Patong - The Wake

[NamKangMan]

 

This clip sums up what officials have been doing here.

 

 

 

When are you going to pull on the life jacket and get on a life boat, LIK? 

 

There must be only a couple of business owners left posting on the Phuket TV forum.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2017 by NamKangMan

[Timbob]

On 11/2/2017 at 11:26 AM, xylophone said:

Jumping around a bit here and the roadworks (replacing/installing new drains) at the junction of Sois Banzaan and Nanai have been held up for a while now whilst they try and sort out the problems, causing much traffic chaos around the 5 PM mark when every man and his dog decide to try and get through the mess which has been created, as it seems they really don't know what they're doing!

I have to ride past this nearly every day. Yesterday, I was behind a really dopey car driver coming up Soi Banzaan heading towards the troublesome junction. They nearly clipped a parked motorbike. Then on turning right on Nanai they clipped an oil drum (I think it was empty), which bounced into the 10 foot hole in the ground. I stayed well back. It seems even the drivers around here don't know what they are doing!   

[Timbob]

On 11/3/2017 at 3:10 PM, LivinginKata said:

 

Exactly correct. Other than the GBP already took a 10+%  (near 15%) hit You saying it will get worse. 43 Baht to GBP today, and that's really bad.

 

I cry a little inside every time I check the rate on XE.com. 

 

I remember my first trip to Thailand in 2002 when it was 72 baht to the pound.

 

The crappy exchange rate has definitely made living here more costly for me. But overall it's still a very cheap place for UK tourists. 

[LivinginKata]

3 minutes ago, Timbob said:

I cry a little inside every time I check the rate on XE.com. 

 

I remember my first trip to Thailand in 2002 when it was 72 baht to the pound.

 

The crappy exchange rate has definitely made living here more costly for me. But overall it's still a very cheap place for UK tourists. 

 

Exchange rates go up and down. I arrive here in Phuket in 1996 and I got 36 baht to the GBP. I transfered quite a lump of money to set myself up here, bought a 30 year lease home, and a car. Within a few months I saw the rate rising quickly month by month to an ultimate high of 90 baht to the GBP.

 

Therefore I have little sympathy for those bemoaning todays low rates as I theoretically  lost on  my original transfer. But on the bright side my Thai wife talked me into buying land and building rental units. Made up all my losses back by  buying cheap pounds with the business profits we made after Brexit. What goes around comes around .

 

 

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, Timbob said:

I have to ride past this nearly every day. Yesterday, I was behind a really dopey car driver coming up Soi Banzaan heading towards the troublesome junction. They nearly clipped a parked motorbike. Then on turning right on Nanai they clipped an oil drum (I think it was empty), which bounced into the 10 foot hole in the ground. I stayed well back. It seems even the drivers around here don't know what they are doing!   

Well at least the roadworks have managed to move  2 meters in about a month, as it seemed to be stalled.......and if you go by it again look at the height of the last drain in Banzaan as it juts into Nanai and ask yourself, "how is that going to work?".

[madmax2]

On 11/3/2017 at 11:27 PM, NamKangMan said:

 

This clip sums up what officials have been doing here.

 

 

 

When are you going to pull on the life jacket and get on a life boat, LIK? 

 

There must be only a couple of business owners left posting on the Phuket TV forum.

 

 

I do not think LIK has anything to worry about if he arrived here in 1996 and invested in property

Even if they have a bank mortgage and minimum payments they would come out way in front from capital gains on their properties providing the buildings are well maintained and of sound construction, other wise the land is only worth market value less the cost of demolishing the buildings and removing the rubble

 

Its the Russians who have invested in property around us about 5 years ago who have received a shock when trying to sell, only getting about half what they paid if they want to sell if they are lucky 

[xylophone]

44 minutes ago, madmax2 said:

Its the Russians who have invested in property around us about 5 years ago who have received a shock when trying to sell, only getting about half what they paid if they want to sell if they are lucky 

Same with some folks I know who bought 7 or 8 years ago and who took big losses in order to quit their properties.

 

Still some of them hanging out for their original asking prices even though one or two around them going for much less.

[NamKangMan]

3 hours ago, madmax2 said:

I do not think LIK has anything to worry about if he arrived here in 1996 and invested in property

Even if they have a bank mortgage and minimum payments they would come out way in front from capital gains on their properties providing the buildings are well maintained and of sound construction, other wise the land is only worth market value less the cost of demolishing the buildings and removing the rubble

 

Its the Russians who have invested in property around us about 5 years ago who have received a shock when trying to sell, only getting about half what they paid if they want to sell if they are lucky 

 

Whilst I agree that those who bought into the market here, so long ago, should not take a loss, the "capital gain" you are talking about can only be realized upon sale, and there is no one buying here now.  Even properties at "fire sale" prices are not moving. 

 

Sadly, it appears Phuket has become an undesirable destination for westerners to holiday and /or retire to.   

 

That leaves many here with a property that attracts fees and charges, but does not attract a buyer or a tenant, therefore, the property is making a loss, whilst it is also decreasing in value, attracting further losses if it can ever be sold. 

[schlog]

40 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

Whilst I agree that those who bought into the market here, so long ago, should not take a loss, the "capital gain" you are talking about can only be realized upon sale, and there is no one buying here now.  Even properties at "fire sale" prices are not moving. 

 

Sadly, it appears Phuket has become an undesirable destination for westerners to holiday and /or retire to.   

 

That leaves many here with a property that attracts fees and charges, but does not attract a buyer or a tenant, therefore, the property is making a loss, whilst it is also decreasing in value, attracting further losses if it can ever be sold. 

A partly sale or monthly rental income is also a capital gain for me and i think also for LIK.

 

Only 1 of my buying deals. Bought in 1997 5 rai for 60k/rai in Maikhao. Used 1 for own house. Sold in 2015 1 rai for 1.5 mio to a friend.

Enough capital gain and 3 rais left which i could sell easy tomorrow.

 

For land you will find always buyers. For houses also when you call a realistic price. Condos i don't buy more since sold last one in 1999.

[LivinginKata]

48 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

Whilst I agree that those who bought into the market here, so long ago, should not take a loss, the "capital gain" you are talking about can only be realized upon sale, and there is no one buying here now.  Even properties at "fire sale" prices are not moving. 

 

Sadly, it appears Phuket has become an undesirable destination for westerners to holiday and /or retire to.   

 

That leaves many here with a property that attracts fees and charges, but does not attract a buyer or a tenant, therefore, the property is making a loss, whilst it is also decreasing in value, attracting further losses if it can ever be sold. 

 

I agree that houses are not selling.  But bare land in a desired location will sell. My wife has 2 prime sea view land spots in Kata that she could sell almost instantly ( so long as no silly high price) but she likes the idea of having trees and jungle greenery remain in our neighbour hood.

 

As it happens we have picked up a number of long term (1 year) tenants these post 2 months. Occupancy looking good. Even picking up a couple in Kata, with our usual seasonal friends returning this month.

 

We can hang out at low occupancy as we have no debt, no rent outlays, no charges other than cable TV and internet monthly fees that can be cancelled anytime. We have a strong well thought out long term business model and we just fine ... thank you very much.

 

 

[madmax2]

Saw a Advertisement only last week for  condos bought of plan by a company called Fazwaz or something similar, 10% PA guaranteed return for 20 years, a load of B/S and they get away with their false advertising here all the time 

[LivinginKata]

2 minutes ago, madmax2 said:

Saw a Advertisement only last week for  condos bought of plan by a company called Fazwaz or something similar, 10% PA guaranteed return for 20 years, a load of B/S and they get away with their false advertising here all the time 

 

Many 'outfits' promise the same return on investment. Anyone with a brain can see that's not possible in today's economic climate. And how much of that 10% goes to management and other fees.

[NamKangMan]

@ LIk and schlog

 

A few years ago, I considered buying a property here. 

 

I did not want the grief of dealing with a designer and construction company, so I did not consider buying land. 

 

Only a fool would by off the plan here, so I didn't consider an off the plan purchase either.

 

I looked into buying a house, apartment or condo. 

 

Of course, due to the various "issues" here that I have posted about previously, I did not buy, and will not buy.  Out of interest, I keep an eye on property here, as I have a small portfolio of property in western countries, and real estate is of interest to me.  That said, I know little about how well land is performing in the Phuket property market. 

 

So, I accept your land may be easier to move, but my post was more directed towards existing structures, and I meant nothing personal in the post to you LIK.  Your property was mentioned by another member, so I used it as an example. 

 

The word "capital gain" was used by the other member, and I stand by my comment that a capital gain is realized upon sale.  Rental income is a revenue stream.  Nothing wrong with it, but technically, it's not a capital gain on an asset. 

 

As I mentioned in my previous post, those who bought into the Phuket market long ago are in a far better position than those who bought into the market here in recent years.  

 

LIK, you can turn everything off, but just because a property isn't costing you money, doesn't mean it's making you money.  It's very possible, that as you sit on a property with everything turned off, you can lose money, if the property market is in a downturn. 

 

That said, I have a question to you both.  If you were to put your houses / apartments / condo's on the market, how easily do you think they would sell, in the current economy climate?  

 

Like I said, any capital gain / profit is only realized upon sale, and as LIK said, "I agree that houses are not selling."  I would suggest, in the current climate, very few are making a capital gain / profit here, with some even taking losses.

 

 

[Mysterion]

6 hours ago, xylophone said:

Same with some folks I know who bought 7 or 8 years ago and who took big losses in order to quit their properties.

 

Still some of them hanging out for their original asking prices even though one or two around them going for much less.

As Phuket property is exposed to international buyers/sellers, it will almost always offer great buy/sell opportunities for somebody in the world, depending on the currency that one is using at the time of converting into the baht for the property purchase.

 

For instance, russians and brits who invested in Thailand property 5 or 10 years ago can actually sell the property at a loss in baht terms, but still make good or even huge profits when the sale price is converted back to their home currency of pounds or rubles.  

 

Now is a fairly good time for USA buyers as the dollar has been strong against the baht.

 

The charts below show the huge potential baht currency profits made by the brits and russians between the last 5 and 10 years.

 

Many brit sellers have done well, and Russians sellers could have doubled their money just based on the currency movements.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Mysterion

[NamKangMan]

52 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

I accept the science behind your figures, but have you considered that when the foreign currencies are down, so are the amount of buyers in the market here? 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2017 by NamKangMan

[madmax2]

56 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

As Phuket property is exposed to international buyers/sellers, it will almost always offer great buy/sell opportunities for somebody in the world, depending on the currency that one is using at the time of converting into the baht for the property purchase.

 

For instance, russians and brits who invested in Thailand property 5 or 10 years ago can actually sell the property at a loss in baht terms, but still make good or even huge profits when the sale price is converted back to their home currency of pounds or rubles.  

 

Now is a fairly good time for USA buyers as the dollar has been strong against the baht.

 

The charts below show the huge potential baht currency profits made by the brits and russians between the last 5 and 10 years.

 

Many brit sellers have done well, and Russians sellers could have doubled their money just based on the currency movements.

You sound like someone involved in selling real estate hoping to find some buyers, best of luck

[xylophone]

57 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

For instance, russians and brits who invested in Thailand property 5 or 10 years ago can actually sell the property at a loss in baht terms, but still make good or even huge profits when the sale price is converted back to their home currency of pounds or rubles

If indeed that is what they want to do with it.............but if they need the money here, they take a big hit.

[DrDave]

3 hours ago, madmax2 said:

Saw a Advertisement only last week for  condos bought of plan by a company called Fazwaz or something similar, 10% PA guaranteed return for 20 years, a load of B/S and they get away with their false advertising here all the time 

Fazwaz is an online real estate brokerage.  It's the project's developers that are offering the ridiculous annual return guarantees which as others have mentioned, aren't worth the paper they're written on.

[xylophone]

10 minutes ago, DrDave said:

Fazwaz is an online real estate brokerage.  It's the project's developers that are offering the ridiculous annual return guarantees which as others have mentioned, aren't worth the paper they're written on.

Possibly the same one as mentioned before..........Patong Bay Hill Resort????, which had a similar offer on the go, so I will repeat DrDave; "the ridiculous annual return guarantees which as others have mentioned aren't worth the paper they're written on" as this seems to be the general consensus of opinion from folks who have lived here a while!

[LivinginKata]

2 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

LIK, you can turn everything off, but just because a property isn't costing you money, doesn't mean it's making you money.  It's very possible, that as you sit on a property with everything turned off, you can lose money, if the property market is in a downturn. 

 

That said, I have a question to you both.  If you were to put your houses / apartments / condo's on the market, how easily do you think they would sell, in the current economy climate?  

 

 

I guess I don't think like a bean counter. All I wanted was my initial capital cost back just to recover what I spent. After that it was all gravy. Given how long ago we built I can tell you we got our money back more than 3 times in Patong. Kata a bit tougher as it was a really expensive land buy (3 plots) and we only built on one. But in 11 years we got our money back and we lived free. Plus we have 2 very desirable plots that would more than cover our total initial outlay if we wanted to sell.

 

Years ago I assumed we would sell out in my golden years and really cash in.  Clearly that idea went out of the window 5 years ago.  Also no way my wife would actual hand over her Chanote titles. Just telling the truth. Just 2 years ago I had a serious offer for one of our buildings of 12 full scale homes (21 bedrooms) and the price was fair. Thought about it, no idea what we would do with that much money, prefered the regular monthly rental income and something to do each day. We passed on the offer. Often when I service customer issues I prefer not to think about that offer. 

 

Just last week my wife came to me telling me a 'new business' group wanted to lease an entire building (14 homes = 20 bedrooms) for 3 years. That appeals to her as she keeps the land and building. I never took the the enquiry seriously as no hard money was discussed. Looked like just a property management outfit fronting for volume charter tours. My wife was dreaming of major key money/up front 3 year payment. They were just full of promises of a small up front payment - good bye  ... see you. 

 

In summary ... a free hold owner can always sell .... at fire sale prices.  We don't need too sell that badly and we are still making a good income.  

  

 

 

Edited November 6, 2017 by LivinginKata

[Mysterion]

2 hours ago, madmax2 said:

You sound like someone involved in selling real estate hoping to find some buyers, best of luck

Lol!

 

Just trying to add some value to a

topic of interest to me. I am not an agent or affiliated with any agencies.

 

It is very inportant to remember to consider the FX exposure of the buyer/seller in any valuation of thailand real estate. Don’t assume people have lost money just because the sale price is below original price, and visa versa.

 

I would guess that a huge chunk, if not the majority, of foreigners who own thailand property are residing overseas and are therefore exposed to the ups and downs of the baht.

 

I am personally aware of a number of brit based and russian based owner/investors who have sold or currently selling exisiting homes below “market price” becasue they have made significant profits on the fx.

 

[Mysterion]

2 hours ago, xylophone said:

If indeed that is what they want to do with it.............but if they need the money here, they take a big hit.

Indeed, each deal is different.

 

Need to look at each persons fx exposure, any rental yield they are getting, price movements, the timeline required to exit the investment etc.

 

Generalizing is not possible in international markets like phuket, pattaya, and bangkok.

[Mysterion]

3 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

I accept the science behind your figures, but have you considered that when the foreign currencies are down, so are the amount of buyers in the market here? 

 

 

Yes that is a valid observation.

 

However, the global fx market is constantly on the move and there are dozens of currencies moving in different directions at different times.

 

There is usually one or more major currency that is tanking or rallying vs the baht at any one time. Thats why the trend of nationalities of the buyers and sellers are often changing:

 

As mentioned previously, the USD is currently relatively strong vs baht. The chinese yuan has recently appreciated 10% vs baht as well. Therefore you may not be surprised to see more amaricans and chinese looking to buy property in thailand now, while the russians and brits are also happy to sell to them.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2017 by Mysterion

[NamKangMan]

11 hours ago, Mysterion said:

Yes that is a valid observation.

 

However, the global fx market is constantly on the move and there are dozens of currencies moving in different directions at different times.

 

There is usually one or more major currency that is tanking or rallying vs the baht at any one time. Thats why the trend of nationalities of the buyers and sellers are often changing:

 

As mentioned previously, the USD is currently relatively strong vs baht. The chinese yuan has recently appreciated 10% vs baht as well. Therefore you may not be surprised to see more amaricans and chinese looking to buy property in thailand now, while the russians and brits are also happy to sell to them.

 

 

 

If there are a few Chinese and American buyers in the market here, this is a reminder of the choice they have when choosing, and the competition the sellers have for the sale of their property.

 

Siam Real Estate is one of the bigger online agents.

 

https://www.siamrealestate.com/

 

Just on that one website. for Phuket, as of this morning:

 

Houses / Villas:                 525 properties for sale.

 

Condos / Apartments:     298 properties for sale.

 

Villas / Condos:                 823 properties for sale.

 

Land:                                  135 plots for sale.

 

Total properties for sale:   1781.

 

That's just the properties for sale on one website, for Phuket.

 

I would think anyone wishing to sell, who actually found a buyer, with so much property on the market here, would be like finding a needle in hay stack, or, they would have to price their property considerably cheaper than the competition, as to make it stand out as a distressed sale. 

 

So, a seller would have to be, either extremely lucky, or, be extremely distressed, to sell their property on Phuket. 

[xylophone]

13 hours ago, Mysterion said:

Indeed, each deal is different.

 

Need to look at each persons fx exposure, any rental yield they are getting, price movements, the timeline required to exit the investment etc.

 

Generalizing is not possible in international markets like phuket, pattaya, and bangkok.

You can look at it anyway you want, however someone who purchased the property here eight years ago, for example, and lived in it, but now needed to sell and wanted the money to use here, is sh1t out of luck, big time!

 

 

 

 

[phuketrichard]

Quote

I would guess that a huge chunk, if not the majority, of foreigners who own thailand property are residing overseas and are therefore exposed to the ups and downs of the baht.

disagree, makes no sense to do this less ur wife is living in the house./condo while u go work elsewhere

i'd say 85% of expat owners, live in the places they own

 

Quote

I would think anyone wishing to sell, who actually found a buyer, with so much property on the market here,

agree and especially with Condo's, there are so many new ones coming on the market daily,  Even here in Kamala, there are hundreds of new condos available or soon to be anywhere from 10%-80 % completed.

[KarenBravo]

A fundamental rule that was forgotten, has now been in effect for a number of years.

The underlying value of a house, or villa, is the amount of land it's sitting on.

 

No longer can you ask some outrageous price for a marble-filled palace on 400sqm of land.

[NamKangMan]

2 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

A fundamental rule that was forgotten, has now been in effect for a number of years.

The underlying value of a house, or villa, is the amount of land it's sitting on.

 

No longer can you ask some outrageous price for a marble-filled palace on 400sqm of land.

 

And if that parcel of land is surrounded by crumbling infrastructure, flooding, traffic chaos, noise and air pollution, rising crime, uncontrolled corruption, and the highest prices in South East Asia, Singapore aside - what have you got to sell????

[KarenBravo]

1 hour ago, NamKangMan said:

 

And if that parcel of land is surrounded by crumbling infrastructure, flooding, traffic chaos, noise and air pollution, rising crime, uncontrolled corruption, and the highest prices in South East Asia, Singapore aside - what have you got to sell????

Can trust you to turn a negative into a disaster zone. Chicken Little could take lessons......

[NamKangMan]

4 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

Can trust you to turn a negative into a disaster zone. Chicken Little could take lessons......

 

Which part of my post do you consider to be untrue, KB????