Teacher Candidates Demand English Requirements Be Reduced

[DavisH]

8 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

"The position requires a score of 400 out of 990 for TOEIC, 3.5 out of 9 for the International English Language Testing System, or IELTS, or 40 out of 120 for the Test of English as a Foreign Language Internet-Based Test, or TOEFL"

 

Hardly challenging. 

One of my 10th grade students just got 6.5 IELTS last term without breaking a sweat or preparation. She isn't destined to be a teacher though:) 

[rkidlad]

17 minutes ago, trainman34014 said:

Lets face it; many Thai's can't even read or speak their own language properly !

That's something I noticed the more I learnt Thai. Noticing people speak to security guards and taxi drivers, etc and walking away not understanding what the conversation was about. They smiled and nodded like they did. If i asked them what the conversation was about, they'd aloofly answer "mai roo" without any curiosity or bafflement at all. 

[robsamui]

8 minutes ago, Jeremy50 said:

Well, let's be blunt, she's probably is not going to learn well spoken, or well written English from you, so the local schools is still probably her best bet.  It was decided many years ago that English would be the common language  for ASEAN nations, but perhaps that information just passed you by.

erm - it passed the Thai Nation by . . . even today few Thai people see any practical value in learning English, as witnessed by this original post..

 

And those that do want to learn English have to suffer teachers who can't speak English.

[Cadbury]

27 minutes ago, Tilacme said:

eI applaud any initiative to broaden the English language.

Hope you are not applauding the American version of the English language.? My ex gf was a Thai English teacher at a vocational school in BKK. She told me how the farang English teachers were sacked and replaced with Filipino so called "English" teachers who could  only speak and spell the American bastardised version of the English language.

Why were the farang teachers sacked you may ask? Answer; so the directors of the school would receive commissions from the Thai filipinos employment agency!

Thai corruption at it's best and worst. Thailand ultimately pays for the consequences of it's own corruption. But Thai corruptors are not interested in any of that.

[mok199]

i have lost all hope in this country...for those of us that have children in the system....don't rely on the teachers,take time and teach your children after classes and week ends ,make it fun and have ''English only days''with prizes and new toys, have only engish programs on the coms and phones.AND DONT LET YOUR WIFES FAMIILT AND FREINDS BRAINWASH THEM TO TO BAD.THIS COUNTRY IS SO FAR BEHIND THE PACK IT REALLY BELIEVES IT IS COMING IN FIRST.,my boy is 3 and I have made many enimies around my home ,I refuse to allow thais to use ''ahhhh ''when he says something correct and ''AHHHH'' when he says some thing wrong.or is it the other way around    .we have words in English for yes and no they are ''yes '' and ''no'' is that so difficult to say ...I have also been corrected by said thais..apparently have been  pronouncing a few English words wrong for 60 years now..''apple'' is appenn..''burger'' is burgerrrrrrrr...''central''  is centrannn....to name a few.

[Prairieboy]

1 hour ago, tartempion said:

Still have not met the only English knowledgeable teacher or person in my daughters school. All other personal in that school does not understand a single English word.
She does get one (1) hour of English though. Why would Thai teachers need English anyway? There is no use/need for English in this country.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

Knowing English broadens their horizons, enables them to learn about the rest of the world (without a slanted Thai commentary), opens the door to many additional employment opportunities throughout the ASEAN countries and around the world.  

 

 

 

 

 

[YetAnother]

this is just so so perfect; if anyone had any doubts as to why thailand will never advance, this article should help to put those questions to rest

[DavisH]

13 minutes ago, mok199 said:

i have lost all hope in this country...for those of us that have children in the system....don't rely on the teachers,take time and teach your children after classes and week ends ,make it fun and have ''English only days''with prizes and new toys, have only engish programs on the coms and phones.AND DONT LET YOUR WIFES FAMIILT AND FREINDS BRAINWASH THEM TO TO BAD.THIS COUNTRY IS SO FAR BEHIND THE PACK IT REALLY BELIEVES IT IS COMING IN FIRST.,my boy is 3 and I have made many enimies around my home ,I refuse to allow thais to use ''ahhhh ''when he says something correct and ''AHHHH'' when he says some thing wrong.or is it the other way around    .we have words in English for yes and no they are ''yes '' and ''no'' is that so difficult to say ...I have also been corrected by said thais..apparently have been  pronouncing a few English words wrong for 60 years now..''apple'' is appenn..''burger'' is burgerrrrrrrr...''central''  is centrannn....to name a few.

Your child will learn both languages easily in a bilingual environment. I only speak english to my son, and my wife will use both. He is 14 y.o and in an english program. Right now he is watching some silly youtube videos (in english), rather than doing his homework...but he said he'd do it...eventually:) Of course his Thai is stronger as he uses / hears it more often. But he does have very strong english language skills and a somewhat colourful language....wonder where he got that from!

Edited July 6, 2017 by DavisH

[mok199]

1 minute ago, DavisH said:

Your child will learn both languages easily in a bilingual environment. I only speak english to my son, and my wife will use both. He is 14 y.o and in an english program. Right now he is watching some silly youtube videos (in english), rather than doing his homework...but he said he'd do it...eventually:) Of course is Thai is stronger as he uses / hears it more often. But he does have very strong english language skills and a somewhat colourful language....wonder where he got that from!

i want my boy to speak thai i am proud he is 49% thai haha.,but i know the system and i am also ,out numbered with my wifes familly and freinds so i insist we ''over compinsate''using english more than thai,knowing he is bombarded with thai all day...

[Tilacme]

35 minutes ago, Cadbury said:

Hope you are not applauding the American version of the English language.? My ex gf was a Thai English teacher at a vocational school in BKK. She told me how the farang English teachers were sacked and replaced with Filipino so called "English" teachers who could  only speak and spell the American bastardised version of the English language.

Why were the farang teachers sacked you may ask? Answer; so the directors of the school would receive commissions from the Thai filipinos employment agency!

Thai corruption at it's best and worst. Thailand ultimately pays for the consequences of it's own corruption. But Thai corruptors are not interested in any of that.

I agree that it is a travesty for a hard working Thai student to be taught American English, makes me weep.

[DavisH]

9 minutes ago, mok199 said:

i want my boy to speak thai i am proud he is 49% thai haha.,but i know the system and i am also ,out numbered with my wifes familly and freinds so i insist we ''over compinsate''using english more than thai,knowing he is bombarded with thai all day...

How old is your son? Exposure is important, especially at a young age. Grt lots of books and read together each night. Watch lots of english language shows. They get used to using english and will not be shy to use it in public. 

[Cadbury]

3 minutes ago, Tilacme said:

I agree that it is a travesty for a hard working Thai student to be taught American English, makes me weep.

It makes me weep also that spellcheckers are the same bastardised American English. Pox on the Americans for stuffing up a perfectly good language.

[SABloke]

2 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

It's mostly grammar that English natives could not pass so they have a point, you can read and speak English very well and still fail this test

Have you taken the test? I have and I found it to be more practical than the IELTS or TOEFL tests in terms of  testing communication skills (which is why companies ask for TOEIC and universities ask for IELTS/TOEFL). Half the test is a listening component and tests whether one can follow the speaker's intent. The other half is reading and writing of which perhaps 30% contains grammar questions. One could easily fail every single grammar question and still score 700 in the test.

[Slip]

19 minutes ago, Tilacme said:

I agree that it is a travesty for a hard working Thai student to be taught American English, makes me weep.

Hey now.  There is nothing wrong with English Lite. EDIT- sorry meant to quote Cadbury here:

 

12 minutes ago, Cadbury said:

It makes me weep also that spellcheckers are the same bastardised American English. Pox on the Americans for stuffing up a perfectly good language.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Slip

[mok199]

17 minutes ago, Tilacme said:

I agree that it is a travesty for a hard working Thai student to be taught American English, makes me weep.

i have a female vietnamize friend she teaches English ho chi minh city, in elementary level,she has been instructed to omit and hold back certain lessons .and offers her students ''tutoring lessons''weekends and after school to compensate for her low low salary..

[Thai Ron]

2 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I am yet to meet a local Government school teacher who can actually speak good English, or a non farang student from a Government school that can either. Lowering the criteria is not going to improve the situation. The best teachers of any language are of course native speakers, but schools here are not prepared to either pay for them, or give the work permits. Thailand is not investing properly in their children's future, unlike Cambodia, where the kids even at 10, speak English well.

Chicken and egg situation.

What came first - shit teachers or shit pay?

I think shit teachers.

Most NES TEFL teachers I've met are borderline illiterate.

Crap spelling, dreadful grammar.

[KhaoNiaw]

Foreign parents with Thai children don't need to do anything at first except speak their own first language to their children. Watch TV with them, especially read to them etc. The children will easily become bilingual but they will need to put the work in to get their reading and writing skills up to scratch as they get older.

 

But for most Thai kids, there's really no need to start English as early as they do. Much better to let them expand and develop their own language first. As many here are pointing out, even that's not a given in Thailand. If you're struggling in your first language, then starting a second language too early is going to be damaging. There isn't any research to show that starting to learn a second language at the earliest possible age is beneficial. If they had qualified, effective teachers with proper resources, starting in secondary school would produce much better results than are achieved at the moment.  

[KKr]

lost for words...

[Tilacme]

6 minutes ago, Slip said:

Hey now.  There is nothing wrong with English Lite. EDIT- sorry meant to quote Cadbury here:

 

You should have stayed quiet, it looked like a witty post.

[The Deerhunter]

2 hours ago, Mister Fixit said:

Christ, the current level is only a 400 score  TOEIC??!!    From a total of 990??  That is pretty well elementary or pre-intermediate 1 level.

 

And they want to reduce it to 250, which is beginner level?  

 

I thought it couldn't get any worse already, but obviously they prefer the very lowest common denominator.  

Most Thai English teachers I have met do not do not speak it well enough to have any conversation with.

[brizz]

2 hours ago, trainman34014 said:

Lets face it; many Thai's can't even read or speak their own language properly !

Is this the place where someone points out that it should be "Let's" and "Thais"?

[Cadbury]

20 minutes ago, Thai Ron said:

Chicken and egg situation.

What came first - shit teachers or shit pay?

I think shit teachers.

Most NES TEFL teachers I've met are borderline illiterate.

Crap spelling, dreadful grammar.

You are a touch of class with your English grammar Thai Ron. Great to see you can spell complex four letter words like "shit" and "crap" so well. 10/10 for pathetic crudity is the best result you get.

I think it is bedtime for you Ron.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Cadbury

[robsamui]

2 hours ago, observer90210 said:

Teaching is a science in itself...you can be fluent, highly cultivated in the language of Shakespeare, but remain an utter dud to teach!

 

Proper access to quality education is a solid investment for the future generations, as knowledge is power.

 

It needs to be dispensed by fully qualified and educated professionals....free for anybody to lower the standards, but ultimately the whole country would suffer with inadequate prepartion in a very challenging world.

Sorry, but when teaching tries to be a science, it then loses all the empathy, sensitivity, spontaneity and the ability of a teacher to adjust to the needs of the moment, the class or the individual - just take a look at the state of education in England with the current National Curriculum.

There is an art to being an effective teacher - and I believe this is what you mean by your reference to Shakespeare. Unlike science, this art cannot be taught, it can only be stimulated and developed, in much the same way as a portrait artist can learn technique but still produce lifeless paintings.

 

The rest of what you say is good enough ;-)

Edited July 6, 2017 by robsamui

[observer90210]

17 minutes ago, robsamui said:

Sorry, but when teaching tries to be a science, it then loses all the empathy, sensitivity, spontaneity and the ability of a teacher to adjust to the needs of the moment, the class or the individual - just take a look at the state of education in England with the current National Curriculum.

There is an art to being an effective teacher - and I believe this is what you mean by your reference to Shakespeare. Unlike science, this art cannot be taught, it can only be stimulated and developed, in much the same way as a portrait artist can learn technique but still produce lifeless paintings.

 

The rest of what you say is good enough ;-)

I'm sure you understood what I initially meant!!......

 

Kindl do not forget that in science, without sensitivity, curiosity and all the rest that makes a human being...it's useless!!..so I cannot really agree with you on a stone cold image one may give towards the scientific communities...

Edited July 6, 2017 by observer90210

[thequietman]

1 hour ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Foreign parents with Thai children don't need to do anything at first except speak their own first language to their children. Watch TV with them, especially read to them etc. The children will easily become bilingual but they will need to put the work in to get their reading and writing skills up to scratch as they get older.

 

But for most Thai kids, there's really no need to start English as early as they do. Much better to let them expand and develop their own language first. As many here are pointing out, even that's not a given in Thailand. If you're struggling in your first language, then starting a second language too early is going to be damaging. There isn't any research to show that starting to learn a second language at the earliest possible age is beneficial. If they had qualified, effective teachers with proper resources, starting in secondary school would produce much better results than are achieved at the moment.  

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationopinion/11151726/Children-should-start-learning-languages-at-age-three.html

[KhaoNiaw]

16 minutes ago, thequietman said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationopinion/11151726/Children-should-start-learning-languages-at-age-three.html

That would be fine if that was how it was done. But basically, class and money determine how successful language learning is going to be. So for most Thais it's hardly going to pan out like foreign language teaching in a Telegraph article. I'm not opposed to that though, simply that it's not going to happen in Thailand. 

 

In return I'll suggest this: https://research-repository.griffith.edu.au/bitstream/handle/10072/42297/73943_1.pdf

In particular the final section  5. The multilingual model of ELT

Though I'd go for some of Kirkpatrick's later work for further research references and development of the ideas. 

[Machiavelli]

4 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I am yet to meet a local Government school teacher who can actually speak good English, or a non farang student from a Government school that can either. Lowering the criteria is not going to improve the situation. The best teachers of any language are of course native speakers, but schools here are not prepared to either pay for them, or give the work permits. Thailand is not investing properly in their children's future, unlike Cambodia, where the kids even at 10, speak English well.

So called "native English speakers" have had a go at teaching English in this country for over 50 years. Zilch results. I would say they are the problem! 

[Machiavelli]

3 hours ago, KhaoNiaw said:

I would challenge you to find a single piece of research that reaches that conclusion, especially in the case of English.

 

Thai teachers of English are actually the solution. I could introduce you to several who speak English very well, three with TOEIC scores over 850, and two with master's degrees from good UK universities. The problem is that teachers anything like this are few and far between. They are not targeted for recruitment and the pay and conditions are unlikely to attract this type of graduate who could make a better living and career doing something else. Until that changes they're stuck with the current situation. 

Finally someone with a brain turned up.Thank God. 

[NCC1701A]

don't worry, the girls will learn to speak English in bars for years to come.

[Kasset Tak]

I have students that have passed TOEIC with scores in the 500-600 range while the highest score among the Thais teaching English here in the college was 350 when they had to take the TOEIC last year, all 3 Thai teachers have master degrees in teaching English!!!
And before any grammar police starts barking... I am not an English teacher, I teach agricultural subjects in English, mostly animal husbandry and the class I will have tomorrow morning is about the anatomy of poultry.