5 hours ago, sungod said:

Had the Brexit vote been the other way around with the same margins would you be bleating so much? 

 

 

 

There'd be nothing to bleat about. We'd still be getting 52-odd baht to the £ as the money markets would still have confidence in the UK's future. The Government would not have to be propped up by 10 dinosaurs. The young would have something to look forward to, and the wrinklies would lose their air of smugness for having shafted them. Etc.

On 6/10/2017 at 6:49 PM, JAG said:

Well, except for the fact that Margaret Thatcher won elections - consistently...

 

Not to mention she actually did have serious clout in Europe.

On June 10, 2017 at 2:48 AM, Stupooey said:

Not quite true. There was no vote for joining the EEC (as was), the 1975 referendum was held to decide whether the UK should remain members a couple of years after joining.

As you say, the result was 67-33 in favour, the sort of majority you could start applying emotive phrases like 'the will of the people' to. That should have settled the matter, but unfortunately the 33% were not prepared to accept the result. They became known as 'Eurosceptics', although 'Euroseptics' would be more accurate, as successive governments (particularly Conservative) had to pander to their Eurosceptic wing. As a result, instead of being one of the leaders of the Union, the UK allowed Germany and France to set the agenda. It is ironic that these are the same people who later complained that the UK was being ruled from Brussels, but were too arrogant to admit, or too stupid to realise, that their indifference had exacerbated the situation.

Referenda in the UK have only ever been held to appease party political in-fighting for a very good reason: they are a very unsatisfactory method of carrying out government and undermine sovereignty, which rests with Parliament. Certainly any vote on a cataclysmic change such as Brexit should require a 2:1majority, otherwise you end up with the sort of mess we are now witnessing. The only way to save the Country would be for Parliament to override the referendum result, which they are perfectly entitled to do, but of course politicians are not brave enough to do this. Perhaps the answer is a military coup and Article 44!

I've tried searching for a recent Brexit public opinion poll but couldn't find one. What is the breakdown now between leavers and remainders? I would think that would have some influence on the type of negotiating position the UK takes forward. Minority governments are by nature unstable and parties on the wrong side of the of remain/leave or hard/soft would be in trouble next election however soon that occurs

On June 10, 2017 at 3:07 AM, Stupooey said:

Agreed. Unlike a General Election, where abstentions just indicate no preference, in the Referendum it could be argued that those who didn't vote were happy with the status quo. There will always be a problem with simple majority referenda: what if the vote had been 50.01/49.99?

Winner is the winner. This was the 1995 Quebec Independence vote result. The leavers lost all their steam after this result.

Results
Votes     %
 Yes    2,308,360    49.42%
 No    2,362,648    50.58%
Total votes    4,757,509    100.00%
Registered voters/turnout 93.52%

On 6/10/2017 at 9:07 AM, Stupooey said:

Agreed. Unlike a General Election, where abstentions just indicate no preference, in the Referendum it could be argued that those who didn't vote were happy with the status quo. There will always be a problem with simple majority referenda: what if the vote had been 50.01/49.99?

 

It could be argued. But the argument would be without foundation. The 50.01/49.99 result would be called democracy. Once you start setting limits and targets on percentages, or any other kind of proviso, you are moving away from democracy and giving ammunition to anti-democrats, such as the Establishment-backed ones in Thailand . But I noticed that you (maybe tongue in cheek?) suggested a military coup in the UK in a different post.

I read the 69% bit somewhere but can't remember where, so can"t prove it, so you can disbelieve me too.

On 12/6/2560 at 3:11 AM, tiocfaidh said:

I read the 69% bit somewhere but can't remember where, so can"t prove it, so you can disbelieve me too.

Correct. 70% now want to get out.