JohnnyBKK Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Hello, Is it considered work if I have a computer mining bitcoins ? And if I have more than one ? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichCor Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 This question is off topic, but have you researched the ROI of mining bitcoins from Thailand? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Quote Is it considered work if I have a computer mining bitcoins ? And if I have more than one ? In my opinion, it is not considered work to own and operate one or more computers to mine bitcoin, just like gambling in a casino or "playing" the stock markets for one's personal profit or loss is not considered work under Thai law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post perthperson Posted July 1, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted July 1, 2017 7 minutes ago, Maestro said: In my opinion, it is not considered work to own and operate one or more computers to mine bitcoin, just like gambling in a casino or "playing" the stock markets for one's personal profit or loss is not considered work under Thai law. I was under the impression that gambling was illegal in Thailand -- even the on line variety! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post thaifoodruns Posted July 1, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted July 1, 2017 I trade for a living off my computer everything is based overseas and I'm not employed or have a company here so no it shouldn't be considered working in thailand 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 25 minutes ago, perthperson said: I was under the impression that gambling was illegal in Thailand -- even the on line variety! Aye, illegal, it is, though not under labour laws Good of you to have caught me out on that. Luckily, I never got caught playing Mahjong with the in-laws during my time in Thailand (for one Baht per 10 points) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 I thought the Thai government at some prior point had declared that bitcoins were illegal in Thailand???? As for Mahjong Maestro, off to the Pattaya jail with you!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: As for Mahjong Maestro, off to the Pattaya jail with you!!! It was for playing bridge that some foreigners got into trouble with the law in Pattaya, not Mahjong, but this still doesn't make playing bridge legal, not even in Pattaya, unless the police have in the meantime changed their interpretation of the law in that regard. Didn't I read about a move to make bridge an Olympic sport? Now, that should make it legal for sure, also in Thailand, without playing for money or betting on it, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post SiamBeast Posted July 1, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted July 1, 2017 It is not illegal - "work" is where you make money in a job that a Thai could have taken instead, and you won't make any money mining BTC, so it isn't work - it's mostly "donating your money to the metropolitan electricity authority" with zero ROI. Unless you're gonna hire Somchai to bypass your meter, but that's illegal and I can't recommend this here. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YetAnother Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 54 minutes ago, Maestro said: In my opinion, it is not considered work to own and operate one or more computers to mine bitcoin, just like gambling in a casino or "playing" the stock markets for one's personal profit or loss is not considered work under Thai law. thais do not want you to cut your own grass 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perthperson Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 7 minutes ago, YetAnother said: thais do not want you to cut your own grass Nonsense ! Been for years and always cut my own grass. How many people do you know who have been charged with grass-cutting without a WP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 31 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: I thought the Thai government at some prior point had declared that bitcoins were illegal in Thailand???? Not declared illegal outright, but initially trading in bitcoin was discouraged or officially disallowed in Thailand, but later some people obtained the necessary certificate from whatever ministry or government agency was in charge of this and today there are several Thai websites trading legally in bitcoin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanesox Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 "Work" is decided by whatever the country decides! Picking up a piece of rubbish and putting in a bin(if you can find one) could be deemed doing the work of a street cleaner Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Maestro said: It was for playing bridge that some foreigners got into trouble with the law in Pattaya, not Mahjong, but this still doesn't make playing bridge legal, not even in Pattaya, unless the police have in the meantime changed their interpretation of the law in that regard. I knew that, of course re Pattaya and bridge. But I still said, Off to Jail with You!!! Plus the Mahjong Mario has a nice ring to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 36 minutes ago, Maestro said: Not declared illegal outright, but initially trading in bitcoin was discouraged or officially disallowed in Thailand, but later some people obtained the necessary certificate from whatever ministry or government agency was in charge of this and today there are several Thai websites trading legally in bitcoin. I went back and looked, and apparently the news that hit back in 2013 re Thailand and bitcoins was, to use Trump's favorite term, a kind of "fake news." I wasn't paying close attention at the time, just saw the headlines. Some background on that past episode here: Quote On July 30th [2013], there was news that Thailand’s national bank had ruled Bitcoin illegal. Of course, this came in as a shock to many people who use the virtual currency, especially those who are not Thai. The ruling left those who follow the news wondering: can the bank make laws? Actually, the answer is yes and no. Bitcoin exchange services in Thailand weren’t actually declared “illegal” per se, but Bitcoin Co. Ltd., the company this news originally came from, has been operating in Thailand without a license, which is illegal. Any type of currency enchange service in Thailand needs to get a license from the Bank of Thailand, according to the Exchange Control Regulations in Thailand whether it’s “real” money or not. That’s why Bitcoin Co. Ltd. needed to be authorized to operate, and since it didn’t have that authorization, it was forced to shut down. https://www.techinasia.com/bitcoin-illegal-thailand Then there was the Bank of Thailand coming along somewhat later to say, no not illegal, but you shouldn't be using them: Quote Last month, the Bank of Thailand allowed the country’s largest Bitcoin exchange site Bitcoin.co.th to resume operation once again after forcing it to shut down in August. Prior to that, the bank ruled the cryptocurrency was illegal. Today, it seems the status of Bitcoin has taken another turn. The Bank of Thailand warned Thai citizens to not use Bitcoin as a mean of payment because Bitcoin is not a currency. Here’s how the Bank of Thailand describes Bitcoin: Bitcoin is electronic data. Thus, it’s not considered a currency and can’t be used for payments, and it’s not considered legal tender like money. With no self worth, the value of such data varies based on the needs of the market. Bitcoin changes in value very quickly and it could became something of no value if none desired it. The bank also urges Thais to look at the ongoing MtGox’s controversy as an example of how Bitcoin is risky business. In addition, the Bank of Thailand also made it clear that in case of theft, loss of value, or fraud, Thai people cannot claim damages because there’s no law to regulate Bitcoin in Thailand. https://www.techinasia.com/bank-thailand-tells-citizens-bitcoin-buy-products-services-currency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1SteveC Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 8 hours ago, Maestro said: It was for playing bridge that some foreigners got into trouble with the law in Pattaya, not Mahjong, but this still doesn't make playing bridge legal, not even in Pattaya, unless the police have in the meantime changed their interpretation of the law in that regard. Didn't I read about a move to make bridge an Olympic sport? Now, that should make it legal for sure, also in Thailand, without playing for money or betting on it, of course. Not quite - they got in trouble for having too many playing cards in one place, not for playing bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maewang99 Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) does it take a day job away...... from a Thai? no. and I'm a tax accountant... in the USA (a required disclaimer)..... meaning that I am used to everything being more complicated than it should be... but on this one.... Bitcoins? I don't anything very complicated. Edited July 2, 2017 by maewang99 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA_FARANG Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Technically, YES it is. If your computer is located in Thailand that is enough to meet the definition of WORKING on-line from Thailand, and that requires a work permit. It does not matter if you directly or indirectly profit or get any income from this activity just having the computer in Thailand and using it here is enough to meet the legal definition of "working in Thailand" However, having said that, as with many things the law in Thailand does not deal directly with such a situation. In fact the law on working on-line from Thailand is way out of date and does not even consider many on-line activities. So, in fact until the law is clarified as to what is definitely legal and what is illegal, you are in a "gray area" legally and therefore the exact answer is unclear, Personally, I would advise being very careful, and keeping any such activity "under the radar" until the law is made clear. But I am not a lawyer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1SteveC Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, IMA_FARANG said: Technically, YES it is. If your computer is located in Thailand that is enough to meet the definition of WORKING on-line from Thailand, and that requires a work permit. It does not matter if you directly or indirectly profit or get any income from this activity just having the computer in Thailand and using it here is enough to meet the legal definition of "working in Thailand" However, having said that, as with many things the law in Thailand does not deal directly with such a situation. In fact the law on working on-line from Thailand is way out of date and does not even consider many on-line activities. So, in fact until the law is clarified as to what is definitely legal and what is illegal, you are in a "gray area" legally and therefore the exact answer is unclear, Personally, I would advise being very careful, and keeping any such activity "under the radar" until the law is made clear. But I am not a lawyer. "In fact the law on working on-line from Thailand is way out of date" There is no mention of online working in the Working of Alien act 2551, so in fact it is not "out of date" it is non-existent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 12 hours ago, Maestro said: It was for playing bridge that some foreigners got into trouble with the law in Pattaya, not Mahjong, but this still doesn't make playing bridge legal, not even in Pattaya, unless the police have in the meantime changed their interpretation of the law in that regard. Didn't I read about a move to make bridge an Olympic sport? Now, that should make it legal for sure, also in Thailand, without playing for money or betting on it, of course. An Olympic "game', not "sport" I would think, just like archery. Is a sport not something that requires physical energy, where a game like darts, snooker, although skilled, can be played my people who have very little fitness, be obese, or even under the influence of alcohol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiWai Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 According to his previous posts he is investing 100000 USD and seeking a commercial building to house his mining operation. If anyone in thinks that if this is discovered it will not be considered "work" by some random officials with their hands out in this country then they are seriously disillusioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan5 Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 13 hours ago, SiamBeast said: It is not illegal - "work" is where you make money in a job that a Thai could have taken instead, and you won't make any money mining BTC, so it isn't work - it's mostly "donating your money to the metropolitan electricity authority" with zero ROI. Unless you're gonna hire Somchai to bypass your meter, but that's illegal and I can't recommend this here. If there is no profit in mining bit coins, why do people do it? I read an article recently about the absolutely huge amount of electricity used by all the people minting them and I wondered how profitable it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiamBeast Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Dan5 said: If there is no profit in mining bit coins, why do people do it? I read an article recently about the absolutely huge amount of electricity used by all the people minting them and I wondered how profitable it was. There is some money to be made IF: 1) You own (or lease) a datacenter with over 10,000 dedicated machine 2) You live in a place where electricity is dirt cheap (or steal electricity) Some early adopters made money with mining, but nowadays, the difficulty and hashrate are so high that only the huge players make money - the days where someone could make money with their own computer mining are over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamgeorgeallen Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 13 hours ago, perthperson said: Nonsense ! Been for years and always cut my own grass. How many people do you know who have been charged with grass-cutting without a WP? people have been fined ( fines are almost always issued on the spot, matter is almost never taken to court) for all sorts of silly things. i know a bar owner drinking in his own bar who got fined for talking to his mates who were drinking there. what the law is does not matter at all. it is only illegal if you get caught. dont tell anyone and keep your door locked and you will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perthperson Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said: people have been fined ( fines are almost always issued on the spot, matter is almost never taken to court) for all sorts of silly things. i know a bar owner drinking in his own bar who got fined for talking to his mates who were drinking there. what the law is does not matter at all. it is only illegal if you get caught. dont tell anyone and keep your door locked and you will be fine. Really ? Now prove what you claim! We all know a friend of friend of a friend who is happy to repeat the latest bar stool news ! I will be mowing my grass today. All my Thai neighbours can see what I am doing and I will not be 'caught' or fined ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabula Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 If you are working and earning money in Thailand and have no work visa and not paying taxes it is illegal. In fact doing charity work without earning money is illegal here according to several Thai lawyers I consulted with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, Maestro said: In my opinion, it is not considered work to own and operate one or more computers to mine bitcoin, just like gambling in a casino or "playing" the stock markets for one's personal profit or loss is not considered work under Thai law. deleted Edited July 2, 2017 by FritsSikkink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamgeorgeallen Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 1 minute ago, perthperson said: Really ? Now prove what you claim! We all know a friend of friend of a friend who is happy to repeat the latest bar stool news ! I will be mowing my grass today. All my Thai neighbours can see what I am doing and I will not be 'caught' or fined ! prove what? that you are not doing anything illegal unless you are caught? doubt any one cares about you mowing grass unless you have upset them in some way, technically you are breaking the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perthperson Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Just now, williamgeorgeallen said: prove what? that you are not doing anything illegal unless you are caught? doubt any one cares about you mowing grass unless you have upset them in some way, technically you are breaking the law. Sadly there are far too many people like you who are prepared to indulge in rumour, gossip and gross exaggeration. Did I tell you that one of my neighbours (until recently) was a senior officer with the Dept.Of Work/Employment ? I repeat I will continue cutting my grass and doing all the other tasks associated with maintaining a property and I will not be "caught" or fined. IF your doom laden prediction of my being "caught" ever happens(very unlikely) I will insist on being charged and taken to court. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAMHERE Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 14 hours ago, perthperson said: Nonsense ! Been for years and always cut my own grass. How many people do you know who have been charged with grass-cutting without a WP? Up til recently I'd never heard of bridge players being rounded up and taken off to jail until they came up with 5000 bail money so they could go home and take their old age medicines. Those guys/gals are still in legal limbo so no telling what can become of someone in Thailand; even for cutting your own grass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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