Sixty high-rise buildings fail safety tests after London fire - UK government

[webfact]

Sixty high-rise buildings fail safety tests after London fire - UK government

 

A fire engine is parked outside the Burnham Tower residential block, as residents were evacuated as a precautionary measure following concerns over the type of cladding used on the outside of the buildings on the Chalcots Estate in north London, Britain, June 24, 2017. REUTERS/Hannah McKay/Files

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Sixty high-rise buildings have failed safety tests carried out after a fire killed at least 79 people in London earlier this month, the British government said on Sunday.

 

British officials are conducting tests on some 600 high-rise buildings across England after fire ravaged the Grenfell tower block in west London on June 14, prompting public anger over the Conservative government's budget cuts.

 

On Friday some 4,000 residents were forced to evacuate their homes in north London after the fire brigade ruled that their blocks were unsafe.

 

The Department for Communities said in a statement that 60 high rise buildings across 25 local authority areas had now failed the tests.

 

(Reporting by Elizabeth Piper; Editing by Gareth Jones)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-06-26

[chrisinth]

It always seems to be the same that it takes a tragic event before the rules are applied correctly.

 

How can that be in this day and age, especially in a so called 1st world country? We are put through a wringer for the smallest error we make in this paper/form orientated world and yet the ones that make the rules don't apply them in any practical sense.

 

Shame on you.

[chrisinth]

36 minutes ago, webfact said:

On Friday some 4,000 residents were forced to evacuate their homes in north London after the fire brigade ruled that their blocks were unsafe.

 

Where were these people relocated to from their own homes?

 

Edit: Just read the other thread on this. Pure and absolute cover your a s s/knee jerk reactions and uncalled for suffering for 4,000 residents IMO.

 

Too much too late.....................

Edited June 26, 2017 by chrisinth

[darksidedog]

While on the one hand, it is good to see urgent, if somewhat late action, to make peoples houses safer, one hopes a little common sense will prevail.

Forcing people to evacuate their home is a heavy thing to do. And given the numbers of buildings now involved, impractical too. Offering alternative accommodation to those who would like it, rather than everyone, while work is happening would be far more sensible.

[Stargeezr]

Time to set up a huge tent city in the parks and ball diamonds in London to give the people a safe place to stay.  I will not be visiting London any time soon, not until they get everything looked over including all the hotels. What an absolute mess.

 

Geezer

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

Time to set up a huge tent city in the parks and ball diamonds in London to give the people a safe

place to stay.  I will not be visiting London any time soon, not until they get everything looked over

including all the hotels. What an absolute mess.

 

Geezer

London has great ball diamonds; what's a ball diamond? Is it an item of jewellery?

[Stargeezr]

Okay for the sake of international commenters, base ball diamond. or sports fields like soccer or football stadiums.  Maybe they were not clad with the same garbage they are finding on so many high rise buildings.

Geezer

[impulse]

30 minutes ago, Grouse said:

London has great ball diamonds; what's a ball diamond? Is it an item of jewellery?

 

They look a lot like this Cricket field:

 

 

 

Though I'm sure you knew that...

[Grouse]

17 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

They look a lot like this Cricket field:

 

 

 

Though I'm sure you knew that...

Looks more like an Oval than a diamond!

[natway09]

So much for BS,,,,,,,,, no ,,,,,,,,,,, it means British Standards

[champers]

39 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Looks more like an Oval than a diamond!

Looks like Melbourne to me.

[ddavidovsky]

Of course. Why would anyone assume it was only one building? There are probably many more but they're going to drip-feed the information to prevent widespread panic. The country is in a volatile state right now and just an inch away from riots.

[Grouse]

I want to know WHAT tests and what are the pass/fail criteria and which body is conducting the tests. The USA have UL (underwriters labs)

[champers]

1 hour ago, ddavidovsky said:

Of course. Why would anyone assume it was only one building? There are probably many more but they're going to drip-feed the information to prevent widespread panic. The country is in a volatile state right now and just an inch away from riots.

Really, close to riots? 

[trogers]

1 hour ago, natway09 said:

So much for BS,,,,,,,,, no ,,,,,,,,,,, it means British Standards

BS to BSS in one generation.

 

BSS - British Sub-Standard

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

I want to know WHAT tests and what are the pass/fail criteria and which body is conducting the tests. The USA have UL (underwriters labs)

This looks good!

 

http://www.paroc.co.uk/knowhow/fire/fire-classification

 

The noncombustable cladding option was rated A2. I believe there would have been no fatalities if this had been installed for 5k more...

 

Watch them condemn ALL cladding materials and thus exonerate the criminals who specified the wrong material.... 

Edited June 26, 2017 by Grouse

[Grouse]

http://www.differencebetween.net/science/difference-between-flammable-and-combustible/

 

So are they testing for flammability or combustibility? 

 

I'm not flammable but I am combustible!

 

Are they going to ban timber frame houses? 

 

I hope there are some engineers involved somewhere!!!! ?

[Grubster]

6 hours ago, Grouse said:

Looks more like an Oval than a diamond!

How many crickets can live on that field?  Just kidding.  It sure looks like those who want less regulations and less enforcement of regulations have mud on their face over this one.

[Crossy]

According to the BBC ALL the buildings tested so far (they quoted a large number which I forget) have failed which is really scary.

 

But, these buildings are no less safe now than they were two weeks ago. Why not mitigate the risks, give everyone who wants to stay fire extinguishers and a direct line to the local brigade bypassing the 999 service whilst the work to remove the cladding is being done?

 

 

[Grubster]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

http://www.differencebetween.net/science/difference-between-flammable-and-combustible/

 

So are they testing for flammability or combustibility? 

 

I'm not flammable but I am combustible!

 

Are they going to ban timber frame houses? 

 

I hope there are some engineers involved somewhere!!!! ?

No they won't ban wood construction on one or two story buildings, nor should they ban this type of cladding for one or two story buildings. Three or more floors and you need a fire stop barrier between each floor inside and out. This is very expensive to use fire caulk around every penetration between floors, electric pipes, plumbing pipes, ductwork, fire dampers in ductwork, fire doors in stairwells etc. etc., not to mention sprinkler systems. If you don't watch the contractors and or owners like a hawk they will skip as much of this as they can. I installed large commercial HVAC systems and I can tell you that most engineers write a disclaimer that says this blueprint is only a guideline and the contractor is responsible for making this system operate safely and effectively. If you take the job then you have agreed to this. So you better know your stuff so that you can see a poorly designed system and not bid on it.

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, Crossy said:

According to the BBC ALL the buildings tested so far (they quoted a large number which I forget) have failed which is really scary.

 

But, these buildings are no less safe now than they were two weeks ago. Why not mitigate the risks, give everyone who wants to stay fire extinguishers and a direct line to the local brigade bypassing the 999 service whilst the work to remove the cladding is being done?

 

 

I think it's the wrong test

 

Combustibility

 

instead of flammability

 

What are we saying, Crossy?  No PVC cables? No XLPE?

 

Its going to be a white wash. No building materials except stone, brick and concrete are incombustible.

 

The council allowed PE which is not even FR never mind A2 incombustible 

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, Grubster said:

No they won't ban wood construction on one or two story buildings, nor should they ban this type of cladding for one or two story buildings. Three or more floors and you need a fire stop barrier between each floor inside and out. This is very expensive to use fire caulk around every penetration between floors, electric pipes, plumbing pipes, ductwork, fire dampers in ductwork, fire doors in stairwells etc. etc., not to mention sprinkler systems. If you don't watch the contractors and or owners like a hawk they will skip as much of this as they can. I installed large commercial HVAC systems and I can tell you that most engineers write a disclaimer that says this blueprint is only a guideline and the contractor is responsible for making this system operate safely and effectively. If you take the job then you have agreed to this. So you better know your stuff so that you can see a poorly designed system and not bid on it.

I'll tell you something, Electrical Wiring Requirements BS7671 18th edition are tight as,well, tight.

 

We CAN do this properly.

 

We always ensure fire barriers in ducts etc

Edited June 26, 2017 by Grouse

[Grubster]

25 minutes ago, Crossy said:

According to the BBC ALL the buildings tested so far (they quoted a large number which I forget) have failed which is really scary.

 

But, these buildings are no less safe now than they were two weeks ago. Why not mitigate the risks, give everyone who wants to stay fire extinguishers and a direct line to the local brigade bypassing the 999 service whilst the work to remove the cladding is being done?

 

 

Because a fire truck or fire extinguisher would not have helped any of these dead people unless the fire truck got there before the fire got into the cladding. A hand glider might help.

[Crossy]

Just now, Grubster said:

Because a fire truck or fire extinguisher would not have helped any of these dead people unless the fire truck got there before the fire got into the cladding. A hand glider might help.

 

Indeed, I was thinking more of the chap with the fridge which (allegedly) started the blaze putting it out before it got out of the window.

 

I'm not saying everything is OK, just that the knee-jerk "everybody out" reaction is, as someone else noted, "too much, too late".

[Grubster]

12 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I'll tell you something, Electrical Wiring Requirements BS7671 18th edition are tight as,well, tight.

 

We CAN do this properly.

 

We always ensure fire barriers in ducts etc

I am sure you followed these rules closely as I did but I think you may be using the word "we" a little loosely, many HVAC and Electrical contractors cut corners like crazy.

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, Grubster said:

I am sure you followed these rules closely as I did but I think you may be using the word "we" a little loosely, many HVAC and Electrical contractors cut corners like crazy.

Sadly, I'm sure you're correct

 

I certify installations here in Thailand these days and also provide expert witness reports when there are Farang fatalities. I am almost permenantly angry ? 

[Grubster]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Sadly, I'm sure you're correct

 

I certify installations here in Thailand these days and also provide expert witness reports when there are Farang fatalities. I am almost permenantly angry ? 

You sure picked a bad place to do that work, but I guess you will never run out of work. I'm glad you and others like you are doing that here, as I always wonder when on a high floor here if things are done correctly.

[Basil B]

11 hours ago, Grouse said:

I want to know WHAT tests and what are the pass/fail criteria and which body is conducting the tests. The USA have UL (underwriters labs)

Probably CE...

 

...China Export

[MaxYakov]

Next, they should pull all the Hotpoint fridge/freezers from the buildings (just in case).

[halloween]

On 26/06/2017 at 9:54 AM, chrisinth said:

 

Where were these people relocated to from their own homes?

 

Edit: Just read the other thread on this. Pure and absolute cover your a s s/knee jerk reactions and uncalled for suffering for 4,000 residents IMO.

 

Too much too late.....................

There's a job going for someone brave enough to sign the document saying it is safe enough for 4000 people to live in firetraps. You should apply.