Shock UK exit poll suggests Britain's May fails to win majority

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

Anybody who has been a member of the Labour Party for several decades needs help.

 

3 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said:

Eh? I have been a member of the *Conservative Party* for several decades (well, 27 years to be exact).

My humblest and abject apologies for getting the Party wrong. .......Well anyway, you still need help, just a different white coat.

[nontabury]

44 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said:

Eh? I have been a member of the *Conservative Party* for several decades (well, 27 years to be exact).

So your one of the Bournemouth donkeys, as opposed to a Barnsley monkey.

[Basil B]

2 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

If Labour joins with Conservatives wouldn't there be a majority.  

More chance of the DFS sale ending first...

Edited June 11, 2017 by Basil B

[ilostmypassword]

8 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

If you are not liked you can't muster supporters. May has no supporters - she is now a leader without followers. She was chosen in a panic and has no natural 'constituency' within the party. I have been a member of the party for several decades - I know how it works. May is already history. The idea of Hard Brexit is history. There will be a new leader and a soft Brexit. I know Boris is the darling of the media, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Hammond become PM. He's well liked, got lots of business connections in the 'right industries' (healthcare, construction, oil), ex-World Bank and an internationalist - and he's very risk-averse when it comes to Brexit - which aligns with the concerns of the Party's major backers.

Do you think the Conservatives will accept Freedom of Movement? If not, I don't see how a soft Brexit is possible.

[Usernames]

On 6/9/2017 at 5:52 PM, Prbkk said:

Yes, agreed. Corbin is very likeable. However, I would view the election of a Corbin-led govt as a disaster for the UK....a one-way ticket to touchy-freelyness and unbridled spending.ie ...Greece, Italy, we're headed your way.

More like headed towards the way of Venezuela.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Even those with the biggest anti-uni chip on their shoulder would like their children to have the opportunity of going on to higher education.

Not me. I'd prefer they get a decent job like plumbing or electrical etc that will earn them a good living while the ones going for a degree in hip hop or such are driving taxis ( till self driving cars makes them redundant ).

Practical jobs are fetching high wages at present as more youths go to uni to get the "media studies" type of degree, which has little chance of getting a good job in the real world.

[AlexRich]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not me. I'd prefer they get a decent job like plumbing or electrical etc that will earn them a good living while the ones going for a degree in hip hop or such are driving taxis ( till self driving cars makes them redundant ).

Practical jobs are fetching high wages at present as more youths go to uni to get the "media studies" type of degree, which has little chance of getting a good job in the real world.

You sound just like my Dad ... but a few years after leaving University he admitted that he was wrong to think that ... as things worked out rather differently. Sad that you think so little of your children's potential?

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not me. I'd prefer they get a decent job like plumbing or electrical etc that will earn them a good living while the ones going for a degree in hip hop or such are driving taxis ( till self driving cars makes them redundant ).

Practical jobs are fetching high wages at present as more youths go to uni to get the "media studies" type of degree, which has little chance of getting a good job in the real world.

And attitudes like that, my friend, will make us the sick man of Europe again. You REALLY do not understand the world in which we live now.

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Do you think the Conservatives will accept Freedom of Movement? If not, I don't see how a soft Brexit is possible.

 

Most conservative MPs do not support Brexit. Think about it? They are now facing up to a potential Corbyn government if they lose the next election ... even as much as the right wing Tories want out of the EU, they don't want out at this price! The idea was to turn the UK into a free market low tax wonder growth state ... not a crypto-Communist disaster. 

 

So will the Tories accept freedom of movement ... yes, if the alternative is Corbyn.

 

It's fascinating to watch ... the script has just gone so badly wrong for the UKIP/Brexit Tories ... they opened a can of worms and it's all going wrong.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Quite often those wise guys railing most against the awful media studies last read a book about 30 years ago, maybe.

Actually, I just finished a book last night.

My beef with uni isn't with uni per se- I WANT a dr with a degree. My beef is that jobs that should never have been made a degree required occupation, like nursing, have been made so for all the wrong reasons. That puts it out of contention for people that would have made excellent nurses, but can't afford to take 3 or 4 years off from earning an income.

The media studies thing is because it represents the most pointless degree ever imagined ( along with hip hop etc etc ) and the chance of actually getting a good paying job with it is slight.

Meanwhile, the little princes and princesses don't want to do needed degrees as in science and mathematics, so the future is looking bleak for innovation, in western countries.

I doubt Chinese unis have a shortage of applicants for science and mathematics degrees.

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Most conservative MPs do not support Brexit. Think about it? They are now facing up to a potential Corbyn government if they lose the next election ... even as much as the right wing Tories want out of the EU, they don't want out at this price! The idea was to turn the UK into a free market low tax wonder growth state ... not a crypto-Communist disaster. 

 

So will the Tories accept freedom of movement ... yes, if the alternative is Corbyn.

 

It's fascinating to watch ... the script has just gone so badly wrong for the UKIP/Brexit Tories ... they opened a can of worms and it's all going wrong.

 

The problem is, that if they accept freedom of movement. won't they lose lots of voters over that?

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, Grouse said:

And attitudes like that, my friend, will make us the sick man of Europe again. You REALLY do not understand the world in which we live now.

I guess you must be psychic to know so much about me .

 

What I do know is that I never needed a degree to succeed in 3 different careers, one of which now needs a degree to do, and that the most successful of my friends ( very successful ) is an electrician.

 

I presume you are referring to something to do with computerization. LOL. All that is going to vanish like morning mist once AI comes in, and not too long now.

 

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

The problem is, that if they accept freedom of movement. won't they lose lots of voters over that?

 

The argument in politics is that people will tend to vote for a strong economy above other considerations ... but the Brexit vote suggested that they hated immigration so much that they were willing to take some pain. I say suggested, but I suspect that the older generations that voted for it did not believe that there would be any pain ... for them at least. With the shelving of triple lock and dementia tax they're beginning to think otherwise. Add to that you have more young people engaged in voting, who never wanted Brexit in the first place. Combined, my personal view is that there is only a hardcore opposition to freedom of movement, and it is no longer large enough to sway the vote.

 

So we may well get a Brexit which includes customs union, single market and freedom of movement. In other words, the whole exercise was a complete waste of time and money ... a worse situation than before with little benefits.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

17 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

You sound just like my Dad ... but a few years after leaving University he admitted that he was wrong to think that ... as things worked out rather differently. Sad that you think so little of your children's potential?

I'd like my children to have a job that can't be computerized, so they actually have a job when AI makes the majority of western workers unemployed.

[AlexRich]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'd like my children to have a job that can't be computerized, so they actually have a job when AI makes the majority of western workers unemployed.

 

I think there are very few jobs that will last a lifetime. People will have two or three different careers over their lifetimes and that will involve being retrained. It's impossible to predict ... so why not get the best possible qualifications that put you in a position to remain attractive in the workforce. Maths, science, technology, robotics come to mind ... but also languages, arts, teaching. If everyone goes into plumbing and electrician positions, they become commodity jobs, low paid with little future.

[HauptmannUK]

27 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Actually, I just finished a book last night.

My beef with uni isn't with uni per se- I WANT a dr with a degree. My beef is that jobs that should never have been made a degree required occupation, like nursing, have been made so for all the wrong reasons. That puts it out of contention for people that would have made excellent nurses, but can't afford to take 3 or 4 years off from earning an income.

The media studies thing is because it represents the most pointless degree ever imagined ( along with hip hop etc etc ) and the chance of actually getting a good paying job with it is slight.

Meanwhile, the little princes and princesses don't want to do needed degrees as in science and mathematics, so the future is looking bleak for innovation, in western countries.

I doubt Chinese unis have a shortage of applicants for science and mathematics degrees.

I know Media Studies degrees occupy a special place in modern-day anti-intellectual demonology, however the truth is that only a tiny number of students study Media Studies. You might have 100 students in a university with a student population of 25000.

 

Students tend not to study science and maths because the courses are very demanding and pay is poor. Ramp up the salaries for science and maths grads and watch the number of applicants shoot up. Its Market Forces.....  And yes, Chinese universities have difficulty in recruiting science and maths students. Most students want to study business. Part of the problem is that parents see science and maths as low status occupations because pay is poor..

[HauptmannUK]

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Do you think the Conservatives will accept Freedom of Movement? If not, I don't see how a soft Brexit is possible.

Restrictions on Freedom of Movement are possible, so soft Brexit is possible. EU legislation makes provision for minimum income requirements for residency. Westminster has simply chosen not to use these tools which are at its disposal.

[brewsterbudgen]

Do you think the Conservatives will accept Freedom of Movement? If not, I don't see how a soft Brexit is possible.

They won't have much choice. The majority in parliament and the public are clearly against the UKIP/extreme right hard Brexit.

[ilostmypassword]

6 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

They won't have much choice. The majority in parliament and the public are clearly against the UKIP/extreme right hard Brexit.

Well, it seems to me that the position of the conservatives is hopeless then. If they support soft brexit, they lose a significant portion of their support. Also, I've read analyses of the vote and the reason that the conservatives suffered such a loss of support was not Brexit but their cuts to the NHS and the big increases in tuition at universities.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said:

I know Media Studies degrees occupy a special place in modern-day anti-intellectual demonology, however the truth is that only a tiny number of students study Media Studies. You might have 100 students in a university with a student population of 25000.

 

Students tend not to study science and maths because the courses are very demanding and pay is poor. Ramp up the salaries for science and maths grads and watch the number of applicants shoot up. Its Market Forces.....  And yes, Chinese universities have difficulty in recruiting science and maths students. Most students want to study business. Part of the problem is that parents see science and maths as low status occupations because pay is poor..

I see you know more about it than I.

 

I have modified what you wrote to reflect what I am concerned about

Students tend not to study nursing because the courses are very demanding and pay is poor.

In my country it seems mainly overseas nurses in hospitals, because few want to do a degree to earn rubbish wages. Also in London when I worked there.

 

modern-day anti-intellectual demonology

LOL. IMO it's more to do with rejection of the ethos of the snob elite culture epitomized by the idea that people without degrees are of lesser intelligence or worth than someone with a degree, even if it is in basket weaving. Eg the Thai government insistence that farang teachers must have a degree, even if it has zero to do with education.

Even my country is going down the "must have a post grad degree" whatever that is, to be a teacher, even though the result will be even less teachers in classrooms. Haven't any of those clowns looked at the amount of student debt there is already? Given that teaching is, like nursing, woefully underpaid, one would have to be a bit slow to do a degree to become one, unless mummy and daddy are paying for it.

[HauptmannUK]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I see you know more about it than I.

 

I have modified what you wrote to reflect what I am concerned about

Students tend not to study nursing because the courses are very demanding and pay is poor.

In my country it seems mainly overseas nurses in hospitals, because few want to do a degree to earn rubbish wages. Also in London when I worked there.

 

modern-day anti-intellectual demonology

LOL. IMO it's more to do with rejection of the ethos of the snob elite culture epitomized by the idea that people without degrees are of lesser intelligence or worth than someone with a degree, even if it is in basket weaving. Eg the Thai government insistence that farang teachers must have a degree, even if it has zero to do with education.

Even my country is going down the "must have a post grad degree" whatever that is, to be a teacher, even though the result will be even less teachers in classrooms. Haven't any of those clowns looked at the amount of student debt there is already? Given that teaching is, like nursing, woefully underpaid, one would have to be a bit slow to do a degree to become one, unless mummy and daddy are paying for it.

First off, nursing degrees have traditionally been heavily subsidised by the government.  Secondly, there is no shortage of applicants for nursing degrees. There is a shortage of places. I know of one UK university that normally receives around 600 applicants for 30 places. It is much cheaper for the NHS to recruit trained nurses from overseas than train them itself.

Finally I do believe that teaching should be a graduate profession. I think current UK requirements for teaching are about right.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said:

First off, nursing degrees have traditionally been heavily subsidised by the government.  Secondly, there is no shortage of applicants for nursing degrees. There is a shortage of places. I know of one UK university that normally receives around 600 applicants for 30 places. It is much cheaper for the NHS to recruit trained nurses from overseas than train them itself.

Finally I do believe that teaching should be a graduate profession. I think current UK requirements for teaching are about right.

I believe you missed "in my country". I know it's off topic, but so has been all our discussion about this subject.

[AGareth2]

Rescind Art 50

[Grouse]

This whole discussion about education is poorly informed and depressing. It explains much of what is happening today. 

 

It's all off topic of course but I'm minded to suggest after what I have read that a degree should be necessary to be able to vote!

 

I have noted that educated people seem to produce educated children. It should be encouraged not mocked. 

 

BTW, media studies includes journalism, advertising, TV production, movie production, animation, publishing and many other lucrative careers. Look how much a Foley operator makes!

[Basil B]

What's next...

 

Even I Teresa manages a deal with the UDP, her position is untenable, it is clear that many Tory MP's do not agree with her and what is worse she will not listen to them.

 

This parliament is short lived, it will not survive many months so many Tory MP's are wondering how the hell they will get re-elected on thing for sure is May's stance on a hard brexit will not help them.

 

This is likely to lead to her being given an Ultimatum "jump before you are pushed", and we will see the Tories looking for a new leader within days.

 

And an election before the end of the year.

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

This whole discussion about education is poorly informed and depressing. It explains much of what is happening today. 

 

It's all off topic of course but I'm minded to suggest after what I have read that a degree should be necessary to be able to vote!

 

I have noted that educated people seem to produce educated children. It should be encouraged not mocked. 

 

BTW, media studies includes journalism, advertising, TV production, movie production, animation, publishing and many other lucrative careers. Look how much a Foley operator makes!

Exactly my point. You are at the least implying that parents that didn't go to uni are uneducated and incapable of bringing up educated children.

You seem to assume that I don't know any uni educated people to be able to make an informed opinion.

 

For a look at uni educated people, just go to U Tube to see how uni students behave badly.

Some that are interviewed on Spring Break don't even know who the vice president is.

[binjalin]

27 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I see you know more about it than I.

 

I have modified what you wrote to reflect what I am concerned about

Students tend not to study nursing because the courses are very demanding and pay is poor.

In my country it seems mainly overseas nurses in hospitals, because few want to do a degree to earn rubbish wages. Also in London when I worked there.

 

modern-day anti-intellectual demonology

LOL. IMO it's more to do with rejection of the ethos of the snob elite culture epitomized by the idea that people without degrees are of lesser intelligence or worth than someone with a degree, even if it is in basket weaving. Eg the Thai government insistence that farang teachers must have a degree, even if it has zero to do with education.

Even my country is going down the "must have a post grad degree" whatever that is, to be a teacher, even though the result will be even less teachers in classrooms. Haven't any of those clowns looked at the amount of student debt there is already? Given that teaching is, like nursing, woefully underpaid, one would have to be a bit slow to do a degree to become one, unless mummy and daddy are paying for it.

People who don't have a decent degree always denigrate those who worked hard and have one. You cannot get anywhere in the health care sector, forces or police etc. unless you have a degree which shows commitment and focus.

 

Inside the NHS in UK those who wish to undertake study are usually encouraged to do so and all the health professionals I know have to have one both on the medical side and on the management side (I took my higher degree in the NHS). 

 

The Thai government are right, for once, to insist on a degree as it does many things beside show focus it encourages students to study and do the same. It's not about the subject always it's about the time and understanding of research methodologies etc.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Basil B said:

What's next...

 

Even I Teresa manages a deal with the UDP, her position is untenable, it is clear that many Tory MP's do not agree with her and what is worse she will not listen to them.

 

This parliament is short lived, it will not survive many months so many Tory MP's are wondering how the hell they will get re-elected on thing for sure is May's stance on a hard brexit will not help them.

 

This is likely to lead to her being given an Ultimatum "jump before you are pushed", and we will see the Tories looking for a new leader within days.

 

And an election before the end of the year.

 

 

 

I'm for Boris.

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm for Boris.

Yes, the choice of Socialists everywhere.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, binjalin said:

People who don't have a decent degree always denigrate those who worked hard and have one. You cannot get anywhere in the health care sector, forces or police etc. unless you have a degree which shows commitment and focus.

 

Inside the NHS in UK those who wish to undertake study are usually encouraged to do so and all the health professionals I know have to have one both on the medical side and on the management side (I took my higher degree in the NHS). 

 

The Thai government are right, for once, to insist on a degree as it does many things beside show focus it encourages students to study and do the same. It's not about the subject always it's about the time and understanding of research methodologies etc.

You apparently have not understood anything I wrote.

 

all the health professionals I know have to have one both on the medical side and on the management side

Don't know m/any ward nurses then?

 

BTW, despite having to have a degree in management, many ward managers I had were incompetent at best and useless at worst. Like we used to say, nurses that can't nurse become managers.

 

Have a nice day .

 

Edited June 11, 2017 by thaibeachlovers