Questions about contracts

[rodmunch]

I heard all contracts in Thailand are non-binding. Is that true? So if I sign a contract that states employees must give at least a 2-week notice, then it would be ok if I just gave a one-week notice instead? Because according to (9) of this link below, I would have to give a 2-week notice if I get paid every 2 weeks

http://www.ajarn.com/blogs/steve-crawford/teachers-rights

 

Also, according to this link all contracts have a 3-month probationary period: http://www.ajarn.com/blogs/rob-newman/teacher-contracts/

 

However, when I asked my school if I am on a probation period, they said no. So what's the deal?

[stubuzz]

39 minutes ago, rodmunch said:

So if I sign a contract that states employees must give at least a 2-week notice, then it would be ok if I just gave a one-week notice instead? Because according to (9) of this link below, I would have to give a 2-week notice if I get paid every 2 weeks

So, you are being paid weekly?

[rodmunch]

I was using the one week notice as an example. My point was regarding how seriously contracts are taken. If a contract specifies employees must give a certain time notice (for example, 2 week notice), does that mean I absolutely must give that much notice or would it suffice if I gave a much shorter notice (whether that be just a few days notice, a one week notice, etc)?

 

I have not actually signed my contract yet, if that matters

Edited May 30, 2017 by rodmunch

[ozmeldo]

Contracts work like this

 

Sign for the duration, money, hours and holiday time.

 

If you find the conditions unbarable, give notice and leave.

 

Sorry you burned a waiver. The school is not bothered in the least.

 

An agency will use every opportunity to screw you out if money. So insufficient notice is an issue. At a school, they might also dock your pay. At a language center who knows why work at a language center sff?,

 

I don't read contracts deeply any more. None of it matters, especially with agencies. Imagine language centers a little shop of horrors.

Edited May 30, 2017 by ozmeldo

[Rhys]

Nice link of the information site...

 

[rodmunch]

Quote

I don't read contracts deeply any more. None of it matters

 

I'm not working through an agency. Contracts don't really matter? So I might as well sign it even if I don't agree with it (such as the notice I have to give if I quit early)?

 

Quote

 So insufficient notice is an issue. At a school, they might also dock your pay

What if I quit after I get my salary? Can they somehow get that money back from me?

[tonray]

Soon the floodgates of "midnight runners" will be opened. Reports from the field "the job was not what I thought it would be", "the school/agency lied to me" or my favorite "the students are not interested in learning" !

 

While it is always preferable to do the right thing, be assured that the schools and agencies will not worry about screwing you one bit. Best to stick it out for at least 1 semester, most contracts have a legal out after 1 semester, good for your backbone.

[maoro2013]

Don't  really know about Thailand but I  believe a contract is an agreement. Both sides should honour this.

[bangkoken]

You start your post with "I heard all ...." Where did you hear this ? Quite the contrary, "All contracts are binding in Thailand"  Maybe you should apply some common sense to the things you agree to on paper.  

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

OP go and buy a car on HP in Thailand and then stop paying and see what happens. All contracts are binding. If they act outside the contract you can go to the Department of labour with your case. If you act outside the contract take what's coming your way.

[Fulwell53]

Most jobs ( even in good old back home )  require you to undergo a probationary 3 month period.

All that means is that at the end they tell if you are cutting the mustard or not.

Regardless your notice period usually aligns with frequency of salary payment.

There can be specific clause inclusions to override standard employment contract provisions but they need to be agreed between the parties before commencement of contract.

Nothing to  see here move along 

[3stan]

Its very simple here. You leave when you want, and thats that. Most schools are used to it. There will be no *legal* consequences for not finishing your contract. The probabtion period pretty much always become full year contract. 

 

[Rhys]

Do what is appropriate for your school, situation, and your budget.

 

[tonray]

2 hours ago, Rhys said:

Do what is appropriate for your school, situation, and your budget.

 

School: does not care about you or your problems

 

Situation: skint foreigner

 

Budget: see Situation above

[ozmeldo]

On 5/31/2017 at 7:09 AM, rodmunch said:

 

I'm not working through an agency. Contracts don't really matter? So I might as well sign it even if I don't agree with it (such as the notice I have to give if I quit early)?

 

What if I quit after I get my salary? Can they somehow get that money back from me?

A great deal of scheming going on here. You can up and quit after you are paid. I'd ask you to think of the kids. Unless you've got another job lined up, do a few weeks. 

 

No, they can't claw back money.

 

Yes, poor, disconnected management not limited to agencies. All schools have issues, some minor and most major. Hopefully a teacher can live with that. Layer an agency on top of that and it's all doomed. The students, learning, equipment/technology, activities, LMS. All of it - but most of all, the management. I have always had a far better relationship with Thai head teachers and directors than all the shonky agency administrators combined. 

 

When profit is intertwined with education in Thailand it's failure increases exponentially. Agencies should be limited as head hunters and be done with it. 

[Scott]

Unfortunately, we do not allow direct links to the ajarn forum, so you will have copy the links into your browser.

 

Contracts are binding as long as they do not violate Thai labor law.   I have been to labor court on behalf of our school and the conditions of the contract were upheld by the court.  

 

[Scott]

If I recall correctly, the maximum probationary period under Thai law is 4 months.   So it can be less, but can't be more.   

 

I am not 100% sure, but it is in the law.  

[1SteveC]

32 minutes ago, Scott said:

If I recall correctly, the maximum probationary period under Thai law is 4 months.   So it can be less, but can't be more.   

 

I am not 100% sure, but it is in the law.  

 

The Labour protection act quotes 120 days max, though many employers will set it at 119 days, so they can terminate the employee if needed without having to pay severence.

[thequietman]

7 hours ago, Scott said:

Unfortunately, we do not allow direct links to the ajarn forum, so you will have copy the links into your browser.

 

Contracts are binding as long as they do not violate Thai labor law.   I have been to labor court on behalf of our school and the conditions of the contract were upheld by the court.  

 

Scott,

 

Thai labor law states a set amount of paid sick days in a calendar year, I think it is 30.  So if a teaching contract states much less then this, then I assume the contract is invalid, correct? Also if the labor office accepts the contract then surely they are breaking the law themselves.  Also labor law states not less than 13 days vacation per year. Similarly , if the contract states less then this for a foreign employee then is the contract invalid? Again, if the labor office signs off on such a contract then they are breaking the law also.

 

Or maybe Thai labor laws don't apply to foreigners !

[Scott]

The difficulty with contracts in Thailand is that is not very often that the actual contract is challenged.   There are ways of writing a contract so that if one part is not legal the entire contract is not null and void, but that gets into some very specifics of the law and I think others are in a better position to answer that.

 

Usually, if someone goes to the labor court it is about a specific issue and that is what will be reviewed, not the entire contract.   Even if they threw the entire contract out, then the person would be under general Thai Labor laws.

 

Of the situations I have been involved in closely, two involved people who went to Court for unfair dismissal.   Both employees were discharged during the school year, without a very good reason, other than that someone in Admin didn't like them.   One was a first year year employee and one had worked for quite a number of years.   The first year teacher was given approximately 2 months wages by the court, 70,000+ baht.  The representative from the court that assisted suggested appealing as he felt there was grounds for a bigger settlement, but the employee wished to be done with it and took the money.

 

The other employee, who had worked for a number of years was awarded salary to the end of the contract, which was in the neighborhood of 400,000 baht.  

 

In those cases the contract was found to be binding and the school had not abided by their own terms or Thai labor law.  

 

In a different case, someone sued for end of term bonus money, but the employee lost because he had not provided notice of his plan to leave and had started a new contractual period, although a contract hand not yet been issued.   In that case, the fact that he more-or-less pulled a runner, the court decided he was not entitled to the money because the contract stipulated you must give 30 days notice of leaving in order to get the money.  

 

But these are situations in which specific areas of the contract are being challenged and not the contract in it's entirety.