Opening a coffee shop for my thai friend

[Thomas99]

OK, the heading should introduce the topic well enough, so I follow with a request, which I put kindly to you.

 

If you reply to this post please try to stick to the practical questions I am putting below, rather than the moral, social or other aspects of this matter.

 

I have been in this country long time and I am well aware of the pitfalls of guys helping out girls, or being sucked all their money etc etc. I don't care about that. Actually, I do care, I am very interested, but I will post separately about them, as they pertain to the curiosity sphere, which drives the sociologist in me.

This post is not about that... this post is about helping a thai girl (not gf) to open a business. I am am thinking of a Bangkok coffee shop. She comes from Isaan, has been in BKK a while, she is smart but has zero experience of running a business, not to mention a coffee shop.

 

I am retired, I have the money and would never work in the cafe, nor appear in any paper work, nor would show up at preliminary visits to avoid prices soaring because I am a farang.

In other words, I hand out the money to open the business, don't want them back. I just want her to have a dignified living rather than working many hours per day in a shopping mall for someone else. Naive I know, but I don't care.

 

So... my questions:

1 - Where to start? 

 

2 - Given the lack of previous experience would it make sense to look for something which is already started and pay a premium for it?

 

3 - Given the lack of previous experience and a good experience dealing with farang (not sex trade), does it make sense to focus on areas where there are farang (certainly not upmarket places or lower sukhumvit) or better stay in the more isolated thai-only neighbourhoods where work is hard, but costs are lower (and so are revenues)?

 

4 - What questions to ask and what evidence to look for?

I am thinking of outgoings (rent, accounting, monthly expenses, staff, taxes) and revenue (how many coffees, daily income)

 

5 - Any specific licenses to be had?

 

6 - Pitfalls (cheating, mafia, other things to look out for)

 

7 - Tricks (ratios, ie coffee sold to staff, or coffee sold to rent)

 

Pardon the naivety of my questions but really this is a genuine attempt to get someone a decent life. I think you can see through that.

 

Any help appreciated,

Anonymous Thanks,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rimmer]

A troll post has been removed, please help answer the OP questions if you can, if you cant please move on to another topic, thank you

[champers]

Without any experience of running a business, or even experience of working in a business of this type, the business is likely to fail. You may not be worried about losing your investment but you should be worried about your friend losing all her confidence. I would spend on her education; it is an investment for life and gives her more options.

[ezzra]

Unless the intended location is a super star location for selling coffee

I wouldn't waste my money and her energy on coffee, as every dick, Tom

and his Thai girlfriend are opening a no brainer coffee shop everywhere.....

[theguyfromanotherforum]

What is wrong with working in a shopping mall?

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[ChristianBlessing]

Perhaps it would be worthwhile for her to take employment in an established coffee shop, both to learn the trade and to discover whether this is something she really wishes to do.

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[oxo1947]

34 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

What is wrong with working in a shopping mall?

I dont think there is anything wrong with working in a mall---its just working 12 hours for $12 that he is complaining about.

 

But have to agree with some posters---everyone seems to be into coffee shops at the moment--before...it's lets open a car wash.

I find it hard to believe your not banging her Thomas99....because for someone who (says) he has lived here some time---to set someone up in a business that she or you have absolutely no background or experience in ....that its a heart decision Thomas.

 

So I am sure you can find a better way of increasing income for her services than a hugh lump sum into a shop that the income will not cover her rent---so you will also be up for that each month..............

[onthesoi]

6 - Pitfalls

 

Investing in a business in a saturated market where the manager has zero business experience and there is no contract so your effectively just giving free money to said manager is extreme folly....especially when you yourself have obviously no experience investing in buinesses.

 

There is a reason why shes working in a shopping mall....and its not lack of money to start a business.

Edited May 25, 2017 by onthesoi

[tonray]

I would suggest a better use of the money would be financing a University or Technical College Education. Get a real dignified living by earning the skills to perform in business.

 

As others have pointed out, coffee shops are a dime a dozen and frankly most people prefer standard bearers, Starbucks, Coffee Today, etc so you would likely be buying into a licensing agreement if you wanted a long term prospect. I know of a Thai couple who run a Coffee Today location in Seacon Bang Khae. They started out small and just late last year expanded their floor space and are doing quite well...but they both work there from 9 AM until about 8 Pm in the evening every day. It can be done.

 

How about getting a business degree (a sure sign of the perseverance to be successful) , then getting some management experience, it's more than just serving coffee...inventory management, accounting, etc etc etc.. Then if successful sure think seriously about a coffee shop.

 

Just a bit of personal example, someone in my life, a Thai with 10 years of retail management experience has at times expressed a desire to own her own store. Currently manages a small supermarket for a large national chain. When a Super Big-C opened up down the road, sales started to dry up. Very concerned I pointed out that had that been her  store instead of one belonging to Tops, she would be facing bankruptcy right now instead of Central Group taking the heat. A huge difference in perspective. Not worth it for a commodity business when anyone can open up down the Soi and take your business away.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, Thomas99 said:

I have been in this country long time and I am well aware of the pitfalls of guys helping out girls, or being sucked all their money etc etc.

So why you asking l think your post is a bit of joke really.

[varun]

Quote

She comes from Isaan, has been in BKK a while, she is smart but has zero experience of running a business, not to mention a coffee shop.

Troll post, but I'll bite.

 

I cringe whenever I heard the the words 'smart but'  in a sentence.

 

1) If she is as smart as you claim, she wouldn't need your help

 

2) I don't know which planet of logic you come from, but there are better ways to waste your money

    than giving money to a 'smart' person to start a business, who has zero experience of running a business!

[Thomas99]

 

6 hours ago, champers said:

Without any experience of running a business, or even experience of working in a business of this type, the business is likely to fail. You may not be worried about losing your investment but you should be worried about your friend losing all her confidence. I would spend on her education; it is an investment for life and gives her more options.

Agree 100% with your final statement. I tried this a year ago and it didn't go anywhere, it was a step too far for her I think. She is in her mid-thirties and the effort and time needed to complete education and going through apprenticeship into a job also put me off, not to mention the cost of having to sustain her with a salary for some years, which would have probably been higher than what I have in mind now (or maybe not).

As for her losing the confidence if it fails it may however boost her experience. I do agree that chances of failing are high, but I am there to push it forward if need be for as long as it takes. Anyway, thanks for comment.

6 hours ago, ezzra said:

Unless the intended location is a super star location for selling coffee

I wouldn't waste my money and her energy on coffee, as every dick, Tom

and his Thai girlfriend are opening a no brainer coffee shop everywhere.....

Noted, thanks. Kind of agree, or instead of boosting the location one lowers the expectations or makes a superstar innovative idea that works.

 

6 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

What is wrong with working in a shopping mall?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

This has been answered by another poster: 9000/month for 12 hours days six days per week without the right to walk out of the store even for a minute and all sorts of penalties for late arrival or sickness isn't what I call a good life. The fact that many girls do it doesn't make it right.

5 hours ago, ChristianBlessing said:

Perhaps it would be worthwhile for her to take employment in an established coffee shop, both to learn the trade and to discover whether this is something she really wishes to do.

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk
 

Yes, but she is in her mid-30s, wasted a lot of time working for others and has the potential for growth. I think anything more than two months in a starbucks would be a waste she just needs to dive into deep water to learn business, not coffee making.

But thanks for the well thought advice.

 

5 hours ago, oxo1947 said:

I find it hard to believe your not banging her Thomas99....because for someone who (says) he has lived here some time---to set someone up in a business that she or you have absolutely no background or experience in ....that its a heart decision Thomas.

 

So I am sure you can find a better way of increasing income for her services than a hugh lump sum into a shop that the income will not cover her rent---so you will also be up for that each month..............

The banging point makes me smile, as if it made a difference: no I am not banging her. I am banging others, it is a heart decision. I have been here 35 years, I say.

Have to add that whilst I don't have business running experience, I should have added that I have significant management experience, deal with budgets of millions (dollars) and - as you can see from the 'not banging but helping' I am a bit of a lateral thinker, so if she makes the coffees I can help with strategy, business management and yes - I would need to cover the rent for as long as necessary, I'm aware.

 

4 hours ago, onthesoi said:

6 - Pitfalls

 

Investing in a business in a saturated market where the manager has zero business experience and there is no contract so your effectively just giving free money to said manager is extreme folly....especially when you yourself have obviously no experience investing in buinesses.

 

There is a reason why shes working in a shopping mall....and its not lack of money to start a business.

Yes, I take your point, but one has to take a leap once in a while, and it's intuition, ability to risk and hard work that can make change, otherwise there'd be complete stagnation.

On your last point, it's well put, and I agree. I am indeed testing her out and grooming her into her opportunity. She has to find a place, ask the questions, demonstrate the ability to organise herself and to pursue the objective. Yes I'll fork out the money but only if I am sure that she is deserving it. Of course that's not a guarantee for success, but I'm willing to risk if I see there are some chances of success (agree it's a saturated market, but she has a very low bar in terms of expectations)

4 hours ago, tonray said:

I would suggest a better use of the money would be financing a University or Technical College Education. Get a real dignified living by earning the skills to perform in business.

Thanks. As I mentioned at the start of this post this has been tried and it wasn't working. It was my very first attempt to make a difference a year ago. I might do it for her daughter.

 

Quote

As others have pointed out, coffee shops are a dime a dozen and frankly most people prefer standard bearers, Starbucks, Coffee Today, etc so you would likely be buying into a licensing agreement if you wanted a long term prospect. I know of a Thai couple who run a Coffee Today location in Seacon Bang Khae. They started out small and just late last year expanded their floor space and are doing quite well...but they both work there from 9 AM until about 8 Pm in the evening every day. It can be done.

Encouraging. The working hours are not a problem.

 

Quote

How about getting a business degree (a sure sign of the perseverance to be successful) , then getting some management experience, it's more than just serving coffee...inventory management, accounting, etc etc etc.. Then if successful sure think seriously about a coffee shop.

See above.

 

Quote

Just a bit of personal example, someone in my life, a Thai with 10 years of retail management experience has at times expressed a desire to own her own store. Currently manages a small supermarket for a large national chain. When a Super Big-C opened up down the road, sales started to dry up. Very concerned I pointed out that had that been her  store instead of one belonging to Tops, she would be facing bankruptcy right now instead of Central Group taking the heat. A huge difference in perspective. Not worth it for a commodity business when anyone can open up down the Soi and take your business away.

I see the point, that's understood and I am conscious of it. However the only alternative I can see is to grow older into a shopping mall or serving in a restaurant.

I might follow the education point with her daughter, so at least when Big C take over and the coffee shop business dries up she'll have some sort of support.

 

4 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

So why you asking l think your post is a bit of joke really.

I think it's your post that is a bit of a joke, or you have completely missed my point.

 

4 hours ago, varun said:

Troll post, but I'll bite.

 

I cringe whenever I heard the the words 'smart but'  in a sentence.

 

1) If she is as smart as you claim, she wouldn't need your help

 

2) I don't know which planet of logic you come from, but there are better ways to waste your money

    than giving money to a 'smart' person to start a business, who has zero experience of running a business!

1 - It's not a troll post.

2 - Smart intended as she is not a girl that spends her money on drinks, make-up, clothes. She is hard working, has high emotional intelligence but no experience. Being smart doesn't mean not needing help. Look at me, I am very smart but I am asking for help.

Are you?

3 - I use aristotelian logic, which requires coherency focus and ability to read questions right.

 

 

I want to thank all for the encouragement above (ha ha). Barring a few exceptions the near totality of the thread is dedicated exactly to questioning whether or not it is a good decision, which is exactly what I had asked not to focus on.

7 hours ago, Thomas99 said:

 

If you reply to this post please try to stick to the practical questions I am putting below, rather than the moral, social or other aspects of this matter.

So, I am not asking whether it's a good idea to open a coffee shop. I am asking specific practical questions about it: income, costs, questions to ask, mafia, tricks of the trade.

I say this kindly, I really thank you for the well thought advice and for the concern, but leave me the decision of whether to do it or not, I am not an idiot, I'll let the heart, the brain and the wallet decide. But if I decide to go ahead with it I need to have a bit of practical aid, which is what I asked for here and I still hope to get.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kokesaat]

I've lived in Udon for a few decades.  From the time where there were zero coffee shops until coffee shops sprouted up all over town.  Extremely few survive, and those are usually co-located with gas stations, car washes, or other sustaining businesses.

 

A few things to consider:  Thais are not keen coffee drinkers.  I rarely see a Thai drink hot coffee, and more rarely see a Thai drink a coffee product in the late afternoon (contrast to a Starbucks full of customers in the evening in the US).  

Just recently, 7-11's have added a coffee corner with freshly ground coffee brewed on fancy coffee machines.  The cost is much less than what is commonly charged in a coffee shop.

A few years ago, I visited a new coffee shop in town.  The owner spoke excellent English.  She served only coffee and toast products.  I asked about her English.  She had worked for Chanel in Bangkok for several years, saved up her cash, and longed to open her own coffee shop.  Two months later, the shop was closed.

Good luck with your venture, but I'd vote with the seasoned expats who advise against the business.

[jeab1980]

Wrong buisness to go into now far to many sround and still opening up. Very few buisnesses now will get of the ground and if you happen to find or construct a new type of buisness venture and it takes off. You can be sure within a couple of weeks at least ten doing the same thing will have opened up near yours.in a major city like bkk i would not invest any money into any small start up buisness. In a village things are slightly diffrent. Open a shop and stock as many lines as you can from elastic bands to hair color to food bags to selling ice. Then throw in a few washing machines and a drinking water despencing machine. Then some gimmik to get the locals through the gate. 2 units to rent one sells drinks and the local BBQ and the other us a beauty palor/hairdresser. You will never make a fortune but its a living run in your own time. With income ever month from the units washing machines and water dispencer. (Washing machines take on average 7k+ a month each there are 3. Coffe shop forget it.

[onthesoi]

 

she could do a lot worse than spend 1 year working in a coffee shop, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this suggestion, no better place to learn the business than at the bottom where she will be doing a little bit of everything not just making coffee, although making decent coffee is an important aspect of running a coffee shop.

 

At least this way she will learn if she has any appitude for the industry including the long shifts and unsociable hours.

 

I would be careful of trying to improve her life, as its most likley she will lose her current job and the coffee shop will fail when she quickly finds herself out of her depth....and the fantastic loss of face that comes with, what then?  Will you be supporting her, paying her bills etc...?

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by onthesoi

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, Thomas99 said:

I think it's your post that is a bit of a joke, or you have completely missed my point.

Your point is flawed l do not in the least see your point, you obviously live in a bubble.

[RowdyAlpha]

So you take all the risk just to get your money back and she just walks away if the business fails. Good luck I hope she makes a million and everything works out.

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[lkn]

9 hours ago, Thomas99 said:

1 - Where to start? 

Make a budget, or better, make her do a budget to see how much she understands.

 

[1FinickyOne]

Well, nice of you to do this for her... 

 

First and most important - Is this her idea? Or yours for her? If she does not have some passion for doing this business, it likely will not work out...

 

The way to start such a business is for her to work in someone else's coffee business for a while. Our parent's called it apprenticeship and it will be very valuable. Not only will she earn a salary but will eliminate both the learning curve and afford a chance to see if she enjoys being in the business... if she apprentices for 6 months, she will be able to answer all your questions... and really, she should be the one asking such questions. 

 

I would guess they are not too expensive to open - and it could be a deed well done. 

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Warren Miller said long ago going skiing in the rain is like standing in a cold shower tearing up Hundred dollar bills.


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[oldcarguy]

Buy her a motorised sales cart , or just a sales cart she can move around ,  USED one is best

 

then sell something like shaved ice ,  CoCo , smoothies , anything BUT Coffee

 

Find a place to park the cart , next to a factory is great  and be there  at least lunch time and end of day,

she needs foot traffic to sell enough every day...

 

if whatever she is selling does not work , repaint cart and try something else.

 

I think a place in the Mall has too many rules and too high overhead / fees

 

Good Luck ,

 

 

[NiwPix]

Well, I'll give it a shot :). I will just hope this really is a genuine post and my reply is not a waste of time.

1. Where to start?
Budget. How much money are you willing to invest / loose. What type of coffee shop are you looking to open? Only coffee? With some food or just some cake and bakery? Only drinks?
Depending on these answers depend big part of your budget. Also how big should it be? Do you want her to work on her own or with 1 or 2 staff or a coffeshop with several baristas?

2. Given the lack of previous experience it would definitely make sense to look for something that's already established. However, since a small coffee shop is fairly simple, it would be best if she works at a coffee shop somewhere for a few months. It would help aaaaaalot.

3. Which target group? Don't count on the farang. They are a minority here and don't have much influence in bringing friends and family to the shop. And many come and go. Unless you'll be in a tourist area, where your shop just needs to look appealing and clean. In that case you could do well with foreigners / tourists.
I would however stick with focus on Thais ( but keep it convenient for foreigners as well...ie English menu as well ): Thais are a majority here ( d'oh :) and usually have friends and family around...post pictures etc on social media. Treat them well and they'll be long time repeat customers.

4. Questions to ask? Do you mean if you want to take over an existing business? If that is the case, basically the common sense things:
Monthly income ( you'll probably receive a bit higher number that actual income or the highest number the shop ever made.
Monthly expenses: be prepared many things won't be mentioned and you'll definitely have more expenses in the coming months.
Accounting cost will be veeeery low. Don't worry about it ( unless your planning a big scale coffee shop and making it a company )

5. Besides a business license ( you'll probably go with sole proprietorship ), nothing I can think of. You miiiight need a health department license, but not sure if a coffee shop needs to have it. Costs roughly ฿3000 per year.

6. Mafia / police could care less about a small coffeeshop ( as far as I am aware of ). They're more interested in the alcohol and prostitution side of things.
Make sure the building you are renting is leak free and that the electricity can support several electrical items ( coffee machines use ~3000 watt. A cake fridge about ~1000 watt ) that itself is already quite a bit. Imagine a microwave to heat up food or deep fryer or a blender to mix drinks. You certainly don't want the breakers to pop. Or that during rainy season water drips onto anything electrical.
Another pitfall: staff. Goooood luck finding AND keeping staff more than 3 months. Assuming you will need staff, this will probably be your biggest headache once up and running.

A couple things I would like to suggest, in order of priority and with the fact the business will be a coffee shop and nothing can change your mind :)
1. Let her work at a coffee shop for a few months. NOT at brand name shop like Starbucks etc where they make everything idiot proof and a monkey could make you a coffee. Use a small / medium independent shop where she can still learn things while making coffee...dosage of coffee, different beans, various ingredients and many other things.
2. Start small with the possibility of expanding in that building ( upstairs? ) or next door.
3. Buy used equipment. Industrial equipment is made to last. Don't buy too old of equipment. A couple year old stuff should last you quite some time and not much money lost if you need to resell. You can always upgrade if you expand :)

Good luck.


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[Thomas99]

7 hours ago, kokesaat said:

I've lived in Udon for a few decades.  From the time where there were zero coffee shops until coffee shops sprouted up all over town.  Extremely few survive, and those are usually co-located with gas stations, car washes, or other sustaining businesses.

 

A few things to consider:  Thais are not keen coffee drinkers.  I rarely see a Thai drink hot coffee, and more rarely see a Thai drink a coffee product in the late afternoon (contrast to a Starbucks full of customers in the evening in the US).  

Just recently, 7-11's have added a coffee corner with freshly ground coffee brewed on fancy coffee machines.  The cost is much less than what is commonly charged in a coffee shop.

A few years ago, I visited a new coffee shop in town.  The owner spoke excellent English.  She served only coffee and toast products.  I asked about her English.  She had worked for Chanel in Bangkok for several years, saved up her cash, and longed to open her own coffee shop.  Two months later, the shop was closed.

Good luck with your venture, but I'd vote with the seasoned expats who advise against the business.

Thanks. I see your points and I agree. Actually I think that the idea of spending 50 or 100 baht in a cafe is for many recreational more than actual coffee intake. For that - as you said - there's a 7-11.

But yes, I do have serious reservations about this working out. The trick is to strike a balance between low expectations, low costs, broadening the offer and coming up with some good idea.

 

5 hours ago, onthesoi said:

 

she could do a lot worse than spend 1 year working in a coffee shop, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this suggestion, no better place to learn the business than at the bottom where she will be doing a little bit of everything not just making coffee, although making decent coffee is an important aspect of running a coffee shop.

 

At least this way she will learn if she has any appitude for the industry including the long shifts and unsociable hours.

 

I would be careful of trying to improve her life, as its most likley she will lose her current job and the coffee shop will fail when she quickly finds herself out of her depth....and the fantastic loss of face that comes with, what then?  Will you be supporting her, paying her bills etc...?

 

The first two paragraphs I fully agree with, that's the point. It's a sort of practical 'university', which I pay for, she'd hopefully make a living with it if I cover the expenses, which is cheaper than her going to uni and me paying for uni and for her living.

As for your last point, she has already lost her job (she was 1 hour late one day as she was sorting out some business for me, so she got fired), so there isn't much to lose. She will find a mall job when if the coffee shop closes down. 

5 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Your point is flawed l do not in the least see your point, you obviously live in a bubble.

Kwasaki... make up your mind lol, if you don't get my point, how can you say it's flawed?

I will spell it out clearly and with no acrimony: 'I have been in this country for a long time, I know all the horror stories about farang being conned out of their money and I do not ask any advice or comments on that matter. My post is simply aiming at learning the practical aspects of opening a business: 'evidence of revenue, insurance, what questions to ask when looking at a business for sale, etc'. Simple as that, nothing to do with whether or not the business will survive or whether or not I should be doing this or not, that's my decision only. We all live in a bubble and I am fine in mine lol.

5 hours ago, RowdyAlpha said:

So you take all the risk just to get your money back and she just walks away if the business fails. Good luck I hope she makes a million and everything works out.

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Thanks for the wishes, she will not make a million. Sure as eggs.

As for the risk, it's even more extreme than that ha ha. I don't want my money back, I'd be happy to see her business flourishing and her and her sister making 10000 per month each without depending on anyone.

4 hours ago, lkn said:

Make a budget, or better, make her do a budget to see how much she understands.

 

Fantastic, you got the spirit of my idea, although when it comes to budget and strategy I'll keep control, and just give her visibility so she gets the most of it (She'll need time to get to the right level)

4 hours ago, kenk24 said:

Well, nice of you to do this for her... 

 

First and most important - Is this her idea? Or yours for her? If she does not have some passion for doing this business, it likely will not work out...

 

The way to start such a business is for her to work in someone else's coffee business for a while. Our parent's called it apprenticeship and it will be very valuable. Not only will she earn a salary but will eliminate both the learning curve and afford a chance to see if she enjoys being in the business... if she apprentices for 6 months, she will be able to answer all your questions... and really, she should be the one asking such questions. 

 

I would guess they are not too expensive to open - and it could be a deed well done. 

Thanks, you too got the point. It is my idea unfortunately... I am trying to wake her up to the opportunity and actually explain to her what an opportunity is.

She is showing signs of understanding but you know this is not China, it's Thailand. She is not staying up at night making lists of businesses. She has three businesses in her list. She also has a list of questions to ask which I have tidied up for her and rationalised a bit.... as you can see there's a lot of work to do and in the end it may never happen.
That's why my university proposal a year ago didn't take off, she didn't demonstrate sufficient passion for it.

Surely if she doesn't take ownership I won't be the one doing it for her.

The point about apprenticeship is good, I did 5 years and it made me a professional.

3 hours ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

Warren Miller said long ago going skiing in the rain is like standing in a cold shower tearing up Hundred dollar bills.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This went well over my head. It is likely to be an innuendo on me throwing my money away, I guess :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Thomas99

[Thomas99]

3 hours ago, oldcarguy said:

Buy her a motorised sales cart , or just a sales cart she can move around ,  USED one is best

 

then sell something like shaved ice ,  CoCo , smoothies , anything BUT Coffee

 

Find a place to park the cart , next to a factory is great  and be there  at least lunch time and end of day,

she needs foot traffic to sell enough every day...

 

if whatever she is selling does not work , repaint cart and try something else.

 

I think a place in the Mall has too many rules and too high overhead / fees

 

Good Luck ,

 

 

Many good points introduced here. Variety of offer (I had thought about that), flexibility, convertibility and low costs.

I guess some complications regarding license, street food laws and territorial disputes with existing sellers possibly.

I'll keep it in mind, and it could even be an addendum to the base cafe, when the millions are flowing in, ha ha.

 

3 hours ago, NiwPix said:

3 hours ago, NiwPix said:

Well, I'll give it a shot :). I will just hope this really is a genuine post and my reply is not a waste of time.

 

It's a genuine post, and thanks for the time, the first that gets entirely the point of my post.

 

3 hours ago, NiwPix said:

1. Where to start?
Budget. How much money are you willing to invest / loose. What type of coffee shop are you looking to open? Only coffee? With some food or just some cake and bakery? Only drinks?
Depending on these answers depend big part of your budget. Also how big should it be? Do you want her to work on her own or with 1 or 2 staff or a coffeshop with several baristas?

Actually on the budget side I am comfortable managing it. 1 million doesn't scare me, but I hope it will be less overall. I am careful but not stingy. I spend when I want to spend.

Coffee, cakes, but also drinks and salads why not. Maximum flexibility. Also thinking of offering an area for meetings maybe, with chargers for computers etc (so people hang around for hours without spending any money, ha ha).

As for staff, no ambition, as little as needed, she'd be with her sister. And I can help with budget, strategy, errands.

Actually my question was more aimed at, where to find businesses, through agencies any specific direction?

 

3 hours ago, NiwPix said:

2. Given the lack of previous experience it would definitely make sense to look for something that's already established. However, since a small coffee shop is fairly simple, it would be best if she works at a coffee shop somewhere for a few months. It would help aaaaaalot.
 

Point taken.

 

3 hours ago, NiwPix said:

3. Which target group? Don't count on the farang. They are a minority here and don't have much influence in bringing friends and family to the shop. And many come and go. Unless you'll be in a tourist area, where your shop just needs to look appealing and clean. In that case you could do well with foreigners / tourists.
I would however stick with focus on Thais ( but keep it convenient for foreigners as well...ie English menu as well ): Thais are a majority here ( d'oh :) and usually have friends and family around...post pictures etc on social media. Treat them well and they'll be long time repeat customers.

I don't agree totally here. Certainly wouldn't target tourist farang in Kao Sarn or Lower Sukhumvit, but residential areas with farang, are an indicator of thai wealth which allows prices to go from 30 baht for a coffee to 50 baht and are more likely to see thai people walking in as they can afford it, have the time to sit around or maybe have a meeting.

I was thinking of a place below a large condo in a residential area (On Nut?), with a daily flow of commuters, thai and non.

3 hours ago, NiwPix said:

4. Questions to ask? Do you mean if you want to take over an existing business? If that is the case, basically the common sense things:
Monthly income ( you'll probably receive a bit higher number that actual income or the highest number the shop ever made.
Monthly expenses: be prepared many things won't be mentioned and you'll definitely have more expenses in the coming months.
Accounting cost will be veeeery low. Don't worry about it ( unless your planning a big scale coffee shop and making it a company )

5. Besides a business license ( you'll probably go with sole proprietorship ), nothing I can think of. You miiiight need a health department license, but not sure if a coffee shop needs to have it. Costs roughly ฿3000 per year.

Thanks. Do you think one could hope of seeing some evidence of sales and costs? Or that's too much to expect?

What is usually a reasonable question to ask regarding running costs and revenue? Monthly? Daily? Yearly?

And do you ask about gross revenue or profit, or both?

3 hours ago, NiwPix said:

6. Mafia / police could care less about a small coffeeshop ( as far as I am aware of ). They're more interested in the alcohol and prostitution side of things.
Make sure the building you are renting is leak free and that the electricity can support several electrical items ( coffee machines use ~3000 watt. A cake fridge about ~1000 watt ) that itself is already quite a bit. Imagine a microwave to heat up food or deep fryer or a blender to mix drinks. You certainly don't want the breakers to pop. Or that during rainy season water drips onto anything electrical.
Another pitfall: staff. Goooood luck finding AND keeping staff more than 3 months. Assuming you will need staff, this will probably be your biggest headache once up and running.

Thanks, lots of useful info. Hadn't thought of the police. What's the point about staff? I heard of that before, why is it? It makes me laugh...

 

And also thanks for all the additional points. If we go ahead I'll send her to you in Ubon for apprenticeship a month or two, you won't have to pay for her work, how does it sound? :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Thomas99

[oldcarguy]

I have said this on many threads like this ....

 

That I wish there was a business plan template already made up  that you could add too or cross some things out ,

 

it may not be perfect but it would give them a starting place to think it out.....

 

just one thing probably not mentioned is what do you do with "old" coffee after a couple hours , same with other stuff that is left over,

it is a cost with no payback  , 

 

So if you are really going to do this ,  share with us the list of expenses  you can think of , and also what extra things she can sell that go with coffee  like cake or cookies ,   and  even things like nail clippers and hair clips, something she can hang on her cart etc

 

my friend buys nailclippers for 5 baht and sells for 20 baht at her small store.......small "earners" like that add up....

 

Post the expense list when you make it , with or without numbers.....

 

 

[Thomas99]

1 minute ago, oldcarguy said:

I have said this on many threads like this ....

 

That I wish there was a business plan template already made up  that you could add too or cross some things out ,

 

it may not be perfect but it would give them a starting place to think it out.....

 

just one thing probably not mentioned is what do you do with "old" coffee after a couple hours , same with other stuff that is left over,

it is a cost with no payback  , 

 

So if you are really going to do this ,  share with us the list of expenses  you can think of , and also what extra things she can sell that go with coffee  like cake or cookies ,   and  even things like nail clippers and hair clips, something she can hang on her cart etc

 

my friend buys nailclippers for 5 baht and sells for 20 baht at her small store.......small "earners" like that add up....

 

Post the expense list when you make it , with or without numbers.....

 

 

Tx, when I get to the expenses list I will share with you, maybe not publicly.

A business plan will be produced too.

I'll eat all the leftovers :) :) and pay. ha ha ha

[lkn]

26 minutes ago, Thomas99 said:

Do you think one could hope of seeing some evidence of sales and costs? Or that's too much to expect?

Probably if they think that you are serious, but for you to prove that, may require an initial payment.

 

Though for starters, you can go to the place and stay a few hours to see if what they claim seems believable, i.e. number of customers, orders, how much staff is working (salary expenses), and you can probably get a good guestimate of rent and electricity.

 

[lkn]

Definitely be sure to have a good selection of cakes, especially cheesecake!

 

[oldcarguy]

Here is the million $$$$$ idea......

 

a board game like Monopoly that teaches you small business problems

 

you go around the board and have problems and successes with the cards you picked ,

 

like:  "milk sour  need to throw away , go back 2 steps"

 

when you make the Million , send me my cut :)   5555

 

 

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

Thomas - I don't know that you can introduce an entrepreneurial spirit or desire into a person. Without that inner spark, it is not destined to go well and even with the inner spark, there are many hurdles to success... If you look at the general population, most people are worker bees and they would not be happy with the weight of a business to run... you might be just setting her up for failure and that might ultimately be a more unhappy experience... go for happiness instead. 

 

You probably see a discontented worker and [isn't that most people] and want to do something to help her out and are kindly willing to use your funds to do this... but, maybe there are other ways to use your funds to accomplish this to a limited extent... if the idea is to make her life better and happier, find something that she enjoys, it does not have to be connected to productivity and advancement as we see it in Western terms. It could be a vacation or a trip home to visit her kid, or even a nice television set... since the idea in a larger sense is to use your funds to make her life just a bit more pleasant... if you are not sure - ask her... if you had $xxx - what would you do?