Teacher Candidates Demand English Requirements Be Reduced

[1SteveC]

3 hours ago, digger70 said:

This is going to be good.the way they teach english now .the pupils can't speak understandable english.If they lower the Teachers standard they may as well stop teaching english as one wouldn't be able to understand a word they are saying.

 

And if punctuation and capitalisation were important, maybe you would do them correctly, instead of "slagging off" people who, (to me), write English just as appallingly as you.

[newnative]

Ridiculous. They should be raising them!  And, increasing the school hours.  It seems like the school kids are out of school and walking around the malls around 1pm.  Thailand really needs to step it up or be left behind by other ASEAN countries.

[Machiavelli]

4 hours ago, thequietman said:

OK Richard, let me explain it to you. Each class gets 50 minutes a week with the NES. Average class size is around 40. Students are always late to class, so minimum 10 minutes is lost. So, 40 minutes for 40 students. That's 1 minute per student. 4 minutes a month per student multiplied by 9 months. (school is closed for at least 3 months for hols and nonsense.) So, we are left with 36 minutes a year of English for each student with a NES.

 

Now, that's the best case scenario. Add in scout camp, sports day, Teachers Day, To Be Number 1 day, getting read for Songkran, Buddha day, the big mans birthday and on an on it goes ad infinitude.

 

NOW! Thai/English teacher gets the students for much more time, teaches only grammar, can't complete a full sentence, pronunciation completely wrong and on and on it goes.

 

Why don't you say something about it then, I hear you say. Well if you show concern for the curriculum, try to make small changes, point out serious flaws ........... then you sir, are labelled a trouble maker, not one of the group and are duly shunned. No renewal of contract for you next year.

 

This is but a smidgen of what involves being an English teacher in this massively broken system. It is NOT the  foreign teachers fault, trust me. 

Looks like you got a point Mike but is this rambling another round about way of saying the whole "native speaker " thing is a racket to pick pocket Thais. Your explanation suggests exactly that. 

[1SteveC]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

Some of these children may wish to further there education internationally or develop careers with international organizations. The ability to write as well as speak correctly is important to their future.

 

"there education" - did you mean, their education ?

[HooHaa]

9 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

what????  I don't know of ONE Filipino who can speak Thai are you getting confused?  Filipinos speak very good English normally from every quarter of the Philippines

bullshit, i spend half my time in phils and english is not universal. 

 

it is a pretense quickly dispelled when having anything but the most rudimentary of  conversations.
s 

 

[1SteveC]

8 minutes ago, madusa said:

Well, tyrannical here is metaphorical or figurative so it is possible for a language to be tyrannical, literary so to speak.

 

 

"metaphorical or figurative" - It can't be both, so which is it ?

 

"literary so to speak." - What ?

[mok199]

9 hours ago, 1SteveC said:

 

Maybe brush up a little on your own English skills, before passing on poor spelling, punctuation and grammar.

 

:-)

thanks for taking time to read thepost,...education is dear to me

[todlad]

3 hours ago, digger70 said:

This is going to be good.the way they teach english now .the pupils can't speak understandable english.If they lower the Teachers standard they may as well stop teaching english as one wouldn't be able to understand a word they are saying.

To add something that you reminded me of: did you know that Malaysia did the same recently, abandoning compulsory English medium classes in science and maths at school ... correct my memory if appropriate?

 

English is very widely spoken there so this came as a true shock to me and their universities were aghast.

[madusa]

Do the young Thais students care much about their future? The young Chinese students in China do, that is why in China you see young students really put their hearts and minds into studying English. They don't want to miss the boat.

Young Chinese students understand that they only reap the benefits of their studies of English language years later after they enter university and also after they graduated.

Whereas the Thais don't really look that far into the future. They put in minimum effort except for few smart ones or those in International schools where environment are vastly different.

To change the mindset of the whole nation? Some pop stars can do that to young people though but not the government because pop stars are "cool" . May be Micheal jackson could if he didn't die so young..

 

 

 

[madusa]

31 minutes ago, 1SteveC said:

 

"metaphorical or figurative" - It can't be both, so which is it ?

 

"literary so to speak." - What ?

From your questions it appears to me you don't really understand English well. Honestly I am not trying to make fun of you. If you feel insulted then my most sincere apology.

Shall we both call it quit then? Not a lot to go on really. 

[wavemanwww]

Another mooron Thai teacher. Makes statement but never left the country where real income is based on SPEAKING ENGLISH!

[joecoolfrog]

12 hours ago, Echo Tango said:

Bastardized American-English, eh? What makes old world "Classical English" so much better? Can you imagine Thai students trying to learn that stuffy, elitist version of English all day long? That's comical! Everyone wants to learn the streamlined and efficient version of English: American-English! :)

Care to give me an example of the this ' Stuffy , elitist English ?  I dont mean something from Chaucer , just the ordinary language that the entire English speaking world ( bar the USA ) has no problem negotiating.

[The Deerhunter]

22 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

Most Thai English teachers I have met do not do not speak it well enough to have any conversation with.

And I am meting another one on next Wednesday .  Will she be able to hold a conversation?  I first met her  her some years ago when she was not a teacher and her English then was just functional.  But she has not been overseas since then so we will see if it is better or worse.

[madusa]

On 7/6/2017 at 8:11 PM, trainman34014 said:

Lets face it; many Thai's can't even read or speak their own language properly !

The same goes to British school children. The British education department is having a hard time trying to improve the standard of English of British school children. In the old days they put the blame on TV, today they put the blame on i-phone, all the messages in short form or newly invented words for the i-phone communications. Lots school children cannot write a sentence without grammatical mistakes.

A man may take to drink because he feels himself to be a failure, and then fail all the more completely because he drinks. It is rather the same thing that is happening to the English language. It becomes ugly and inaccurate an effect that can become a cause reinforcing the original case producing the same effect in an intensified form. That's why you hardly see good English on this forum (excuse me for saying so, let's just keep our voice down ok? In case the french hear you).

Mind you, the french takes great care of their language. If you speak really bad french to them they walk away from you, they don't want to hear you butcher their language.

[YetAnother]

teacher candidates DEMAND {something}; because they are not qualified ?? says a lot about education here

[Slip]

13 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

Care to give me an example of the this ' Stuffy , elitist English ?  I dont mean something from Chaucer , just the ordinary language that the entire English speaking world ( bar the USA ) has no problem negotiating.

Chaucer elitist? From my memory he was actually somewhat bawdy once you managed to translate it- quite enjoyable all the same.  Meanwhile, I have to agree with you that to call UK English 'stuffy' is demonstrably nonsensical.

[speedtripler]

8 minutes ago, madusa said:

The same goes to British school children. The British education department is having a hard time trying to improve the standard of English of British school children. In the old days they put the blame on TV, today they put the blame on i-phone, all the messages in short form or newly invented words for the i-phone communications. Lots school children cannot write a sentence without grammatical mistakes.

A man may take to drink because he feels himself to be a failure, and then fail all the more completely because he drinks. It is rather the same thing that is happening to the English language. It becomes ugly and inaccurate an effect that can become a cause reinforcing the original case producing the same effect in an intensified form. That's why you hardly see good English on this forum (excuse me for saying so, let's just keep our voice down ok? In case the french hear you).

Mind you, the french takes great care of their language. If you speak really bad french to them they walk away from you, they don't want to hear you butcher their language.

But nobody gives a <deleted> about French..... 

English is where it's at.... After that I suppose it's Chinese and Spanish.... 

 

[joecoolfrog]

15 minutes ago, Slip said:

Chaucer elitist? From my memory he was actually somewhat bawdy once you managed to translate it- quite enjoyable all the same.  Meanwhile, I have to agree with you that to call UK English 'stuffy' is demonstrably nonsensical.

Yes Chaucer was a bad example 555. I was refering to the period , rather than the man himself. Old English is certainly not easy , just as well the language evolved over time , something our American cousins failed to grasp it seems.

[joecoolfrog]

23 minutes ago, madusa said:

The same goes to British school children. The British education department is having a hard time trying to improve the standard of English of British school children. In the old days they put the blame on TV, today they put the blame on i-phone, all the messages in short form or newly invented words for the i-phone communications. Lots school children cannot write a sentence without grammatical mistakes.

A man may take to drink because he feels himself to be a failure, and then fail all the more completely because he drinks. It is rather the same thing that is happening to the English language. It becomes ugly and inaccurate an effect that can become a cause reinforcing the original case producing the same effect in an intensified form. That's why you hardly see good English on this forum (excuse me for saying so, let's just keep our voice down ok? In case the french hear you).

Mind you, the french takes great care of their language. If you speak really bad french to them they walk away from you, they don't want to hear you butcher their language.

You are refering only to Parisiens , and their behaviour is due to simple rudeness and arrogance . In the regions I find most French people happy to excuse my poor efforts at speaking the language , they are content that I try.

[madusa]

6 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

You are refering only to Parisiens , and their behaviour is due to simple rudeness and arrogance . In the regions I find most French people happy to excuse my poor efforts at speaking the language , they are content that I try.

Yes, you are right, mr joecoolfrog.

[KhaoNiaw]

1 hour ago, 1SteveC said:

 

"But there is also research showing that there are no particular benefits to be gained and even potential damage to children's overall education if English is introduced as a foreign language at a very early age in less than ideal conditions"

 

I for one would love to see the references you have stating that introducing English, (not a second language, but English), at any age has the potential to damage a child's overall education.

 

It's not the age itself. Rather, it depends on the environmental factors such as available resources, qualified and trained teachers, socio-economic factors. Not to say that starting early is never a good thing. It seems to me that this is an argument that fits with a lot of what people are saying about the education system in Thailand. 
This is just a conference paper but probably provides a good basis for discussion:
https://doanbangoc.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/learning-english-in-asean_myths-and-principles.pdf

[The Teacher]

When I taught in a government school I was asked many times to proof read their English exam paper, and make corrections were needed, this was so amazing  that they not only used the wrong grammar in the question but give the answer for two or three consecutive questions. But anyway no Thai student ever fails nor can I fail them at all......Go figure that in today's society 

[YetAnother]

teacher candidates DEMAND {something}; because they are not qualified ?? says a lot about education here

'your honor, i cant pass the test; pass me anyway'

[thequietman]

2 hours ago, Machiavelli said:

Looks like you got a point Mike but is this rambling another round about way of saying the whole "native speaker " thing is a racket to pick pocket Thais. Your explanation suggests exactly that. 

I can't agree with you Dick. Rambling -  lengthy and confused or inconsequential. I don't feel that my post conveys confusion on my part and it certainly isn't consequential. Everything that I typed is fact.

A racket to pickpocket Thais - from the director of the schools point of view, maybe yes. Thai's stealing from Thai's - maybe yes.

 

Suggesting that it is the foreign teachers fault that English teaching here is poor - then, NO.

[DavisH]

7 hours ago, MarcelV said:

Blows my mind. As a non-native English speaker and teacher at a secondary Thai school, I consider myself unsuitable to teach English in Thailand, even though I got the maximum TOEIC score last year. But apparently some people think 250 should be enough. If you've made the test you'd know even 400 is nothing to brag about. Most Thai teachers at my school never even made any test, some of which I doubt would qualify otherwise.

 

Believe me, a full TOEIC score is more than enough to teach English to the level required here. I think the minimum is around 600 for non-native speakers isn't it? We had an Italian with an almost perfect score and he taught very well. I'd take a competent non-native speaker over an incomprehensible native speaker any day. 

[exemplary21]

On 7/6/2017 at 7:11 PM, trainman34014 said:

Lets face it; many Thai's can't even read or speak their own language properly !

 

Is English your "own language"?

 

You certainly haven't written it properly here.

 

 

[wvavin]

This is a hopeless topic as far I am concerned in this country!

[1SteveC]

10 hours ago, joecoolfrog said:

Yes Chaucer was a bad example 555. I was refering to the period , rather than the man himself. Old English is certainly not easy , just as well the language evolved over time , something our American cousins failed to grasp it seems.

 

Chaucer was 1343-1400, this period was firmly in the Middle English period (1150-1500), not the Old English period ,

[geronimo]

On 7/6/2017 at 7:07 PM, carlyai said:

Yes, rot from the top.
I filled in at a good Thai school years ago.
The lady that was in charge of the English department was not great with her English skills, then one day I read a thesis written by her for her master's degree obtained in the USA. Brilliantly written. Great command of the English language and great intuition.
Sad to say they couldn't be the same person.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk
 

A thesis that was written for her I would imagine ...

[LannaGuy]

13 hours ago, HooHaa said:

bullshit, i spend half my time in phils and english is not universal. 

 

it is a pretense quickly dispelled when having anything but the most rudimentary of  conversations.
s 

 

so they speak Thai as the poster said?  I go to Phil and own a condo there so I think I know something about Filipinos and English is much more common than in Thailand