Red-faced over Blackface: Vogue Thailand fails with model channeling Grace Jones in blackface

[DM07]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

Is he American ?

I expect that he is .

I am not from the USA , neither is the model or GJ

I am living in Asia

What some American guy did hundreds of years ago is irrelevant

The world doesnt revolve around the USA

 

It is about BLACK people, not citizens of the US!

 

[DM07]

"Blackface" is going back to a time, when white actors painted their faces black, to portrait the dumb and lazy nigger!

...excuse my french...

It is a bit like on Thai- TV, when Isan -women are usually portrait as dumb, overdressed, overly made- up, screeching bimbos, merely good enough to be the kitchen- help!

And if you don't find that in any form or shape racist, then I can really not help you! 

[NanLaew]

57 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

Blackface isn't just a minor historical White faux pas that African Americans should "just get over" and chill. It was a sustained, decades-long public humiliation on television, big screen and stage that consistently depicted Blacks as simple-minded servile buffoons. All the way until the 1980s. Some day, perhaps it *will* be "gotten over"

And the simpleton, dark-skinned Isaan characters bear the brunt of most hi-so, white-skinned, Bangkok dwelling character's abuse, ire, anger and amusement in an endless flow of lagorns on prime-time evening television.

 

Maybe America will never get over it but can we try and get over it in Thailand?

[DLang]

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racism

 

Racism.

 

Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

 

 

 The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

‘theories of racism’

 

 

Racist how?

Edited June 1, 2017 by DLang

[NanLaew]

Just now, DLang said:

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racism

 

Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

 

 

 The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

‘theories of racism’

 

 

Racist how?

White Men Can't Jump.

 

Flawed premise or awesome movie?

 

(with apologies to Larry Bird)

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, Thakkar said:

They are guilty of ignorance.

 

For example, a swastika is just a reverse Hindu logo and would be just that if not for the fact that the Nazis used it as their symbol, and, by extension, it became a symbol of their atrocities and brutalities.

Correct.

 

But who are the ignorant ones; those who simply confuse the Hindu symbol with the Nazi version or those that decided to make the Nazi version some sort of symbol of their atrocities and brutalities? Unlike a child becomes an adult, it didn't just become what it is.

Edited June 1, 2017 by NanLaew

[Bluespunk]

16 minutes ago, DLang said:

No, it is a model's face being painted to recognize the color of a product or other person.

 

It isn't reviving or paying homage to anything other than the product/person.

Not intentionally, no...

 

However when they used 'blackface, even if unintentionally, that is what they did.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Bluespunk

[Bluespunk]

18 minutes ago, DLang said:

What a load of delicate nonsense.

 

Not blackface, black body. The same color as the black product they are selling.Painting one's body the same color as the product.

 

Racist. How?

 

 

Read the article and the many others published on the same campaign.

[DLang]

5 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Read the article and the many others published on the same campaign.

Have you no thoughts for yourself man?

 

Man up.

 

Speak for yourself, not other people's flawed opinions.\

 

1. :  a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2. 2a :  a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principlesb :  a political or social system founded on racism

3. 3:  racial prejudice or discrimination

 

 

Racist how?? Why on Earth do you consider a model innocently wearing black body paint to advertise a black charcoal donut racist?

Edited June 1, 2017 by DLang

[Bluespunk]

Just now, DLang said:

Have you no thoughts for yourself man?

 

Man up.

 

Speak for yourself, not other people's opinions.

 

Racist how?? Why on Earth do you consider a model innocently wearing black body paint to advertise a charcoal donut racist?

Read

 

The

 

Article

 

It says all that needs to  be said

[DLang]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Read

 

The

 

Article

 

It says all that needs to  be said

I did.

 

And there's nothing in there at all that indicates:

 

1. :  a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2. 2a :  a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principlesb :  a political or social system founded on racism

3. 3:  racial prejudice or discrimination

 

Racist. How??

[NanLaew]

9 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Read the article and the many others published on the same campaign.

I see. Because they said so.

[Bluespunk]

12 minutes ago, DLang said:

I did.

 

And there's nothing in there at all that indicates:

 

1. :  a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2. 2a :  a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principlesb :  a political or social system founded on racism

3. 3:  racial prejudice or discrimination

 

Racist. How??

It was racist.

 

The company admitted it was racist and withdrew it.

 

"Break every rule of deliciousness." itself implied there are rules about desirable skin tones/colours...

 

However, here is another article with some additional pointers for you

 

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2013/0905/Blackface-Dunkin-Donuts-ad-in-Thailand-brings-racism-accusation

 

Some supporting your view but this caught my eye at the time

 

'Several US media outlets picked up on the story, pointing out the clear resemblance of the chocolate covered girl in the doughnut ad to blackface minstrel caricatures from America in the 1930s and ‘40s.'

Edited June 1, 2017 by Bluespunk

[Bluespunk]

6 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

I see. Because they said so.

Did you read the article?

 

The company itself admitted it was racist in nature.

[DLang]

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

It was racisr.

 

The company admitted it was racist and withdrew it.

If the company was publicly told it was sexist, homophobic, anti-Martian, anti-Christian or anything else, as is the power of the uneducated spoonfed simpletons, they would have to jump up and pull it.

 

Are you an uneducated, spoonfed simpleton?

 

No?

 

 

1. :  a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2. 2a :  a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principlesb :  a political or social system founded on racism

3. 3:  racial prejudice or discrimination

 

Racist, how?

[sanemax]

32 minutes ago, DM07 said:

"Blackface" is going back to a time, when white actors painted their faces black, to portrait the dumb and lazy nigger!

But you just cannot comprehend , Thailand was never like that , so people painting their face black in Thailand  doesnt have any significance .

   You are bring your American cultural differences and history to Asia

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, DLang said:

 

 

 

If the company was publicly told it was sexist, homophobic, anti-Martian, anti-Christian or anything else, as is the power of the uneducated spoonfed simpletons, they would have to jump up and pull it.

 

Are you an uneducated, spoonfed simpleton?

 

No?

 

 

1. :  a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2. 2a :  a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principlesb :  a political or social system founded on racism

3. 3:  racial prejudice or discrimination

 

Racist, how?

Oh, dear. Personal abuse now. How sad.

 

Using ''blackface'' to promote a product is racist.

 

By the by, why are you editing my posts and changing spellings?

Edited June 1, 2017 by Bluespunk

[DLang]

Asking a question is personal abuse?

 

My oh my.

 

 

Though now you're just stamping your feet, as you cannot answer the question.

 

Racist, how?

 

If you cannot answer the question simply say so. 

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, DLang said:

Asking a question is personal abuse?

 

My oh my.

 

 

Though now you're just stamping your feet, as you cannot answer the question.

 

Racist, how?

 

If you cannot answer the question simply say so. 

No, just pointing out that you are resorting to personal abuse.

 

To quote you

 

'Are you an uneducated, spoonfed simpleton?'

 

I've answered it, repeatedly.

 

You just don't like the answers.

 

Using ''blackface'' is racist.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Bluespunk

[Thakkar]

40 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Correct.

 

But who are the ignorant ones; those who simply confuse the Hindu symbol with the Nazi version or those that decided to make the Nazi version some sort of symbol of their atrocities and brutalities? Unlike a child becomes an adult, it didn't just become what it is.

 

The very word "Nazi" was innocuous until the actions of the the nazis gave the word the negative tinge it has today. 

 

Similarly, Blackening is just blackening, except that it was used for decades (all the way till the 1980s) in America and parts of Europe specifically to depict black people as naive simpletons. Blacks are right to be offended by blackening. Decent people of all stripes who are aware of the history are rightly appalled. Thais are neither appalled nor offended, but both Vogue and Dunkin' Donuts, as international companies with a strong American presence, should've been more cognizant.

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

Similarly, Blackening is just blackening, except that it was used for decades (all the way till the 1980s) in America and parts of Europe specifically to depict black people as naive simpletons. Blacks are right to be offended by blackening. Decent people of all stripes who are aware of the history are rightly appalled.

I can well understand Black Americans being ridiculed by White actors on American TV would get offended .

   But I cannot understand how White Americans can get upset by Asian paying homage to a Black Jamaican singer , by trying to look like her

[NanLaew]

49 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Did you read the article?

 

The company itself admitted it was racist in nature.

No they didn't.

 

"Dunkin' Donuts recognizes the insensitivity of this spot and on behalf of our Thailand franchisee and our company, we apologize for any offense it caused," Karen Raskopf, chief communications officer for Dunkin' Brands, said in a statement provided to the Guardian. "We are working with our franchisee to immediately pull the television spot and to change the campaign."

 

The US company simply apologized for 'insensitivity' and 'any offense it caused.'

 

Did you read the article?

[NanLaew]

56 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

"Break every rule of deliciousness." itself implied there are rules about desirable skin tones/colours...

Seriously? The words "break every rule of deliciousness" in itself implies that white is better than black? Seriously? In all actuality, looking at the product being advertised and using your narrow constructs, it would appear that being black beats the bejezus outta being white.

 

In the unfortunately themed Dunkin Donuts advert, "break every rule of deliciousness" alludes to eating a black donut where black colored food isn't freely associated with tasting good.

 

Of course the company head office pulled the advert with a proportionate apology and absolutely no admission or acknowledgment of it having racist intent.

 

The advert caused consternation on Friday morning, after Human Rights Watch said it would cause "howls of outrage" if it ran in the US."It's both bizarre and racist that Dunkin' Donuts thinks that it must color a woman's skin black and accentuate her lips with bright pink lipstick to sell a chocolate doughnut," said Phil Robertson, the deputy Asia director for HRW. "Dunkin' Donuts should immediately withdraw this ad, publicly apologize to those it's offended and ensure this never happens again."

 

But it didn't run in the US did it? So we must assume the mantle of protesting the American black stereotyping in Thailand? The area manager of Human Rights Watch is/was a buffoon BTW .The product he was protesting was a charcoal donut not a bloody chocolate one.

[Bluespunk]

Just now, NanLaew said:

Seriously? The words "break every rule of deliciousness" in itself implies that white is better than black? Seriously? In all actuality, looking at the product being advertised and using your narrow constructs, it would appear that being black beats the bejezus outta being white.

 

In the unfortunately themed Dunkin Donuts advert, "break every rule of deliciousness" alludes to eating a black donut where black colored food isn't freely associated with tasting good.

 

Of course the company head office pulled the advert with a proportionate apology and absolutely no admission or acknowledgment of it having racist intent.

 

The advert caused consternation on Friday morning, after Human Rights Watch said it would cause "howls of outrage" if it ran in the US."It's both bizarre and racist that Dunkin' Donuts thinks that it must color a woman's skin black and accentuate her lips with bright pink lipstick to sell a chocolate doughnut," said Phil Robertson, the deputy Asia director for HRW. "Dunkin' Donuts should immediately withdraw this ad, publicly apologize to those it's offended and ensure this never happens again."

 

But it didn't run in the US did it? So we must assume the mantle of protesting the American black stereotyping in Thailand? The area manager of Human Rights Watch is/was a buffoon BTW .The product he was protesting was a charcoal donut not a bloody chocolate one.

I'll answer both your posts at once as they are essentially the same thing.

 

''Blackface'' is racist.

 

The ad was pulled because of the racist nature of it.

 

"Dunkin' Donuts recognizes the insensitivity of this spot and on behalf of our Thailand franchisee and our company, we apologize for any offense it caused," Karen Raskopf, chief communications officer for Dunkin' Brands, said in a statement provided to the Guardian. "We are working with our franchisee to immediately pull the television spot and to change the campaign."

 

It may not use the ''R'' word but that is why it was pulled.

 

From a different article on why it was pulled

 

''Several US media outlets picked up on the story, pointing out the clear resemblance of the chocolate covered girl in the doughnut ad to blackface minstrel caricatures from America in the 1930s and ‘40s.''

 

 

It was racist.

[Thakkar]

50 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I can well understand Black Americans being ridiculed by White actors on American TV would get offended .

   But I cannot understand how White Americans can get upset by Asian paying homage to a Black Jamaican singer , by trying to look like her

 

I think I get your point.

The magazine here is not being deliberately racist, or—from an uninformed Thai perspective—racist at all.

 

The whole point of sensitively is to try to understand how others for whom this may have deeper meaning would feel, especially after being told so.

 

Also, your restricting this to "Black Americans" is too narrow. ALL Blacks were caricatured as naive simpletons, so all blacks who are aware of that history or has watched one of those performances would be rightly offended.

 

Your use of "Jamaican" is also disingenuous. Jamaicans are generally of African descent. The insults on those TV and stage shows applied to them as well.

 

I think it's useful to know what offends people, especially if one is in marketing or in the media business. It's equally important, as you seem to suggest, to ask whether that offense is justified.

 

In this case we both seem to agree that it's justifiably offensive to blacks (albeit, in your case, bizarrely, just black Americans). Where we seem to part ways is that I also think it should be offensive to decent people everywhere after they've been made aware of the historical baggage of blackening. 

[ubonjoe]

A post flaming another member has been removed.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

It may not use the ''R'' word but that is why it was pulled.

No. That is why YOU say it was pulled. The clearly chosen words of "Insensitivity" and "offense" is not in any way an admission or even an agreement that the advert was racist. It was withdrawn because it was a red rag to the small but noisome politically correct, liberal peanut gallery on an otherwise slow and unremarkable Monday.

 

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

''Several US media outlets picked up on the story, pointing out the clear resemblance of the chocolate covered girl in the doughnut ad to blackface minstrel caricatures from America in the 1930s and ‘40s.''

Another article clearly indicating that just like the local Human Rights Watch numpty who waffled on about chocolate and rather bizarrely, the pink lips, they either probably never ever saw the offensive advert as there was no chocolate involved or have some sort of personal issues with pink lips.

 

You can "blackface" until your blue in the face but thankfully this is still Thailand. This faux pricked conscience of those from countries that were involved in slavery or oppression or for countries that were involved in slavery and oppression really doesn't have a place at the average Thai restaurant, fast-food outlet or dinner table in 2560.

 

For your enlightenment and inevitable further misunderstanding.

 

blackface

ˈblakfeɪs/

noun

noun: blackface; plural noun: blackfaces; noun: black-face; plural noun: black-faces

1. 1.

   a sheep of a breed with a black face.
2. 2.

   make-up used by a non-black performer playing a black role.

 

Since neither the Dunkin Donuts advert or Vogue feature was about sheep or thespians, I think it's all getting a bit pointless.

 

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, Thakkar said:

In this case we both seem to agree that it's justifiably offensive to blacks (albeit, in your case, bizarrely, just black Americans). Where we seem to part ways is that I also think it should be offensive to decent people everywhere after they've been made aware of the historical baggage of blackening. 

Blacking up in order to perceive Black people to be simpletons and mocking them is indeed offensive and racist and unacceptable , its part of history that is no longer acceptable , we have all moved on from that .

    People dressing up as famous singers , really isnt portraying them in a negative light , quite the opposite actually .

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, Thakkar said:

Where we seem to part ways is that I also think it should be offensive to decent people everywhere after they've been made aware of the historical baggage of blackening. 

What gives us the right to burden other, totally different cultures with the effects of airing our own historical and cultural dirty linen?

 

It can't be any sort of "feel good" thing or else everyone would be blagging it.

 

Let them google it themselves and if they feel bad about it, OK and if they learn something from it, even better. But telling them about it and then telling them that they should feel bad about something that is so culturally and historically way, way out in left field is very presumptuous.

Edited June 1, 2017 by NanLaew

[Bluespunk]

19 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

No. That is why YOU say it was pulled. The clearly chosen words of "Insensitivity" and "offense" is not in any way an admission or even an agreement that the advert was racist. It was withdrawn because it was a red rag to the small but noisome politically correct, liberal peanut gallery on an otherwise slow and unremarkable Monday.

 

Another article clearly indicating that just like the local Human Rights Watch numpty who waffled on about chocolate and rather bizarrely, the pink lips, they either probably never ever saw the offensive advert as there was no chocolate involved or have some sort of personal issues with pink lips.

 

You can "blackface" until your blue in the face but thankfully this is still Thailand. This faux pricked conscience of those from countries that were involved in slavery or oppression or for countries that were involved in slavery and oppression really doesn't have a place at the average Thai restaurant, fast-food outlet or dinner table in 2560.

 

For your enlightenment and inevitable further misunderstanding.

 

blackface

ˈblakfeɪs/

noun

noun: blackface; plural noun: blackfaces; noun: black-face; plural noun: black-faces

1. 1.

   a sheep of a breed with a black face.
2. 2.

   make-up used by a non-black performer playing a black role.

 

Since neither the Dunkin Donuts advert or Vogue feature was about sheep or thespians, I think it's all getting a bit pointless.

 

No need for enlightenment and no misunderstanding.

 

''Blackface'' is a racist tradition rooted in hate and prejudice.

 

You may not want to acknowledge that, but it's still true.

 

Both these campaigns used the tradition, intentionally or not, but they used it.

 

Oh and by the way, it was pulled because it was racist. They may not have used the word but that was the reason...

 

http://thegrio.com/2013/10/30/a-brief-history-of-blackface-just-in-time-for-halloween/

 

http://theconversation.com/explainer-why-blackface-and-brownface-offend-65881

 

Or if you really want to understand

https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=racism+and+blackface+history&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjv4suLv5zUAhUE0RQKHQi4BWYQgQMIHzAA

 

Edited June 1, 2017 by Bluespunk