack.

 

Unwarranted attack? ....so the UK can attack and be complicit in the deaths of millions of innocent muslims, but if they happen to fight back on our streets its unwarranted? ....the term wilfully ignorant springs to mind.

Edited May 27, 2017 by onthesoi

[Grouse]

24 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

Apologists not being apologetic ? ....tying yourself in knots now Grouse....if you can't provide the posts to back up your accusation then it simply means they never existed outside your feverish imagination.  You've put "bad eggs" in inverted commas so who are you quoting exactly or is this another imaginery poster?

I used the term "bad eggs" as a well known English language metaphor. I did not mean bad eggs literally. It's an idiom.

 

Is this a TEFL lecture?

 

I will try and find a clearer explanation to help you understand the difference between apologists and apologies

 

Here are some synonyms for apologists 

 

Devil's advocate is rather apposite,  don't you think? 

Edited May 27, 2017 by Grouse

[crystal sauce]

So guys have you figured out what HSCQ stand for?

[RickBradford]

16 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

Sadly, sometimes, one has to stand up AND react to protect one's beliefs and freedoms from unwanted and unwarranted attack.

 

Unwarranted attack? ....so the UK can attack and be complicit in the deaths of millions of innocent muslims, but if they happen to fight back on our streets its unwarranted? ....the term wilfully ignorant springs to mind.

It sure does.

 

IS, in its published manifesto has stated plainly that Western military actions are a minor part of why they hate us and like to kill us, man, woman and child.

 

It states the first reason is that we are "disbelievers"; the second that we have "secular, liberal societies"; and the third is that we are "atheist". Only then do they go on to talk about bombing Muslim countries, and so on.

 

The manifesto concludes: "What’s important to understand here is that although some might argue that your foreign policies are the extent of what drives our hatred, this particular reason for hating you is secondary, hence the reason we addressed it at the end of the above list."

 

This manifesto has been public for almost a year - yet you haven't read it to find out their stated reasons, which explicitly contradict what you posted.

 

That is almost the definition of "wilfully ignorant", in my estimation.