British voters wake up and ask - Who are the DUP?

[Grouse]

6 minutes ago, Bannoi said:

I can just picture Ian Paisley standing on the other side of the table from Theresa May banging his fist on the table and shouting  NEVER......NEVER.......NEVER.......NEVER....... I met the man a few times in fact I used to live a stones throw from his church in Belfast he would have had her quaking in her shoes.

Was he louder than the call to prayer?

[vaultdweller0013]

1 hour ago, RickBradford said:

@vaultdweller0013

 

Points taken.

 

To restate, the Belfast bakery did not refuse to serve the customers, but simply refused to create a message which they found to be offensive to their moral beliefs. The same applied at a bakery in Oregon, where the customer sued for discrimination and won.

 

In similar fashion, a Denver bakery refused to create 2 cakes requested by a Christian customer which contained biblical messages such as "God hates sin" under a drawing of a gay couple with a large X above them, indicating disapproval.

 

In this case, the customer sued for discrimination and lost.

 

Some discrimination, it seems, is more discriminating than others.

Once again, read up on US history. A lot of places didn't "refuse" to serve black customers; they just wanted to segregate them into "separate but equal"  areas to avoid the mixing of the races on-line with their deeply held beliefs.

 

Also, per my point, it was only in 2003 that the last law against sodomy was struck down in US courts.

 

So yes, you are right that some forms of discrimination are more discriminatory than others. Without the protection of the courts, homosexuality would still be a crime in many areas. Without the protection of the courts, Christians against homosexuality are pretty much free to act as they did before.

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, JAG said:

Northern Ireland is at the moment having an absolutely disproportionate and central influence on the current political situation (mess) in the UK. It returns 17 MPs. 7 are Sinn Fein and will not take their seats, thus denying Jeremy Corbyn support which he has to have to have any hope of ousting the Tories and forming a minority government. The other 10 are DUP, who whatever they might think about Mrs May and the Tories, would not ever, ever countenance any sort of accommodation with Jeremy Corbyn on account of his long standing support for Sinn Fein/IRA.

Funny how things come back to bite you on the bum, isn't it?

He did not support the IRA anymore than I did. He was pro dialogue, and in the end dialogue won. I think one has to look beyond the atrocious behaviour on both sides and read the history. Do you know how the troubles started? Worth the read. As always, nothing is as clear as we like to think. I for one am amazed and grateful that there has been a resolution of sorts. We DO NOT want to go back to those days. TM is a selfish bitch to even consider an alliance with the DUP. She should have tried a minority government. I am appalled at the risk she takes ?

Edited June 10, 2017 by Grouse

[RickBradford]

41 minutes ago, vaultdweller0013 said:

Without the protection of the courts, homosexuality would still be a crime in many areas. Without the protection of the courts, Christians against homosexuality are pretty much free to act as they did before.

"Free to act"? Really?

 

When refusing, on moral grounds, to print a message promoting homosexuality is an offence that attracts a damages judgment of $135,000 for "mental rape" (as occurred in the Oregon case).

 

If that's being "free to act", then I guess one of us has misunderstood the notion of freedom.

 

Furthermore, if you are trying, as it seems, to portray some equivalence between Christianity on the one hand and homosexuality on the other, I think that's absurd. Christianity is a belief system which underpins all of Western culture; homosexuality is a practice which has been alternately accepted and reviled throughout history.

 

But discussion of that would take us even further off the OP topic than we are already.

Edited June 10, 2017 by RickBradford

[dunroaming]

31 minutes ago, Grouse said:

TM is a selfish bitch to even consider an alliance with the DUP. She should have tried a minority government. I am appalled at the risk she takes ?

Exactly why she needs to be closely monitored over Brexit for all our sakes.

 

Just heard that her top Tories are telling her to dump her two top advisors or face a leadership challenge.  She has the weekend to do it.  Let's see how the "bloody difficult woman" deals with that.

[dunroaming]

9 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Exactly why she needs to be closely monitored over Brexit for all our sakes.

 

Just heard that her top Tories are telling her to dump her two top advisors or face a leadership challenge.  She has the weekend to do it.  Let's see how the "bloody difficult woman" deals with that.

That was quick, Both have "resigned".  Three years as her closest confidents and whoosh! They are gone.  Desperate woman trying to hang on to power at any cost.

Edited June 10, 2017 by dunroaming

[Bannoi]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

He did not support the IRA anymore than I did. He was pro dialogue, and in the end dialogue won. I think one has to look beyond the atrocious behaviour on both sides and read the history. Do you know how the troubles started? Worth the read. As always, nothing is as clear as we like to think. I for one am amazed and grateful that there has been a resolution of sorts. We DO NOT want to go back to those days. TM is a selfish bitch to even consider an alliance with the DUP. She should have tried a minority government. I am appalled at the risk she takes ?

I couldn't agree with you more dialogue got us to where we are now but it is in a lot of ways an uneasy truce it only works because both sides feel equal and share power.

 

For those who don't know DUP = UDA/UFF....... Sinn Fein = IRA/PIRA  if Sinn Fein feels the DUP are being given preferential treatment or the DUP or loyalist community are being favoured the good Friday agreement could burst into flames.

 

Let no one be under any misapprehension that all the Republican and Loyalist paramilitary weapons and explosives were destroyed.

 

The vast majority of people don't want to go back to those day but there are still a few hot heads on both sides that would relish it some especially on the republican side see the Good Friday Agreement as a betrayal a sell out.

 

Theresa May needs to tread very carefully she is playing with fire though I don't expect her to be there very long.

Edited June 10, 2017 by Bannoi

[rott]

10 hours ago, Grouse said:

You've heard of Ian Paisley?

 

The orangemen?

 

paramilitaries?

 

I'd read up a bit.....

 

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/7-things-dup-done-show-13162780

 

 

 

Ian Paisley was neither an Orangeman nor a paramilitary.

[rott]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

He did not support the IRA anymore than I did. He was pro dialogue, and in the end dialogue won. I think one has to look beyond the atrocious behaviour on both sides and read the history. Do you know how the troubles started? Worth the read. As always, nothing is as clear as we like to think. I for one am amazed and grateful that there has been a resolution of sorts. We DO NOT want to go back to those days. TM is a selfish bitch to even consider an alliance with the DUP. She should have tried a minority government. I am appalled at the risk she takes ?

Exactly which planet are you from? Corbyn has always supported PIRA/Sinn Fein, hasnever condemned them or classed yhem as 

 

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

He did not support the IRA anymore than I did. He was pro dialogue, and in the end dialogue won. I think one has to look beyond the atrocious behaviour on both sides and read the history. Do you know how the troubles started? Worth the read. As always, nothing is as clear as we like to think. I for one am amazed and grateful that there has been a resolution of sorts. We DO NOT want to go back to those days. TM is a selfish bitch to even consider an alliance with the DUP. She should have tried a minority government. I am appalled at the wrisk she takes ?

Which planet are you from, Corbyn did not support the IRA?. He always supported PIRA Sinn Fein, he has never condemned the or even described them as terrorists. Compare his statements following the Islamist outrage in Manchester to his silence following the IRA bomb there.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

That was quick, Both have "resigned".  Three years as her closest confidents and whoosh! They are gone.  Desperate woman trying to hang on to power at any cost.

That will buy her time until maybe September.

Edited June 10, 2017 by NanLaew

[NanLaew]

44 minutes ago, rott said:

Ian Paisley was neither an Orangeman nor a paramilitary.

Nobody said he was.

(but he came close to the latter with the 'Third Force' malarkey)

 

PS. Then I found this

 

"Ian Paisley was a former member of the Orange Institution and addressed the Independent Orange Order ever 12th July. This association led Mr. Paisley to play a rule in the 1995 Drumcree conflict over Orange Order marches in Portadown."

Edited June 10, 2017 by NanLaew

[JAG]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

He did not support the IRA anymore than I did. He was pro dialogue, and in the end dialogue won. I think one has to look beyond the atrocious behaviour on both sides and read the history. Do you know how the troubles started? Worth the read. As always, nothing is as clear as we like to think. I for one am amazed and grateful that there has been a resolution of sorts. We DO NOT want to go back to those days. TM is a selfish bitch to even consider an alliance with the DUP. She should have tried a minority government. I am appalled at the risk she takes ?

Jeremy Corbyn appeared frequently on platforms alongside Sinn Fein leaders, including Gerry Adams, whilst the IRA campaign was under way. He attended and spoke at events to honour dead IRA terrorists and prisoners, often on the same platform as Adams.

 

At one such event, which he attended in 1988, held one week after the IRA murdered three British servicemen in Holland, it was  stated that “force of arms is the only method capable of bringing about a free and united Socialist Ireland.” Mr Corbyn  spoke at that event. I would suggest that he supported the IRA.

 

I spent a significant part of the first 20 years of my professional military career serving in the province of Northern Ireland. I am well aware of the hideous murderous actions of both the Republican and Loyalist terrorists. I have literally picked up body parts as a result of some of their actions, actions to which Corbyn gave his tacit support.

 

I am also well versed in how the "Troubles" began, and in how they were turned into a vicious long running terrorist campaign which led to the death of over 700 British Soldiers, over 300 policemen, and over 1800 civilians. Several were good friends of mine. I was present when one died., and I spoke to another twenty minutes before he was fatally wounded. So yes, "Grouse", I do know what I am talking about. No, I do not want to go back to those days. The DUP, whether or not you like it or its policies (I don't very much) is a legal, constitutional political party which won its seats at Westminster in a fair and open election, just as Labour, the SNP  the Conservatives and every other party did.. They have every right to take part in the current political process, and Mrs May has every right to include them in it. To refer to her as a "selfish bitch" for doing so is to sink to the level of abuse and bigotry which so often masqueraded as political discourse in Northern Irish politics during the "Troubles". 

 

Or are you up to your usual game of just trying to pick a fight?

Edited June 10, 2017 by JAG

[thequietman]

1 hour ago, rott said:

Ian Paisley was neither an Orangeman nor a paramilitary.

Yes, you keep telling yourself that.

[ilostmypassword]

12 hours ago, RickBradford said:

Do you think it is correct to legally force private businesses and individuals to do things which go against their conscience?

Like in the South where good white Southern Baptists were forced to accept nonwhite customers.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, JAG said:

Jeremy Corbyn appeared frequently on platforms alongside Sinn Fein leaders, including Gerry Adams, whilst the IRA campaign was under way. He attended and spoke at events to honour dead IRA terrorists and prisoners, often on the same platform as Adams.

 

At one such event, which he attended in 1988, held one week after the IRA murdered three British servicemen in Holland, it was  stated that “force of arms is the only method capable of bringing about a free and united Socialist Ireland.” Mr Corbyn  spoke at that event. I would suggest that he supported the IRA.

 

I spent a significant part of the first 20 years of my professional military career serving in the province of Northern Ireland. I am well aware of the hideous murderous actions of both the Republican and Loyalist terrorists. I have literally picked up body parts as a result of some of their actions, actions to which Corbyn gave his tacit support.

 

I am also well versed in how the "Troubles" began, and in how they were turned into a vicious long running terrorist campaign which led to the death of over 700 British Soldiers, over 300 policemen, and over 1800 civilians. Several were good friends of mine. I was present when one died., and I spoke to another twenty minutes before he was fatally wounded. So yes, "Grouse", I do know what I am talking about. No, I do not want to go back to those days. The DUP, whether or not you like it or its policies (I don't very much) is a legal, constitutional political party which won its seats at Westminster in a fair and open election, just as Labour, the SNP  the Conservatives and every other party did.. They have every right to take part in the current political process, and Mrs May has every right to include them in it. To refer to her as a "selfish bitch" for doing so is to sink to the level of abuse and bigotry which so often masqueraded as political discourse in Northern Irish politics during the "Troubles". 

 

Or are you up to your usual game of just trying to pick a fight?

No, not at all.

 

I admire your bravery and service!

 

My point is that in a delicate / unstable equilibrium, small inputs can result in massive consequences.

 

May should have gone with a minority government rather than risk a calamity.

[Mojomor]

The KKK are pussies by comparison.

[Kadilo]

Here are some of the DUP’s more … erm … colourful opinions or convictions :
Abortion should be “ruled out for rape victims”
The Pope is the Anti-Christ
Gay couples “more likely to abuse children”
“Homosexuality is an abomination”
No gay marriage
“Gays more vile than child abusers”
Attempts to reduce CO2 emissions are “Green propaganda”
Claims that fossil fuels will run out are “nonsense”
“Man-made climate change is a con”
Creationism should be “taught in every school”
Removal of evolutionary teaching from the curriculum
The 60 million-year-old Giant’s Causeway is only 6,000 years old
Line dancing is “sinful”
The DUP is also funded by a dodgy businessman with links to Saudi intelligence.
Just when we thought we’d seen the back of the barmy UKIP loonies, Theresa May’s getting into bed with an even more tin-foil hat bunch of fruitcakes.

..........disgraceful (apart from line dancing, they got a point there )


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[shaurene]

19 hours ago, Grouse said:

You've heard of Ian Paisley?

 

The orangemen?

 

paramilitaries?

 

I'd read up a bit.....

 

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/7-things-dup-done-show-13162780

 

 

 

Hi Grouse

Orangemen refer to the Orange Lodge. They were formed by the Protistants and supported William of Orange. The Dutch Prince who came over to England with a large Army and became the King, they refered to him as William of Orange. He was strong Protistant. He sailed over to Ireland and did battle with the Irish Catholics.

[rott]

8 hours ago, thequietman said:

Yes, you keep telling yourself that.

Thank you for giving a public display of your ignorance. The regalia (collarette) he is wearing is for the Apprentice Boys of Derry. It must have been a joint turnout, which is a rare event.

 

As for the beret, if that indicates membership of a proscribed paramilitary organisation why was he not imprisoned for it.

[rott]

10 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Nobody said he was.

(but he came close to the latter with the 'Third Force' malarkey)

 

PS. Then I found this

 

"Ian Paisley was a former member of the Orange Institution and addressed the Independent Orange Order ever 12th July. This association led Mr. Paisley to play a rule in the 1995 Drumcree conflict over Orange Order marches in Portadown."

News to me that he was ever a member of the Orange, if he was it must have been briefly as a very young man. I will check it out.

 

Yes he addressed the Independent Orange on the 12th for yearsbut not as a member.

 

I was not in the UK in 95 and cannot closely recall events of that year, but so what if he had a role he was public figure and leader of a political party.

 

 

[thequietman]

1 hour ago, rott said:

Thank you for giving a public display of your ignorance. The regalia (collarette) he is wearing is for the Apprentice Boys of Derry. It must have been a joint turnout, which is a rare event.

 

As for the beret, if that indicates membership of a proscribed paramilitary organisation why was he not imprisoned for it.

On 10 November 1986, a large private rally was held in the Ulster Hall. At the rally, Paisley and DUP members Peter Robinson and Ivan Foster announced the formation of the Ulster Resistance Movement (URM). This was a loyalist paramilitary organization whose purpose was to "take direct action as and when required" to bring down the Agreement and defeat republicanism.[65] Paisley, who stood on the platform in a red beret, said "there are many like myself who'd like to see the Agreement brought down by democratic means, but wouldn't we all be fools if we weren't prepared".[102] Other recruitment rallies were held in towns across Northern Ireland and the movement was organized into nine 'battalions'.[65] The following year, the URM helped smuggle a large shipment of weapons into Northern Ireland, which were shared out between the URM, UVF and UDA.

 

In 1989, URM members attempted to trade Shorts' missile blueprints for weapons from the apartheid South African regime.

 

The UPV led by the Reverend Ian Paisley and other fundamentalist Protestants. It was best known for bombing power stations and water supplies in March and April 1969

 

On the night of 6 February 1981, Paisley summoned journalists to a hillside in County Antrim, where he had gathered 500 men. The men were photographed in military formation, waving what purported to be firearms certificates in the air. Paisley declared: "This is a small token of the men who are placed to devastate any attempt by Margaret Thatcher and Charles Haughey to destroy the Union".[92] He added: "I will take full responsibility for anything these men do. We will stop at nothing."

Afterwards, Paisley gathered a throng of Orangemen and tried to push through the police lines, but was arrested. Loyalists threw missiles at the police and tried to break through the blockade; police responded with plastic bullets.

 

In April 1966, Paisley and his associate Noel Doherty founded the Ulster Constitution Defence Committee (UCDC) and its paramilitary wing, the Ulster Protestant Volunteers (UPV)

 

On 3 December, Paisley claimed that the Third Force had 15,000–20,000 members. James Prior, Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, replied that private armies would not be tolerated,

 

But like I said, you keep telling yourself he was not a member of a paramilitary organisation. He walked with the Orange men on a regular basis. If it walks like a chicken, looks like a chicken ................. then it's a chicken.

 

 

 

 

[pitrevie]

14 hours ago, Bannoi said:

I can just picture Ian Paisley standing on the other side of the table from Theresa May banging his fist on the table and shouting  NEVER......NEVER.......NEVER.......NEVER....... I met the man a few times in fact I used to live a stones throw from his church in Belfast he would have had her quaking in her shoes.

I gather in NI he was known as Doctor No. I used to enjoy his references to "The Scarlet Woman of Rome". Apparently late in his career he was interviewed and the interviewer asked him to speak up.

 

Some of Paisley's quotes are priceless.

 

"No, I wouldn't" - his response to John Hume, an SDLP politician who said that if the word "no" were removed from the English language, would Paisley be speechless.

"Let me smell your breath first, son" - Paisley's regular request to reporters, whom he suspected of drinking, before he would allow them to interview him.

"Catholic homes caught fire because they were loaded with petrol bombs; 

 

However your remark,

" I met the man a few times in fact I used to live a stones throw from his church in Belfast." had me chuckling.

[PattayaJames]

 

[Kiwiken]

On a similar vein but different tack do you not think it is equally twisted that a minority of people (Our so called Representatives) believe they have a mandate to dictate to Us what Our moral and ethical beliefs should be. When did those elected to represent us all get the right to Dictate without asking for approval from a majority of Society. Government should be by the People for the People. Not elected benevolent (mostly) Dictatorship. Vox populi de libertatibus ne novis studet praesignificare

[ballpoint]

British voters wake up?  No, the evidence would suggest they still haven't.

[robblok]

23 hours ago, baboon said:

 

Ah religious terrorist.. where have i seen those before.. ah.. the middle east.. but I guess canuckamuck approves because they are of the same brand of crazy as he is. Its a shame religion is making a comeback forcing their ideas on people who think otherwise.  

 

Religion is all fine as long as its not forced upon others who don't believe. Ah i guess its a step up from the old ways when religious people burned others. I am all fine with religion when its practiced in home and not forced upon others, I am all for free religion for everyone too bad religious people just want others to obey their brand of crazy. 

 

Its a sad day that for the UK that people like this hold so much power, unfortunately at my home some of those same religious people (though not supporting armed conflict) are getting a lot of power too. Similar reasons they are also needed to form a government even though they don't have many votes.  Democracy is fine but it certainly has its down sides when small parties like this get so much power even though in votes they are marginalized. 

[canuckamuck]

44 minutes ago, robblok said:

Ah religious terrorist.. where have i seen those before.. ah.. the middle east.. but I guess canuckamuck approves because they are of the same brand of crazy as he is. Its a shame religion is making a comeback forcing their ideas on people who think otherwise.  

 

Religion is all fine as long as its not forced upon others who don't believe. Ah i guess its a step up from the old ways when religious people burned others. I am all fine with religion when its practiced in home and not forced upon others, I am all for free religion for everyone too bad religious people just want others to obey their brand of crazy. 

 

Its a sad day that for the UK that people like this hold so much power, unfortunately at my home some of those same religious people (though not supporting armed conflict) are getting a lot of power too. Similar reasons they are also needed to form a government even though they don't have many votes.  Democracy is fine but it certainly has its down sides when small parties like this get so much power even though in votes they are marginalized. 

Having only a basic knowledge of the history of British political movements, I based my comment on the article which purported to explain who the DUP are and what they have done.  I have never heard of them otherwise. There was no mention of violence or terrorism in the article.

The article represented the DUP as moral conservatives, and I though to myself that this is exactly what May will need as ally as she goes into negotiations with the dark anti-civilization forces of the EU.

 

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, rott said:

...but so what if he had a role he was public figure and leader of a political party.

The same sort of excuse that some will arbitrarily toss out with regard to Corbyn's past history of happily sharing a podium with similarly odious elements?

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, rott said:

... The regalia (collarette) he is wearing is for the Apprentice Boys of Derry. It must have been a joint turnout, which is a rare event. ...

 

Ah yes, the benign Apprentice Boys of Derry.

 

"In 1969, the Apprentice Boys' parade around the walls of Derry sparked off three days of intensive rioting in the city, known as the Battle of the Bogside. The disturbances are regarded by some as the start of the Troubles."

[Bannoi]

1 hour ago, pitrevie said:

I gather in NI he was known as Doctor No. I used to enjoy his references to "The Scarlet Woman of Rome". Apparently late in his career he was interviewed and the interviewer asked him to speak up.

 

Some of Paisley's quotes are priceless.

 

"No, I wouldn't" - his response to John Hume, an SDLP politician who said that if the word "no" were removed from the English language, would Paisley be speechless.

"Let me smell your breath first, son" - Paisley's regular request to reporters, whom he suspected of drinking, before he would allow them to interview him.

"Catholic homes caught fire because they were loaded with petrol bombs; 

 

However your remark,

" I met the man a few times in fact I used to live a stones throw from his church in Belfast." had me chuckling.

The one I remember most first time I heard it I was drinking a cup of tea at the time and I spat it out all over the table.

 

"Catholics they breed like rabbits and multiply like vermin"

 

and this is typical of the people Theresa May is getting into bed with.