Filing a UK Self Assessment Tax Return online - issue!

[strikingsunset]

Hi,

First some background ,I  live most of the year in Asia ( mainly Thailand and China) and each year until now I have been able to file a UK self assessment tax return online via the government gateway website.

All has worked fine for many years, until last year when the Inland Revenue added a  further layer of security to the log in process where they send a code to ones nominated phone number to be entered as part of the log in process.

This was fine last year as I was in the UK on a holiday, notified them of my ( temporary) mobile phone number and filled in the return online while I was there.

 

So, to the ' here and now' ,this  year I am not going to England and my phone UK mobile number has lapsed, so it seems I am therefore stymied as I  haven't got the number to obtain/ access the code so cant therefore access the website.

 

I wanted to ask If anyone here has found a way round this issue,?  I thought as a last resort maybe I could get a paper tax return sent to me and return that by post even.

I was hoping to avoid a long winded phone call to the Inland revenue that could go in any direction and although I plan to go to England in May 2018 the deadline for the return is 31/01,as every year.

 

Just to add,, I am not trying to manipulate the system, I am below retirement age, not claiming any benefits and my tax affairs are mainly related to some modest rental income.

 

Thanks in advance of any knowledgeable responses 

 

 

[NanLaew]

Got anyone inn the UK that could get your UK mobile phone line reinstated or get a new one? Then enable roaming and get the SIM sent out here.

 

There's this where it appears to work in Thailand.

 

[sanemax]

I do know a tax guy back in the UK who can file your tax returns , he charges 85 quid and you just have to send him your details

[banK]

Why not get a Thai mobile - You will get the code sent to you - all withing 2 seconds.

 

banK

 

[NanLaew]

11 minutes ago, banK said:

Why not get a Thai mobile - You will get the code sent to you - all withing 2 seconds.

 

banK

 

Does the UK government gateway allow foreign mobile numbers to be used?

[banK]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

Does the UK government gateway allow foreign mobile numbers to be used?

Yes have been using it no prob.

[NanLaew]

4 minutes ago, banK said:

Yes have been using it no prob.

The OP is sorted then.

[banK]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

The OP is sorted then.

 

Looks like it.

 

banK

 

[OJAS]

7 hours ago, strikingsunset said:

I thought as a last resort maybe I could get a paper tax return sent to me and return that by post even.

You can download the necessary forms from https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-forms-and-helpsheets

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, banK said:

Why not get a Thai mobile - You will get the code sent to you - all withing 2 seconds.

 

banK

 

Can be hit and miss in my experience, though. HMRC informed me when I complained about this that it depends on the strength of your mobile signal (which seems to fluctuate constantly in my case for some reason) as to whether you actually receive an SMS with the code.

Edited July 5, 2017 by OJAS

[strikingsunset]

Hi, OP here ...

Thanks for all the really constructive  replies, I will call them and see if I can use my regular Thai or China mobile number to receive the SMS access code.

Failing that I will download the forms (Thanks for link)  and submit a paper return. Sorted ,one  way or the other.

Cheers,

OP   

[Mattd]

Can the OP use the Authenticator app? I and several others use this to access the GG sites, the code changes every few seconds, not sure how you would set it up initially though, being an existing user.

[topt]

4 hours ago, strikingsunset said:

Hi, OP here ...

Thanks for all the really constructive  replies, I will call them and see if I can use my regular Thai or China mobile number to receive the SMS access code.

Failing that I will download the forms (Thanks for link)  and submit a paper return. Sorted ,one  way or the other.

Cheers,

OP   

OP - I am surprised you were able to file a return online if you are declaring rental income as that part of the return (SA105) I thought was not available and had to be sent in by post - unless you are using some approved paid for commercial software?

 

By the way as others have said no problem now getting the Verify code on my Thai mobile number (12 Call). They only fixed it about 6 months ago however as before that it would not work.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, topt said:

OP - I am surprised you were able to file a return online if you are declaring rental income as that part of the return (SA105) I thought was not available and had to be sent in by post - unless you are using some approved paid for commercial software?

 

By the way as others have said no problem now getting the Verify code on my Thai mobile number (12 Call). They only fixed it about 6 months ago however as before that it would not work.

I do my tax return on line every year including my rental property, never a problem.

[topt]

Just now, vogie said:

I do my tax return on line every year including my rental property, never a problem.

But do you use some approved software or is SA105 now available as part of the standard online input?

[vogie]

13 minutes ago, topt said:

But do you use some approved software or is SA105 now available as part of the standard online input?

No I don't use anything, other than the Govs own website.

[topt]

37 minutes ago, vogie said:

No I don't use anything, other than the Govs own website.

Maybe it is because I am non resident for tax - and presumably then you are not? Otherwise I am very confused but that is easy with tax forms

https://www.gov.uk/tax-uk-income-live-abroad/rent

Filling in your tax return

You need to declare your rental income in a Self Assessment tax return unless HMRC tells you not to.

You can’t use HMRC’s online services. Instead, you need to:

• send your tax return by post
• use software
• get help from a professional, like an accountant

You need to complete the ‘residence’ section (form SA109 if you’re sending it by post) and the ‘property’ section (form SA105).

[vogie]

11 minutes ago, topt said:

Maybe it is because I am non resident for tax - and presumably then you are not? Otherwise I am very confused but that is easy with tax forms

https://www.gov.uk/tax-uk-income-live-abroad/rent

Filling in your tax return

You need to declare your rental income in a Self Assessment tax return unless HMRC tells you not to.

You can’t use HMRC’s online services. Instead, you need to:

• send your tax return by post
• use software
• get help from a professional, like an accountant

You need to complete the ‘residence’ section (form SA109 if you’re sending it by post) and the ‘property’ section (form SA105).

When you say "I am a non resident" do you mean in the UK? If so I too am a non resident, I have not lived in the UK for nearly 10 years now, I have no addresses in the UK apart from the house I rent. The tax people, my bank etc know I'm a full time resident in Thailand and indeed have my Thai address.

You know you have to register with them and they give you a unique number, when I log into their site they immediately send me a text with a log in number, within seconds.

[topt]

9 minutes ago, vogie said:

When you say "I am a non resident" do you mean in the UK? If so I too am a non resident, I have not lived in the UK for nearly 10 years now, I have no addresses in the UK apart from the house I rent. The tax people, my bank etc know I'm a full time resident in Thailand and indeed have my Thai address.

You know you have to register with them and they give you a unique number, when I log into their site they immediately send me a text with a log in number, within seconds.

Yes I have all that. The reason I am querying your statements is that I am just trying to see if I can submit online in future (other than paying for some approved software) because it is a pain filling in paper and having to post. According to the link I quoted that is not possible and that was what I encountered when I first attempted it online a few years ago. If you have a loophole then I was hoping I may be able to exploit it

[vogie]

43 minutes ago, topt said:

Yes I have all that. The reason I am querying your statements is that I am just trying to see if I can submit online in future (other than paying for some approved software) because it is a pain filling in paper and having to post. According to the link I quoted that is not possible and that was what I encountered when I first attempted it online a few years ago. If you have a loophole then I was hoping I may be able to exploit it

No, I have no loophole, I just log into their website and fill in my tax return, I've never ever encountered any problems.

 

This is what they send me.

 

 

GOV.UK

HM Revenue & Customs

Your Annual Tax Summary is ready Dear v Thank you for completing your Self Assessment tax return. Your annual tax summary is now online. It shows ‎how much tax and National Insurance you have paid and how Government spends it. You can find the summary by signing into your tax account, looking in the self assessment section and selecting 'find out how your tax is spent'. Tax summaries are for information only so there's no need to take any further action. Ruth Owen Director General, HMRC Customer Services

To manage your paperless notifications - sign in to your HMRC online account.  If you’re unsure an email is from HMRC: Do not reply to it or click on any links Report the suspicious email to HMRC - to find out how, go to GOV.UK and search for 'Avoid and report internet scams and phishing'

 

 

Edited July 6, 2017 by vogie

[OJAS]

Erroneous post

Edited July 8, 2017 by OJAS

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Erroneous post

Is that remark directed at me?

[OJAS]

Just now, vogie said:

Is that remark directed at me?

No, apologies to you and topf if you have been alerted to it. In the original unedited version I was making the SA109 point which I see that topf had already made - and not casting any aspersions about what you and he had said! However, I am prompted, given your (non-)residency comment in post #18, to enquire as to how you have managed to provide the info sought in the SA109 form in your online return without the assistance of approved commercial software (in particular boxes 1, 9, 10, 16, 17 & 40 which I complete as necessary in my paper returns).

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/self-assessment-residence-remittance-basis-etc-sa109

 

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, OJAS said:

No, apologies to you and topf if you have been alerted to it. In the original unedited version I was making the SA109 point which I see that topf had already made - and not casting any aspersions about what you and he had said! However, I am prompted, given your (non-)residency comment in post #18, to enquire as to how you have managed to provide the info sought in the SA109 form in your online return without the assistance of approved commercial software (in particular boxes 1, 9, 10, 16, 17 & 40 which I complete as necessary in my paper returns).

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/self-assessment-residence-remittance-basis-etc-sa109

 

Originaly your post 'quoted me' that is why I asked.

 

Because I have never used "approved software" only as I have said before the on-line software that is on the govs website. I can assure you and anyone else who may doubt what I have said, that everything I have said is truthful and I was merely trying to be helpful, I wish I had never bothered now.

I have just logged on and your link bears no resemblance to the form I fill in on line?

[topt]

38 minutes ago, OJAS said:

No, apologies to you and topf if you have been alerted to it. In the original unedited version I was making the SA109 point which I see that topf had already made - and not casting any aspersions about what you and he had said! However, I am prompted, given your (non-)residency comment in post #18, to enquire as to how you have managed to provide the info sought in the SA109 form in your online return without the assistance of approved commercial software (in particular boxes 1, 9, 10, 16, 17 & 40 which I complete as necessary in my paper returns).

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/self-assessment-residence-remittance-basis-etc-sa109

 

This was my point and I am wondering if Vogie actually completes form SA109 and SA105 or just includes his rental income/profit in the standard UK return available online?

 

1 minute ago, vogie said:

I have just logged on and your link bears no resemblance to the form I fill in on line?

Sorry Vogie looks like you half answered - is SA105 available online to complete for you?

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/604310/sa105-2017.pdf

 

From memory only the standard SA100 is available in the way you say

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/604368/SA100_2017.pdf

 

Neither of us is having a go but as mentioned just trying to clarify if there is a way to do this "properly" as I have not been able to - and neither has OJAS by the looks of things.

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, topt said:

This was my point and I am wondering if Vogie actually completes form SA109 and SA105 or just includes his rental income/profit in the standard UK return available online?

 

Sorry Vogie looks like you half answered - is SA105 available online to complete for you?

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/604310/sa105-2017.pdf

 

From memory only the standard SA100 is available in the way you say

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/604368/SA100_2017.pdf

 

Neither of us is having a go but as mentioned just trying to clarify if there is a way to do this "properly" as I have not been able to - and neither has OJAS by the looks of things.

I am far from being an accountant, my skills are with my hands and not the old grey matter, but I have had no trouble for going on 10 years now filing my tax return on-line, 5 years in France and 4 years here.

But when it was said that my postings are erroneous, it did get my hackles up a tad, I have no reason to give false info or lie.

If I can help, I will be more than willing.

[topt]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

I am far from being an accountant, my skills are with my hands and not the old grey matter, but I have had no trouble for going on 10 years now filing my tax return on-line, 5 years in France and 4 years here.

But when it was said that my postings are erroneous, it did get my hackles up a tad, I have no reason to give false info or lie.

If I can help, I will be more than willing.

Nobody (I don't think) is saying or even suggesting that. How, and in this case, what you decide to submit is obviously up to you but what I have been trying to find out is how you can submit the extra pages online that, in our position, I (and presumably OJAS)  currently complete a paper return for and specifically the property rental earnings.

 

You have already confirmed you do not complete a SA109 but what about the specific property pages SA105 (link in my previous post). If not can you tell us where  you declare your property earnings/profit and that should put this discussion to bed? 

(Form SA100 is I think the form available to complete online)

 

[KittenKong]

SA109 cannot be completed online. But if you have limited rental income (or other taxable earned income) and not much else then there probably isnt much point completing it anyway.

 

I complete it because all my UK income is tax-free under the non-resident concession but I do need to confirm this via the SA109. If I didnt complete the SA109 I would be taxed quite heavily. So I have to complete the paper form.

 

Personally I think that deliberately excluding SA109 from the online submission service is daft and pointless (it's basically just a dozen or so tick-boxes and so is ideally suited to being done online), but since when did any bureaucracy use brains?

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, topt said:

Nobody (I don't think) is saying or even suggesting that. How, and in this case, what you decide to submit is obviously up to you but what I have been trying to find out is how you can submit the extra pages online that, in our position, I (and presumably OJAS)  currently complete a paper return for and specifically the property rental earnings.

 

You have already confirmed you do not complete a SA109 but what about the specific property pages SA105 (link in my previous post). If not can you tell us where  you declare your property earnings/profit and that should put this discussion to bed? 

(Form SA100 is I think the form available to complete online)

 

I enclose a photo of the relevant page, this I hope should clear up the topic, there are extra pages included with the software, but in all honesty it is just a continuation of the form. Anything else you need to know, I'll help if I can.

[topt]

27 minutes ago, vogie said:

I enclose a photo of the relevant page, this I hope should clear up the topic, there are extra pages included with the software, but in all honesty it is just a continuation of the form. Anything else you need to know, I'll help if I can.

Yes but where do you enter the £££££ earnings - Page TR 3 - Supplementary Income......?