Patong - The Wake

[irishken]

On 11/1/2018 at 9:54 AM, simon43 said:

As a comparison to the tuk tuks in Patong, here are the equivalent in Mandalay. Clean,  cheap,  using GPS to calculate the cost of the journey, friendly drivers who speak English.

So the sidewalks in Mandalay are <deleted> as well? 

[xylophone]

I ventured out twice to Bangla last week because a friend was over from Australia and wanted to see some nightlife.

 

Surprisingly enough the road itself was packed with people walking to and fro, but not too many in the bars on the Halloween night, however two nights later it was very busy.

 

And what a surprise with the two "Bar Funk" bars and the associated music and light show in and around the two bars – – quite amazing really and the place was absolutely packed with just a couple of seating spaces available. Most noticeable however was the fact that the place seems to have got its positioning right with regards to demographics, because there were none of the typical bar mongers in the place, more younger folks/couples, enjoying the music, the drinks and the professional -looking girl dancing show.

 

Full marks to the owners if they've hit the spot, because I had my doubts early on in the piece. Having said that, the original Bar Funk just up the road was looking a bit sorry for itself.

 

Following on from what I've said previously with regards to demographics, New York was packed to the gunwales and outside, and later on so was Monsoon with Red Hot being just about full on one night, and not quite as full the next.

 

Interesting to note that just about none of the bars in one particular soi that I've mentioned previously have made any money in recent months so they will have to be hoping for a high season windfall, which I doubt will materialise in the manner in which they hope.

 

The majority of the punters in Red Hot seemed to be Russians, with one particular tall guy being so drunk he didn't quite know what he was doing and insisted on taking his shirt and jeans off, much to the chagrin of other punters and friends, however a security guard soon put him right.

 

From what I heard, they are very keen on buying cheap booze to consume with friends in their rooms, before heading out to top that up with the occasional drink elsewhere, because I certainly didn't see any drinks on the tables in Red Hot!

 

There seem to be a lot more Russians around than I have seen for many years and that has been borne out by the fact some mid/budget style hotels owned by friends of friends, are almost booked out now and ahead with them.

 

Around the place, the usual mystifying events are occurring, with about 6 roller blind shops opening up in Soi Nanai 8, directly opposite another four that have been closed for some time. Then I had to feel sorry for whomsoever built or owned any of the little orifices which passed for shops, alongside of the BQuik complex in the new middle road, as they have been deserted and are now being "re-presented", but so far off the beaten track with regards to passing traffic as to be ridiculous.

 

Then the vacant "shops" behind them, which would be nearly a dozen in number have been like that for many months now.

 

Add to this a couple more restaurants up for sale and a couple of guesthouses likewise and it would seem that the influx of Russians and the sometime Chinese are not contributing to much to some folks businesses.

 

The massage girls are hoping for a happy high season as their numbers have already increased in the massage parlours around Patong, just waiting for the punters to come along – – whether they will not in any number remains to be seen, because a lady owner of one I have known for years has said that this last year has been particularly bad and hard for them (oops I should watch my words here!).

 

So a bit of a mixed bag, however as my visiting friend has said, there always seems to be something happening in Patong, for better or for worse which gives it that "edge" so it can never get really boring in his opinion.

 

And believe it or not, he thinks Patong beach is lovely........however I couldn't possibly comment because I am not a beach person. 

 

 

[Psimbo]

On 11/2/2018 at 11:54 AM, LivinginKata said:

 

Yes there is a smart bus, BUT it only stops at one place at each beach town. And payment is by a prepaid card system. Fine for a savvy local, but not for a new tourist. 

Rubbish you can flag them down now. I see people along the main road in Kamala with the app on their phone- they know when the bus is coming and it stops for them. Chinese seem to have cottoned onto it fairly quickly. At the beginning there were few passengers- I have seen some now that are nearly, if not completely, full. The other day there were what appeared to be 3 working girls waiting for one as its a cheap way into Patong.

 

The taxi drivers outside the Big C really have a sulk on now- I love it. I realise that some people are gutted that the buses haven't been torched yet but hopefully they are the thin end of the wedge and we will see an extended service in the future. I even say a bus and minibus with I think Kata to Airport livery the other day- competition is good..

[LivinginKata]

1 hour ago, Psimbo said:

Rubbish you can flag them down now. I see people along the main road in Kamala with the app on their phone- they know when the bus is coming and it stops for them. Chinese seem to have cottoned onto it fairly quickly. At the beginning there were few passengers- I have seen some now that are nearly, if not completely, full. The other day there were what appeared to be 3 working girls waiting for one as its a cheap way into Patong.

 

The taxi drivers outside the Big C really have a sulk on now- I love it. I realise that some people are gutted that the buses haven't been torched yet but hopefully they are the thin end of the wedge and we will see an extended service in the future. I even say a bus and minibus with I think Kata to Airport livery the other day- competition is good..

 

As I previously posted that is good to know. The original idea was a one stop per town. Kamala is before the 2nd traffic lights. I assume financial issues are making them more flexible with stops ... and that is a very good thing.

[NamKangMan]

On 11/5/2018 at 5:03 PM, Psimbo said:

Rubbish you can flag them down now. I see people along the main road in Kamala with the app on their phone- they know when the bus is coming and it stops for them. Chinese seem to have cottoned onto it fairly quickly. At the beginning there were few passengers- I have seen some now that are nearly, if not completely, full. The other day there were what appeared to be 3 working girls waiting for one as its a cheap way into Patong.

 

The taxi drivers outside the Big C really have a sulk on now- I love it. I realise that some people are gutted that the buses haven't been torched yet but hopefully they are the thin end of the wedge and we will see an extended service in the future. I even say a bus and minibus with I think Kata to Airport livery the other day- competition is good..

 

 

Sounds like all is now good for proper land transport for the tourists on Phuket.  ????

[grumpyoldman]

12 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

 

Sounds like all is now good for proper land transport for the tourists on Phuket.  ????

???? + Flogging Horse emoji

[NamKangMan]

8 hours ago, grumpyoldman said:

???? + Flogging Horse emoji

 

But it's not like anyone is dying here because of it, or getting skin rashes and breathing difficulties.  ????

[NamKangMan]

On 11/2/2018 at 3:54 PM, LivinginKata said:

 

Yes there is a smart bus, BUT it only stops at one place at each beach town. And payment is by a prepaid card system. Fine for a savvy local, but not for a new tourist. 

 

"And payment is by a prepaid card system. Fine for a savvy local, but not for a new tourist." - the card system stops the driver from pocketing money from the passengers and telling the boss it was a quiet day. 

[LivinginKata]

2 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"And payment is by a prepaid card system. Fine for a savvy local, but not for a new tourist." - the card system stops the driver from pocketing money from the passengers and telling the boss it was a quiet day. 

 

Correct - but nothing to stop a pax from just handing over some baht for a short ride. But I assume the 'smart' bus has CCTV recording the driving station. 

 

On a positive note I often see these buses and they look much busier, one looked quite full. That's a very good sign. 

[schlog]

Do we have a wake of Ping Pong Shows in Patong?

 

After many month i was out last night to play pool at newly moved Tasmanian Pool Lounge. 

 

While playing many older/middle age russian couples and lady group  masses entered and passed the security next door to the lounge.

Judging by the look of the guests i thought it must be a buffet restaurant lol.

 

But i was wrong. Asked the staff and they told me it's the Las Vegas Ping Pong Show. Later had a quick look inside and there were sure more women then man inside and it was full.

Last time when i was in a Ping Pong Gogo, it was Hard Rock in 1993, there were no girl guests inside only crazy guys.

 

Patong is steadily changing if we like it or not.....

 

 

[xylophone]

15 minutes ago, schlog said:

Do we have a wake of Ping Pong Shows in Patong?

They never really went away schlog, although there was talk of the BIB clamping down on them, but of course that never happened because the touts promoting the ping-pong shows have to kick back to these people.

 

Anyway, when the BIB are due to patrol Bangla, word goes out to these touts prior to that happening and they make themselves scarce, with just perhaps the odd one being rounded up and cautioned, which I have seen.

 

Not only that, there are probably more of them around now than I have seen for a long time and a lady I know who has been working that role for a few years now told me that things are getting much harder, not only because there are more of these touts around, but there seem to be fewer people wanting to watch one of these shows.

 

And speaking of Russians, my second visit to the Red Hot bar just three nights ago highlighted the fact that about 50% of the patrons there were Russians, although the place was nowhere near as packed as it had been a week earlier. Full marks to the band for learning a few Russian songs which seemed to please these punters no end!

 

If this carries on, the Russians will outnumber the Chinese, which may not be an altogether bad thing, although I'm not sure that either of them contribute a great deal to the local economy.

 

This ties in with something I have said a while ago, whereby Chinese visitors who are not part of a tour group are finding the cheaper hotels/guesthouses in the Nanai area, and just yesterday as I was weaving in and out of stationery traffic in Soi Banzaan, four sturdy -looking Chinese males decided to make their way in and out of the motorbikes in the road, rather than walking on the two available pavements, so as one neared the front of my motorbike, I drove forward about a metre, catching him on the calf and foot with my tyre, in which event he let out a squeal and turned round and glared at me.

 

My carefully crafted response went something like this, "you firking stupid Chinese bstard, why don't you walk on the firking pavement over there (pointing to it)".

 

This was overheard by a couple of young Thai girls sitting on a bike almost next to me and they turned round and smiled and one nodded her head.

 

The general dislike of the Chinese tourists by the Thai folk here, especially in the likes of Big C, is easy to see and these people are about as popular as a rattlesnake in a lucky-dip as far as the Thais are concerned.

 

And just to make sure that things in Patong are going along about the same as they always have, I bumped into an old acquaintance just a couple of days ago, and I hadn't seen him for a while so I asked how his small guesthouse was going, and his reply was that he didn't have it any more because his wife had left him and taken it, so it was now hers. My next question was to enquire after the status of his minimart-type shop, and unfortunately I got the same reply and felt dreadfully sorry for the poor man.

 

Same same here, big wheel keeps on turning.........wake or not. But not for the better I fear.

 

[NamKangMan]

8 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Correct - but nothing to stop a pax from just handing over some baht for a short ride. But I assume the 'smart' bus has CCTV recording the driving station. 

 

On a positive note I often see these buses and they look much busier, one looked quite full. That's a very good sign. 

 

I have been on one as yet, so I don't know if it has CCTV, but if the driver is stopping for passengers for a few baht cash, how long before the boss, or transport mafia, causes the practice to cease?

[NamKangMan]

On 11/11/2018 at 4:11 PM, schlog said:

Do we have a wake of Ping Pong Shows in Patong?

 

After many month i was out last night to play pool at newly moved Tasmanian Pool Lounge. 

 

While playing many older/middle age russian couples and lady group  masses entered and passed the security next door to the lounge.

Judging by the look of the guests i thought it must be a buffet restaurant lol.

 

But i was wrong. Asked the staff and they told me it's the Las Vegas Ping Pong Show. Later had a quick look inside and there were sure more women then man inside and it was full.

Last time when i was in a Ping Pong Gogo, it was Hard Rock in 1993, there were no girl guests inside only crazy guys.

 

Patong is steadily changing if we like it or not.....

 

 

 

"Patong is steadily changing if we like it or not....." - it's definitely changing / changed.  The thing is, the poor administration of the tourism industry, along with crumbling infrastructure, and the lack of the essential service - transport, as well as corruption at all levels, has caused the change, and unless the Phuket get a full and genuine make over, probably including casinos, the only future I see for Phuket is zero baht Chinese, Russian and Indian tourist. 

 

Phuket - The Jewel in Thailand's Crown has been allowed to be devalued to such a point that the majority of tourist coming here now are cheap package holiday groups. 

 

It would take major changes to lure back the lost western market segment, and I can't see that happening any time soon.

[xylophone]

On a last visit to Bangla before my Aussie mate departed for Brisbane, he remarked that although the place was still vibrant, it wasn’t the same as it had been in previous years he visited, and I think that’s correct.

 

It brought to mind the words of the song from the movie “Dirty Dancing” ……“Well, I had the time of my life and I owe it all to you……………..”. This because in the days of my first visit here in 2004, certainly things were different, naturally, and even for the following few years there were great places which bring back good memories.

 

The original Tiger complex was full of bars with many farang “owners” and was always very lively, from Nicks Katoey bar to Sharkey’s, to Crazy Horse to Smiley Bar, and of course there was always the Tiger disco upstairs which was invariably packed, and despite the fact one couldn't really move in it, there was a small dance area where people managed to gyrate a little, in amongst the crowds and the smoke.

 

Soi Eric and Soi Crocodile were always draw cards for different reasons, but they both had their own pulling power (sorry about the pun).

 

Now Bangla has a completely different look about it with the resurrected Tiger looking very sorry for itself and the new Tiger likewise. Soi Eric's replacement is looking extremely sad with many bars struggling to make ends meet.

 

The new Bar Funk area certainly seems lively and has attracted the younger set and this has been the case with New York which is absolutely packed on most nights, mainly because of the good eight piece band, and Monsoon, which doesn't seem to be faring as well of late.

 

Soi Lion has a band in it which is loud and below-average IMO and so the punters are not anywhere near as prevalent as the others.

 

I sang a few numbers with the band in Red Hot and they are excellent with a lead guitarist probably amongst the best I have ever heard. The place was very full and seems to be a drawcard for the Russians.

 

So there are crowds frequenting some places, however not others and I noticed that a particular bar in Soi Sea Dragon, which was a bit of an icon here, has closed, also a friend has walked away from his bar, handing it over to someone else to run provided they can afford the rent which on current patronage I would doubt.

 

It goes back to what I said before and also to that which my friend noted, inasmuch as the demographics have changed quite markedly and what Bangla and its environs was to others, isn't to this new set. Having said that there must be someone with hopes that the old type of bar monger or barfly will soon be in evidence, because there are many new bars going up in the OTOP area........for what reason, I'm not quite sure?

 

Out and about a bit: the Italian restaurant which has been for sale, halfway up Soi Banzaan seems to have been sold or leased because it has been gutted; ready for a new fit out or owners perhaps?  The "Cheap Charlies" guesthouse also seems to have closed and a couple of long-time empty small guesthouses/apt blocks in Nanai remain empty and looking very worse for wear.

 

Closed and empty roller blind shops continue to abound, whilst someone builds a few new ones close by and the last time I drove along Beach Road past the site of the Sheraton construction, work had come to a halt although that might have begun again now? 

 

Then of course there is the anticipated opening of the Central Department store, which will be in direct competition to those in Jungceylon I would think, however those shops are seeing very little in the way of custom now, so what for the future?

 

I don't think the Chinese ever spent that much in those shops in Jungceylon, probably more so in Big C with their trolley loads of dried seaweed and fruit, so quite who the new Central complex is targeting, I'm not sure.

 

Friends in the real estate business I have spoken to are lamenting the fact that although last month was just okay, this one has proven to be grim, and indeed I stood in the middle of a large display in the second part of Jungceylon, which was promoting condos and apartments and it was bereft of any interested party over the period of a couple of hours.......much the same situation as with the previous one held in the other part of Jungceylon just recently.

 

Change is constant and of course I'm not getting any younger so the halcyon days of some 14 years ago (and I'm sure there are others on here who remember past those times) may be a figment of my imagination, or probably because I was younger and all this was new then??

 

I can understand the changing demographics and the fact that one has to change to make the most of that situation, but what I can't understand is the amount of new building going on when other buildings remain empty or unused. 

 

Perhaps Patong is different to other places and it will never die, and perhaps we will be celebrating the never-ending "wakes" for years to come!

[Lucky mike]

2 hours ago, xylophone said:

On a last visit to Bangla before my Aussie mate departed for Brisbane, he remarked that although the place was still vibrant, it wasn’t the same as it had been in previous years he visited, and I think that’s correct.

 

It brought to mind the words of the song from the movie “Dirty Dancing” ……“Well, I had the time of my life and I owe it all to you……………..”. This because in the days of my first visit here in 2004, certainly things were different, naturally, and even for the following few years there were great places which bring back good memories.

 

The original Tiger complex was full of bars with many farang “owners” and was always very lively, from Nicks Katoey bar to Sharkey’s, to Crazy Horse to Smiley Bar, and of course there was always the Tiger disco upstairs which was invariably packed, and despite the fact one couldn't really move in it, there was a small dance area where people managed to gyrate a little, in amongst the crowds and the smoke.

 

Soi Eric and Soi Crocodile were always draw cards for different reasons, but they both had their own pulling power (sorry about the pun).

 

Now Bangla has a completely different look about it with the resurrected Tiger looking very sorry for itself and the new Tiger likewise. Soi Eric's replacement is looking extremely sad with many bars struggling to make ends meet.

 

The new Bar Funk area certainly seems lively and has attracted the younger set and this has been the case with New York which is absolutely packed on most nights, mainly because of the good eight piece band, and Monsoon, which doesn't seem to be faring as well of late.

 

Soi Lion has a band in it which is loud and below-average IMO and so the punters are not anywhere near as prevalent as the others.

 

I sang a few numbers with the band in Red Hot and they are excellent with a lead guitarist probably amongst the best I have ever heard. The place was very full and seems to be a drawcard for the Russians.

 

So there are crowds frequenting some places, however not others and I noticed that a particular bar in Soi Sea Dragon, which was a bit of an icon here, has closed, also a friend has walked away from his bar, handing it over to someone else to run provided they can afford the rent which on current patronage I would doubt.

 

It goes back to what I said before and also to that which my friend noted, inasmuch as the demographics have changed quite markedly and what Bangla and its environs was to others, isn't to this new set. Having said that there must be someone with hopes that the old type of bar monger or barfly will soon be in evidence, because there are many new bars going up in the OTOP area........for what reason, I'm not quite sure?

 

Out and about a bit: the Italian restaurant which has been for sale, halfway up Soi Banzaan seems to have been sold or leased because it has been gutted; ready for a new fit out or owners perhaps?  The "Cheap Charlies" guesthouse also seems to have closed and a couple of long-time empty small guesthouses/apt blocks in Nanai remain empty and looking very worse for wear.

 

Closed and empty roller blind shops continue to abound, whilst someone builds a few new ones close by and the last time I drove along Beach Road past the site of the Sheraton construction, work had come to a halt although that might have begun again now? 

 

Then of course there is the anticipated opening of the Central Department store, which will be in direct competition to those in Jungceylon I would think, however those shops are seeing very little in the way of custom now, so what for the future?

 

I don't think the Chinese ever spent that much in those shops in Jungceylon, probably more so in Big C with their trolley loads of dried seaweed and fruit, so quite who the new Central complex is targeting, I'm not sure.

 

Friends in the real estate business I have spoken to are lamenting the fact that although last month was just okay, this one has proven to be grim, and indeed I stood in the middle of a large display in the second part of Jungceylon, which was promoting condos and apartments and it was bereft of any interested party over the period of a couple of hours.......much the same situation as with the previous one held in the other part of Jungceylon just recently.

 

Change is constant and of course I'm not getting any younger so the halcyon days of some 14 years ago (and I'm sure there are others on here who remember past those times) may be a figment of my imagination, or probably because I was younger and all this was new then??

 

I can understand the changing demographics and the fact that one has to change to make the most of that situation, but what I can't understand is the amount of new building going on when other buildings remain empty or unused. 

 

Perhaps Patong is different to other places and it will never die, and perhaps we will be celebrating the never-ending "wakes" for years to come!

Many people struggle to embrace change ! Nostalgia is not what it used to be ?

[schlog]

Patong/Bangla lost its charm as party paradise with the Shark disco scandal in ~ 2000.

I had the luck to enjoyed and survived it 9 years till it was not more the same.

Since 2000 it is only a big boring business without the fun and risks of the golden days.

 

As a expat i'm still happy to live on hkt and would not want to live somewhere else for no money.

As a tourist no way i would choose hkt.

 

Like you xylo i also don't get it about the many new buildings.

Why Mandarin Oriental choose hkt? 

Will stay soon in Mandarin O. in KL maybe there i will find the answer lol.

It must be the long run and the bet on casinos one day.

I will watch and see what happen while enjoying life.

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, Lucky mike said:

Many people struggle to embrace change ! Nostalgia is not what it used to be ?

Nice one!

 

Change holds no fears for me however the point I tried to make from my perspective is that it was all new and different then, now it doesn't quite do it for me, but enjoyable all the same, just in a different way...……..aging can do that as well!!!

 

What I can't fully understand is that for many folk I know, we could see the change in demographics as well as work out what effect the GFC was likely to have on the place but others couldn't/didn't?? 

 

An absolutely perfect example would be what happened to Soi Eric...........this was THE SOI at one particular time with nice little tiled bars, lovely girls, smiling faces, many farang "owners", good music and the best toilets in Patong! And of course one of the most frequented Sois, in which you sometimes had difficulty walking because of the crowds.

 

That started to go downhill about the time of the GFC, or just after and the lack of punters was very noticeable, and just kept on getting worse and one bar owner friend of mine decided to end it all by hanging himself because he had run out of money. Another very good friend who owned a bar and probably one of the most popular in the Soi decided he had had enough, after many years of making excellent profits and I remember him commenting to me....."do you know mate, last night I don't know whether we made 40 baht or lost 40 baht, and that has been going on now for some time and I don't see it getting any better, and not only that I'm sick of it".

 

I helped him sell the bar just a couple of months later.

 

Then of course Eric sold up and the new owner decided to make it a brand-new Soi, and much better than Eric ever was (according to him).

 

Well that didn't materialise because the place lay derelict for some time after all of the original bars were knocked down, and the replacement bars which were built were pitiful compared to the original ones, although almost all of them in the same style – – go figure?

 

So now here is a Soi which is nowhere near as frequented as the old one, which was supposed to be better, but is nowhere near as good as the old one, and in which many of the bar owners are not making any money.

 

The point I'm making is that this person should have seen the changes and realised that even before Eric went, the place was changing quite markedly, but what did he do, built a lower quality replica and that is struggling also.

 

That type of mentality seems to be prevalent out there and that's one of the points I was trying to make.

[LivinginKata]

Love your posts xyl. I wonder how many folk know what GFC means. ????

 

I saw the demise in our long term home rental business business about 2009. I call that the 2nd GFC.  Saw it coming in advance. Cancelled a new condo build in Kata. Sent all further profits to Singapore into investments account. 

 

Here in Patong out rental business has stabilised to about 60% occupancy at very best. The investment monthly dividends about make up the 40%. So we are doing just Ok.

 

Chum now in the water for the trolls. We own all our lands. Company or wife owned. No chance we could even sell any property even at fire sale price. Again we lucked out by buying and building at olden time prices, Made our investments back 3 fold over the last 12 + years. My initial woozy plan was to sell and have a golden pension. Forget that now. We are still more than Ok. But those that started a small business in the past 5 years - too bad.     

 

 

 

[NamKangMan]

 

@ XP

 

Your posts are accurate, and informative.  My observations are the same as yours.  I concur with all you have stated in your latest post, and your posts, in general.  

 

@ LIK

 

I appreciate your honesty.  You are probably the only member, who has a business here, that admits to a down turn in customers and / or profits, and backs up your comments with percentages and figures.

 

It's my understanding you "own" the land your properties sit on, otherwise, and I am sure you would agree, and as you have stated, you would have gone broke a long time ago, as many others here have. 

 

This does lead me to a couple of questions, an no, I am not trolling.  How long do you sit on a declining asset/s, and should you chose not to liquidate, is that because you forecast an upswing here, or because there are simply no buyers here, so no point even trying? 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by NamKangMan

[Timbob]

21 hours ago, xylophone said:

It goes back to what I said before and also to that which my friend noted, inasmuch as the demographics have changed quite markedly and what Bangla and its environs was to others, isn't to this new set. Having said that there must be someone with hopes that the old type of bar monger or barfly will soon be in evidence, because there are many new bars going up in the OTOP area........for what reason, I'm not quite sure?

I spotted all those new bars being built in OTOP last week and I too wondered why. 

[LivinginKata]

1 hour ago, NamKangMan said:

<snip>

This does lead me to a couple of questions, an no, I am not trolling.  How long do you sit on a declining asset/s, and should you chose not to liquidate, is that because you forecast an upswing here, or because there are simply no buyers here, so no point even trying? 

 

 

 

Far question - to me our 2 Patong buildings and land are now dead assets. We still make some rental income, but 30-40% down compared with 5 years ago.

 

To be honest we don't even actively advertise our homes other than a FOR RENT sign on the gate.  If we aggressively sought guests we could fill up but we don't want short term, don't offer discounts, don't want pets, kids, or people that look like they cannot pay. In short we are quite selective. 

 

Our properties paid back 3+ fold. They could stand empty for all I care. 

 

I cannot see any upswing. No realist buyers. Have to be fire sale price. Wife (and I) not interested. 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by LivinginKata

[NamKangMan]

4 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Far question - to me our 2 Patong buildings and land are now dead assets. We still make some rental income, but 30-40% down compared with 5 years ago.

 

To be honest we don't even actively advertise our homes other than a FOR RENT sign on the gate.  If we aggressively sought guests we could fill up but we don't want short term, don't offer discounts, don't want pets, kids, or people that look like they cannot pay. In short we are quite selective. 

 

Our properties paid back 3+ fold. They could stand empty for all I care. 

 

I cannot see any upswing. No realist buyers. Have to be fire sale price. Wife (and I) not interested. 

 

 

 

Once again, thanks for your honesty LIK.  You are most likely one of the long standing expats here who bought into the market early to mid 80's, before Phuket boomed, and you made a quid. Good for you.

 

Your reply does lead me to a question, and it is not a troll question, or a bait question.  It's a genuine question, and is probably relevant to other members of your vintage.  That question is, when they start stoking the fire at the local temple for you, what do you envisage will become of your properties? 

 

I have touched on this subject in other threads, in the past.  Mainly, as many old timers say they will be leaving their property to their Thai wife / girlfriend, under the belief the property will provide a lump sum for their spouse, after their demise, but as you say, many will potentially be leaving a "dead asset" behind (no pun intended) and possibly an asset that can not be liquidated, even at a fire sale, thus, leaving a liability, rather than an asset.

 

It's a touchy subject, so feel free to decline to answer, but when I'm chatting with these guys, I ask myself, do they really have any idea what has happened, and is continuing to happen, to the property market here.

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by NamKangMan

[LivinginKata]

5 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

Once again, thanks for your honesty LIK.  You are most likely one of the long standing expats here who bought into the market early to mid 80's, before Phuket boomed, and you made a quid. Good for you.

 

Your reply does lead me to a question, and it is not a troll question, or a bait question.  It's a genuine question, and is probably relevant to other members of your vintage.  That question is, when they start stoking the fire at the local temple for you, what do you envisage will become of your properties? 

 

I have touched on this subject in other threads, in the past.  Mainly, as many old timers say they will be leaving their property to their Thai wife / girlfriend, under the belief the property will provide a lump sum for their spouse, after their demise, but as you say, many will potentially be leaving a "dead asset" behind (no pun intended) and possibly an asset that can not be liquidated, even at a fire sale, thus, leaving a liability, rather than an asset.

 

It's a touchy subject, so feel free to decline to answer, but when I'm chatting with these guys, I ask myself, do they really have any idea what has happened, and is continuing to happen, to the property market here.

 

 

Not at all a touchy question for me ....

 

First off - I did not arrive in Phuket until 1996, and not the eighties.  I was luckey. Caught the tail end of the 'cheaper' times. Wish I had been here in the eighties. Much cheaper.

 

My death has been well thought out. My body will be sent up to my wife's village near Cha-am, I only want a 3 day party, then burned at the local Wat. I know that Wat very well. My ashes will be scattered on the sea at Kata Beach.

 

Unfortunately my wife and I could not produce a baby. I was past my sell by time, or so the doc told me. Wife has no children. When wife die her family can squabble over the spoils. She has willed her share to be administered by her nephew, a really smart guy, was in big group hotel management. Now has many of his own rental homes. He is also now an Immigration Officer in Hua Hin. I like and respect him.

 

In theory my only son in the UK should get my half. But until he get's his ass out here he will miss out. He has a life and young kids back in the UK. He wants to come here and assist in our businesses, but has to wait until kids finish school.  But as back-up we paid for his 3 bedroom house in the UK as his part prepaid half share.

 

Also our Non Thai assets held in Singapore will go to him. I will waive any rights to my Thai "assets".

 

Satisfied NKM    

 

 

 

 

 

[NamKangMan]

1 hour ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Not at all a touchy question for me ....

 

First off - I did not arrive in Phuket until 1996, and not the eighties.  I was luckey. Caught the tail end of the 'cheaper' times. Wish I had been here in the eighties. Much cheaper.

 

My death has been well thought out. My body will be sent up to my wife's village near Cha-am, I only want a 3 day party, then burned at the local Wat. I know that Wat very well. My ashes will be scattered on the sea at Kata Beach.

 

Unfortunately my wife and I could not produce a baby. I was past my sell by time, or so the doc told me. Wife has no children. When wife die her family can squabble over the spoils. She has willed her share to be administered by her nephew, a really smart guy, was in big group hotel management. Now has many of his own rental homes. He is also now an Immigration Officer in Hua Hin. I like and respect him.

 

In theory my only son in the UK should get my half. But until he get's his ass out here he will miss out. He has a life and young kids back in the UK. He wants to come here and assist in our businesses, but has to wait until kids finish school.  But as back-up we paid for his 3 bedroom house in the UK as his part prepaid half share.

 

Also our Non Thai assets held in Singapore will go to him. I will waive any rights to my Thai "assets".

 

Satisfied NKM    

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did not expect such a detailed answer LIK, but I thank you for your candour.

 

I was more questioning whether the "spoils" as your call it, will actually "spoil" anyone, or be a liability to them. 

 

To use your words, you will be leaving some "dead assets" and as you do not predict an upswing here, other assets you have may also end up "dead" as well. (once again, no pun intended) 

 

As you have said, other family members already have property, so it would appear not to be an issue in your case, and that of your wife's, and her family. 

 

I thinking more along the lines of the guys with Thai girls from Issan, whom will most probably wish to sell up and move back to Issan.  I think these widows may not be left with the windfall that many expats think they are leaving, that's if the property can be sold, even at a fire sale.  Speaking to some of the older guys here, many seem to have belief that leaving a property on Phuket to their spouse will provide for them after their demise, and I'm not so sure it will.  

 

It's a subject that I do not discuss with them in depth, as it may offend, but as mentioned, I really do question if they have any idea about the property market here, and the general direction Phuket is heading.

[LivinginKata]

38 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

<snip>

I was more questioning whether the "spoils" as your call it, will actually "spoil" anyone, or be a liability to them. 

 

To use your words, you will be leaving some "dead assets" and as you do not predict an upswing here, other assets you have may also end up "dead" as well. (once again, no pun intended) 

 

As you have said, other family members already have property, so it would appear not to be an issue in your case, and that of your wife's, and her family. 

 

I thinking more along the lines of the guys with Thai girls from Issan, whom will most probably wish to sell up and move back to Issan.  I think these widows may not be left with the windfall that many expats think they are leaving, that's if the property can be sold, even at a fire sale.  Speaking to some of the older guys here, many seem to have belief that leaving a property on Phuket to their spouse will provide for them after their demise, and I'm not so sure it will.  

 

 

"I was more questioning whether the "spoils" as your call it, will actually "spoil" anyone, or be a liability to them. "

 

What liability ? Free property. Can rent or sell at fire sale price. up to them. 

 

"To use your words, you will be leaving some "dead assets" and as you do not predict an upswing here, other assets you have may also end up "dead" as well. (once again, no pun intended) "

 

I will be dead. I don't give a rat's ass. Up to them.

 

"As you have said, other family members already have property, so it would appear not to be an issue in your case, and that of your wife's, and her family."

 

Correct. I again got lucky with a wife, no kids, family all working, land, car, house. No sick buffaloes   

 

"I thinking more along the lines of the guys with Thai girls from Issan, whom will most probably wish to sell up and move back to Issan.  I think these widows may not be left with the windfall that many expats think they are leaving, that's if the property can be sold, even at a fire sale.  Speaking to some of the older guys here, many seem to have belief that leaving a property on Phuket to their spouse will provide for them after their demise, and I'm not so sure it will. "

 

No idea. And I don't give a rat's ass. Up to them. They need to make a better life/death plan.

 

Sorry mods. Loosely within the OT. But we have drifted far and wide. Still a good topic. 

 

Edit - I want to correct that 'got lucky as wife no previous kids' comment. As I could not provide a baby, would have be better for us as a couple for my wife to have had a child or two, would have been a better option from my point of view.

Edited November 16, 2018 by LivinginKata

[xylophone]

38 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

"I was more questioning whether the "spoils" as your call it, will actually "spoil" anyone, or be a liability to them. "

 

What liability ? Free property. Can rent or sell at fire sale price. up to them. 

 

"To use your words, you will be leaving some "dead assets" and as you do not predict an upswing here, other assets you have may also end up "dead" as well. (once again, no pun intended) "

 

I will be dead. I don't give a rat's ass. Up to them.

 

"As you have said, other family members already have property, so it would appear not to be an issue in your case, and that of your wife's, and her family."

 

Correct. I again got lucky with a wife, no kids, family all working, land, car, house. No sick buffaloes   

 

"I thinking more along the lines of the guys with Thai girls from Issan, whom will most probably wish to sell up and move back to Issan.  I think these widows may not be left with the windfall that many expats think they are leaving, that's if the property can be sold, even at a fire sale.  Speaking to some of the older guys here, many seem to have belief that leaving a property on Phuket to their spouse will provide for them after their demise, and I'm not so sure it will. "

 

No idea. And I don't give a rat's ass. Up to them. They need to make a better life/death plan.

 

Sorry mods. Loosely within the OT. But we have drifted far and wide. Still a good topic. 

 

Edit - I want to correct that 'got lucky as wife no previous kids' comment. As I could not provide a baby, would have be better for us as a couple for my wife to have had a child or two, would have been a better option from my point of view.

LiK I think you have given some very honest answers and in far more detail than I possibly would have, so good on you for your candour.

 

I can see exactly where you are coming from and even what one might call a "dead asset" is still worth something to somebody...……….

 

Back on topic hopefully.

[Lashay]

On 11/15/2018 at 5:23 PM, xylophone said:

Nice one!

 

Change holds no fears for me however the point I tried to make from my perspective is that it was all new and different then, now it doesn't quite do it for me, but enjoyable all the same, just in a different way...……..aging can do that as well!!!

 

What I can't fully understand is that for many folk I know, we could see the change in demographics as well as work out what effect the GFC was likely to have on the place but others couldn't/didn't?? 

 

An absolutely perfect example would be what happened to Soi Eric...........this was THE SOI at one particular time with nice little tiled bars, lovely girls, smiling faces, many farang "owners", good music and the best toilets in Patong! And of course one of the most frequented Sois, in which you sometimes had difficulty walking because of the crowds.

 

That started to go downhill about the time of the GFC, or just after and the lack of punters was very noticeable, and just kept on getting worse and one bar owner friend of mine decided to end it all by hanging himself because he had run out of money. Another very good friend who owned a bar and probably one of the most popular in the Soi decided he had had enough, after many years of making excellent profits and I remember him commenting to me....."do you know mate, last night I don't know whether we made 40 baht or lost 40 baht, and that has been going on now for some time and I don't see it getting any better, and not only that I'm sick of it".

 

I helped him sell the bar just a couple of months later.

 

Then of course Eric sold up and the new owner decided to make it a brand-new Soi, and much better than Eric ever was (according to him).

 

Well that didn't materialise because the place lay derelict for some time after all of the original bars were knocked down, and the replacement bars which were built were pitiful compared to the original ones, although almost all of them in the same style – – go figure?

 

So now here is a Soi which is nowhere near as frequented as the old one, which was supposed to be better, but is nowhere near as good as the old one, and in which many of the bar owners are not making any money.

 

The point I'm making is that this person should have seen the changes and realised that even before Eric went, the place was changing quite markedly, but what did he do, built a lower quality replica and that is struggling also.

 

That type of mentality seems to be prevalent out there and that's one of the points I was trying to make.

Main issue with owner of Soi freedom is he is really just good at one thing, getting funding for projects (his family is connected), dont think he has ever ran a day to day business, or at least a sucessful one.

 

What he sold off plan 6 years ago was something of same level that Bar Funk have built in Soi Croc, what he actually built...well we all saw what he built. How he did not get sued by all the bar owners who put 9 years key money down in advance still mystifys me.

 

And as to day to day running, well know you personally enjoyed the band, but simple fact is vast majority do not enjoy an, at best, average band playing at ear splitting levels (even worse is when you have a live band you cannot see, which good 50% of seats in soi cannot, you really notice and are less forgiving of any mistakes, especially if very loud), mixed in with DJ playing hardcore remixes, then bad quality cabaret music for the ladyboy show. And he did that despite everyone, from punters, to tenets, even independant nightlife professional friends telling him otherwise.

 

Seemed he finally listened this low season (only took 5 years) and got rid of them all except the horrible DJs, but honestly to little, far far to late.

 

Bulk of punters had already moved on and found new watering holes (heard he even offered to pay for pole dancers for all the bars, most could still not entice any girls to come work, the girls know better) so all he did was alienate few punters left, so bars down there have had even worse low season than normal.

 

Heard now band and ladyboys are back (never there early enough anymore), so the bars down there will probably return to slow a bleed instead of massive hemorrhage, but think they all are in no doubt they are dieing either way. Only way to 'fix' that soi is for it to change hands, be leveled and rebranded. Dont see that happening until the 9 year contracts finish in 4 more years, and dont see them wanting to leave early, if they kept up payments, in one more year their loans are paid off, more than halving their monthly property costs.

 

And even if that happened tomorrow, still think would fail, days of rows small bars on Bangla Soi's is just over.

 

On a better note, we finally seem to be seeing some innovation. Bar Funk seem to have gone with completely different direction than everyone thought down Soi Croc. Actually what they have built don't even consider it a 'bar' but rather an open air nightclub, so until they actually put a name above it i am calling it 'Club Funk'.

 

Top of the line sound system, smoke machine (bad idea imo) , lots of well trained staff (2 days before opened watched them training day and night the bartenders on drinks and cocktails) but no bar girls and doing very well by looks of things right off the bat. Can see them having a very profitable high season.

 

Now of course everyone is wondering about low season, but way i see it Illuizion still does very well even in low, so dont see why they won't. Actually can see them becoming the pre illuzion stop to be (especially if they put in a VIP section when they take over rest of soi in jan). Only danger i see for them is if they are paying to much in rent.

 

And just oppasite, tiny new bar 'All Stars' (formally 'Peach', Japanese owner killed himself mid low season) is also trying something new, again seems no girls (really not got the space for them), again decent sound system and mainly done as a Hip Hop bar, while not my cup of tea at all, he seems to have a young crowd drinking, standing and dancing most of the night.

 

Even Foleys, while traditional girl bar at heart, have broken with the seedy gogo look or even traditional dark main street bar look and went with clean and bright and it also seems go be paying off.

 

Main point am getting at, is innovation is finally happening and some of it seems to be paying off.

 

But of course not always, for example those white mediterranean look bars at start of Bangla Saint Tropez & Ibiza? Well one gone and would not bet on other (same owner) being there next year. Cocoon does not seem to be doing great either (some of same people involved in Foleys i think) but enough new ideas are working that will hopefully encourage more to try to innovate, because at end of the day, biggest change to Bangla and Patong over last 15 years has been the people coming here.

 

And bulk of those people coming now, especially those who will spend enough partying to pay for the steep Bangla rents don't seem to want/accept dinky, run down bars, with cheap beer, a few girls of flexible morals and an owner with character, they want a lot more.

 

You could say they are the start of the 'quality' tourists Thailand always dreams of and quality demands quality in return.

 

For those who want the old Bangla/Patong, Otop, or perhaps the new bar complex opposite top of Jungceylon that they just started selling off plan will be place to go but one thing I am pretty sure of now, 10 years from now Bangla will not be place for working/pensioner expats, cheap 3-4 times a year sex tourists, long stayers and bar flys (the on a 'strict budget groups') but rather a place for regular tourists (sex and no sex) on their actual holiday, only here relax and to have fun.

 

Actually could be argued this is already the case, just some of those customers and  bars that cater to them wont let go, but those owners are getting old and tired of working more for less (never mind decreased sales, costs of rent, salarys, alcohol keep going up, but menu prices have bearly budged in 10 years) and if they continue seeing innovators do well (especially if getting more people despite higher menu prices) they will join them /get out/ go under.

[Mysterion]

14 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Far question - to me our 2 Patong buildings and land are now dead assets. We still make some rental income, but 30-40% down compared with 5 years ago.

 

To be honest we don't even actively advertise our homes other than a FOR RENT sign on the gate.  If we aggressively sought guests we could fill up but we don't want short term, don't offer discounts, don't want pets, kids, or people that look like they cannot pay. In short we are quite selective. 

 

Our properties paid back 3+ fold. They could stand empty for all I care. 

 

I cannot see any upswing. No realist buyers. Have to be fire sale price. Wife (and I) not interested. 

 

 

No such thing as “dead” property assets in west coast of phuket.

 

It sounds like you are just too lazy to monetize your property further, or deep down you really do believe that there is potential for cap gains in the future.

 

You claim to have already made a substantial net profit(cap gain + income) since you bought it. If one really believes that there is no more possible cap gain upside potential in patong, and one is too lazy to actively attract/manage renters for maximum yield, they should probably sell at market value and be happy with the overall profit, and enjoy the simplification and risk reduction of their smaller asset portfolio.

 

If a lazy person wants to hold older properties, they should consider renovating them and getting a property manager to manage the long/short leases, or tear them down and sell the land. 

 

Bring those assets back to life old sport! 

 

 

 

[pagallim]

5 hours ago, Mysterion said:

No such thing as “dead” property assets in west coast of phuket.

 

It sounds like you are just too lazy to monetize your property further, or deep down you really do believe that there is potential for cap gains in the future.

 

You claim to have already made a substantial net profit(cap gain + income) since you bought it. If one really believes that there is no more possible cap gain upside potential in patong, and one is too lazy to actively attract/manage renters for maximum yield, they should probably sell at market value and be happy with the overall profit, and enjoy the simplification and risk reduction of their smaller asset portfolio.

 

If a lazy person wants to hold older properties, they should consider renovating them and getting a property manager to manage the long/short leases, or tear them down and sell the land. 

 

Bring those assets back to life old sport! 

 

 

 

LiK's properties are well maintained, and his market, for which his tenants (I am not one) I'm sure are grateful, is not pursuing the 'AirBnB'/2 week holiday merry go round.   No one wants to live long term with those kind of neighbours, the reality that the long term expat market has diminished, and having properties that are probably 15-20 years old, are debt free and thus gifts that (albeit not as much in baht but convert that to the present lower western currencies probably near equal) keep on giving. 

[LivinginKata]

1 hour ago, pagallim said:

LiK's properties are well maintained, and his market, for which his tenants (I am not one) I'm sure are grateful, is not pursuing the 'AirBnB'/2 week holiday merry go round.   No one wants to live long term with those kind of neighbours, the reality that the long term expat market has diminished, and having properties that are probably 15-20 years old, are debt free and thus gifts that (albeit not as much in baht but convert that to the present lower western currencies probably near equal) keep on giving. 

 

Well said pag ... and thank you.

 

It's not so much laziness ... more old age. Also no need to make more & even more money.

 

Considered hiring am aggressive manager but we just don't make enough profit to pay the higher salary of a qualified manager. Plus any staff have to be closely monitored.