Dozens of aboriginal Australians walk out of meeting at Uluru in dispute over recognition

[steven100]

12 hours ago, ljd1308 said:

FYI:

 

This cannot be over-emphasized—the Australian government literally kidnapped these children from their parents as a matter of policy. White welfare officers, often supported by police, would descend on Aboriginal camps, round up all the children, separate the ones with light-coloured skin, bundle them into trucks and take them away. If their parents protested they were held at bay by police.^[38]

please read post #7  .....  similar circumstances ....?    stolen generation =  removed from drunken abusive parents and given housing, schooling, food and medical. They were better off as how do you think they would have ended up  ?   no schooling, no medical, no nothing ..... 

[steven100]

10 minutes ago, ljd1308 said:

Wow, the ignorance and racism are strong with you. Well done.

 

You asked to be told if anything was incorrect, yes, yes all of it was incorrect and you are clearly not a very intelligent person.

I see, so they were all in schools, had access to medical, accomodation, clothing, weren't living in a community of disfunctional aborigines  ?   so everything was rosy ? pls read post #31 ... my thought exactly. 

anyway ... we agree that we disagree.

Edited May 26, 2017 by steven100

[giddyup]

15 minutes ago, ljd1308 said:

Wow, the ignorance and racism are strong with you. Well done.

 

You asked to be told if anything was incorrect, yes, yes all of it was incorrect and you are clearly not a very intelligent person.

You know categorically that aborigines don't break into airfields to steal fuel for sniffing? Next you'll deny that aborigine reserves had a huge problem with petrol sniffers.

Edited May 26, 2017 by giddyup

[F4UCorsair]

16 hours ago, onthesoi said:

So where is the 2017 equivalent of Ellis Island where the Abos can show up, start a new life and prosper?

The south pole??

[giddyup]

15 minutes ago, ljd1308 said:

Do you mean the communities the government is now trying to close to force the Aboriginal people off the land?

Name them.

[giddyup]

17 minutes ago, ljd1308 said:

No, the Mesopotamians "discovered" the wheel...Europeans haven't in 50000 years, must be a record.

 

I literally have no idea what point you are making, is it that everybody apart from ancient middle eastern civilisations have not discovered the wheel? A very strange point to make.....

Not sure what aborigines would have used a wheel for anyway. What would they use to pull a cart, kangaroos?

[F4UCorsair]

7 minutes ago, giddyup said:

You know categorically that aborigines don't break into airfields to steal fuel for sniffing? Next you'll deny that aborigine reserves had a huge problem with petrol sniffers.

 

I know categorically that they do, or certainly did when I was a young pilot in the Northern Territory some years back.  Our fuel dumps at aboriginal communities had to be made of double high tensile chain wire, with a wire 'roof, in an attempt to prevent theft, and I have to say a futile attempt to prevent theft, largely used for sniffing.  

 

When I was a flying Doctor pilot, I flew dozens of evacuation missions with mostly comatose kids, rendered so by sniffing petrol.

 

I doubt anything has changed.

[ELVIS123456]

I wont bother responding the the bleeding heart left-wingers, but I will say that as someone that dealt directly with the formation and management (and later abolition) of ATSIC, there is no amount of money in the world that will improve things for many aboriginals - all attempts to 'redress' things (that dont need redressing) have been a black hole of wasted expenditures.  Yes, there are many aboriginal people who deserve some support and recognition - but there are far too many that deserve nothing.

 

A very senior exec in ATSIC told me in the mid-90s that it would be cheaper to give every aboriginal (25%+) a $million to 'go away' and never make any claim for money/support again, and it would save a lot of money in the long run.  He was dead right. Probably still valid today.

 

 The 25% (genetic) is what should be used to determine if a person is 'real' aboriginal - many people are far less than that (some zero) but they are 'accepted' as aboriginal in Aust (for welfare benefits). Unfortunately anyone attempting to deny someone is a 'real' aboriginal (eg. Bolt) runs the risk of being determined to be a racist - and could be charged and sent to jail.  That is right - for those unaware - in Aust it is illegal to 'offend' someone by insinuating that they are not a real aboriginal (at least one parent/grandparent). If I wrote and punlished this in Australia I could be charged.  Aboriginality is a protected and funded 'industry' and this claim for 'recognition' (or a treaty) is nothing more than an attempt to get more money/support in the future. 

 

My ancestors were killed and/or driven out of Britannia by the Romans. I want recognition and compensation.

 

[ljd1308]

This entire thread saddens me, such crap written by so many posters who clearly have no idea what they are talking about.

 

"I once saw an Aboriginal do something bad....so all Aboriginals do the exact same thing and are all bad"

 

The lack of logic, compassion or simple decency is a sad reflection on many of the posts here.

 

Good luck with your ignorant hate filled lives.

[ljd1308]

58 minutes ago, biggles45 said:

" I am just guessing because my mother was born around 1950...again, don't actually know because she was taken from her family"

 

It is a tragedy that your mother was separated from her family but it would appear that you have benefited from the situation ? Perhaps better education and opportunities were available to you as a result of this. Look at many of the "stolen generation" today and their children and they are doing well in comparison to those who were left behind. In fact in the last few years several Aboriginal communities have asked the State governments to take their children into care, but they said no for fear of another outcry. 

Dear god, I have only just seen this!!!

 

You think the stolen generation benefited from being taken from their families? You think I personally have?!?!?!? Please explain how you think this happened....I would like actual facts. Maybe provide an example of several Aboriginal communities that have asked to have their children stolen?

 

Do you have kids? Maybe someone should take them off you....they would have a better life, wouldn't they? 

 

 

I wasn't going to post in this thread again, but stupidity such as yours just needs to be called out.

[ljd1308]

59 minutes ago, steven100 said:

I see, so they were all in schools, had access to medical, accomodation, clothing, weren't living in a community of disfunctional aborigines  ?   so everything was rosy ? pls read post #31 ... my thought exactly. 

anyway ... we agree that we disagree.

Mate, just stop....You literally have no idea of what you speak.

 

Maybe do your own research rather than making things up? Do you even know where most of them were taken?

 

They may be your "thoughts exactly" but they are the thoughts of an idiot.

[Scott]

Numerous posts have been removed.   Continued racist remarks and trolling will not be permitted and will result in suspensions.

 

Please re-read the OP and stick to the topic.

 

You have been warned.  

 

[F4UCorsair]

8 minutes ago, ljd1308 said:

see quote below my post

 

 

Walking out of a meeting achieves little to nothing, and those who did so, have probably cost themselves another few years in advancing their cause, but calling for a referendum on having an elected body of aboriginals to advise parliament, would NEVER get up in a referendum anyway.  There are more than enough advisers currently, costing the taxpayer way too much, for no result.   If the billions thrown at the aboriginal problem in Australia had been spent on the rest of the population, we'd all have PhD's from Harvard, multi million $$ houses, and driving Rolls Royces.

 

From memory there have only been about 7 or 8 of the 44 referenda held in Australia that have been carried/successful.

 

Dear god, I have only just seen this!!!

 

You think the stolen generation benefited from being taken from their families? You think I personally have?!?!?!? Please explain how you think this happened....I would like actual facts. Maybe provide an example of several Aboriginal communities that have asked to have their children stolen?

 

Do you have kids? Maybe someone should take them off you....they would have a better life, wouldn't they? 

 

 

I wasn't going to post in this thread again, but stupidity such as yours just needs to be called out.

 

Many did benefit.   As an example, Harold Thomas, the guy who 'designed' the aboriginal flag was adopted by a minister of religion and family, and was given an education and stable home life, rather than one of drunkenness and abuse.   He has a degree in fine arts, and is an accomplished artist, watercolours.   I have a painting of his on my wall bought 20 years ago, about 1.4 X .9 metres, magnificent piece of work, paperbarks in a swamp with a couple of water birds.

 

The question of whether the kids would have been better with their drunken, dysfunctional parents on a community, or fringe of a town, perpetuating the cycle of violence and abuse, versus having a stable upbringing with no abuse, etc., is a difficult one, but to remove them was the thinking of the day, long before we had the services available to put management and monitoring in place.   On balance, I think removal was right AT THE TIME.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2017 by F4UCorsair

[steven100]

33 minutes ago, ljd1308 said:

Mate, just stop....You literally have no idea of what you speak.

 

Maybe do your own research rather than making things up? Do you even know where most of them were taken?

 

They may be your "thoughts exactly" but they are the thoughts of an idiot.

I will not stop. You have your thoughts on it, I have mine.

As I said ....  we agree on nothing obviously. But i respect your opinion.

Edited May 26, 2017 by steven100

[seajae]

dont you just love it when people that have never even visited a camp or lived with them try to tell everyone else they dont know what they are talking about. I worked around and inside aboriginal communities in outback Qld, was a very eye opening experience as I saw first hand how they lived, I didnt just read about it in the papers/internet. I have had many aboriginal friends over the years and I do have a great deal of respect for those that still know about their traditional life and have made something of themselves through their own work ethics. People need to know all the truth and not just what is pushed by the activists, usually they are the ones with very little aboriginal blood and have very fair skin and little aboriginal facial features. You also find that their families are in very good paying jobs and live a very well to do lifestyle by playing the aboriginal card while those with much more aboriginal heritage get very little or see none of the money. 

Yes there were a lot of things that could have been done differently in the past but they did not have the values we do today, people seem to forget this fact and try to push todays ethics on what was done. Instead of just quoting one side of the facts people need to look at both sides, I can guarantee that a lot of what happens with aboriginals today is much of their own making and it cannot be blamed on the past. I could go into details as I have seen so much but it would also be a very long list. As I have said unless people actually see these things for themselves they will simply believe what they read and ignore the truth. Personally I would like to see a way that all aboriginals benefited and had a chance to make something of themselves but that would also require many of them to actually stand for themselves and accept responsibility for their own actions. The way it is now very few see any benefits as it is all taken by the aboriginals that are supposed to be their leaders and never reaches those that really need the help, much like Thailand really. popularity means you can do as you please and bugger everyone else.

 

 

 

[Scott]

Posts removed.  

 

I note some people still can't figure out what the OP says and stay on topic.  

 

[Baerboxer]

21 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

.......... but government organisers did not know who they were     

 

Until Australia do something profound to give these people their dignity back in exchange for their land and culture that was taken, this problem will persist. I don't know what the solution is, but if it is to be effective it will likely cost a huge amount of money, and Australia has the natural resources to do it.

 

You're absolutely right. 

 

They are at the bottom of society because they were persecuted, murdered, discriminated against for many many years after the colonists invaded. It's hardly surprising that they haven't recovered from what the "civilized christian" invaders did.

 

Change has been slow because many of the "new" Australians don't really want to change.

[giddyup]

19 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

You're absolutely right. 

 

They are at the bottom of society because they were persecuted, murdered, discriminated against for many many years after the colonists invaded. It's hardly surprising that they haven't recovered from what the "civilized christian" invaders did.

 

Change has been slow because many of the "new" Australians don't really want to change.

Aborigines need to accept that the past is exactly that and help bring about their own changes and adapt to the 21st century. All the money in the world isn't going to help if there is no willingness to adapt.  

Edited May 26, 2017 by giddyup

[thaibeachlovers]

I don't have a realistic solution, and nothing tried in the recent past has worked.

Perhaps it's time to give them what they want, a land to call their own, and leave them to it. I doubt they'd end up happy, but then it would be on them instead of whitey.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

You're absolutely right. 

 

They are at the bottom of society because they were persecuted, murdered, discriminated against for many many years after the colonists invaded. It's hardly surprising that they haven't recovered from what the "civilized christian" invaders did.

 

Change has been slow because many of the "new" Australians don't really want to change.

Um, the "civilised Christian" invaders were actually the lowest in British society, and were treated as badly if not worse than the Aborigines back home. It is no wonder they treated a people they considered to be lower than them badly.

Life was short and brutish for the working class back then, an it produced brutal people. If they weren't in jail, many of them were in the British army which is why the British were able to conquer so much of the planet.

[halloween]

...... but apart from sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the gubbahs done for us?

[onthesoi]

8 hours ago, giddyup said:

They are already there. You can lead a horse to water etc.

 

The Abos are not livestock, your choice of words is telling.

 

If their current situation is so great Im assuming you and the rest of white Australia will be happy to swap places & live under an Abo government.....it must be their turn by now right?

Edited May 26, 2017 by onthesoi

[onthesoi]

8 minutes ago, halloween said:

I remember when an aboriginal land grant was handed back near Newcastle. The first thing they tried to do was sell it. Bad luck, the legislators saw that one coming.

Right, so the land was handed back but they didnt actually own it....white Australia still in control?

[halloween]

Just now, onthesoi said:

Right, so the land was handed back but they didnt actually own it....white Australia still in control?

Actually it was handed back to the aboriginal people as a whole, not to the individuals who wanted to sell it. They claimed it on the basis of their ancestry - given that why should they have the right to deny it to their descendants?

 

Where do government get to "take a turn" based on race?

[onthesoi]

3 minutes ago, halloween said:

Actually it was handed back to the aboriginal people as a whole, not to the individuals who wanted to sell it. They claimed it on the basis of their ancestry - given that why should they have the right to deny it to their descendants?

 

Where do government get to "take a turn" based on race?

 

Right, so once the dust settled they didnt actual own or control any land.

 

The white australians have taken every turn at government based on race since they first landed in prison ships....really?...You didnt know that?

[Baerboxer]

58 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Um, the "civilised Christian" invaders were actually the lowest in British society, and were treated as badly if not worse than the Aborigines back home. It is no wonder they treated a people they considered to be lower than them badly.

Life was short and brutish for the working class back then, an it produced brutal people. If they weren't in jail, many of them were in the British army which is why the British were able to conquer so much of the planet.

 

The first to arrive weren't the dregs. They came later when Britain decided Australia would make a good penal colony and transportation was an alternative to the mass hangings that occurred in Georgian times when the capital offenses filled the law books and the starving poor were hung for stealing a loaf. Penal colonies were also a good place to send political opponents and those fleeing official oppression, although that backfired occasionally! Ordinary people throughout Britain were treated wickedly during that period by their "betters" and real social change didn't occur until the monumental catalyst of WW1 and WW11.

 

However, Australia, or shall we say the new Australia, has been very slow to do much about the way the indigenous people were, and still are, treated. So to NZ and Canada, not to mention the US.

 

Being on the end of treatment many suffered at that time may well have brutalized many. But that's no excuse for that behavior and certainly not for the time being taken to redress it.

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, giddyup said:

Aborigines need to accept that the past is exactly that and help bring about their own changes and adapt to the 21st century. All the money in the world isn't going to help if there is no willingness to adapt.  

 

But there vision of change, adaption and transformation may not necessarily be the same as the version of the relative new comers.

 

Same is true for native Americans, Canadians, and Maoris. Why do we, Westerners, always assume that all other cultures should share our vision i.e. the 21 st century living we have created? 

[halloween]

7 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

Right, so once the dust settled they didnt actual own or control any land.

 

The white australians have taken every turn at government based on race since they first landed in prison ships....really?...You didnt know that?

The both own and control, they don't have the right to sell what belongs to future generations. Is that so hard to understand, or are you trolling?

My question was, where else do different races "get a turn" at government as you suggested?  another attempt at trolling?

[giddyup]

27 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

The Abos are not livestock, your choice of words is telling.

 

If their current situation is so great Im assuming you and the rest of white Australia will be happy to swap places & live under an Abo government.....it must be their turn by now right?

I wasn't making the comparison between aborigines and livestock, as you well know. All the money in the world can be thrown at the problem, but there has to be some willingness to change and get off the welfare teat or things will forever stay the same. An aboriginal government, please, get serious.

Edited May 26, 2017 by giddyup

[giddyup]

29 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

But there vision of change, adaption and transformation may not necessarily be the same as the version of the relative new comers.

 

Same is true for native Americans, Canadians, and Maoris. Why do we, Westerners, always assume that all other cultures should share our vision i.e. the 21 st century living we have created? 

Unfortunately the society we live in dictates the norms and what is acceptable and what is not. Do you think the aborigines would be prepared to live on native lands, fend for themselves, and receive no regular government welfare checks? Not on your nelly! So their only other choice is to adapt to a civilised way of life.

Edited May 26, 2017 by giddyup