Patong - The Wake

[LivinginKata]

7 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Have noticed this elsewhere LiK.........re-named or am I missing the point??

 

No doubt renamed. I suppose I just think in the older names along Nanai. Like I call Nanai 9 - Soi Verikit (spelling ?) 20+ years ago there was only Nanai 1 and Nanai 2. One of these decades they will get round to updating the house papers to show the new road designation rather than the present original house on Nanai Road with a slash 1-200+ added on. I remember 21 years ago they last revamp the postal addresses. My house went from 54/something to 68/something Nanai Road.

[madmax2]

On 1/22/2018 at 9:29 PM, Mysterion said:

I agree that investors need to be extra careful when investing in a foreign country that they are not as familiar with. That applies to stocks, bonds, currency, and real-estate etc.

 

For property seekers, if they are uncomfortable with both the risk & reward, they should just rent.

 

Renting will help them and their landlords sleep well at night.

 

 

 

 

Yes you are better of renting than paying the ridiculous prices set by foreign real estate agents on properties here, people end up getting less than they could have got when they first put their properties on the market if they had asked a reasonable in the beginning, everyone looses interest agents and buyers in old unsold listings same everywhere in the world, they end up taking their property out of agents hands and market it themselves most of the time to sell, regularly see owners advertising their

property at half the agents recommended price to sell it

Last property sold near us was 5 holiday units on a block of land listed for sale at 12M baht, the owner eventually sold them for 5M baht

[Mysterion]

4 hours ago, madmax2 said:

Yes you are better of renting than paying the ridiculous prices set by foreign real estate agents on properties here, people end up getting less than they could have got when they first put their properties on the market if they had asked a reasonable in the beginning, everyone looses interest agents and buyers in old unsold listings same everywhere in the world, they end up taking their property out of agents hands and market it themselves most of the time to sell, regularly see owners advertising their

property at half the agents recommended price to sell it

Last property sold near us was 5 holiday units on a block of land listed for sale at 12M baht, the owner eventually sold them for 5M baht

Sounds like the guy who bought it for 5m baht may have got a great deal from a very motivated seller.

 

Those are the kind of deals that are of interest to “vulture investors”.

 

Are you aware of any other very-motivated sellers now? Perhaps one of my friends would be keen to invest.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Mysterion

[NamKangMan]

4 hours ago, Mysterion said:

Sounds like the guy who bought it for 5m baht may have got a great deal from a very motivated seller.

 

Those are the kind of deals that are of interest to “vulture investors”.

 

Are you aware of any other very-motivated sellers now? Perhaps one of my friends would be keen to invest.

 

People either paid way over the odds in the past, or the market has plummeted.  Probably a combination of both.

 

The question is, using mm2's example, will the 5 million sale "make" in the future, or continue to "lose" in the future, and be sold for perhaps 3 million?

 

You say at 5 million it was a "great deal."  Not so, if in the future it can only be sold for 3 million.  Time will tell, but, this is not an isolated case, it is an island wide trend.

 

So, what does that tell you about the direction the property market is heading here, and rapidly????????

 

Tell me, why at 5 million do you think the "trough" has ended, and it's now heading up towards a "peak?" 

 

And, even if the market is heading towards a peak, that peak will still be a trough for many who bought in, so the losses are enormous, and losers, are many.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2018 by NamKangMan

[Mysterion]

32 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

People either paid way over the odds in the past, or the market has plummeted.  Probably a combination of both.

 

The question is, using mm2's example, will the 5 million sale "make" in the future, or continue to "lose" in the future, and be sold for perhaps 3 million?

 

You say at 5 million it was a "great deal."  Not so, if in the future it can only be sold for 3 million.  Time will tell, but, this is not an isolated case, it is an island wide trend.

 

So, what does that tell you about the direction the property market is heading here, and rapidly????????

 

Tell me, why at 5 million do you think the "trough" has ended, and it's now heading up towards a "peak?" 

 

And, even if the market is heading towards a peak, that peak will still be a trough for many who bought in, so the losses are enormous, and losers, are many.

 

 

 

 

We obviously need more details about the property to know if its truly a great deal. Thats why i said “may have got a great deal”.

 

On the surface, five units for 5 million(a 58% discount from initial asking price) would imply that there was sudden distress/motivation, and likely a deal. The buyer apparently thought is was a deal.

 

Perhaps the units are really worth 10million, or maybe just the 5million paid, or maybe only 4 million etc? Need more details to valuate.

 

NKM, please do let me know if your friends are motivated to sell any properties. I may know someone interested in helping to relieve them of their property problems.

 

 

Edited January 25, 2018 by Mysterion

[NamKangMan]

2 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

We obviously need more details about the property to know if its truly a great deal. Thats why i said “may have got a great deal”.

 

On the surface, five units for 5 million,m(a 58% discount from initial asking price) would imply that there was sudden distress/motivation, and likely a deal.

 

Perhaps the units are really worth 10million, or maybe just the 5million paid, or maybe only 4 million etc? Need more details to valuate.

 

NKM, please do let me know if your friends are motivated to sell any properties. I may know someone interested in helping to relieve them of their property problems.

 

 

 

Just check the online websites and drive around and see the endless for sale signs. 

 

There are thousands, yes, thousands, despite your play on words in a previous post.  Where I come from, any number over 1000, means, "thousands" because the numbers have gone into the next millennium, in this case, properties for sale.  

 

More than enough for you to chose from, Mysterion.

 

Plenty of future loses out there for those buying in, even now. 

[madmax2]

4 hours ago, Mysterion said:

Sounds like the guy who bought it for 5m baht may have got a great deal from a very motivated seller.

 

Those are the kind of deals that are of interest to “vulture investors”.

 

Are you aware of any other very-mot youivated sellers now? Perhaps one of my friends would be keen to invest.

I really do not need you or one of your friends to buy a property if its worth buying in my opinion

I have forgotten more about buying and selling property than you will ever know and have plenty of funds myself

[Mysterion]

8 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

Just check the online websites and drive around and see the endless for sale signs. 

 

There are thousands, yes, thousands, despite your play on words in a previous post.  Where I come from, any number over 1000, means, "thousands" because the numbers have gone into the next millennium, in this case, properties for sale.  

 

More than enough for you to chose from, Mysterion.

 

Plenty of future loses out there for those buying in, even now. 

As already discussed, you are misleading the forum members with incorrect information. There are not “thousands” of foreign freehold units for sale. Please re-read the previous reply to your erroneous post.

 

I do checkout the websites monthly. In my opinion, there are not allot of deals out there. I often see the same property on multiple websites. I wish there were more deals, but most sellers are looking for top dollar.

 

You are obviously not a fan of buying, and that is perfectly fine as it makes both you and your landlord very happy. 

 

Phuket loves both renters and buyers, and wants even more to come here to enjoy all the joys of phuket island living.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mysterion]

1 minute ago, madmax2 said:

I really do not need you or one of your friends to buy a property if its worth buying in my opinion

I have forgotten more about buying and selling property than you will ever know and have plenty of funds myself

Your statements are becoming more and more absurd. You know nothing about my experience in real estate. Please try to keep the discussion positive and rational.

 

That is good that you also appear openminded to worthy property investments.

 

One does need an open mind, as there will almost always be a certain price that makes a property investment attractive to those that have funds.

 

Your landlord and you will sleep very well at night until you find that property priced right for you.

 

[NamKangMan]

14 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

As already discussed, you are misleading the forum members with incorrect information. There are not “thousands” of foreign freehold units for sale. Please re-read the previous reply to your erroneous post.

 

I do checkout the websites monthly. In my opinion, there are not allot of deals out there. I often see the same property on multiple websites. I wish there were more deals, but most sellers are looking for top dollar.

 

You are obviously not a fan of buying, and that is perfectly fine as it makes both you and your landlord very happy. 

 

Phuket loves both renters and buyers, and wants even more to come here to enjoy all the joys of phuket island living.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"There are not “thousands” of foreign freehold units for sale." - another play on words.

 

Who cares if the properties are foreign freehold or Thai owned????  Properties for sale are properties for sale. 

 

A lot of people want to sell here at the moment, thus, thousands, yes, thousands, of properties are for sale here, right this very minute. 

 

Who cares who is selling them - they are for sale. 

[Peterw42]

16 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"There are not “thousands” of foreign freehold units for sale." - another play on words.

 

Who cares if the properties are foreign freehold or Thai owned????  Properties for sale are properties for sale. 

 

A lot of people want to sell here at the moment, thus, thousands, yes, thousands, of properties are for sale here, right this very minute. 

 

Who cares who is selling them - they are for sale. 

 

Maybe 1,000s for sale, even if this is true, phuket is the same size as Singapore with a permanent population of 500,000 people and a yearly tourist population of 5-6 million, maybe 1,000s isnt to bad.

 

I suggest you visit the phuket land office on any given day, you will see hundreds of people, possibly thousands over a month. And Guess what, at least half of them are buying, the other half are selling.

 

Do you really think developers would keep building if they are not selling.

 

A friend of mine bought 2 condos last week, and only a few close friends know. He didnt put a sold sign on it and possibly its still listed on a couple of sites.

 

 

[Mysterion]

44 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"There are not “thousands” of foreign freehold units for sale." - another play on words.

 

Who cares if the properties are foreign freehold or Thai owned????  Properties for sale are properties for sale. 

 

A lot of people want to sell here at the moment, thus, thousands, yes, thousands, of properties are for sale here, right this very minute. 

 

Who cares who is selling them - they are for sale. 

It makes a huge difference for an informed investor.

 

Are you aware that a foreign-freehold condo is the only real estate that a foreign buyer can legally own in Thailand?

 

 

 

 

[NamKangMan]

12 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

It makes a huge difference for an informed investor.

 

Are you aware that a foreign-freehold condo is the only real estate that a foreign buyer can legally own in Thailand?

 

 

 

 

 

"the only real estate that a foreign buyer can legally own in Thailand?"- how misleading to newbies.

 

The condo floats in the air, does it????

 

How about you make a comment on the land the condo block sits on. 

[NamKangMan]

33 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

 

Maybe 1,000s for sale, even if this is true, phuket is the same size as Singapore with a permanent population of 500,000 people and a yearly tourist population of 5-6 million, maybe 1,000s isnt to bad.

 

I suggest you visit the phuket land office on any given day, you will see hundreds of people, possibly thousands over a month. And Guess what, at least half of them are buying, the other half are selling.

 

Do you really think developers would keep building if they are not selling.

 

A friend of mine bought 2 condos last week, and only a few close friends know. He didnt put a sold sign on it and possibly its still listed on a couple of sites.

 

 

 

Talk it up all you like Pete, but 1000's are on the market, with many being on the market for several years.

 

Owners want rid of their Phuket properties here for a variety of reasons, but for whatever their reason, they want to sell. 

 

Who cares if they are out of line sales, or fair market price sales, that's for the ones that actually DO GET SOLD. 

 

There are thousands on the market here for sale, and ANYONE thinking of buying, should ask themselves, WHY????

[Mysterion]

46 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"the only real estate that a foreign buyer can legally own in Thailand?"- how misleading to newbies.

 

The condo floats in the air, does it????

 

How about you make a comment on the land the condo block sits on. 

How could that be misleading?

 

Please dont be so silly. 

 

I hope you would be aware that all the unit holders of a freehold condo collectively own the freehold land under the condo.

 

Thais must own at least 51% of the units, and that could arguably be a good thing, as they have an even greater vested interest in owning a good property on a good lot. 

 

However, some would argue that there is neither an added benefit or risk with that structure.

 

i hope that helps. 

[madmax2]

13 hours ago, Mysterion said:

Your statements are becoming more and more absurd. You know nothing about my experience in real estate. Please try to keep the discussion positive and rational.

 

That is good that you also appear openminded to worthy property investments.

 

One does need an open mind, as there will almost always be a certain price that makes a property investment attractive to those that have funds.

 

Your landlord and you will sleep very well at night until you find that property priced right for you.

 

And what makes you think i have a landlord???

[steelepulse]

12 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

Talk it up all you like Pete, but 1000's are on the market, with many being on the market for several years.

 

Owners want rid of their Phuket properties here for a variety of reasons, but for whatever their reason, they want to sell. 

 

Who cares if they are out of line sales, or fair market price sales, that's for the ones that actually DO GET SOLD. 

 

There are thousands on the market here for sale, and ANYONE thinking of buying, should ask themselves, WHY????

I'm going to call you on this again.  Besides the Siam Real Estate website who we all know never pulls down listings for rentals or sales, what other evidence do you have in regards to your numbers?

[xylophone]

58 minutes ago, steelepulse said:

I'm going to call you on this again.  Besides the Siam Real Estate website who we all know never pulls down listings for rentals or sales, what other evidence do you have in regards to your numbers?

I'm not sure that there are actually thousands of properties for sale here SP, however a look at the websites here such as Tropical Properties, Phuket Net, Phuket Buy House, Phuket Properties, St James Properties and there are many more (Welta etc, etc), would suggest that there could well be a thousand or more out there.

 

And this does not take into consideration private sales, or those from the more obscure websites.

 

In addition I do know that some of these websites have been "cleaned up" in the past few years because of old listings that were never removed when sold, so these days they just might be a fairer reflection of what is available.

 

I think more to the point, from my perspective anyway, is that in all of the years I have been here, I have only known one person who has sold his property for more than he bought it for, whereas all of the others have sold at a loss, or they were offered far less than they paid for it so decided not to sell.

 

Talking up the property market here is what real estate agents want to do for obvious reasons and this place is still known as the "wild west" with regards to real estate agents and property sales, and not without reason, and a friend of mine in the real estate business here said to me just a few days ago that, "if he could take off his moral hat and forget about it, he could sell many more properties here but he wasn't prepared to stoop that low".

 

 

 

 

 

[steelepulse]

15 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I'm not sure that there are actually thousands of properties for sale here SP, however a look at the websites here such as Tropical Properties, Phuket Net, Phuket Buy House, Phuket Properties, St James Properties and there are many more (Welta etc, etc), would suggest that there could well be a thousand or more out there.

 

And this does not take into consideration private sales, or those from the more obscure websites.

 

In addition I do know that some of these websites have been "cleaned up" in the past few years because of old listings that were never removed when sold, so these days they just might be a fairer reflection of what is available.

 

I think more to the point, from my perspective anyway, is that in all of the years I have been here, I have only known one person who has sold his property for more than he bought it for, whereas all of the others have sold at a loss, or they were offered far less than they paid for it so decided not to sell.

 

Talking up the property market here is what real estate agents want to do for obvious reasons and this place is still known as the "wild west" with regards to real estate agents and property sales, and not without reason, and a friend of mine in the real estate business here said to me just a few days ago that, "if he could take off his moral hat and forget about it, he could sell many more properties here but he wasn't prepared to stoop that low".

 

 

 

 

 

I dare say a lot of those properties overlap, but with the numbers of houses and units on the island, it would be healthy to have more than a handful of units/properties available.

 

I also agree with the property naysayers that the vast majority of "agents" have no clue about real estate, property, the law, or anything else that someone that had to study to get a license in their home country knows.  

 

I know I sold various properties at a profit, so I can say I definitely know someone that has sold at a profit.

 

Anyway, back to the topic, I appreciate your write ups of Patong xylophone.  I recall in  the late 90's going there daily when it was loads of fun, but over the years my visits have become a lot less frequent.

[NamKangMan]

1 hour ago, steelepulse said:

I'm going to call you on this again.  Besides the Siam Real Estate website who we all know never pulls down listings for rentals or sales, what other evidence do you have in regards to your numbers?

 

 

Fair play, SP. 

 

From memory, the last figures I gave, directly from that ONE website only, was something like 1500 properties for sale, excluding land.

 

Can I guarantee to members of TV ALL 1500 properties are still on the market, of course I can't. 

 

However, you can not guarantee the vast majority of them on the website are left online, in error.  I mean, we could debate about what percentage we think are genuinely for sale, and what percentage have been sold, and not removed, but it would have to be a considerable margin of error to come under my claim of "1000's of properties for sale here." 

 

I mean, to get under the 1000 mark, you are looking at around a 33% error margin.  Do you really think it would be that high?

 

Now, using your claim of an inaccurate online real estate agent, what about the owners who contacted the website last week, or even last month for that matter, and their property hasn't "gone live" as yet.  They would be have to be factored in as well, wouldn't they?  They are properties for sale that are NOT currently on the website, but soon will be.

 

I am aware the same properties are advertised across different websites, this is why I picked only one, and probably the biggest one.  There are also private sales, Facebook sales, word of mouth sales, "Bath Sold" private ads, deceased estates, signs in bars, TV classifieds etc etc.  Many of these never hit an online real estate agent, in order to save on commission.

 

I stand by my claim there are 1000's of properties for sale on Phuket.  Can you tell me why you do not think this to be the case? 

 

 

[NamKangMan]

13 hours ago, Mysterion said:

How could that be misleading?

 

Please dont be so silly. 

 

I hope you would be aware that all the unit holders of a freehold condo collectively own the freehold land under the condo.

 

Thais must own at least 51% of the units, and that could arguably be a good thing, as they have an even greater vested interest in owning a good property on a good lot. 

 

However, some would argue that there is neither an added benefit or risk with that structure.

 

i hope that helps. 

 

Would you care to comment on the voting rights of foreign owners, under this ownership structure????  

[NamKangMan]

 

Just to clarify for members, as I have in a previous post, once the TRUE amount of properties for sale exceed 1000, the amount enters the next millennium, thus, can be described as "1000's."

 

For the record, I am not suggesting there are, for example, 10,000 properties for sale here.

 

I am suggesting there is over 1000 properties for sale here, excluding land. 

[xylophone]

17 minutes ago, steelepulse said:

I know I sold various properties at a profit, so I can say I definitely know someone that has sold at a profit.

 

Anyway, back to the topic, I appreciate your write ups of Patong xylophone.  I recall in  the late 90's going there daily when it was loads of fun, but over the years my visits have become a lot less frequent.

Good on you for selling at a profit SP however I wonder how recent that was, because I think that 10 years ago (or thereabouts) it may have been a little easier to sell at a profit. I say that knowing that I did exactly that, but I don't think I could now, in fact I know I couldn't because of those friends who have had to sell well below their purchase price!

 

Thanks for your kind words regarding my Bangla visits and Patong in general and good to know that you were once a regular visitor, but pray tell, why have your visits become a lot less frequent? (If I'm being too nosy, then no need to answer!).

 

Back to the property thing.............Mysterion's business model seems to be to talk the market up so that people buy; seek out those people who have bought (possibly because of his recommendation) and need to sell quickly, but who can't because the market is flat, and then seek a buyer at a discounted price, thereby making his commission twice and so on.

 

Not only that, then tout for business on threads like this by talking the market up, or asking for leads from friends of desperate sellers. 

 

Doesn't do it for me I'm afraid.........not where my moral compass is pointed!

 

[steelepulse]

14 minutes ago, xylophone said:

 

 

Thanks for your kind words regarding my Bangla visits and Patong in general and good to know that you were once a regular visitor, but pray tell, why have your visits become a lot less frequent? (If I'm being too nosy, then no need to answer!).

 

Where to start?

 

40 minute drive, no parking, nothing I haven't seen before, too many touts etc. etc.

 

Easier to hit up my locals for live music and a cold one.

[Mysterion]

2 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

Would you care to comment on the voting rights of foreign owners, under this ownership structure????  

 

I already mentioned that thais must own at least 51% of thr units. What more do you want to know?

[Mysterion]

2 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

 

Fair play, SP. 

 

From memory, the last figures I gave, directly from that ONE website only, was something like 1500 properties for sale, excluding land.

 

Can I guarantee to members of TV ALL 1500 properties are still on the market, of course I can't. 

 

However, you can not guarantee the vast majority of them on the website are left online, in error.  I mean, we could debate about what percentage we think are genuinely for sale, and what percentage have been sold, and not removed, but it would have to be a considerable margin of error to come under my claim of "1000's of properties for sale here." 

 

I mean, to get under the 1000 mark, you are looking at around a 33% error margin.  Do you really think it would be that high?

 

Now, using your claim of an inaccurate online real estate agent, what about the owners who contacted the website last week, or even last month for that matter, and their property hasn't "gone live" as yet.  They would be have to be factored in as well, wouldn't they?  They are properties for sale that are NOT currently on the website, but soon will be.

 

I am aware the same properties are advertised across different websites, this is why I picked only one, and probably the biggest one.  There are also private sales, Facebook sales, word of mouth sales, "Bath Sold" private ads, deceased estates, signs in bars, TV classifieds etc etc.  Many of these never hit an online real estate agent, in order to save on commission.

 

I stand by my claim there are 1000's of properties for sale on Phuket.  Can you tell me why you do not think this to be the case? 

 

 

Your claim was already debunked as a “miscalculation” a few pages back in this thread.

 

The website you quoted as having 1700 for sale only had 850 houses, condos, and apartments. Of which, only about 150 were legal foreign freehold properties. You somehow doubled the total?!?!?

 

For the benefit of all, please stop with the continued misinformation. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Mysterion

[AJBangkok]

In some respect it doesn’t matter how many units are on the market. The more important number is actual days on the market. If you had data like that and published sale prices then the market would enjoy far more pricing clarity and would become more efficient. 

 

Reality is that a property is only worth the amount somebody is willing to pay for it. If your condo is on the market for 300 days and the average days on market is 120 days then you’ve probably got a price issue. 

 

 

 

 

[Mysterion]

6 minutes ago, AJBangkok said:

In some respect it doesn’t matter how many units are on the market. The more important number is actual days on the market. If you had data like that and published sale prices then the market would enjoy far more pricing clarity and would become more efficient. 

 

Reality is that a property is only worth the amount somebody is willing to pay for it. If your condo is on the market for 300 days and the average days on market is 120 days then you’ve probably got a price issue. 

 

 

 

 

I agree.

 

In addition, over the last couple of years of monitoring Phuket FOREIGN FREEHOLD property on various websites, I have observed few significant/real discounts, and no real “fire sales” advertised.

 

If the market was in a “weak state”, i would expect to see many unit prices being slashed dramatically, and that has not been happening.

 

That being said, if one does some deeper research via multiple agents or other connected parties, they may be able to find a few real motivated sellers and some bargains behind the scenes.

[Mysterion]

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

Good on you for selling at a profit SP however I wonder how recent that was, because I think that 10 years ago (or thereabouts) it may have been a little easier to sell at a profit. I say that knowing that I did exactly that, but I don't think I could now, in fact I know I couldn't because of those friends who have had to sell well below their purchase price!

 

Thanks for your kind words regarding my Bangla visits and Patong in general and good to know that you were once a regular visitor, but pray tell, why have your visits become a lot less frequent? (If I'm being too nosy, then no need to answer!).

 

Back to the property thing.............Mysterion's business model seems to be to talk the market up so that people buy; seek out those people who have bought (possibly because of his recommendation) and need to sell quickly, but who can't because the market is flat, and then seek a buyer at a discounted price, thereby making his commission twice and so on.

 

Not only that, then tout for business on threads like this by talking the market up, or asking for leads from friends of desperate sellers. 

 

Doesn't do it for me I'm afraid.........not where my moral compass is pointed!

 

Xylo,

 

I thought we had made peace about our “agreement to disagree” about property inveting in Phuket. Whats with your continued passionate vendetta to bring this property market down?

 

It’s  begining to sound like you have personally lost a small fortune on phuket property, and are very bitter about it.

 

Your “moral compass” seems to be extremely biased/unbalanced, and hence not working properly in regards to business and property investing. 

 

Taking a more balanced view usually leads to happier and more successful life,  and the glass could be half full if you look at it from both sides.

 

Cheer-up!

 

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Mysterion

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, Mysterion said:

Xylo,

 

I thought we had made peace about our “agreement to disagree” about property inveting in Phuket. Whats with your continued passionate vendetta to bring this property market down?

 

It’s  begining to sound like you have personally lost a small fortune on phuket property, and are very bitter about it.

 

Your “moral compass” seems to be extremely biased/unbalanced, and hence not working properly in regards to business and property investing. 

 

Taking a more balanced view usually leads to happier and more successful life,  and the glass could be half full if you look at it from both sides.

 

Cheer-up!

 

 

Sorry to have to disillusion you M, but you are wrong on every count of your post – – that is apart from our "agreement to disagree" which I had forgotten about.

 

I have no vendetta to bring the market down but I have every interest in stating things as I see them and as scores of friends see them and of course many posters here, and IMO this is not a good place to invest and sell property, period.

 

I am bitter about absolutely nothing and am one of the happiest people you will ever likely meet,  and for the record I have lost absolutely nothing on property here, however years ago I was lucky enough to make some money on it, so I do know a little about the property market especially as I have good friends working in it as well.

 

My moral compass does not allow me to profit from other people's misfortune, or to persuade people to invest in property here so that I can do so, but then again maybe that's just me, however I'm happy with that aspect of my life.

 

And as for your comment about taking a more balanced view leading me to a "happier and more successful life", well thank you for the laugh because I have lived a very happy and extremely successful life and hopefully will continue to do so. And none more so than when I achieved huge success when I was able to build an investment fund of $2 billion for an institution, starting from scratch, but then that's another story.

 

My glass is always half full, mainly because I spend something around 300,000 baht per annum on wine alone, so in fact it's hardly ever empty! Thinking about it I could spend three times that amount per annum on wine and still have enough to live on here for the next 30 or 40 years, so I've every reason to be happy and really do not need cheering up.

 

I have experienced working and living in different countries, in different environments, in different industries and achieved major accolades and rewards in every single one of them so a happier and more successful life I don't think I could have lived

 

No need to reply with comments about how I might pass on leads to you to help out my friends, because hopefully the "agreement to disagree" can be reinstated.