Grouse Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 1 minute ago, simple1 said: Constantly accusing posters as being 'apologists' for Islamist terror OK, I will refrain from using the word 'apologists'; I apologise. I have no wish to upset anyone by my phraseology. However, that does not change the fact that the much vaunted claims that this person had been reported by a number of members of his community including an Imam are now in doubt. My opinion remains that the community must hold some responsibility for providing succour and support. In my view this person, at age 22, was unlikely to operate in a vacuum. Anyway, the truth will out! I applaud the Mancunians for keeping calm; it's still very close to the atrocity. I would expect some kind of response in due course though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 17 minutes ago, Grouse said: The anti terrorist hotline was established in Feb 2012. That happens to be 5 years ago. I can still access emails from 20 years ago using various search criteria. So the claim is now that he was allegedly reported 5 years ago (at age 17) according to a community worker, and MI5 have not kept the records Hmmm! No, that is afaik not the claim, that is your conclusion based on one news source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 1 minute ago, stevenl said: No, that is afaik not the claim, that is your conclusion based on one news source. So who is telling porkie pies here? ( if you'll excuse the Cockney rhyming slang) MI5? The BBC? The community worker? The members of the community quoted? I have my opinion, what's yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 8 minutes ago, Grouse said: So who is telling porkie pies here? ( if you'll excuse the Cockney rhyming slang) MI5? The BBC? The community worker? The members of the community quoted? I have my opinion, what's yours? It could all be true. After all the only claim (by Manchester police, I presume from MI5 but have not read that) is 'so far no records found'. So far, so they could still turn up; no records found, so they could be there just not found (yet); no records found, so the calls could have been made but not recorded/noted; and there has at the moment only been one source for this 'no records found', so the source could be wrong as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 20 minutes ago, stevenl said: It could all be true. After all the only claim (by Manchester police, I presume from MI5 but have not read that) is 'so far no records found'. So far, so they could still turn up; no records found, so they could be there just not found (yet); no records found, so the calls could have been made but not recorded/noted; and there has at the moment only been one source for this 'no records found', so the source could be wrong as well. Yes, quite. However the anti terrorist hotline seems to be a core of 10 people feeding info to 190 specialists embedded in the police. They MUST be using a secure relational data base. Aren't they? I guess we'll find out. Until then, I'll keep my pipe tobacco dry ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 I suspect we will never know any of the internal procedures of "Box" Can't argue with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 2 hours ago, Grouse said: OK, I will refrain from using the word 'apologists'; I apologise. I have no wish to upset anyone by my phraseology. Phraseology deliberately designed to make unsubstantiated accusations against posters here. You have accused posters here of being apologists for terrorism on many occasions and when asked to provide evidence, have used pathetic arguments to deny making such accusations. Only to later specifically repeat them, the latest example being 6 hours ago, Grouse said: I see no response from the apologists.... 2 hours ago, Grouse said: However, that does not change the fact that the much vaunted claims that this person had been reported by a number of members of his community including an Imam are now in doubt. My opinion remains that the community must hold some responsibility for providing succour and support. In my view this person, at age 22, was unlikely to operate in a vacuum. Anyway, the truth will out! As shown earlier, the UK security services have thwarted at least 18 Islamic terrorist plots since 2013. people have been arrested, charged and imprisoned. These successes are, in part at least, the result of information received. Where do you think this information came from, if not from the communities the terrorists were hiding and plotting in; i.e. the Muslim community? Yes, some members of that community have provided succor and support to the plotters; but the vast majority have not and many who have had suspicions have voiced those suspicions to the authorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 9 minutes ago, 7by7 said: Phraseology deliberately designed to make unsubstantiated accusations against posters here. You have accused posters here of being apologists for terrorism on many occasions and when asked to provide evidence, have used pathetic arguments to deny making such accusations. Only to later specifically repeat them, the latest example being As shown earlier, the UK security services have thwarted at least 18 Islamic terrorist plots since 2013. people have been arrested, charged and imprisoned. These successes are, in part at least, the result of information received. Where do you think this information came from, if not from the communities the terrorists were hiding and plotting in; i.e. the Muslim community? Yes, some members of that community have provided succor and support to the plotters; but the vast majority have not and many who have had suspicions have voiced those suspicions to the authorities. No comment. No wish to antagonise anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 13 hours ago, Grouse said: However the anti terrorist hotline seems to be a core of 10 people feeding info to 190 specialists embedded in the police. Again I don't know why you post nonsense. Even a cursory Google search shows historical numbers from FOI requests. e.g. The overall number of tip offs has grown from an average of 253 calls a month in 2002/3, to 415 a month in 2008/9. In total, 62,301 calls were received by the hotline in the past seven years, the only period for which data is held. Every call to the hotline is referred to be analysed by senior officers. Currently reports coming in of a terror attack on London Bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert bloggs Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 3 hours ago, simple1 said: Again I don't know why you post nonsense. Even a cursory Google search shows historical numbers from FOI requests. e.g. The overall number of tip offs has grown from an average of 253 calls a month in 2002/3, to 415 a month in 2008/9. In total, 62,301 calls were received by the hotline in the past seven years, the only period for which data is held. Every call to the hotline is referred to be analysed by senior officers. Currently reports coming in of a terror attack on London Bridge. Just read the reports of the Terror attack ,wonder who could of done it , wonder if its any members of that loving community that always reports about terrorist sympathisers in their midst ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewsterbudgen Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 1 minute ago, bert bloggs said: Just read the reports of the Terror attack ,wonder who could of done it , wonder if its any members of that loving community that always reports about terrorist sympathisers in their midst ? Terrorists did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 11 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said: Terrorists did it. Would that be muslim terrorists, some people appear not to able to call a spade, a spade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert bloggs Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 12 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said: Terrorists did it. Bhuddists,Christian ,Hindu , Atheist , Seventh day adventists , ? wonder what religion they were from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewsterbudgen Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, bert bloggs said: Bhuddists,Christian ,Hindu , Atheist , Seventh day adventists , ? wonder what religion they were from? I believe they were Muslims, but I'm sure it will be confirmed soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert bloggs Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Just now, brewsterbudgen said: I believe they were Muslims, but I'm sure it will be confirmed soon. Well its hard to tell ,you know as there are so many religions , you never know which one is carrying out all these terrorist attacks now ,do you .? some people say its virtually 100% of these terrorists are from only one faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 13 minutes ago, bert bloggs said: Just read the reports of the Terror attack ,wonder who could of done it , wonder if its any members of that loving community that always reports about terrorist sympathisers in their midst? Have to wait and see if any of the attackers were on a watch list as a result of tip offs. Seems sometimes security agencies make mistakes is prioritising their focus or a cell managed to keep off the radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, simple1 said: Have to wait and see if any of the attackers were on a watch list as a result of tip offs. Seems sometimes security agencies make mistakes is prioritising their focus or a cell managed to keep off the radar. An early shift of blame, it could be the fault of the security forces, but I would like to blame the people that are carrying out these attrocities myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwasaki Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 9 minutes ago, simple1 said: Have to wait and see if any of the attackers were on a watch list as a result of tip offs. Seems sometimes security agencies make mistakes is prioritising their focus or a cell managed to keep off the radar. Watch list emm !! A recent report accounts for around 20,000 suspect people in UK. 3000 of those suspects are under surveillance of some kind allegedly. Difficult job for the undermanned security services l guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 An off topic deflection trolling post has been removed as well as the replies. An inflammatory post has been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balo Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Tonight is the big night in Manchester , benefit concert with Ariane, Justin Bieber, Coldplay, Katy Perry, Miley Cyrus, Pharrell Williams, Take That, Niall Horan, Little Mix, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 3 hours ago, metisdead said: An off topic deflection trolling post has been removed as well as the replies. An inflammatory post has been removed. I hope it was the new member "frangkiller" guy....If he is a farang being funny, he has a serious mental problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 5 hours ago, balo said: Tonight is the big night in Manchester , benefit concert with Ariane, Justin Bieber, Coldplay, Katy Perry, Miley Cyrus, Pharrell Williams, Take That, Niall Horan, Little Mix, Just going to get a lot more support... Quote One Love Manchester: 'Greater purpose' after London attack Ariana Grande's manager has said the One Love Manchester concert will "go ahead with greater purpose" following the London attack. Scooter Braun tweeted that "all artists involved have been unwavering in their support this morning and are determined to carry on with the show". Thousands of people are heading to the city for a tribute concert remembering the lives lost in the 22 May attack. Police said there would be additional security in place. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-40150058 Britain United Against Terrorists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Watching someone talking about the concert now, and about the security. Obviously the security will be massive for this concert. What about such next week, next month, next year? Will they have the same amount of security? That is something for the government to ponder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janclaes47 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 11 hours ago, balo said: Tonight is the big night in Manchester , benefit concert with Ariane, Justin Bieber, Coldplay, Katy Perry, Miley Cyrus, Pharrell Williams, Take That, Niall Horan, Little Mix, How sad that such benefit concerts ( read gaining personal publicity by abusing the feelings of the general public ) only happen after such awful events Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewsterbudgen Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 How sad that such benefit concerts ( read gaining personal publicity by abusing the feelings of the general public ) only happen after such awful eventsThe purpose of the concert is to raise money for the victims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janclaes47 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Just now, brewsterbudgen said: The purpose of the concert is to raise money for the victims. I am well aware how fundraisers work, that is everything that is left after all artists are paid, will go to the victims. At the same time they play on the feelings of the general public with " see that artist has a good heart" lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evadgib Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 56 minutes ago, janclaes47 said: I am well aware how fundraisers work, that is everything that is left after all artists are paid, will go to the victims. At the same time they play on the feelings of the general public with " see that artist has a good heart" lol I wouldn't let Geldof hear you say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace of Pop Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Geldoff OK . Still livin hi on the hog from Bandaid and Don't like Mondays from 30 years ago. He's. A Spittoon imo.☠️Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 7 hours ago, janclaes47 said: I am well aware how fundraisers work, that is everything that is left after all artists are paid, will go to the victims. At the same time they play on the feelings of the general public with " see that artist has a good heart" lol The horror is so recent that its likely most of the money goes to the victims. Nonetheless, it would be interesting to find out how much goes on 'necessary expenses'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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