Thai maths, please explain to me

[janclaes47]

My son obvious goes to a Thai school, but before he was in the English program, and would get Thai maths and English maths.

 

The English maths teacher would tell me that he was way ahead of other students with maths, but the Thai maths teacher said he had issues.

 

He now changed school and is in the regular program, so only receives Thai maths.

 

The class teacher at his new school just mentioned that he has problems with only 1 subject, which is Thai maths.

 

I also notice that if he has Thai maths home work that he struggles, but since I can't read Thai I have no idea why.

 

So please explain to me what's the difference, because in my world 1+1=2 in English or Thai, or what's the difference that makes it more difficult for him.

[nasanews]

Thais can be very racist they say.

[thequietman]

Mathematics is a language onto itself. If he was good at maths with his English teacher, then he should be equally good with his Thai teacher.

 

Maybe some issues with how he does the math may be the problem. Thai teachers most likely have a method that is different from the English one. Your son probably arrives at the correct answer but does it a different way. On maths tests you have to show how you got to the answer.

[janclaes47]

1 minute ago, thequietman said:

Thai teachers most likely have a method that is different from the English one.

 

That is also what he tells me, but he's unable to explain it to me in detail.

 

2 minutes ago, thequietman said:

On maths tests you have to show how you got to the answer.

I wasn't aware of that, and actually also don't see the point of it, because isn't it the result that counts?

[robblok]

43 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

 

That is also what he tells me, but he's unable to explain it to me in detail.

 

I wasn't aware of that, and actually also don't see the point of it, because isn't it the result that counts?

No in math you have to show how you get the answer.. its part of math. But this is in math language (by lack of a better word).. and that should be universal   3X = 9                          3X = 9  

                                                                                               ---------         =    X   = 3

                                                                                                 3

 

Something like that (easy example and easier if i could write it down)

Edited July 22, 2017 by robblok

[tonray]

In English Math = 1 (for you) and 1 (one for me)  = 2

 

In Thai Math =     1 (for you) and 1 (one for me) = 2 for the school director + 1 for the local monk = (-1) that parents will be asked to cough up at midterms

[JaiMaai]

If you can demonstrate that you understand the methodology but make a minor mistake you can get marks despite getting the wrong ultimate result. Conversely if you arrive at the right answer by accident or fail to show that you understand the method then you may not get full marks.

 

This would normally apply to more complex exercises such as calculus of course and since you didn't say how old your son is we can only speculate the level of maths he is studying.

[ben2talk]

My experience is that following the instructions given is guaranteed to fail. For example, with Thai homework it can be written in Thai 'fill in the correct words'. Next to a picture of a book, would you write an English or Thai word?

 

An English teacher would specify exactly in the instruction. A Thai teacher expects you to ignore or not even notice the written instruction and pick up on subtleties of his classroom experience.

 

My son failed 1+1=2 Ans=2 because the correct version is this: 1+1=2 Ans=๒

 

Similarly he fails his English homework because the translation is strange (correct answer for a 'lamp' is actually 'lantern') and also in Thai because he uses words like 'is' when he should use 'is'.

 

If you can't read Thai then you'll have trouble getting it. Start learning. Also get a Thai to copy/type the script into a text editor and play around translating.

[ben2talk]

2 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

 

That is also what he tells me, but he's unable to explain it to me in detail.

 

I wasn't aware of that, and actually also don't see the point of it, because isn't it the result that counts?

The result is not Mathematics.

With differentiation, you can take a shortcut and get the correct answer.

When I did it the second time, it took around about 2 pages of workings to get the same answer - the difference being that it wasn't an 'estimated' answer that worked out to be correct.

It was calculated.

For intelligent people it can prove very annoying that they cannot take shortcuts to reach answers. Mathematics aims to ensure you understand the methodology before you start using your intelligence.

 

You would understand this better if you'd been faced with a 'real world' situation - like programming a commodore 64 to multiply 4 by 5 in machine code.

Edited July 22, 2017 by ben2talk

[DavisH]

1 hour ago, JaiMaai said:

If you can demonstrate that you understand the methodology but make a minor mistake you can get marks despite getting the wrong ultimate result. Conversely if you arrive at the right answer by accident or fail to show that you understand the method then you may not get full marks.

 

This would normally apply to more complex exercises such as calculus of course and since you didn't say how old your son is we can only speculate the level of maths he is studying.

Often, Thai teachers will just give multiple choice questions and the student will be either right or wrong. They have no interest in the thought processes of the students - and multiple choice tests are quick to mark.

 

My son also had issues in his earlier grades in the Thai program. Since he has been in an EP he has done better.

 

My impression is that the Thai math teachers make the work exceedingly difficult (often beyond the grade level the students are at). They learn how to do certain problems in a certain way. There isn't much in the way of open ended problem solving / creative thinking in Thai mathematics. Also, Thai students are not allowed to use calculators (even to M6), in Thai schools. This limits their mathematical knowledge to spitting out answers using algorithms they are supposed to learn. Imagine only learning the basic trig ratios 30, 60, 90 degrees, etc. The difficulty in the exams (combined with poor instruction) can be seen after O-Net exams, where the average score is barely more than random guessing level. 

[DavisH]

29 minutes ago, ben2talk said:

The result is not Mathematics.

With differentiation, you can take a shortcut and get the correct answer.

When I did it the second time, it took around about 2 pages of workings to get the same answer - the difference being that it wasn't an 'estimated' answer that worked out to be correct.

It was calculated.

For intelligent people it can prove very annoying that they cannot take shortcuts to reach answers. Mathematics aims to ensure you understand the methodology before you start using your intelligence.

 

You would understand this better if you'd been faced with a 'real world' situation - like programming a commodore 64 to multiply 4 by 5 in machine code.

I'm always amused when I see some of my M3 students studying differentiation from outside tutorial schools....after a few minutes I discover they don't even know what a tangent or a limit is, or how to differentiate from first principles. They just stick numbers into a formula but have no idea what that number means. I guess their parents are impressed though:)

[janclaes47]

1 hour ago, JaiMaai said:

If you can demonstrate that you understand the methodology but make a minor mistake you can get marks despite getting the wrong ultimate result. Conversely if you arrive at the right answer by accident or fail to show that you understand the method then you may not get full marks.

 

This would normally apply to more complex exercises such as calculus of course and since you didn't say how old your son is we can only speculate the level of maths he is studying.

 

My son is 13 and at M2 currently.

 

I notice everyone is pointing out that he must be able to show how he gets to the result, but is this different in Thai maths with English maths taught in the very same school?

[MikeyIdea]

My half-Thai daughter went to a bilingual school in Bangkok until last year and she had mostly A grades on the English subject exams and mostly D's and F's on the Thai subject exams - both covering the same thing...

 

It was not so much that teaching methods as such differ (although they do differ), it was more

- that as a child, she likes what is easy and dislikes what is difficult

- teacher style is very different

 

Thai style you sit and get fed more, you respect the teacher and do not question of course, western style is more relaxed and open, more discussion, more clear

 

Reading comprehension is important to be able to do perform in Thai mathematics. I used to read and do Thai mathematics with my daughter until mid grade 6 and I was surprised how much reading there was. It is not "look at the samples and then you can figure out what should be done and you can do the next 10-20 samples", not at all. There are quite a lot of -> read, figure out what they mean, then do the mathematics and answer. Quite a few of these questions are not very clear and some are quite silly for a westerner too, I have also heard quite a few Thai's say that it's not very clear what they mean

 

Michael

Edited July 26, 2017 by MikeyIdea

[janclaes47]

2 minutes ago, MikeyIdea said:

Reading comprehension is important to be able to do perform in Thai mathematics.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Since my son is diagnosed with learning difficulties, I guess the quoted section is the reason.

 

He tested with a good IQ, but is slow in comprehension.

[cooked]

Using a different method from that preferred (or understood) by the teacher can result in an "issue". Happened to me back home when I applied advanced maths solutions to basic problems when I did a year with apprentices in order to get a necessary qualification. The teacher actually got quite annoyed with me.

[MikeyIdea]

2 hours ago, cooked said:

Using a different method from that preferred (or understood) by the teacher can result in an "issue". Happened to me back home when I applied advanced maths solutions to basic problems when I did a year with apprentices in order to get a necessary qualification. The teacher actually got quite annoyed with me.

Yes, that definitely apply to Thai school teachers, good comment.

 

Kids also really do get confused when parents tell the pupils to work problems in a different way from how their teachers explain. That happened to me and my daughter many times, I see everything I teach in maths long term and teach understanding and specifically point out the few areas where I want her to memorise something. Thai teachers tell pupils to memorise maths problem solving steps more often.