British dual nationals asked to change names when applying for a new British passport

[nellyp]

here is an update. i am going to have to change his name in the UK by deed poll. Luckily this is not as complicated as I first thought as it does not have to be an enrolled deed poll for a passport.

 

However. It now transpires that as my son's Thai passport has run out, they will not give him a new passport unless I am there to sign. There is (apparently) a consent form I can send (there is mention of it on the TMFO website with a clickable link that does nothing), but I am having no luck tracking that down, and I am unsure if it can be notorized (as requested) in the UK or whether that has to be done in Thailand. This I will need to do for both of my sons, so I am hoping the one form will suffice.

 

If anybody has experience of this I would be grateful for any pointers

[nellyp]

Here is a reply I have had off the British Embassy in BKK. I have asked them where I can find the rule that states this about the middle names as I was asked to supply this for the passport office, and have not been able to get anybody to point me to this rule/law

 

Dear Mr Neil,

 

Thank you for contacting consular section at British embassy Bangkok dating 3 March 2018.

Further to your email, for Thai people you are only allow to have one middle name. since the name on UK birth certificate have two middle names. It would cause him the difficulty in confirm his identity. You may consider change the name by deed poll. This is because one person supposed to have the same name no matter wherever they live. If your son going to travel to the UK he will also need to Thai passport in order to leave the country. And if the name not match he won’t be able to leave the country.

 

I’m really sorry but the only solution that you have at the moment is to change your son name.

 

Yours Sincerely,

Vee

[nellyp]

Out of interest i thought I would show you this email from the passport office too. As you can see there is no mention of changing the UK name by deed poll, though it does mention proof from th eother country. This is why I have asked the British Embassy to supply me with information about where this evidence is available as they seem to know it. The bottom part about "own merit" is frightening in the extreme. Too many variables that could go again'st you

 

 

Thank you for your enquiry regarding your son's passport.
 

 

Customers who hold a foreign passport in a name which differs to the British Passport application must align this before applying for their UK passport.

HMPO is aware that this may not be possible for citizens of some countries due to laws prohibiting changes of name.

You should submit evidence from the authorities of the relevant country to confirm the name on the foreign passport cannot be changed.

If no such letter can be provided, you should set this out in writing and HM Passport office will consider each case on its own merits.
 

 

 

 

Thank you,
 

 

Customer Service E-Mail Team

[nellyp]

The latest twist in this long running saga is a great one. After taking advice and applying to change my son's name in the UkKby deed poll, I received the deed poll and sent the consent latter to my wife to sign only discover a little caveat on the instructions on how to use the deed poll. Apparently, as my son is applying for the new passport outside the UK, the deed poll needs to be signed by myself and witnessed in Thailand. Meaning i will need to fly to Thailand to sort this out.

 

It is increasingly looking like I am going to have to get my son home with his Thai passport and a tourist visa, then try to sort this out in the UK.

 

This really is becoming the most complicated thing I have ever had to do

 

 

[brewsterbudgen]

Thanks for keeping us updated!

 

[onionluke]

Hi All ,

 

,my son has dual nationality and I just last week applied for his UK passport renewal . I sent to HMPO Belfast his expired UK passport and his valid Thai passport.  Today they returned his Thai passport with a letter stating his application has been halted as his Thai passport name differs from his UK passport. The difference is his Thai passport has an extra name , Whipu . The expired one  is his third UK passport , he is twelve years old.

My problem is that I have purchased tickets for mid July to fly from the UK to Thailand then back to the UK and his ticket is in his UK passport name. I live in Glasgow and will visit the Thai consulate here tomorrow. 

Does anyone here have any advice as to how to fix this? 

If I can change the name on his ticket to suit his Thai passport will he be allowed back into the UK without his UK passport on his return ?  

Thanks in advance for your good help.

 

onionluke

 

 

[Arkady]

5 hours ago, onionluke said:

Hi All ,

 

,my son has dual nationality and I just last week applied for his UK passport renewal . I sent to HMPO Belfast his expired UK passport and his valid Thai passport.  Today they returned his Thai passport with a letter stating his application has been halted as his Thai passport name differs from his UK passport. The difference is his Thai passport has an extra name , Whipu . The expired one  is his third UK passport , he is twelve years old.

My problem is that I have purchased tickets for mid July to fly from the UK to Thailand then back to the UK and his ticket is in his UK passport name. I live in Glasgow and will visit the Thai consulate here tomorrow. 

Does anyone here have any advice as to how to fix this? 

If I can change the name on his ticket to suit his Thai passport will he be allowed back into the UK without his UK passport on his return ?  

Thanks in advance for your good help.

 

onionluke

 

 

You didn’t specify whether the additional name in the Thai passport was a middle name or not. If so, it should not affect the airline ticket, as these are normally issued using just first and last name. The problem is going to be getting the airline to allow him to board in Bangkok without a valid British passport or UK visa in his Thai. UK immigration will let him in on an expired UK passport, since that is adequate proof of citizenship, if he can get past the airline. It might be worth checking with the airline in Bangkok whether they would permit boarding in this circumstance.

 

The permanent fix will be to either change his UK or Thai name. I think you can change his name by deed poll In the UK in a matter of weeks. Then you could apply in person for a passport using the express service. A Thai name can usually be changed on the spot at the district office but you only do it in Thailand. Another option might be to apply for a Certificate of Entitlement or UK right of abode, in his Thai passport. This is now only available to UK citizens without a valid UK passport. It would be expensive and only a temporary fix, as it is only valid for the life of the passport and has to be cancelled before s new British passport can be issued, so only worth investigating, if all else fails. I am not of the procedure to apply for this in the UK.

[onionluke]

Hi Arkady , many thanks for your helpful reply.

 

It looks Whipu is his first name on his Thai passport. 

I have contacted Glasgow Thai consulate this morning but unfortunatley they only deal in Thai visas.

I am on hold with the London Royal Thai Embassy as I type , their website says a change of name must be made in Thailand with an online passport renewal made online first.

I will phone HMPO this morning and post details later .

 

ol 

[onionluke]

Hi All and especially  Arkady

 

Firstly I phoned Royal Thai Embassy London but couldn't get through after one hour plus on hold.

Secondly I checked the Thai Embassy London website and read that a name change must be applied for in Thailand .

Thirdly I phoned HMPO Belfast and they explained why Joseph's application was on hold and his Thai passport had been returned , to align the names . I explained all, with information relating to his previous UK passport and so on in reference to the letter of application on hold . They were by the book unable to help further after sending an email to the  Examination  Department  who will then contact the Policy department.

I asked about reply time and was told there could be no timeline and to await a phone call from them.

Fourthly I phoned the HMVI visas and immigration in Glasgow , who were very helpful and talked me through the policy and changes and our predicament ,they recommended we go straight to the Glasgow Passport office and request a supervisor attend to our case ,

Finally at the Glasgow Passport Office the officers took the case into hand , and with all our sons previous UK passports , Thai passports , HK id cards , Thai id cards and young Scot card came to the conclusion he must change his name on his Thai passport to align it to his UK passport name. 

Then by a last grasp for logic I pointed out that my son's last two  Thai passports had a note in the first page opposite the information page stating :Also known as J......... M ........:  The Glasgow officer then decided to send his Thai passport, with an explanation note, back to Belfast to say the two passports and identities were aligned . The Glasgow officer assured us that this would settle the case.

I was told to await confirmation from Belfast

[onionluke]

3 hours ago, onionluke said:

Hi All and especially  Arkady

 

Firstly I phoned Royal Thai Embassy London but couldn't get through after one hour plus on hold.

Secondly I checked the Thai Embassy London website and read that a name change must be applied for in Thailand .

Thirdly I phoned HMPO Belfast and they explained why Joseph's application was on hold and his Thai passport had been returned , to align the names . I explained all, with information relating to his previous UK passport and so on in reference to the letter of application on hold . They were by the book unable to help further after sending an email to the  Examination  Department  who will then contact the Policy department.

I asked about reply time and was told there could be no timeline and to await a phone call from them.

Fourthly I phoned the HMVI visas and immigration in Glasgow , who were very helpful and talked me through the policy and changes and our predicament ,they recommended we go straight to the Glasgow Passport office and request a supervisor attend to our case ,

Finally at the Glasgow Passport Office the officers took the case into hand , and with all our sons previous UK passports , Thai passports , HK id cards , Thai id cards and young Scot card came to the conclusion he must change his name on his Thai passport to align it to his UK passport name. 

Then by a last grasp for logic I pointed out that my son's last two  Thai passports had a note in the first page opposite the information page stating :Also known as J......... M ........:  The Glasgow officer then decided to send his Thai passport, with an explanation note, back to Belfast to say the two passports and identities were aligned . The Glasgow officer assured us that this would settle the case.

I was told to await confirmation from Belfast

Excuse the pompous tone . ah didnae mean to sound like that.

[MUSTYJACK]

We have just returned from an unplanned and expensive trip to Thailand from the UK in order for my wife to change her surname to her married name so that she can renew her UK passport.

 

We were married in the UK over 20 years ago and my wife obtained British nationality along with a british passport shortly after that. As the marriage was never registered in Thailand she never changed the name on her Tabien Baan, ID card or bank accounts.

 

This autumn her UK passport is up for renewal and we encountered this recent regulation that for those holding dual nationality, surnames must be aligned in both passports. Despite meetings with out MP, who petitioned the Home Office on our behalf, and many phone calls to the Passport Office itself, they would not make an exception. Only if the Thai Embassy in London would issue a letter saying that it was impossible for the surname to be changed would they make an exception and renew my wifes passport.

 

 The Thai Embassy would not issue that letter, the letter they did issue said that before changing a name on a Thai passport, the name must be changed on the Tabien Baan and the ID card, and the Embassy could not do that. That had to be done in Thailand.

 

With a British passport of less than 6 months validity, it can be difficult to guarantee check in at an airport, and so we checked the airlines and found one that would accept a booking with a UK passport with less than 6 months validity at the time of the return flight (Emirates)

 

The paperwork requirements for the name change are rather onerous and time consuming, there are agencies in the UK that will do all this for you, but they are expensive and it is not difficult to do yourself.

 

The original marriage certificate must be legalised, this entails sending it to the UK government legalisation office where it will be checked before being stamped and signed (apostilled) and then returned. (£30 or £40 per document) It can be arranged online,

 

 https://www.gov.uk/get-document-legalised

 

Once returned, it must be translated by a translation service (around £60) approved by the Thai Embassy in London and then sent off to the Thai Embassy where it will be stamped and signed again, (around £20 or £25) this stamp confirming that the UK government apostille is "kosher".

 

All this took about 3 weeks.

 

Eventually, these documents are returned and can be taken to Thailand.

 

Once in Thailand, these signed documents must be taken to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs out at the Kremlin in Chaeng Wattana so that they can be stamped and signed yet again by the Thais. ( a few hundred Baht) This time verifying that the signature of the officer in the Thai Embassy in London is correct.

 

My British passport also had to be copied and the copy certified as a true copy by the British Embassy in Bangkok. An appointment needs to be made for this service, and it costs around 1100b. This true copy also has to be stamped at Chaeng Wattana.

 

The procedures at Chaeng Wattana take a couple of days, and the queue to present documents is around 3 hours. They are helpful, flexible and efficient, and there are translation services ( to translate the British passport copy)  and coffee shops and canteens on site. I found Thai bureaucracy much easier to deal with than the UK systems of obstructive and faceless contact. You are always face to face with the person you are dealing with in Thailand.

 

Once the documents have been stamped at Chaeng Wattana, it is then a lengthy but relatively simple process of taking them all along to the amphur office, in our case it was Khlong Toei in Bangkok, and going through the name change procedure. I had to give my wife permission to take my name by signing a witnessed affidavit and then after 3 hours of signing, stamping, witnessing, photocopying and confirming, my wife was presented with an elaborate certificate confirming the change of surname. At all times the staff were polite, friendly and flexible, no money was asked for, and no difficulties or problems found.

 

After the name change was complete, my wife moved to the next desk and 5 minutes later had a new ID card.

 

The next day she took the ID card to the passport office downstairs at the Khlong Toei MRT station, and 2 days after that her new passport arrived by post.

 

It was all done within 9 working days.

 

I find it shameful that the UK home office, who know exactly who has dual nationality, did not think fit to inform them of this rule change. That would have saved us and possible many others the expense and inconvenience of a 14000 mile trip to satisfy the bureaucratic requirements of some deslbound civil servant in Westminster.

 

When I spoke to the Home Office about this, I asked what would happen to people who could not make the trip, either they were too old, too poor, had kids to look after, or jobs to go to.

 

Their answer was simple. if there are no exceptions to the rule, ( other than threat of imprisonment, persecution etc) if someone cannot or will not change their name, then they must give up one of their nationalities.

 

 

 

 

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, MUSTYJACK said:

We have just returned from an unplanned and expensive trip to Thailand from the UK in order for my wife to change her surname to her married name so that she can renew her UK passport.

 

We were married in the UK over 20 years ago and my wife obtained British nationality along with a british passport shortly after that. As the marriage was never registered in Thailand she never changed the name on her Tabien Baan, ID card or bank accounts.

 

This autumn her UK passport is up for renewal and we encountered this recent regulation that for those holding dual nationality, surnames must be aligned in both passports. Despite meetings with out MP, who petitioned the Home Office on our behalf, and many phone calls to the Passport Office itself, they would not make an exception. Only if the Thai Embassy in London would issue a letter saying that it was impossible for the surname to be changed would they make an exception and renew my wifes passport.

 

 The Thai Embassy would not issue that letter, the letter they did issue said that before changing a name on a Thai passport, the name must be changed on the Tabien Baan and the ID card, and the Embassy could not do that. That had to be done in Thailand.

 

With a British passport of less than 6 months validity, it can be difficult to guarantee check in at an airport, and so we checked the airlines and found one that would accept a booking with a UK passport with less than 6 months validity at the time of the return flight (Emirates)

 

The paperwork requirements for the name change are rather onerous and time consuming, there are agencies in the UK that will do all this for you, but they are expensive and it is not difficult to do yourself.

 

The original marriage certificate must be legalised, this entails sending it to the UK government legalisation office where it will be checked before being stamped and signed (apostilled) and then returned. (£30 or £40 per document) It can be arranged online,

 

 https://www.gov.uk/get-document-legalised

 

Once returned, it must be translated by a translation service (around £60) approved by the Thai Embassy in London and then sent off to the Thai Embassy where it will be stamped and signed again, (around £20 or £25) this stamp confirming that the UK government apostille is "kosher".

 

All this took about 3 weeks.

 

Eventually, these documents are returned and can be taken to Thailand.

 

Once in Thailand, these signed documents must be taken to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs out at the Kremlin in Chaeng Wattana so that they can be stamped and signed yet again by the Thais. ( a few hundred Baht) This time verifying that the signature of the officer in the Thai Embassy in London is correct.

 

My British passport also had to be copied and the copy certified as a true copy by the British Embassy in Bangkok. An appointment needs to be made for this service, and it costs around 1100b. This true copy also has to be stamped at Chaeng Wattana.

 

The procedures at Chaeng Wattana take a couple of days, and the queue to present documents is around 3 hours. They are helpful, flexible and efficient, and there are translation services ( to translate the British passport copy)  and coffee shops and canteens on site. I found Thai bureaucracy much easier to deal with than the UK systems of obstructive and faceless contact. You are always face to face with the person you are dealing with in Thailand.

 

Once the documents have been stamped at Chaeng Wattana, it is then a lengthy but relatively simple process of taking them all along to the amphur office, in our case it was Khlong Toei in Bangkok, and going through the name change procedure. I had to give my wife permission to take my name by signing a witnessed affidavit and then after 3 hours of signing, stamping, witnessing, photocopying and confirming, my wife was presented with an elaborate certificate confirming the change of surname. At all times the staff were polite, friendly and flexible, no money was asked for, and no difficulties or problems found.

 

After the name change was complete, my wife moved to the next desk and 5 minutes later had a new ID card.

 

The next day she took the ID card to the passport office downstairs at the Khlong Toei MRT station, and 2 days after that her new passport arrived by post.

 

It was all done within 9 working days.

 

I find it shameful that the UK home office, who know exactly who has dual nationality, did not think fit to inform them of this rule change. That would have saved us and possible many others the expense and inconvenience of a 14000 mile trip to satisfy the bureaucratic requirements of some deslbound civil servant in Westminster.

 

When I spoke to the Home Office about this, I asked what would happen to people who could not make the trip, either they were too old, too poor, had kids to look after, or jobs to go to.

 

Their answer was simple. if there are no exceptions to the rule, ( other than threat of imprisonment, persecution etc) if someone cannot or will not change their name, then they must give up one of their nationalities.

 

I agree that the way it has been executed is shameful and think the whole thing is rather pointless anyway.  The least they could have done, knowing this would cause a great deal of inconvenience, would have been to have given a grace period with plenty of publicity that the change was going to happen.

 

At least someone in your wife's position who was unable to make the trip to Thailand to change her name would be able to renounce her Thai nationality at the Thai embassy.  However, I suspect it is a rather lengthy process as the embassy has to send the application to the Interior Ministry in Bangkok for processing.  I believe it should also be possible to change the surname back to the maiden name in the UK by deed poll which could be the cheapest and easiest option for someone living in the UK, if they don't mind reverting to a foreign surname.

[MUSTYJACK]

Ones nationality is a very personal attribute, it is part of ones identity, ones personality, and to be forced to give it up by the authorities of another country would go against every grain of ones being.

 

To ask someone to give that up is a very big ask, and I'm sure if it went to law it would justifiably and sensibly  be found to be in breach of ones human rights. 

 

I have anecdotal evidence that another Thai lady married to a westerner in the UK came up against this "same surname in both passport"  nonsense. Her husband applied online to renew her passport and it was sent back with a refusal.  His wife then applied by post, but didnt tick the box saying that she had dual nationality. The passport was renewed without any query.

 

When we approached our MP with this problem, he at first thought we had misunderstood the regulations. He couldn't believe that a British citizen could be made to undertake a journey of 14000 miles merely in order to renew the passport that she already possessed and was legally entitled to.

[Arkady]

18 hours ago, MUSTYJACK said:

Ones nationality is a very personal attribute, it is part of ones identity, ones personality, and to be forced to give it up by the authorities of another country would go against every grain of ones being.

 

To ask someone to give that up is a very big ask, and I'm sure if it went to law it would justifiably and sensibly  be found to be in breach of ones human rights. 

 

I have anecdotal evidence that another Thai lady married to a westerner in the UK came up against this "same surname in both passport"  nonsense. Her husband applied online to renew her passport and it was sent back with a refusal.  His wife then applied by post, but didnt tick the box saying that she had dual nationality. The passport was renewed without any query.

 

When we approached our MP with this problem, he at first thought we had misunderstood the regulations. He couldn't believe that a British citizen could be made to undertake a journey of 14000 miles merely in order to renew the passport that she already possessed and was legally entitled to.

They seem to have decided that they just don't care about these considerations at all.  That is the Theresa May inspired Home Office for you.  I have a friend in Bangkok who is a Brit but a naturalised Thai who got Thai nationality at the time that they still forced you to take a Thai name.  I warned him about this thing when he told me he needed to renew his British passport.  He did the same thing as the Thai woman you refer to by not ticking the box to say he had another nationality.  Amazingly his new British passport came with no problem.  I say amazingly because the staff at the outsourced passport office are supposed to check that the passport has a Thai visa in it and, if not, ask to see the passport the holder entered Thailand on.  For those living in the UK it is of course easier to hide their other nationality and many naturalised Brits may have to or choose to renounce their original nationality.  So they might not query it, if a naturalised Brit says they don't have another nationality.  On the other hand you are providing false information to obtain a passport which might have some repercussions, if you are caught.  The passport office might also decide to query it and ask the certificate of renunciation of the former nationality. 

[MUSTYJACK]

Exactly, it is a criminal offence to deceive the authorities, and in this age of terrorism, money laundering and identity theft the penalties if convicted can be severe. It is not worth the risk, and that is why we chose to go the legal route.

 

Deep in the bowels of their filing section the home office must surely have details of every dual national with a UK passport and it is only a matter of time before the next passport renewal application possibly  uncovers those who have made false declarations. 

[TCA]

21 hours ago, MUSTYJACK said:

When we approached our MP with this problem, he at first thought we had misunderstood the regulations. He couldn't believe that a British citizen could be made to undertake a journey of 14000 miles merely in order to renew the passport that she already possessed and was legally entitled to.

 

It's a ridiculous scenario. You have my sympathies. If my wife gets ILR and citizenship, we'll have the situation that if she wishes a UK passport in her married name (mine), she'll have to change her name in Thailand too, as everything so far (passport and settlement visas) are in her Thai name. 

 

Out of interest, given you had to make the trip to Thailand anyway because of this stupid rule, could you have achieved the same result by "getting married" at an amphur then doing the i.d card and other required changes to get the new passport?

 

Thereby cutting out the legalisation by the UK government, subsequent translation and sending to the Thai embassy and saving 3 weeks? 

   

[Arkady]

17 hours ago, MUSTYJACK said:

Exactly, it is a criminal offence to deceive the authorities, and in this age of terrorism, money laundering and identity theft the penalties if convicted can be severe. It is not worth the risk, and that is why we chose to go the legal route.

 

Deep in the bowels of their filing section the home office must surely have details of every dual national with a UK passport and it is only a matter of time before the next passport renewal application possibly  uncovers those who have made false declarations. 

 

Definitely not something you would want to get caught doing. But I doubt, if they have a database of dual nationals.  They should have one of naturalised Brits but they wouldn't know whether they had renounced their original nationality and some people have more than two nationalities. They also wouldn't know, in most cases, when Brits have naturalised as something else. But perhaps they are starting to do a big brother thing on dual nationals, since they seem to see them as some kind of a threat.

[MUSTYJACK]

Quote

Out of interest, given you had to make the trip to Thailand anyway because of this stupid rule, could you have achieved the same result by "getting married" at an amphur then doing the i.d card and other required changes to get the new passport?

I'm not certain. Before marrying in Thailand I would have been required to show proof (from the British Embassy I assume) that I was single and free to marry, maybe my birth certificate would have needed certifying, maybe I would have had to provide a police clearance certificate from the UK. But once married, then yes, my wife would have been able to change her name etc.

 

These days, proving and certifying ones identity and legal status is becoming more and more complicated and nobody seems to know the exact requirements. The Thai embassy in the UK told me that I would not be required to provide either a translation or a true copy of my passport, but the first thing I was asked for at the amphur was a translation and certified copy of my passport. 

 

The other small problem, was that the apostille from the UK, the stamp from the Thai embassy in London and the stamp from the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs were all attached to the original (UK) marriage certificate. The amphur wanted (were required to) keep that original. We said they couldnt have it as we might need it in the future in the UK,  and only after an hour or so of chin stroking, shoulder shrugging and phone calls by the amphur to a higher authority was the matter resolved in our favour. Then there followed another long period of multiple photocopying, witnessing and signing before we could move on to the next stage of the name change procedure.

 

Throughout all this the people at the amphur were friendly and flexible and wanted to help. It was all so different to my experiences at Thai immigration offices when renewing retirement visas and other requirements.

 

 

 

Quote

 But I doubt, if they have a database of dual nationals.  

 

I think they do, but it is only checked randomly against passport renewals.

 

In the past when my wife has renewed her passport, the application form asks if another passport is held, and in what nationality, but they have not asked for it to be sent with the application form.

The latest application form asks for the foreign passport to be sent along with the application, and there is a stern warning about the criminality of any incorrect information.

 

I am in the UK at the moment, and almost daily there are news items highlighting the inefficiency and incompetence of the home office. It really is unfit for purpose, and has been for many many years.

 

To anybody with marriage or immigration or visa issues reading this thread, please get "all your ducks in a row" before the regulations become so onerous as to be impossible to fulfil.

 

Have a read of this ....

 

 

https://ukimmigrationjusticewatch.com/2017/05/09/inbuilt-obstacles-and-mechanisms-that-the-home-office-use-to-defeat-deny-and-deter-immigration-claims/

 

 

and have a look at this website.

 

 

immigrationboards dot com

 

and in particular, 

 

immigrationboards dot com / british-citizenship/new-policy-regarding-passport-names-for-dual-nationals-t216754.html

 

and weep for some of the people caught up in insoluble kafkaesque immigration nightmares.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Arkady]

22 hours ago, TCA said:

 

It's a ridiculous scenario. You have my sympathies. If my wife gets ILR and citizenship, we'll have the situation that if she wishes a UK passport in her married name (mine), she'll have to change her name in Thailand too, as everything so far (passport and settlement visas) are in her Thai name. 

 

Out of interest, given you had to make the trip to Thailand anyway because of this stupid rule, could you have achieved the same result by "getting married" at an amphur then doing the i.d card and other required changes to get the new passport?

 

Thereby cutting out the legalisation by the UK government, subsequent translation and sending to the Thai embassy and saving 3 weeks? 

   

 

If you get married in Thailand, you cut out the business of getting an apostile in the UK which then has to be legalised by the Thai embassy, translated and then legalised by the MoFA.  And the district office will always try to take the original of apostile and your British marriage certificate off you.  It is a ridiculous notion that they would expect you to spend the rest of your life without your original marriage certificate but the same thing happened to a friend of mine.  You do need a certification of freedom to marry from the British Embassy and I think you now need a certified translation of your passport.  Anyway, it is no extra trouble to get your passport legalised by the embassy and translated and notarised at the same time as you do the freedom to marry paper. I have known people who were married overseas and then registered their marriages in Thailand, as if a first time marriage, without any problem (it is not bigamy if it is the same person). This seems to work better than marrying in the UK and then registering your British marriage in Thailand because you avoid the tedious apostile procedure.  But the easiest thing is probably registering your marriage in Thailand and then registering a certified translation of the certificate with the GRO in the UK, if you think a certified translation of the Thai certificate will not be enough.  That means you will have a GRO document for use in the UK.  I have used a certified translation of my Thai marriage certificate in the UK without problem but I don't live there. If I did, I would probably have registered it with the GRO.  

[Tuvoc]

I've just become aware of this new requirement, and it will affect my wife's renewal. Painful. Her Thai passport and ID is in her maiden name, but her British passport in married name.

 

Presumably if you don't have a foreign passport at the time of application, then there is no problem. If you had lost your foreign passport and not got another, it would be cancelled, and then you have no un-cancelled passport copies to provide ? 

 

Best solution is for my wife to ask for the British passport to be renewed under the maiden name - I assume they would do that ?

[Arkady]

15 hours ago, Tuvoc said:

I've just become aware of this new requirement, and it will affect my wife's renewal. Painful. Her Thai passport and ID is in her maiden name, but her British passport in married name.

 

Presumably if you don't have a foreign passport at the time of application, then there is no problem. If you had lost your foreign passport and not got another, it would be cancelled, and then you have no un-cancelled passport copies to provide ? 

 

Best solution is for my wife to ask for the British passport to be renewed under the maiden name - I assume they would do that ?

Technically you can revert to a former surname in a British passport by submitting the following:

• your birth certificate
• a statement signed by you saying you’ve gone back to a previous surname (for example your maiden name) ‘for all purposes’ - that is, you will not use your married or civil partnership name at all
• a document that shows you’re using your new name (for example a payslip, or a letter from your local council)
• your decree absolute or final order showing both names
• a marriage or civil partnership certificate showing both names - if you do not have it you can order a copy

Obviously the decree absolute doesn't apply, since you are not getting divorced. She is not supposed to continue using her married name at all after doing that. You would need a certified translation of her Thai birth certificate showing the maiden name.  I would suggest contacting them to find out, if there are any more requirements for naturalised Brits. It might make a difference that she had already changed her surname before she was naturalised.  If this is too difficult, it might be easier for her to change her name back to her maiden name by deed poll.

 

 "Losing" the Thai passport would not help much because you have disclose the details of a lost or stolen passport in box 3C.

 

[markt]

My wife was in the same situation, trying to renew her British passport when she was told the rules regarding surnames had changed.

 

She decided to wait until the covid situation in Thailand got easier before going back home to sort it out. Meanwhile she wrote a letter to the UK passport office saying it was difficult to change her surname at this moment in time either by going to Thailand or by doing it through power of attorney.

 

The passport office agreed and sent her a new UK passport. Maybe they're softening the rules at the moment due to the pandemic.

Edited February 27, 2022 by markt