Teacher Candidates Demand English Requirements Be Reduced

[Thai Ron]

2 hours ago, Cadbury said:

Good to see you are out of bed nice and early. This language might pass as everyday talk in your local bar Ron and that's fine by me. I use it myself from time to time in private conversation. But I see profanity passing as forum "talk" as a puerile way to make a point.

Anyway I was commenting on your ability to spell those words correctly which you did and for that I give you and elephant stamp.

Zzzzz

[Machiavelli]

5 hours ago, thequietman said:

Quite untrue. Get into the system and you will find out why. From the outside, you have no way of knowing the nonsense and red tape that occurs.

Is that a round about way of saying your want 50 more years to get it right? 

[connda]

These people don't need English and their time would be better spent learning readin', writin', and 'rithmetic well enough to be able to teach it.   English majors who want to teach, on the other hand, should be held to fluency requirements.  

[aussie11950]

Foreign parents with Thai children don't need to do anything at first except speak their own first language to their children. Watch TV with them, especially read to them etc. The children will easily become bilingual but they will need to put the work in to get their reading and writing skills up to scratch as they get older.
 
But for most Thai kids, there's really no need to start English as early as they do. Much better to let them expand and develop their own language first. As many here are pointing out, even that's not a given in Thailand. If you're struggling in your first language, then starting a second language too early is going to be damaging. There isn't any research to show that starting to learn a second language at the earliest possible age is beneficial. If they had qualified, effective teachers with proper resources, starting in secondary school would produce much better results than are achieved at the moment.  

Look harder
It's never too early to learn a second language.



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[KhaoNiaw]

8 minutes ago, aussie11950 said:

 

 

Look harder
It's never too early to learn a second language.



Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

It's something I've looked at in quite a lot of depth. And I agree with you,  under the right conditions.

But there is also research showing that there are no particular benefits to be gained and even potential damage to children's overall education if English is introduced as a foreign language at a very early age in less than ideal conditions. I'll dig some references out for you if you're interested.

Edited July 7, 2017 by KhaoNiaw

[aussie11950]

This is just not true.
Thailand does invest very heavily in education but given the corruption that runs through everything, most of the money is filtered off before it reaches expenditure on much of benefit to the kids. Add that to the mindset that English really doesn't matter and anything Thai is the only thing a human needs and you end up exactly as expected which is where Thai land's education is.
Singapore realised the importance of English a long time ago. It is not just being able to be understood by a large part of the trading civilised world but more importantly changes the way you think. Thai language is not suited to commerce or to law because it has always been centred around the basic needs of villagers and has just not developed sufficiently to be efficient in commerce. English (and French, German and Spanish) are languages that have developed around commerce and are much more specific in firm compared to Thai which centres around the more general form.  This rarely communicate specifically eg, Thai maybe - Where have you been? A. To buy something English - Where have you been? A. To the supermarket to get some eggs.
 
If you have lived here a while you will understand my point. Thais do not like to tell you much that is really to the point and think that way. They live their lives not early understanding much detail about anything. Maybe it is a good way to live but it is counterproductive in business and law.

I must agree.
Thai conversation often misses the subject, because it's usually understood.
But English always contain a subject.


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[thequietman]

1 minute ago, Machiavelli said:

Is that a round about way of saying your want 50 more years to get it right? 

OK Richard, let me explain it to you. Each class gets 50 minutes a week with the NES. Average class size is around 40. Students are always late to class, so minimum 10 minutes is lost. So, 40 minutes for 40 students. That's 1 minute per student. 4 minutes a month per student multiplied by 9 months. (school is closed for at least 3 months for hols and nonsense.) So, we are left with 36 minutes a year of English for each student with a NES.

 

Now, that's the best case scenario. Add in scout camp, sports day, Teachers Day, To Be Number 1 day, getting read for Songkran, Buddha day, the big mans birthday and on an on it goes ad infinitude.

 

NOW! Thai/English teacher gets the students for much more time, teaches only grammar, can't complete a full sentence, pronunciation completely wrong and on and on it goes.

 

Why don't you say something about it then, I hear you say. Well if you show concern for the curriculum, try to make small changes, point out serious flaws ........... then you sir, are labelled a trouble maker, not one of the group and are duly shunned. No renewal of contract for you next year.

 

This is but a smidgen of what involves being an English teacher in this massively broken system. It is NOT the  foreign teachers fault, trust me. 

[todlad]

27 minutes ago, aussie11950 said:

 

 

Look harder
It's never too early to learn a second language.



Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

Agreed and here is the news, there are many studies relating to brain development by bi and multilingual children.

 

My daughter is being brought up here as if with two native languages even though a doctor told us it would confuse her. Daughter 2 Doctor 0

[MarcelV]

Is anyone here actually a teacher in Thailand? Do you know about actual teaching at Thai schools, the curriculum, the students' attitudes etc. from a teacher's perspective? I got the impression that most of what I'm reading written by foreigners is more hearsay than practical knowledge of the matter.

Edited July 7, 2017 by MarcelV

[saminoz]

2 minutes ago, todlad said:

Agreed and here is the news, there are many studies relating to brain development by bi and multilingual children.

 

My daughter is being brought up here as if with two native languages even though a doctor told us it would confuse her. Daughter 2 Doctor 0

I work in Africa, so am not at home in Thailand as much as I'd like, and my Thai wife does most of the bringing up of my two daughters.  My oldest (nearly 7) is fluent in English and Thai (very good for her age) and her Mum speaks equally in English and Thai to both girls (the youngest is 18 months).

This has had a dramatic effect on my wife's English speaking and comprehension as well.

[JAG]

Is anyone here actually a teacher in Thailand? Do you know about actual teaching at Thai schools, the curriculum, the students' attitudes etc. from a teacher's perspective? I got the impression that most of what I'm reading written by foreigners is more hearsay than practical knowledge of the matter.

A few of us are, but there are also quite a lot of experts who have all the answers to the problems.

 

Many years ago, in a distant place, I remember being told that an "ex" is a "has been" and a "spurt" is what happens when you put a drip under pressure...

:)

 

[DLang]

How anybody with any bit of intelligence can study a language for 16 years from 6 years of age to 22 years of age, and not be almost fluent really is confuddling. 

[Megasin1]

Thai ruk Thai. Yes, most definitely in this case. My daughter is fortunate to be half English so I have just rescued her from the Thai education system and she is now thriving in an English Primary School. The issue here is most definitely a Thai issue. The Sabai Sabai, or laissez faire approach to life is so genetically implanted that they can't break the cycle even for the sake of their own kids future. There is no future for you when you are relentlessly sent to extra classes where you learn exactly the same as you are learning in school, nothing. Their childs development is on the same level as their latest pick-up. "Oh look, I'm better than you because my child doesn't have a childhood, developing social skills, my child goes to many, many pointless extra classes"

Oh, there are some good teachers out there for sure, banging their heads against the wall of resistance, but if your parents don't encourage you as a child, by speaking other languages in the house, the schools don't care about their own quality of teaching and the Government is a pastiche parody of concern then the best advice is to invest in a good sun hat to aid you in your future rice picking career. If you pay peanuts you will get lingue, the problem is that although monkeys are good at mimicking and can use basic tools you don't see many at Harvard or Oxford. God bless them, its their issue and I do so enjoy a good quality rice.

[digger70]

This is going to be good.the way they teach english now .the pupils can't speak understandable english.If they lower the Teachers standard they may as well stop teaching english as one wouldn't be able to understand a word they are saying.

[FredNL]

3 hours ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Those tests are not pass or fail. That's not what they're designed for. Those scores may be perfectly adequate for certain contexts. You're displaying your own ignorance.
Your post --> You FAIL

So, what was your score on the tests?

How many grammatical errors are there in your post?

[robsamui]

On 7/6/2017 at 3:26 PM, observer90210 said:

I'm sure you understood what I initially meant!!......

 

Kindl do not forget that in science, without sensitivity, curiosity and all the rest that makes a human being...it's useless!!..so I cannot really agree with you on a stone cold image one may give towards the scientific communities...

Spoken s a true scientist, as opposed to a true teacher of science!

[todlad]

6 minutes ago, saminoz said:

I work in Africa, so am not at home in Thailand as much as I'd like, and my Thai wife does most of the bringing up of my two daughters.  My oldest (nearly 7) is fluent in English and Thai (very good for her age) and her Mum speaks equally in English and Thai to both girls (the youngest is 18 months).

This has had a dramatic effect on my wife's English speaking and comprehension as well.

Good to see. Mrs T is Thai and speaks English pretty well so that helps.

 

We moved away from the in laws who made it their business to ram Thai down my daughter's throat: I caught the MIL repeating over and over the Thai word for granny ... daughter = 9 months old!!! And so it went. There is more balance now and at two years old she is on track to join your children in their fluency!

[Baerboxer]

22 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

It's mostly grammar that English natives could not pass so they have a point, you can read and speak English very well and still fail this test

 

But Teachers teaching English are required to teach grammar. And an understanding of grammar is required to explain the language constructs and nuances.

 

These are teachers not TEFL jokers hoping to earn a few bob beer money.

 

Some of these children may wish to further there education internationally or develop careers with international organizations. The ability to write as well as speak correctly is important to their future.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Baerboxer

[cracker1]

For many years all schools in Thailand have been teaching English Language, but a search staff who can speak or understand it at Tesco, Big C Home Pro or any of the larger employers that use younger people (not long out of school) will show that the teaching system has failed !

Is that because the teachers are not trained to a high enough standard ?

I think so.

[madusa]

22 hours ago, tartempion said:

Still have not met the only English knowledgeable teacher or person in my daughters school. All other personal in that school does not understand a single English word.
She does get one (1) hour of English though. Why would Thai teachers need English anyway? There is no use/need for English in this country.


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Everybody will be happy to do away with English classes or English language itself. I am going to write a small book called "The Tyranny of the English Language" , may be Penguin Publishing Agent will be interested because this small little book explain how the English Language is putting a stranglehold on many countries. When this book translated into French appear in France it will be best seller because French being allergic to anything English think English Language is a tyranny it has taken over the whole world. The one billion population in China is studying English not french so the french see their language being side step or even abandoned. This what the English language is doing, a tyranny, it creeps into the pure beautiful french language, muddle it and making it sound Franglish, that is a no, no, for the nationalistic french. The french will not accept it laying down. They have an academy called, "Academie Francaise" , this institution with elected senior members dressed up like duke of the 17th century carry ceremony swords during the annual meeting.

They came up with french words to replace the English words being used currently and encourage the French to use them. Example : english word "Weekend" to be thrown out the window and replace with "Fin de la semaine" pure beautiful french words.

Now Thailand is suffering from the same malady, they don't want to study English but they must because they need it in commerce and many other scientific works reports, etc., So they know the English has a stranglehold on their throat.

When will the English language declines like Latin or Arabic?  Latin and Arabic were languages once spoken widely in Europe and the middle east until it declined and disappeared altogether.

[Megasin1]

I have to admit that this has been a most interesting and amusing thread with contributors fighting each other without a care for spelling or grammar. It's actually a renewal in faith in people that they become impassioned to the point of disregard when a discussion arises about education.

Alas, the lowering of any standards is never a good thing in the long run and you would always hope that standards rise and as they do, people raise their level to meet the new standards.

Whenever I see standards dropping in any walk of life, especially education, I am saddened as these people clamouring for an easy life will invariably affect many innocents whom have had no choice in the matter.

Fight the good fight and when you can't win do the right thing and remove your own children from the battlefield.

If a Thai truly believes that Thais only need Thai to progress on the world stage and become an active member of the global community then its probably just best to smile and say "up to you", or for their benefit "แล้วแต่คุณ"

[Megasin1]

9 minutes ago, madusa said:

Everybody will be happy to do away with English classes or English language itself. I am going to write a small book called "The Tyranny of the English Language" , may be Penguin Publishing Agent will be interested because this small little book explain how the English Language is putting a stranglehold on many countries. When this book translated into French appear in France it will be best seller because French

Unfortunately if in French it will not be a best seller, as you are limiting potential sales, also I don't believe it's possible for a language to be tyrannical by definition, however I do wish you the best luck in your venture.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Megasin1

[1SteveC]

5 hours ago, Jonnapat said:

Without a doubt the worst English-speaking country in SE Asia.

 

You really should check your facts first ! There are 16 countries in Asia with a lower rating and 2 countries in ASEAN with a lower rating.

 

http://www.ef.co.th/epi/

 

 

[1SteveC]

5 hours ago, JAG said:

Granted you dont need to know all the ins and outs of adverbs of frequency in the passive voice, ( just as well really because few of us do), but to use the language effectively you need to understand verbs nouns and adjectives.

 

Confused a little, can you explain or give example of how an adverb of frequency changes when going from the active to the passive voice ?

[1SteveC]

4 hours ago, todlad said:

The biggest problem i hear from Thai speakers of English: the verb to be.  Second problem is word endings: they chop them off.

 

2 things; the verb is "be" not "to be" and secondly "they" do not chop off word endings, "they" often fail to pronounce a final consonant, (totally different).

[Ivor Edwards]

23 hours ago, tartempion said:

Still have not met the only English knowledgeable teacher or person in my daughters school. All other personal in that school does not understand a single English word.
She does get one (1) hour of English though. Why would Thai teachers need English anyway? There is no use/need for English in this country.


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And they will believe that until they finally turn out the lights. Then they'll be down the Wat, praying for better luck. Might as well pray to my Guinness.

[natb19]

9 minutes ago, 1SteveC said:

 

You really should check your facts first ! There are 16 countries in Asia with a lower rating and 2 countries in ASEAN with a lower rating.

 

http://www.ef.co.th/epi/

 

 

I don't think that's the most relevant study to quote on the subject:

"the sample of test takers for the EF English Proficiency Index is biased towards respondents who are interested in pursuing language study"

[Joebuzz]

23 hours ago, tartempion said:

Still have not met the only English knowledgeable teacher or person in my daughters school. All other personal in that school does not understand a single English word.
She does get one (1) hour of English though. Why would Thai teachers need English anyway? There is no use/need for English in this country.


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I spent 3 years there meeting people from all over the world and most ALL had a much greater understanding of English.  Yet living in a tourist area, where you would think people would have a desire to communicate with those bringing the money, I found that their Thai exceptionalism is killing their chances of actually increasing their income.  As a retiree it was totally frustrating and I gave up.  As another said, Cambodia and Vietnam are both on my future itinerary as Thailand no longer is.  I only spent about $40,000 a year there but it won't happen again.  Far too many negatives to consider it again other than just the language.

[1SteveC]

4 hours ago, KhaoNiaw said:

It's something I've looked at in quite a lot of depth. And I agree with you,  under the right conditions.

But there is also research showing that there are no particular benefits to be gained and even potential damage to children's overall education if English is introduced as a foreign language at a very early age in less than ideal conditions. I'll dig some references out for you if you're interested.

 

"But there is also research showing that there are no particular benefits to be gained and even potential damage to children's overall education if English is introduced as a foreign language at a very early age in less than ideal conditions"

 

I for one would love to see the references you have stating that introducing English, (not a second language, but English), at any age has the potential to damage a child's overall education.

[madusa]

28 minutes ago, Megasin1 said:

Unfortunately if in French it will not be a best seller, as you are limiting potential sales, also I don't believe it's possible for a language to be tyrannical by definition, however I do wish you the best luck in your venture.

Well, tyrannical here is metaphorical or figurative so it is possible for a language to be tyrannical, literary so to speak.