Is it considered work to have computers mining bitcoins ?

[JohnnyBKK]

Hello,

 

Is it considered work if I have a computer mining bitcoins ? And if I have more than one ?

 

Thanks.

[RichCor]

This question is off topic, but have you researched the ROI of mining bitcoins from Thailand?

[Maestro]

Quote

Is it considered work if I have a computer mining bitcoins ? And if I have more than one ?

 

In my opinion, it is not considered work to own and operate one or more computers to mine bitcoin, just like gambling in a casino or "playing" the stock markets for one's personal profit or loss is not considered work under Thai law.

[perthperson]

7 minutes ago, Maestro said:

 

In my opinion, it is not considered work to own and operate one or more computers to mine bitcoin, just like gambling in a casino or "playing" the stock markets for one's personal profit or loss is not considered work under Thai law.

I was under the impression that gambling was illegal in Thailand -- even the on line variety! 

[thaifoodruns]

I trade for a living off my computer everything is based overseas and I'm not employed or have a company here so no it shouldn't be considered working in thailand

[Maestro]

25 minutes ago, perthperson said:

I was under the impression that gambling was illegal in Thailand -- even the on line variety! 

 

Aye, illegal, it is, though not under labour laws 

 

Good of you to have caught me out on that. Luckily, I never got caught playing Mahjong with the in-laws during my time in Thailand (for one Baht per 10 points)

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I thought the Thai government at some prior point had declared that bitcoins were illegal in Thailand????

 

As for Mahjong Maestro, off to the Pattaya jail with you!!!

[Maestro]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

As for Mahjong Maestro, off to the Pattaya jail with you!!!

 

It was for playing bridge that some foreigners got into trouble with the law in Pattaya, not Mahjong, but this still doesn't make playing bridge legal, not even in Pattaya, unless the police have in the meantime changed their interpretation of the law in that regard.

 

Didn't I read about a move to make bridge an Olympic sport? Now, that should make it legal for sure, also in Thailand, without playing for money or betting on it, of course.

[SiamBeast]

It is not illegal - "work" is where you make money in a job that a Thai could have taken instead, and you won't make any money mining BTC, so it isn't work - it's mostly "donating your money to the metropolitan electricity authority" with zero ROI.

 

Unless you're gonna hire Somchai to bypass your meter, but that's illegal and I can't recommend this here.

[YetAnother]

54 minutes ago, Maestro said:

 

In my opinion, it is not considered work to own and operate one or more computers to mine bitcoin, just like gambling in a casino or "playing" the stock markets for one's personal profit or loss is not considered work under Thai law.

thais do not want you to cut your own grass

[perthperson]

7 minutes ago, YetAnother said:

thais do not want you to cut your own grass

Nonsense !   Been for years and always cut my own grass. 

 

How many people do you know who have been charged with grass-cutting without a WP? 

[Maestro]

31 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I thought the Thai government at some prior point had declared that bitcoins were illegal in Thailand????

 

Not declared illegal outright, but initially trading in bitcoin was discouraged or officially disallowed in Thailand, but later some people obtained the necessary certificate from whatever ministry or government agency was in charge of this and today there are several Thai websites trading legally in bitcoin.

[shanesox]

"Work" is decided by whatever the country decides! Picking up a piece of rubbish and putting in a bin(if you can find one) could be deemed doing the work of a street cleaner


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

 

It was for playing bridge that some foreigners got into trouble with the law in Pattaya, not Mahjong, but this still doesn't make playing bridge legal, not even in Pattaya, unless the police have in the meantime changed their interpretation of the law in that regard.

 

I knew that, of course re Pattaya and bridge.

 

But I still said, Off to Jail with You!!!  Plus the Mahjong Mario has a nice ring to it! 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

36 minutes ago, Maestro said:

 

Not declared illegal outright, but initially trading in bitcoin was discouraged or officially disallowed in Thailand, but later some people obtained the necessary certificate from whatever ministry or government agency was in charge of this and today there are several Thai websites trading legally in bitcoin.

I went back and looked, and apparently the news that hit back in 2013 re Thailand and bitcoins was, to use Trump's favorite term, a kind of "fake news."  I wasn't paying close attention at the time, just saw the headlines.

 

Some background on that past episode here:
 

Quote

 

On July 30th [2013], there was news that Thailand’s national bank had ruled Bitcoin illegal. Of course, this came in as a shock to many people who use the virtual currency, especially those who are not Thai. The ruling left those who follow the news wondering: can the bank make laws?

Actually, the answer is yes and no. Bitcoin exchange services in Thailand weren’t actually declared “illegal” per se, but Bitcoin Co. Ltd., the company this news originally came from, has been operating in Thailand without a license, which is illegal.
 

Any type of currency enchange service in Thailand needs to get a license from the Bank of Thailand, according to the Exchange Control Regulations in Thailand whether it’s “real” money or not. That’s why Bitcoin Co. Ltd. needed to be authorized to operate, and since it didn’t have that authorization, it was forced to shut down.

 

https://www.techinasia.com/bitcoin-illegal-thailand

 

Then there was the Bank of Thailand coming along somewhat later to say, no not illegal, but you shouldn't be using them:
 

Quote

 

Last month, the Bank of Thailand allowed the country’s largest Bitcoin exchange site Bitcoin.co.th to resume operation once again after forcing it to shut down in August. Prior to that, the bank ruled the cryptocurrency was illegal. Today, it seems the status of Bitcoin has taken another turn. The Bank of Thailand warned Thai citizens to not use Bitcoin as a mean of payment because Bitcoin is not a currency.

Here’s how the Bank of Thailand describes Bitcoin:

Bitcoin is electronic data. Thus, it’s not considered a currency and can’t be used for payments, and it’s not considered legal tender like money. With no self worth, the value of such data varies based on the needs of the market. Bitcoin changes in value very quickly and it could became something of no value if none desired it.

The bank also urges Thais to look at the ongoing MtGox’s controversy as an example of how Bitcoin is risky business. In addition, the Bank of Thailand also made it clear that in case of theft, loss of value, or fraud, Thai people cannot claim damages because there’s no law to regulate Bitcoin in Thailand.

 

 

https://www.techinasia.com/bank-thailand-tells-citizens-bitcoin-buy-products-services-currency

 

[1SteveC]

8 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

It was for playing bridge that some foreigners got into trouble with the law in Pattaya, not Mahjong, but this still doesn't make playing bridge legal, not even in Pattaya, unless the police have in the meantime changed their interpretation of the law in that regard.

 

Didn't I read about a move to make bridge an Olympic sport? Now, that should make it legal for sure, also in Thailand, without playing for money or betting on it, of course.

 

Not quite - they got in trouble for having too many playing cards in one place, not for playing bridge.

[maewang99]

does it take a day job away...... from a Thai?

no. 

and I'm a tax accountant... in the USA (a required disclaimer)..... meaning that I am used to everything being more complicated than it should be...

but on this one.... Bitcoins? I don't anything very complicated.









 

Edited July 2, 2017 by maewang99

[IMA_FARANG]

Technically, YES it is.

If your computer is located in Thailand that is enough to meet the definition of WORKING on-line from  Thailand, and that requires a work permit.

It does not matter if you directly or indirectly profit or get any income from this activity just having the computer  in Thailand and using it here is enough to meet the legal definition of "working in Thailand"

However, having said that, as with many things the law in Thailand does not deal directly with such a situation.

In fact the law on working on-line from  Thailand is way out of date and does not even consider many on-line activities.

So, in fact until the law is clarified as to what is definitely legal and what is  illegal, you are in a "gray area" legally and therefore the exact answer is unclear,

Personally,  I would advise being very careful, and keeping any such activity "under the radar"  until the law is made clear.

But I am not a lawyer.

 

 

 

[1SteveC]

2 minutes ago, IMA_FARANG said:

Technically, YES it is.

If your computer is located in Thailand that is enough to meet the definition of WORKING on-line from  Thailand, and that requires a work permit.

It does not matter if you directly or indirectly profit or get any income from this activity just having the computer  in Thailand and using it here is enough to meet the legal definition of "working in Thailand"

However, having said that, as with many things the law in Thailand does not deal directly with such a situation.

In fact the law on working on-line from  Thailand is way out of date and does not even consider many on-line activities.

So, in fact until the law is clarified as to what is definitely legal and what is  illegal, you are in a "gray area" legally and therefore the exact answer is unclear,

Personally,  I would advise being very careful, and keeping any such activity "under the radar"  until the law is made clear.

But I am not a lawyer.

 

 

 

 

"In fact the law on working on-line from  Thailand is way out of date" There is no mention of online working in the Working of Alien act 2551, so in fact it is not "out of date" it is non-existent.

[NoshowJones]

12 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

It was for playing bridge that some foreigners got into trouble with the law in Pattaya, not Mahjong, but this still doesn't make playing bridge legal, not even in Pattaya, unless the police have in the meantime changed their interpretation of the law in that regard.

 

Didn't I read about a move to make bridge an Olympic sport? Now, that should make it legal for sure, also in Thailand, without playing for money or betting on it, of course.

An Olympic "game', not "sport" I would think, just like archery. Is a sport not something that requires physical energy, where a game like darts, snooker, although skilled, can be played my people who have very little fitness, be obese, or even under the influence of alcohol?

[ThaiWai]

According to his previous posts he is investing 100000 USD and seeking a commercial building to house his mining operation.  If anyone in thinks that if this is discovered it will not be considered "work" by some random officials with their hands out in this country then they are seriously disillusioned.

[Dan5]

13 hours ago, SiamBeast said:

It is not illegal - "work" is where you make money in a job that a Thai could have taken instead, and you won't make any money mining BTC, so it isn't work - it's mostly "donating your money to the metropolitan electricity authority" with zero ROI.

 

Unless you're gonna hire Somchai to bypass your meter, but that's illegal and I can't recommend this here.

If there is no profit in mining bit coins, why do people do it? I read an article recently about the absolutely huge amount of electricity used by all the people minting them and I wondered how profitable it was.

[SiamBeast]

1 minute ago, Dan5 said:

If there is no profit in mining bit coins, why do people do it? I read an article recently about the absolutely huge amount of electricity used by all the people minting them and I wondered how profitable it was.

 

There is some money to be made IF:

 

1) You own (or lease) a datacenter with over 10,000 dedicated machine

2) You live in a place where electricity is dirt cheap (or steal electricity)

 

Some early adopters made money with mining, but nowadays, the difficulty and hashrate are so high that only the huge players make money - the days where someone could make money with their own computer mining are over.

[williamgeorgeallen]

13 hours ago, perthperson said:

Nonsense !   Been for years and always cut my own grass. 

 

How many people do you know who have been charged with grass-cutting without a WP? 

people have been fined ( fines are almost always issued on the spot, matter is almost never taken to court) for all sorts of silly things. i know a bar owner drinking in his own bar who got fined for talking to his mates who were drinking there. what the law is does not matter at all. it is only illegal if you get caught. dont tell anyone and keep your door locked and you will be fine.

[perthperson]

6 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

people have been fined ( fines are almost always issued on the spot, matter is almost never taken to court) for all sorts of silly things. i know a bar owner drinking in his own bar who got fined for talking to his mates who were drinking there. what the law is does not matter at all. it is only illegal if you get caught. dont tell anyone and keep your door locked and you will be fine.

Really ?  Now prove what you claim!  

 

We all know a friend of  friend of a friend who is happy to repeat the latest bar stool news ! 

 

I will be mowing my grass today. All my Thai neighbours can see what I am doing and I will not be 'caught' or fined ! 

[Kabula]

If you are working and earning money in Thailand and have no work visa and not paying taxes it is illegal.  In fact doing charity work without earning money is illegal here according to several Thai lawyers I consulted with.

[FritsSikkink]

15 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

In my opinion, it is not considered work to own and operate one or more computers to mine bitcoin, just like gambling in a casino or "playing" the stock markets for one's personal profit or loss is not considered work under Thai law.

deleted

Edited July 2, 2017 by FritsSikkink

[williamgeorgeallen]

1 minute ago, perthperson said:

Really ?  Now prove what you claim!  

 

We all know a friend of  friend of a friend who is happy to repeat the latest bar stool news ! 

 

I will be mowing my grass today. All my Thai neighbours can see what I am doing and I will not be 'caught' or fined ! 

prove what? that you are not doing anything illegal unless you are caught? doubt any one cares about you mowing grass unless you have upset them in some way, technically you are breaking the law. 

[perthperson]

Just now, williamgeorgeallen said:

prove what? that you are not doing anything illegal unless you are caught? doubt any one cares about you mowing grass unless you have upset them in some way, technically you are breaking the law. 

 

Sadly there are far too  many people like you who are prepared to indulge in rumour, gossip and gross exaggeration. 

 

Did I tell you that one of my neighbours (until recently) was a senior officer with the Dept.Of Work/Employment ? 

 

I repeat I will  continue cutting my grass and doing all the other tasks associated with maintaining a property and I will not be "caught" or fined. 

 

IF your doom laden prediction of my being "caught" ever happens(very unlikely) I will insist on being charged and taken to court. 

[IAMHERE]

14 hours ago, perthperson said:

Nonsense !   Been for years and always cut my own grass. 

 

How many people do you know who have been charged with grass-cutting without a WP? 

Up til recently I'd never heard of bridge players being rounded up and taken off to jail until they came up with 5000 bail money so they could go home and take their old age medicines. Those guys/gals are still in legal limbo so no telling what can become of someone in Thailand; even for cutting your own grass.