When retaining walls don't ...

[Crossy]

The rain, flooding and a tree root system have taken their toll on our retaining wall.

 

First we knew was when a small crack appeared, didn't worry, small crack. Within a couple of days it became a big crack and a great chunk of the garden vanished into the khlong.

 

 

 

Had the boys dig out to survey the damage, not good.

 

 

Repair is going to be fun.

 

 

[carlyai]

No good mate. Hope the repairs go well.

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[Daffy D]

The result of your free range chickens and guard geese escape tunnel

[grollies]

Butress wall required. Hard luck there @Crossy.

[weegee]

I'm busy this month Crossy,....sorry...lol.

[kannot]

its  just  a  ventilation  point..............

[eyecatcher]

wow thats a bit dramatic....

 

so;  your plan, which direction are you leaning towards? 

[r136dg]

Looks like ya built up substantially from the neighbors. Bummer Crossy but good luck to quick & not to painful recovery! 

[VocalNeal]

Mate of mine had similar in Pattaya the whole corner of his wall disappeared into the klong. heavy rain the water started to pool in the corner. It found away out and then...

 

Looks like yours was well made above grade but not so much below grade.

[whatawonderfulday]

Well unfortunately correctly designed foundations based upon a soil analysis are not strong points for house builders in Thailand.

[dotpoom]

Same happened me about 9 weeks ago in Bang Saray, lost some banana trees and flowers and a small bank of land. I decided to rebuild all the retaining walls. Ordered 23 ton of stone (football size) from the quarry, they delivered 26 ton (I wasn't present day of delivery, wife was). They tipped the stones onto the Soi where my gate is (cul-de-sac) and made a quick getaway. They didn't deliver stones...they delivered boulders that needed a crane just to lift one ( or the incredible hulk).They cracked tje neighbour's wall in the process.

I sent them solicitors letters etc.,they just more or less laughed in our face, told us to do what we liked. Eventually they said they would return our money if we bring back the stones.

It would cost me an arm and a leg to do that.

 I advertised everywhere where to get free stones. The Navy took 3 loads with a lorry and crane, I fell out with the wife over the whole business and am staying in Pattaya. I paid her son to help with what needs to be done.  As far as I know now, the walls are near completion from the smaller stones we managed to dig out of the load

    Still another lorry load in the Soi, I think.

    So ......don't mention "retaining wall" please....555. 

I gotta laugh or pull my hair out...but I can't do that...nature already took care of that.

 

[Nokawou]

I just had a wall build like that, looks like I need to make sure there is sufficient drainage so the water does not pool against the wall. Thanks for the warning Crossy, hope you get it fixed quickly.

[grollies]

.....butress wall

 

 

 

 

[grollies]

59 minutes ago, dotpoom said:

Same happened me about 9 weeks ago in Bang Saray, lost some banana trees and flowers and a small bank of land. I decided to rebuild all the retaining walls. Ordered 23 ton of stone (football size) from the quarry, they delivered 26 ton (I wasn't present day of delivery, wife was). They tipped the stones onto the Soi where my gate is (cul-de-sac) and made a quick getaway. They didn't deliver stones...they delivered boulders that needed a crane just to lift one ( or the incredible hulk).They cracked tje neighbour's wall in the process.

I sent them solicitors letters etc.,they just more or less laughed in our face, told us to do what we liked. Eventually they said they would return our money if we bring back the stones.

It would cost me an arm and a leg to do that.

 I advertised everywhere where to get free stones. The Navy took 3 loads with a lorry and crane, I fell out with the wife over the whole business and am staying in Pattaya. I paid her son to help with what needs to be done.  As far as I know now, the walls are near completion from the smaller stones we managed to dig out of the load

    Still another lorry load in the Soi, I think.

    So ......don't mention "retaining wall" please....555. 

I gotta laugh or pull my hair out...but I can't do that...nature already took care of that.

 

Got any left?

[lamecn]

To keep the wall standing on soft ground, you'd need piling down to 12-18 m depending on  the soil. Is your garden and outdoor kitchen sinking as well?

[grollies]

16 minutes ago, lamecn said:

To keep the wall standing on soft ground, you'd need piling down to 12-18 m depending on  the soil. Is your garden and outdoor kitchen sinking as well?

Xxxx me, my borehole is only 18m deep!

[heybuz]

what you have is a fence its not meant for retaining anything. no proper footings, no reo of any consequence, no weep holes or drainage to allow water to exit . water is the biggest culprit in retaining wall failure. footings should be at least 300 mm thick the width at least 3 times the width of the wall, it should be designed so the wall is built on the outer edge of the footing leaving what is called a foot under the earth that it has to retain thus creating a counter balance.(50 yrs in construction]

[Crossy]

Thanks for all the comments, yes I know this isn't a retaining wall in the strictest sense, but it is on a domestic plot with domestic budgets and it's 220m long.

 

This construction seems to be de-rigeur for "retaining" walls here, I see many which have failed in a similar manner.

The section which failed is one of the earlier bits we had done, small H piles pushed in with a backhoe, with concrete planks slid into the slots. The later sections have 50% bigger piles which were driven with the same pile-driver used for the house, they don't seem to be going anywhere.

Proper fix, take it out and get new piles driven = $$$ which I don't have right now.

We'll dig out more next weekend and get some support where that one pile has failed completely. But yes, at least for now it's going to be a temporary bodge. Won't pile up fill on our side, we can have a stylish dell.

 

And yes, there will be weep holes (I have some spare 2" PVC pipe that we can embed). The existing planks do actually have holes (I used one to run the water intake to the irrigation system).

Main purpose will be to keep our creatures in and other creatures out.

[Crossy]

15 hours ago, lamecn said:

To keep the wall standing on soft ground, you'd need piling down to 12-18 m depending on  the soil. Is your garden and outdoor kitchen sinking as well?

 

The house etc. are well away from the wall in question so no effects and the garden has only moved in the affected area although it has all settled in the 5 years since the last of the fill was placed.

 

The house is on 16m driven piles and is going nowhere, the newer part of the wall has 8m driven piles, they haven't moved (yet).

 

Our outbuildings (Chicken Palace, sheds) are 150mm slab foundations on short hand-driven piles, lightweight (steel and block) construction, hopefully not going to move (I doubt the chooks would mind anyway).

 

[whatawonderfulday]

15 hours ago, grollies said:

.....butress wall

 

 

 

 

Of no use at all if the foundations are not designed and constructed properly to suit the soil conditions. 

[Crossy]

6 minutes ago, whatawonderfulday said:

... designed and constructed properly ...

 

In Thailand, on a domestic property?

 

I agree 100% with what all the construction chaps are saying, sadly our contractors (and budget) don't. Thai way or no way

 

Looking at the failed section the tie-backs to the ground beam have done their job and the beam has only moved slightly, the piles have burst outwards evidently due to wet fill just pushing them too far (there was a tree growing in just the wrong place outside the wall too).

 

My man is suggesting digging out to original (outside) ground level and making a solid beam between the remaining intact piles at that level, he will hand-drive new piles to support said beam. Then cast in-place a new column to replace the failed pile and support the existing ground beam. In-fill the gaps with a 150mm poured concrete wall.

 

Not sure if we can save the cracked and displaced wall.

[grollies]

24 minutes ago, whatawonderfulday said:

Of no use at all if the foundations are not designed and constructed properly to suit the soil conditions. 

Well, I have to say the foundations aren't piled 18m deep.

 

Foundation 300 x 500 in clay. Retains about 3ft difference in levels.

 

Good enough for you?

[grollies]

3 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

In Thailand, on a domestic property?

This is the DIY forum, no?

 

I'd have thought a uk expat with a modicum of understanding and Google could design a suitable wall and instruct a Thai builder. Walls over here are a joke.

 

3 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

I agree 100% with what all the construction chaps are saying, sadly our contractors (and budget) don't. Thai way or no way

 

Looking at the failed section the tie-backs to the ground beam have done their job and the beam has only moved slightly, the piles have burst outwards evidently due to wet fill just pushing them too far (there was a tree growing in just the wrong place outside the wall too).

 

My man is suggesting digging out to original (outside) ground level and making a solid beam between the remaining intact piles at that level, he will hand-drive new piles to support said beam. Then cast in-place a new column to replace the failed pile and support the existing ground beam. In-fill the gaps with a 150mm poured concrete wall.

 

Not sure if we can save the cracked and displaced wall.

There should also be a French drain around the high side to run water away from the footings. 

 

The top coping should have a drip channel underneath to keep rain off the wall surface.

 

But you won't find much of that over here.

 

Google wall building for some decent retaining wall guides.

[whatawonderfulday]

45 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

The house etc. are well away from the wall in question so no effects and the garden has only moved in the affected area although it has all settled in the 5 years since the last of the fill was placed.

 

The house is on 16m driven piles and is going nowhere, the newer part of the wall has 8m driven piles, they haven't moved (yet).

 

Our outbuildings (Chicken Palace, sheds) are 150mm slab foundations on short hand-driven piles, lightweight (steel and block) construction, hopefully not going to move (I doubt the chooks would mind anyway).

 

Whilst most probably your house foundations are sound, please be aware that house builders tend to put piles under where the main support columns are and are usually single pile based on tradition , rather than design the piles correctly to support the column above.  That does not mean it is correct and the results can be seen in over 50% of the houses in Thailand by cracking caused by inadequate piling caused by differential  pile settlement or  just an ineffective pile cap  as pile grouping and spacing must be designed to take the designed axial imposed loads. 

Edited June 30, 2017 by whatawonderfulday

[Crossy]

7 minutes ago, whatawonderfulday said:

Whilst most probably your house foundations are sound, please be aware that house builders tend to put piles under where the main support columns are and are usually single pile based on tradition.  That does not mean it is correct and the results can be seen in over 50% of the houses in Thailand by cracking caused by inadequate piling caused by differential  pile settlement or  just an ineffective pile cap  as pile grouping and spacing must be designed to take the designed axial imposed loads. 

 

I'm 100% (ok 99.9%) certain our house foundations are secure, the overall design came from the government free plans. Most of the piling positions have 2 or 4 piles and the pile caps are massive. The original plans are here http://www.dpt.go.th/download/PW/house_model/framehome.html we build a meld of No27 and No30.

 

[whatawonderfulday]

3 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

I'm 100% (ok 99.9%) certain our house foundations are secure, the overall design came from the government free plans. Most of the piling positions have 2 or 4 piles and the pile caps are massive. The original plans are here http://www.dpt.go.th/download/PW/house_model/framehome.html we build a meld of No27 and No30.

 

Excellent Crossy and good to hear you went the proper route.  Irrespective of my other criticisms Thai civil engineers and architects are some of the best in the world.  The problem is general house builders here do not employ them and the average Thai does not understand sufficiently to insist that a builder should use them.

[Crossy]

Our original blow-by-blow construction thread is here:-

 

 

[carlyai]

I'm glad your driveway didn't sink. Talking about driveways and crusher dust (and not hijacking the thread), did you just lay down the crushed dust or compact it? If you threw in some grass seeds, would they eventually cover the crushed dust foundations? Magic stuff, just finishing around the pool and starting on the drive way. 10 barrow loads a day. Sorry for this distraction.

 

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[Crossy]

2 minutes ago, carlyai said:

I'm glad your driveway didn't sink. Talking about driveways and crusher dust (and not hijacking the thread), did you just lay down the crushed dust or compact it? If you threw in some grass seeds, would they eventually cover the crushed dust foundations? Magic stuff, just finishing around the pool and starting on the drive way. 10 barrow loads a day. Sorry for this distraction.

 

We just laid the dust and drove over it a few times, traffic has compacted it nicely, grass growing up the middle, very rustic.

 

[Alantct]

To keep the wall standing on soft ground, you'd need piling down to 12-18 m depending on  the soil. Is your garden and outdoor kitchen sinking as well?

12-18 meters?
What are u building the wall on?
A river?


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