The poisonous Brother in Law

[sharktooth]

I love this forum. At least people are honest and tell it like it is. On the Chiang Mai forum that I use, cos I live there, folk are so up their own arse and pretentious it beggars believe. Nobody admits to their mistakes and any slight on the locals is shouted down as thai bashing. Let rip boys, let rip...

[NanLaew]

5 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

The US Ambassador to Thailand spent 17 years in Thailand back in the 1960s and 1970s. In his telex (remember those)  reports he constantly referred to Thailand as the "Land of secrets and half-truths". (Source Wikileaks). That was at the higher levels of Thai society.

 

It's little wonder some are struggling with the problems in the villages. Understanding what is really going on and trying to decipher the truth within families is very difficult, and stressful, at times.

 

A similar way of thinking from top to bottom. Just look at the nonsense put out by governments and the smoke screens on the news.

Plus a language where context is inferred rather than implicitly stated.

[madusa]

1 hour ago, The Dark Lord said:

Dear Madusa  that is a most enlightening post, thanks. I think forication is boom boom outside of marriage and copulation the act itself but as it has been a long time since either happened here, I may be wrong!

 

how do we explain away the ridiculous lies that the feckless males spout all the time, surely that cannot be ingrained culture?

Hello Dark Lord, much obliged for your good comment.

Telling lies is second nature to the Thais, no, no,  I am not Thai bashing here. Just wait, I am going to explain this. It is not part of their culture nevertheless it is so common practice that the Thais apparently do it without really giving it much thought, this is bad but the Thais don't perceive it as anything bad so they carry on doing it.

In society where you come from telling lie is bad not acceptable, we will see how a society  perception and tolerant of lie differ from nation to nation.  A group of British geologists & scientists went to Iran in early 1960s under Iran-British government agreement to study the water table(underground water) They drove their Land Rover(British made tough vehicle) into the countryside and got lost. They asked the villagers for direction. They were told if you go straight ahead and then turn left you will find it. They didn't find it . And again villagers elsewhere told them lies about which direction they should go when they asked for direction. They began to feel that everyone in Iran was telling lies. Not a nice feeling for them.

Later they found out that in Iran(especially in the countryside) it was considered bad manner and shameful to say, "sorry I don't know how you could get there, I can't help you". so they will say something, something even if it is a lie. This overwhelming desire not to appear bad manner in front of visitors(in particular overseas visitors) they tell you a lie. So in the Iranian society to appear good manner take priority over everything else including a lie.

The Thais tell lies to save face, to feel good that they say something nice and to get away from any guilt feeling even if it is for a moment. Jesus, they do it all the time and it has become second nature to them. It has become second nature to the Iranians in one aspect.

May be this explanation helps a bit. 

[NanLaew]

3 minutes ago, sharktooth said:

I love this forum. At least people are honest and tell it like it is. On the Chiang Mai forum that I use, cos I live there, folk are so up their own arse and pretentious it beggars believe. Nobody admits to their mistakes and any slight on the locals is shouted down as thai bashing. Let rip boys, let rip...

So that rather parochial local forum could safely be described as a nest of apologists? Never mind, pretty much every provincial backwater has them, even the half-decent ones.

 

In Udon, we have two.

 

Villa Markets that is.

[owl sees all]

7 minutes ago, madusa said:

The Thais tell lies to save face, to feel good that they say something nice and to get away from any guilt feeling even if it is for a moment.

I agree. And I also think the Thais say things that they think they want you to hear. The fact that it's a load of b------s doesn't seem that important. 

 

When I first came to Thailand it would upset me when I found out that people (including wife) were simply lying. A few years on - and a whole lot wiser - I now try to read between the lines and I sometimes get to the truth from deciphering the non-truths. Not always easy but better than believing the lie in the first place!!

[mikiea]

On 7/1/2017 at 11:39 PM, starky said:

Though I understand your frustration he is 37.  So without being rude when did you come on the scene? Bit late to be changing your spots at near 40 don't ya reckon. On the other hand if you have been around for a long time what have you done to help guide him in the right direction? Or is this just another impotent, go nowhere rant. Gave me a good laugh though. Basically if you haven't been in the family long how is it your business and if you have been well I imagine there was plenty of time that you could have instilled something in him. Me I just accept that there is likely a bad apple in a lot of families and for the most part that is how they will remain no use doing head miles over it IMO

starky you bump your head recently  ?

 

[mikiea]

On 7/2/2017 at 9:53 AM, oldhippy said:

It is beyond my  understanding that Thais don't realize that this borrowing / subsidizing leads to nowhere.

 

My wife and her family were just about ruined by putting themselves up as guarantors for a bank loan of the elder brother. You would think that as a result the idea of lending money would have become taboo.

Recently my wife's son wanted to set up a coffee cart. He did not ask me - I am known to be keenoi (? stingy in English). So he borrowed 20.000 from BiL (yes, for a coffee cart) - 4 weeks later no more coffee cart, no more 20.000.

But lazy ass son and BiL still get along well!

 

Maybe it is that weird local abomination of buddhism?

 

 

 

no you are wrong ,  simple is as simple does ..... back in the day we called it "blood simple"  

[mikiea]

25 minutes ago, madusa said:

Hello Dark Lord, much obliged for your good comment.

Telling lies is second nature to the Thais, no, no,  I am not Thai bashing here. Just wait, I am going to explain this. It is not part of their culture nevertheless it is so common practice that the Thais apparently do it without really giving it much thought, this is bad but the Thais don't perceive it as anything bad so they carry on doing it.

In society where you come from telling lie is bad not acceptable, we will see how a society  perception and tolerant of lie differ from nation to nation.  A group of British geologists & scientists went to Iran in early 1960s under Iran-British government agreement to study the water table(underground water) They drove their Land Rover(British made tough vehicle) into the countryside and got lost. They asked the villagers for direction. They were told if you go straight ahead and then turn left you will find it. They didn't find it . And again villagers elsewhere told them lies about which direction they should go when they asked for direction. They began to feel that everyone in Iran was telling lies. Not a nice feeling for them.

Later they found out that in Iran(especially in the countryside) it was considered bad manner and shameful to say, "sorry I don't know how you could get there, I can't help you". so they will say something, something even if it is a lie. This overwhelming desire not to appear bad manner in front of visitors(in particular overseas visitors) they tell you a lie. So in the Iranian society to appear good manner take priority over everything else including a lie.

The Thais tell lies to save face, to feel good that they say something nice and to get away from any guilt feeling even if it is for a moment. Jesus, they do it all the time and it has become second nature to them. It has become second nature to the Iranians in one aspect.

May be this explanation helps a bit. 

so many words to say very little .... a terd by any other name is still a terd .....

[mikiea]

On 7/2/2017 at 5:22 PM, sipi said:

My three brother in laws are terrific.

Oops sorry, you asked not to mention that.

they have succeeded in making you look foolish to others outside your family .....but it is all well and ok ... the boot cleaner on the porch of a Appalachia villa is "still" part of the whole house .  know your place and keep the wallet under the floorboards .

[madusa]

29 minutes ago, mikiea said:

so many words to say very little .... a terd by any other name is still a terd .....

Mikiea or whatever your name is. I am a good disciple of Buddha so I don't retaliate.

"a terd by any other name is still a terd...."  I like that. This whole forum is a big piece of terd if i may say so. I prefer more common word "dog shit" rather than terd.

[oldhippy]

6 minutes ago, madusa said:

Mikiea or whatever your name is. I am a good disciple of Buddha so I don't retaliate.

"a terd by any other name is still a terd...."  I like that. This whole forum is a big piece of terd if i may say so. I prefer more common word "dog shit" rather than terd.

Must be a difficult life for a good disciple of buddha, to be living in Thailand.

How do you cope with Thai buddhism??

 

[The Dark Lord]

2 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

Dude... ditch her and never do it again - life's too short

Shhhhh don't announce my plans lannadude old chum, that increases the chance of a sharp or heavy object coming my way...........

 

BTW, not a man to shy from my beliefs, just about finished packing up my stuff ( except that which continues to lay outside on the floor) just waiting for the transfer (££££) to come through and I am history ( well until it comes time to renew my retirement thingy) 

 

you are absolutely coreect though, life is too short ( so is money) to put up with that nonsense. She has no income and no parents. Son stole the car and took out a loan on it, (the other one is getting a new head gasket fitted) daughter married a waster froggie chap who has nothing but expects us (me) to support his family.

 

nah best out I think let her cool down, come to her senses ( about the time the bills are due) and try to contact me. See how I am feeling then as to future.......

[The Dark Lord]

2 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Yes,I am going home in two weeks.

 

This has become another rich source of confabulations as my wife is continually "advised" on sundry matters by her 742 facebook/line Thai friends.

 

They are all "experts" in the field of visa and such..so every morning I am presented with a different plan usually from the latest Thai person she talks to...

 

Foreigners (me) just do not cut the mustard on such mundane matters as plane fares,visas..etc.

 

Nevertheless..I have my parachute strapped on,have hooked up  and  am standing in the door.

Good luck on your travels my friend. Coming back anytime soon?

[The Dark Lord]

1 hour ago, madusa said:

Hello Dark Lord, much obliged for your good comment.

Telling lies is second nature to the Thais, no, no,  I am not Thai bashing here. Just wait, I am going to explain this. It is not part of their culture nevertheless it is so common practice that the Thais apparently do it without really giving it much thought, this is bad but the Thais don't perceive it as anything bad so they carry on doing it.

In society where you come from telling lie is bad not acceptable, we will see how a society  perception and tolerant of lie differ from nation to nation.  A group of British geologists & scientists went to Iran in early 1960s under Iran-British government agreement to study the water table(underground water) They drove their Land Rover(British made tough vehicle) into the countryside and got lost. They asked the villagers for direction. They were told if you go straight ahead and then turn left you will find it. They didn't find it . And again villagers elsewhere told them lies about which direction they should go when they asked for direction. They began to feel that everyone in Iran was telling lies. Not a nice feeling for them.

Later they found out that in Iran(especially in the countryside) it was considered bad manner and shameful to say, "sorry I don't know how you could get there, I can't help you". so they will say something, something even if it is a lie. This overwhelming desire not to appear bad manner in front of visitors(in particular overseas visitors) they tell you a lie. So in the Iranian society to appear good manner take priority over everything else including a lie.

The Thais tell lies to save face, to feel good that they say something nice and to get away from any guilt feeling even if it is for a moment. Jesus, they do it all the time and it has become second nature to them. It has become second nature to the Iranians in one aspect.

May be this explanation helps a bit. 

Dear Madusa old chum, you have produced yet another totally enlightening post giving me food for thought. I love your posts, so unbiased, informative and well written. Sincerest thanks.

 

if I may ask one question though; how would it be viewed if we were to deliberately lie to a thai? Would they be offended as in "do as I say not as I do" or would it be another day another dollar ( I don't care) reaction?

 

of course I realise it is likely to differ from person to person as well as social standing but .........

[madusa]

2 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Must be a difficult life for a good disciple of buddha, to be living in Thailand.

How do you cope with Thai buddhism?

 

To live in Thailand and to be a good disciple of Buddha is indeed difficult. Simply because you see lots of Buddhist principles not being observed and practice. How do I cope? I am in the state of denial all the time.

The whole country is being intoxicated by consumerism, it is like a plague. The Buddhist society in Thailand is like a big piece of very old fabric slowly disintegrating. 

I wonder why the government and the Buddhist Council of Thailand are not giving the public lots of informations on Abhhdharma. Abhidharma is the higher learning of Buddhism and it is the ultimate in Buddhist teaching.

Rather than sticking gold paper on Buddha statue or famous Buddhist monk statue it is better the Thais learn the original buddhist teaching. Just dump all the nats or dragons in front of the wats and get on with the good works of the Buddha.

[The Dark Lord]

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

I agree. And I also think the Thais say things that they think they want you to hear. The fact that it's a load of b------s doesn't seem that important. 

 

When I first came to Thailand it would upset me when I found out that people (including wife) were simply lying. A few years on - and a whole lot wiser - I now try to read between the lines and I sometimes get to the truth from deciphering the non-truths. Not always easy but better than believing the lie in the first place!!

Ah wise old owl, you have that unique and rarely found gift of understanding, even partially, the working of a woman's mind ( I am not being misogynistic it is that we think very differently) 

 

when you combine that to the cultural differences between foreigner from the west with set with set of values 1 and indigenous local with set of values Z you must be some sort of psychiatrist or deffo a genius unless of course ( and no offence intended) you have got it totally wrong and Mrs Owl has given up.......

[owl sees all]

19 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

How do you cope with Thai buddhism?

Good question indeed!

 

I can't really see 'Buddhism' here. I see superstition, paganism and avarice. (Precious little in the way of 'love' by the way). Does not the Buddhist teachings reject 'desire'?

 

Perhaps some of the more important elements got omitted by the time it arrived in Thailand.

[madusa]

7 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said:

Dear Madusa old chum, you have produced yet another totally enlightening post giving me food for thought. I love your posts, so unbiased, informative and well written. Sincerest thanks.

 

if I may ask one question though; how would it be viewed if we were to deliberately lie to a thai? Would they be offended as in "do as I say not as I do" or would it be another day another dollar ( I don't care) reaction?

 

of course I realise it is likely to differ from person to person as well as social standing but .........

I don't think Thais would be offended if you lie to them. Of course it very much depends on the circumstances. In business deal I guess they would be offended. If we are talking about normal everyday dealing no big money involved they wouldn't care a damn. They may even think "this Farang must have lived in Thailand a long time to behave like this"

I lived and studied in Japan, it is one of the few countries where the people don't tell lies, very, very seldom you encounter people telling you lies. Taxi drivers are very honest. Amazing. (Again this doesn't apply to Business dealing, because some japanese businessmen do lie to make more money, just normal everywhere).

[samsensam]

 

not sure why you care so much. there are lazy losers in every country.

 

i'm sure many foreigners enable such characters when they pay a local to be their friend, girlfriend, boyfriend,husband or wife and that money then gets passed onto other members of the family who, thank you very much mr farang, dont need to work.

[owl sees all]

8 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said:

you must be some sort of psychiatrist or deffo a genius unless of course ( and no offence intended) you have got it totally wrong and Mrs Owl has given up.

Well judging by her rants today Dark Lord; she is not given up.

 

My life in UK revolved around 'logic', truth and evidence. These things just do not go down well here in Thailand.

 

I found it very hard to adjust here. Fortunately I have a decent income from UK and I try to help where I can. Sometimes all is OK. The wife gets a good shout but very occasionally if she thinks that someone is getting something that she could be entitled to; WW3 ensues. Some of these rants have nothing to do with me per se. She was upset with her sister or her older daughter etc. At times like this everything gets leveled at me. In the early days I would think it was me. Now I can  sometimes fathom the real problems (mostly over nothing) by deciphering the half-truths.

 

 

[The Dark Lord]

18 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Well judging by her rants today Dark Lord; she is not given up.

 

My life in UK revolved around 'logic', truth and evidence. These things just do not go down well here in Thailand.

 

I found it very hard to adjust here. Fortunately I have a decent income from UK and I try to help where I can. Sometimes all is OK. The wife gets a good shout but very occasionally if she thinks that someone is getting something that she could be entitled to; WW3 ensues. Some of these rants have nothing to do with me per se. She was upset with her sister or her older daughter etc. At times like this everything gets leveled at me. In the early days I would think it was me. Now I can  sometimes fathom the real problems (mostly over nothing) by deciphering the half-truths.

 

 

Ah wise one, I can only but bow to your wisdom ( no I am not taking the piss) I have tried and failed to come to grips with the fact that everything that goes wrong, irrespective of he perpetrator of said wrong, I get it in the neck. 

 

Way back when the current (?) Mrs DL and I were walking out if some thai bird even fluttered an eyelid in my direction, I got the cackar. We even had ( whilst living in the UK) some daft tart come around with her ( I assume) boyfriend. They were in our house no more than one hour. On meeting them at the door I took their coats ( snow on the ground) and hung them up, I then offered them a drink and then sat down to myself because either they didn't or preferred not to talk English. 

 

Two days later old fifi the bird phones my wife up and tells her that I wanted to sleep with her because I took her coat and offered her a drink!

 

My wife hit the roof with me and I got piles of shit and abuse for over a week. 

 

What the hell is wrong wrong with them? Fifi for her decidedly overactive imagination as well as Mrs DL for believing that crap from someone she has just met?

 

sorry but they are totally screwed up as a race (I can only talk about Issan as that is my experience) 

 

it is said everyone has a limit. Well I believe I have now reached mine. So for the soon to be former Mrs DL there will be no new house in Rayong, No new BMW in the drive, no more money making schemes that consist of "borrowing" vast sums from me then  handing it out like a man with no arms to any and all Facebook scammers that happen to catch her eye. In fact there will be nothing. I know I will get criticism from some, maybe many but when my six month old £1000 laptop is hurled accross the room, cars stolen by family, money disappearing from my wallet to help the son and daughter etc etc etc I am finding it difficult to find any reason to go on supporting her. 

 

I also noted whilst upgrading her iPad at her request that there were a whole host of Captains and Majors from the USArmy looking for a freind on her FB account.

 

i don't for one minute believe any are actually us military but what double standards are in play here.

 

and so as to remove any element of doubt, I am not a handsome guy and have never strayed either in body or mind from her in our 17 years. Why then am I repeatedly accused in public of being an old man with a snakes head or a butterfly? It's just crap talk

 

nah the double standards and the ability to lie about the facts to the freinds (FBI friends) has reached My limit. 

 

Sorry for pouring out my angst , most of you don't deserve it but use it as a warning. 

[Rhys]

... the brother in law gambit is a culturally universal theme.... At least he hasn't rip you off with credit card fraud...  However, as one poster stated:  It is part of the culture to deal or not deal with this.. good example, if... a parent has a gambling addiction, young girls go to work, or better yet, the family does not interfere with how the family operates, " just let them alone."   It all comes down to enabling behaviors by others... The cultural way..

[owl sees all]

29 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said:

My wife hit the roof with me and I got piles of shit and abuse for over a week. 

 

What the hell is wrong wrong with them? Fifi for her decidedly overactive imagination as well as Mrs DL for believing that crap from someone she has just met?

 

sorry but they are totally screwed up as a race (I can only talk about Issan as that is my experience)

Dark Lord!!! I was under the impression that my wife (the present Mrs Owl) was the most jealous lady in Thailand. Now I realise she has a strong rival for that crown; Mrs DL!!!!.

 

And although it seems a little off topic' these 'failings' (jealousy, avarice, greed, laziness, failing to speak truths and lying) go someway to explain why the BiLaw in the OP is so.

 

My father was a Chindit during WW2; a very tough, but loving man. If I had shown the traits, that the BinLaw (OP) has shown, my father would have sorted my mind out good and proper. If I couldn't change my ways I would have got my marching orders PDQ.

 

I sympathise with you bro' on the jealously front.

[oldhippy]

26 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said:

 

nah the double standards and the ability to lie about the facts to the freinds (FBI friends) has reached My limit. 

 

Sorry for pouring out my angst , most of you don't deserve it but use it as a warning. 

It all sounds so familiar..... though your story is rather extreme, even for Thai standards.

The telling everything on FB thing, the internet friends, the double standards,....

Maybe we are just too polite, patient and understanding, and they mistake that for stupidity?

[The Dark Lord]

Dear Hippydude, Madusa, trans, chicken feet, and Wise Owl, thanks for the emoinal help I was crashing. You guys, plus a few other great chaps on TVF helped me quite a bit.

 

take the jealous bit. - in my mind ( for what that's worth) my Mrs tries to emulate those retards on the Channel 3 soaps that scream and throw temper tantrums like a spoiled 3 year old . Is this behaviour supposed to win us over, make us fall in love, think " this is the one for me for life"? 

 

I mean for Chrissake she is 57 years old and for the past 17 years has had to do nothing other than develop  an unusual obsession for looking beautiful and going shopping. 

 

Why throw that away based on a "she said" ( from a known liar ) monster hissy fit refusing to listen to her partner of 17 years who nursed her through some dreadful tantrums and foul accusations during her extended menaupause who took her from a crap job in a container terminal in Bangna and took her around the world pampering her even at channel in Paris? Is it because I am not thai or is it because I refuse to give her the backside smacking she should have got from her parents.?

 

one thing is for sure there are very few thai guys who would put up with that shit without doling out the odd black eye or two. 

 

Then there us the scary one of "If I can't have him, nobody can!" And that can take several routes none if which are very pleasant. 

 

Why do they self self destruct so effectively?

[transam]

1 minute ago, The Dark Lord said:

Dear Hippydude, Madusa, chicken feet, and Wise Owl, thanks for the emoinal help I was crashing. You guys, plus a few other great chaps on TVF helped me quite a bit.

 

take the jealous bit. - in my mind ( for what that's worth) my Mrs tries to emulate those retards on the Channel 3 soaps that scream and throw temper tantrums like a spoiled 3 year old . Is this behaviour supposed to win us over, make us fall in love, think " this is the one for me for life"? 

 

I mean for Chrissake she is 57 years old and for the past 17 years has had to do nothing other than develop  an unusual obsession for looking beautiful and going shopping. 

 

Why throw that away based on a she said ( from a known liar ) monster hissy fit refusing to listen to her partner of 17 years who nursed her through some dreadful tantrums and foul accusations during her extended menaupause who took her from a crap job in a container terminal in Bangna and took her around the world pampering her even at channel in Paris? Is it because I am not thai or is it because I refuse to give her the backside smacking she should have got from her parents.?

 

one thing is for sure there are very few thai guys who would put up with that shit without doling out the odd black eye or two. 

 

Then there us the scary one of "If I can't have him, nobody can!" And that can take several routes none if which are very pleasant. 

 

Why do they self self destruct so effectively?

Menopause...?

[The Dark Lord]

Just now, transam said:

Menopause...?

Yup, you know that hormone induced psychosis that turns a lamb into a rabid wolf...

 

but it still does does not excuse my dreadful spelling. 

 

I throw myself at your feet feet begging for forgiveness oh trans the great 

 

And I probably deserve the butt kick too.

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, The Dark Lord said:

Yup, you know that hormone induced psychosis that turns a lamb into a rabid wolf...

 

but it still does does not excuse my dreadful spelling. 

 

I throw myself at your feet feet begging for forgiveness oh trans the great 

 

And I probably deserve the butt kick too.

 

My ex UK wife was going through the menopause thing...In my case I could do nothing about it, absolutely nothing....We were two peas in a pod for over 20 years that went tits up  in a very short time to one pea and a ..............Take too long to post but she went from a gentle thing to being threatened imprisonment from a Judge...Me, my family, her family could not believe what happened to her......Past history now, but l witnessed it...

[The Dark Lord]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

My ex UK wife was going through the menopause thing...In my case I could do nothing about it, absolutely nothing....We were two peas in a pod for over 20 years that went tits up  in a very short time to one pea and a ..............Take too long to post but she went from a gentle thing to being threatened imprisonment from a Judge...Me, my family, her family could not believe what happened to her......Past history now, but l witnessed it...

Hi trans, I was reluctant to post it but mine called Plod and accused me of beating her ( never laid a hand) this was the day after me being released from hospital from a heart job. 

 

Plod ( uk Plod) were totally sympathetic to her even suggesting she went to stay with friends for a while ( at my cost) the friends refused to accept her so me in my stupid and sympathetic way seeing as nobody liked her any more, kept her at home. Result? I got to pay her fine for wasting plods time on scurrilous call outs. 

 

You know now I don't think it registered with her at all. 

 

It it worries me that she might try that crapola again here but with vastly different results. 

 

 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said:

Hi trans, I was reluctant to post it but mine called Plod and accused me of beating her ( never laid a hand) this was the day after being released from hospital from a heart job. 

 

Plod ( uk Plod) were totally sympathetic to her even suggesting she went to stay with friends for a while ( at my cost) the friends refused to accept her so me in my stupid and sympathetic way seeing as nobody liked her any more, kept her at home. Result? I got to pay her fine for wasting plods time on scurrilous call outs. 

 

You know now I don't think it registered with her at all. 

I know of a Thai bird in the UK that whacked her b/f over the head with a meat cleaver...He was hospitalised but lucky, she got a suspended prison sentence.................Not deported because she has a UK passport via her now divorced husband...