Racism and Bigotry Among Thailand Expats

[kaorop]

1 hour ago, seajae said:

problem is apologists are just as bad as red necks because both refuse to see the truth, people need to be able to comment on the bad as well as the good without being labelled racist etc. In Australia I have worked amongst aboriginals and had many of them as very good friends over many years, I saw their good side as well as their bad side and I have always been open about it because I believe in the truth, too many refuse to accept the truth and simply blame others for what happens to them, if people like me tell the truth of what they have seen/witnessed we are called racists because some  refuse to accept the truth of it even when many aboriginals say exactly the same things about their own people. Its the same in many countries including Thailand, telling the truth about what happens etc is not being racist or thai bashing, being unable to accept the truth and white washing what happens does more harm than good. My wife and her family will openly criticize some thais for the same things because that is being honest about it, the ones that need reigning in are those that white wash the bad and those that really do have something against all thais. If all it is is a difference of opinion then you are wrong, not telling what you see as racist etc is bad because it means you are judging people on  own views which may well be just as wrong but you are not game to post them in case you  get criticized yourself. As they say, opinions are like ar*ehole, every body has one

and thats where, imo, scumoticians come in, they have used divisive rhetoric (for their own benefit) to feed in to people prejudices

and muddied the water,  hence the minefield you have to walk thru.....(scumoticians = politicians, for those who didnt get it)

[Goanna]

3 minutes ago, Puwa said:

Haha thanks, I quite enjoyed it myself. In fact, it was your avatar that I spotted earlier in the thread that helped me make the connection. I'm not a teetotaler though. I was just pondering about a relationship between alcoholism, which is one kind of disease, and virulently hateful racism, which is another kind of disease. Interesting new views on the latter 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1071634/

http://bigthink.com/articles/is-racism-a-form-of-mental-illness

 

There are also some interesting videos of people having extreme racist breakdowns in which you can observe the same behavior repeated often enough to suggest a  pattern.

Yes, I can see where you are coming from. Possibly a combination of lack of education and poor parenting have contributed to your narrow view and hatred of the real world. Have a beer and get over your petty self.

[spectrumisgreen]

1 hour ago, chilli42 said:

Racism is for course alive and well.  That door very much swings both ways in Thailand.  You should hear what the Thais say about farangs. What they say about the dark skinned Esarn population and of course he bottom if society .... the Burmese.  I am not condoning racism but don't see a reason to beat up white racists in particular.  Racism is a cancer and it's alive and well everywhere in Thailand.

Its alive and well everywhere, I'd say. Its the pointless, festering, negativity which gets no-one anywhere I personally loathe. Still its becoming more and more a fact that you can't speak the truth or your opinion of it, in any perceivably non-complimentary way, about anything which may involve someone of a denomination not your own because that fact (their denomiation) will mean your,  rightful or wrongful, complaint or criticism, even constructive, WILL be taken by so many as a 'slur' and therefore folks'll just add whatever -ist they want to the comment.. and to YOU!! Its ALL pretty messed up, really!!!

[Goanna]

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

Racists are so full of anger and resentment they often have difficulty maintaining normal relationships, and are attracted to Thailand's sex trade.

Sex trade? Where? I'm in for sure.

[NanLaew]

16 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I think places like Pattaya tend to attract a disproportionately high number of people like that. I find that in Bangkok there are many open-minded, liberal types, although maybe that's just the company I mix in!

Sort of jives with what I recall from a thread about last years US election where someone opined that the Bangkok-based US expat were voting for Hillary whereas those in "places like Pattaya" were invariably Trump voters.

 

Not much of a labeler myself.

 

16 hours ago, rijb said:

These racists and bigots are living in a foreign country, with very little influence.  How much of a threat can they be?

Got that right. Barstool philosophers are a universal.

 

... and ex- navy SEALS.

[i claudius]

I wouldnt say i reall hated anyone, but i cant stand Muslims or blacks not keen on gays or trans people and dont get me started on those damned seventh day adventists or Christians, in fact i dont really care for anyone not born in my town or better still from the street i live in , and ime not to keen on my next door neighbour if the truth be known

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[billd766]

12 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said:

Yet another astute and well written post. Odd that  one finds such gems amongst the other rubbish posted

 

48 minutes ago, rijb said:

There's nothing wrong with your communication skills.  Nicely done.

 

Thank you both kindly.

 

It took me a while to get my thoughts and feelings down and revise them a couple of times .

 

 

[The Dark Lord]

Just now, billd766 said:

 

 

Thank you both kindly.

 

It took me a while to get my thoughts and feelings down and revise them a couple of times .

 

 

Well I for one am glad you took the effort. Sometimes I struggle to express my thoughts in such a  clear and highly literate manner, you helped me out on this one for sure. 

 

I salute you you my friend. 

[billd766]

17 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Sort of jives with what I recall from a thread about last years US election where someone opined that the Bangkok-based US expat were voting for Hillary whereas those in "places like Pattaya" were invariably Trump voters.

 

Not much of a labeler myself.

 

Got that right. Barstool philosophers are a universal.

 

... and ex- navy SEALS.

 

Or ex SAS.

[Puwa]

16 minutes ago, Goanna said:

Yes, I can see where you are coming from. Possibly a combination of lack of education and poor parenting have contributed to your narrow view and hatred of the real world. Have a beer and get over your petty self.

1

I guess you're trying to pull me into some kind of personal mudslinging type argument online-- who knows why. You shan't succeed. Enjoy the day, pussycat!

[cyberfarang]

Just now, The Dark Lord said:

Well I for one am glad you took the effort. Sometimes I struggle to express my thoughts in such a  clear and highly literate manner, you helped me out on this one for sure. 

 

I salute you you my friend. 

BTW, I also voted for UKIP at the last general election. Being anti mass immigration in my opinion doesn`t present a person as being racist. Nor does not agreeing with another countries system and politics or even not particularly liking other cultures mean being racist.

 

Being racist is when certain people hate others for want they are and not who they are regardless of their nationalities, political beliefs, religions and status in society.  For example when some posters on TV describe all Thais as Somchais, that does really upset me, especially considering it is us living in their country and I actually like and admire the Thai people as I`m sure many of us do. I believe that when some westerners and people from other Asian countries or from wherever come to this country with their extreme bias racialist prejudices and attitudes, that it`s not good for Thailand, meaning some of those western institutionalised racist attitudes, probably installed into them from an early age,  that consider all people of a certain race as having the same traits, then there is a danger these doctrines may filter through to the Thai people, considering that more and more foreigners seem to be settling in Thailand year by year and believe this is a real problem that should be taken seriously.

[jenifer d]

17 hours ago, pgrahmm said:

Very broad ranged & widely roaming statements.....

 

Any specific examples other than Nazi WW2 rhetoric involving people from different countries and ethnicities.....?

specific examples? just read almost EVERY post here regarding Muslims, katoey, or even Thai people...

[Thai Ron]

I share the OP's sentiments.

Racism among expats here is at its most vivid whenever a foreigner commits a crime or is caught up in some kind of aggravation in Thailand.

White person -

The authorities and/or the police investigation are immediately discredited

Absolutely MUST have been a Thai involved in the background

White people don't commit crime in Thailand-type attitude

"Thais are out to get us farangs"

 

Non-white guy

No questions asked - Definitely guilty

"Why are they even allowed into the country?"

"Deport the scum"

[pgrahmm]

2 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

You`re accusing me of being a left winger and another poster has accused me of being a right winger. Sorry, but I`m neither, I`m not into politics. Also you are another one who is trying to divert this thread into a political debate. You don`t agree with abortions, you think the left are extremists, you don`t think immigration is a good thing,  and then you throw Brexit into the mix. Personally I don`t give a toss about your political persuasions. You`re been married for 10 years to a Thai. I`m very happy for you, should you be given a medal for marrying a Thai? I`m also not going to fall into the trap of categorising certain people by race and religion that some are trying to coax me into, I`m taking about quite a few expats I have met that have accentuated some very obnoxious racist views that has sickened me and whether or not people are entitled to like or dislike whom they choose it doesn`t mean I have to accept extreme racism as only being freedoms of expression. These types of expats I find obnoxious and there seems an awful lot of these types over here and believe these issues should be addressed.  Please don`t try to label me as being something just because I deplore racism and then try to make comparisons with affairs that are happening abroad.  

 

 

 

 

So how do you address this? You bust him in the mouth across the table? Take them outside & shoot them? Send them right back where they come from? Spontaneous lobotomization? Call the grammar police because you don't like what they are saying?

 

This entire thread is about the human condition - their's - and yours......

 

Anytime I found myself in a poisonous place or in the company of poisonous people  I removed myself from that environment; or - if an employee or associate I removed them....

 

What you are standing on your soapbox banging your tambourine about isn't going to change....Basically making noise to make noise whilst you control completely who you associate with......

 

In a perfect world this wouldn't happen....We'd all sing kumbayah & clink glasses.....

 

But, it's an imperfect world -populated by different   & imperfect people....There are many things to find that are abhorrent.....

 

Unfortunately.....

[jenifer d]

it is my observation that MANY of the people posting on TVF are extremely racist, xenophobic,

virulently anti-Islam and anti-trans

it appears to me that a majority of the posters seem to be alcoholics married to former bar girls, and take any and every opportunity to slam Thai people and Muslims and immigrants and transgender, among other targets-          also many take huge delight in derisively slamming me because i have taken the time and trouble and open-mindedness to actually study and learn the Thai language and embrace the Thai culture while living and thinking and behaving as Thai, not as a bigoted expat colonist

[aslimversgwm]

13 hours ago, rogeroc said:

I think you are correct OP and i understand where you are coming from. On this forum the Brexit debate was a classic example of where nationalism, bordering on Imperialism came to the fore from many members. But the irony to me was the level of patriotism when they have chosen to live away from their home country.

 

I also believe that a lot of guys who are living here feel that they can let their guard down and feel that they have greater freedom to express views (on all manner of subjects) that would be taboo in their homeland. In a way i guess it is good that people can express their views but like you i often don't like what i hear and the lack of an open mind which is often so evident both in expat  life in Thailand and on this forum.

 

 

Exactly so and succinctly put.

[bazza73]

Everyone has their own set of prejudices. I know I do. I'm comfortable in Thailand because I can communicate with Thais. Certainly they can do some dumb things; however, there are also features of their mode of life that are smarter than we falangs are.

Having said that, I loathe Arabs. Having been forced to work with them over a period of six years, IMHO they are the laziest buggers on the planet.

[cyberfarang]

4 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

it is my observation that MANY of the people posting on TVF are extremely racist, xenophobic,

virulently anti-Islam and anti-trans

it appears to me that a majority of the posters seem to be alcoholics married to former bar girls, and take any and every opportunity to slam Thai people and Muslims and immigrants and transgender, among other targets-          also many take huge delight in derisively slamming me because i have taken the time and trouble and open-mindedness to actually study and learn the Thai language and embrace the Thai culture while living and thinking and behaving as Thai, not as a bigoted expat colonist

Agree with most of your post, but don`t agree that all are alcoholics and married to prostitutes, with some it seems to be bred into them or maybe been subject to bad influences in their own countries.  I am not a Thai wannabie or a Thai apologist, British and proud. I have embraced the rich Thai culture and appreciate I am able to live my life here without prejudice and enjoy a Thai style of living and all that it offers me.

 

I regard the Thailand expats as an international community, there is no room for bigots that try to give one group superiority over another group, it sort of throws a spanner into the works and is bad for the country. Listening or reading the comments from these people leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[piersbeckett]

11 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

it is my observation that MANY of the people posting on TVF are extremely racist, xenophobic,

virulently anti-Islam and anti-trans

it appears to me that a majority of the posters seem to be alcoholics married to former bar girls, and take any and every opportunity to slam Thai people and Muslims and immigrants and transgender, among other targets-          also many take huge delight in derisively slamming me because i have taken the time and trouble and open-mindedness to actually study and learn the Thai language and embrace the Thai culture while living and thinking and behaving as Thai, not as a bigoted expat colonist

Well, good for you; 'each to their own' but to me you do sound a tad bigoted yourself and immodest although you have my total respect regarding your 'when in Rome' policy.

 

[Thaidream]

I don't really believe expats in Thailand are any more Racist then they would be anywhere else including their own countries.  I do believe they may be more vociferous about certain things and peoples but mostly it is because of stereotyping.  Being American,  I believe we are being stereotyped as loud and somewhat arrogant. Since I am a senior citizen- I must be feeble; opinionated and refusing to change; and also not technologically savvy. Other nationalities have their own stereotypes

 

I am neither arrogant or loud or set in my ways nor am I feeble or  feel old., and try to avoid being like the stereotype. I could name all the stereotypes for others but that only reinforces it.

Some people don't like others because of their race; their religion; their nationality; and a myriad other reasons. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  However, when a person acts on their dislike and prejudices and excludes people based on these prejudices in such things as public accommodation -then that is different than just having a differing opinion. That is outright racism and discrimination and is against the law in most countries.

 

I do enjoy talking with expats of different nationalities and races. Most of the time the conversations is pleasant and revealing. Sometimes, people have opinions or thoughts that I consider wrong or offensive.  If I can't change the subject- I drink up and move on.

[jenifer d]

1 minute ago, piersbeckett said:

Well, good for you; 'each to their own' but to me you do sound a tad bigoted yourself and immodest although you have my total respect regarding your 'when in Rome' policy.

 

my ONLY bigotry is against those who are bigoted...

[joecoolfrog]

2 hours ago, hdkane said:

It's naive to equate being liberal with an open mind.  Most liberals I know have a very closed mind and would never shift their thinking even when presented with facts or opposing information.

Pot , Kettle , Black !

[abrahamzvi]

14 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

I`m not going to be drawn into discussing and getting into religious and racial debates, as again I prefer this thread not to go off track.  Usually when certain people are racist, have bigoted and superior views, they cover a whole range of people who they consider are inferior to them and this includes Asians I have met as well as whites.

 

Over the years I`ve discarded some expat friends and acquaintances who have such obnoxious views including their views on Thai people that truly sickened me. This happened to me during an encounter I had with an American 2 days ago and why I feel so strongly about it enough to publish a thread on the subject.

 

Otherwise in which other ways would you like me to explain? I`m sure some posters have their own examples they can tell.

I do agree with the OP and with most of the views expressed by him. However, one remark that I think ought be made is that one does not need to befriend or associate with the mentioned racial bigots. I do not befriend such people, irrespective of their nationality, social status or country of origin. I like to spend my time with people whose company I enjoy and most certainly Not with racialists, whose "views" I am unable to change.

[rogeroc]

9 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I don't really believe expats in Thailand are any more Racist then they would be anywhere else including their own countries.  I do believe they may be more vociferous about certain things and peoples but mostly it is because of stereotyping.  Being American,  I believe we are being stereotyped as loud and somewhat arrogant. Since I am a senior citizen- I must be feeble; opinionated and refusing to change; and also not technologically savvy. Other nationalities have their own stereotypes

 

I am neither arrogant or loud or set in my ways nor am I feeble or  feel old., and try to avoid being like the stereotype. I could name all the stereotypes for others but that only reinforces it.

Some people don't like others because of their race; their religion; their nationality; and a myriad other reasons. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  However, when a person acts on their dislike and prejudices and excludes people based on these prejudices in such things as public accommodation -then that is different than just having a differing opinion. That is outright racism and discrimination and is against the law in most countries.

 

I do enjoy talking with expats of different nationalities and races. Most of the time the conversations is pleasant and revealing. Sometimes, people have opinions or thoughts that I consider wrong or offensive.  If I can't change the subject- I drink up and move on.

 

I don't want to turn this into a topic about Brexit but if you look at the results of the Thai Visa poll on Brexit it shows 70% in favour. This surely indicates that (in at least one way) the people on this forum are not representative of the general population of the UK. Add to that the probability that most on this forum are living away from their home countries the high level of Nationalism being expressed in that debate and here in this thread seems quite bizarre .I think the OP has brought up a good topic and maybe we should be more open to challenging extreme views when we hear them, or as others have said walk away.

[joecoolfrog]

1 hour ago, hugh2121 said:

If I don't like Germans or Russians for example, why does this make me a racist? In any case, what's wrong with being a racist? It's my choice who I like and dislike. PC brigade can go take a running jump.

If one rails against foreigners in their own country , yet lives as a foreigner abroad , then they are at the very least a raging hypocrite.

[abrahamzvi]

8 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

Pot , Kettle , Black !

or presenting them with "fake News"...............

[rogeroc]

1 minute ago, joecoolfrog said:

If one rails against foreigners in their own country , yet lives as a foreigner abroad , then they are at the very least a raging hypocrite.

Beautifully put but trying telling them that and they will still feel their hypocrisy is acceptable. A bit like the guys who want to beat someone up for merely looking at their gf / latest bargirl conquest, but wll happily try and have sex with everything that moves themself.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, jenifer d said:

it is my observation that MANY of the people posting on TVF are extremely racist, xenophobic,

virulently anti-Islam and anti-trans

it appears to me that a majority of the posters seem to be alcoholics married to former bar girls, and take any and every opportunity to slam Thai people and Muslims and immigrants and transgender, among other targets-          also many take huge delight in derisively slamming me because i have taken the time and trouble and open-mindedness to actually study and learn the Thai language and embrace the Thai culture while living and thinking and behaving as Thai, not as a bigoted expat colonist

Yup, you'll fit right in.

 

Eventually.

 

Somewhere.

[jenifer d]

Just now, NanLaew said:

Yup, you'll fit right in.

 

Eventually.

 

Somewhere.

i beg your pardon, whatever do you mean?

[NanLaew]

4 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

i beg your pardon, whatever do you mean?

Your admission of embracing a self-determined course of open-minded assimilation and learning of everything Thai hasn't completely depleted your ability to label others.

 

That's a good sign.

 

Carry on.