How hard is thai to learn

[Here2008]

3 minutes ago, minikev said:

I'm fairly sure children learn by copying and then being corrected when they're wrong

 

That is a very simplistic "understanding" of how children acquire language. 

 

Perhaps Google Scholar will help find a more in depth and academic explanation for you. 

[seancbk]

28 minutes ago, Here2008 said:

 

Anything but! 

 

I have a normal expressive voice and use 'received pronunciation"

 

There I am told by a Thai university language lecturer that there are those who will never be able to speak Thai. ' 

Sounds like you speak English correctly   ;-)

There are many reasons why people fail to learn a language, usually it's one or more of the following factors - age, effort, desire, ability to hear and ability to mimic exactly what the other person says (including how they say it).

It still gets on my nerves when I hear Brits who pronounce baht at 'bat'    Even when you try to get them to listen to you saying 'bart'  they insist on repeating it as 'bat'  

 

[minikev]

8 minutes ago, Here2008 said:

 

That is a very simplistic "understanding" of how children acquire language. 

 

Perhaps Google Scholar will help find a more in depth and academic explanation for you. 

I prefer the simplistic method mainly because it is "simpler" and therefore easier. As for looking for the academic way into how 4 yr olds learn a language, I don't feel the need as I think "their mum's teach them" makes a decent argument.

You have taken me a long way away from the original thread question for no particular reason. 

[Here2008]

Just now, minikev said:

You have taken me a long way away from the original thread question

No.  You did that !  But as you say simple is as simple does ! 

[chrissables]

2 minutes ago, seancbk said:

Sounds like you speak English correctly   ;-)

There are many reasons why people fail to learn a language, usually it's one or more of the following factors - age, effort, desire, ability to hear and ability to mimic exactly what the other person says (including how they say it).

It still gets on my nerves when I hear Brits who pronounce baht at 'bat'    Even when you try to get them to listen to you saying 'bart'  they insist on repeating it as 'bat'  

 

I know two expats who keep pronouncing soi as soya. I keep correcting them, but now they get angry if if i do. I actually wonder why their wives don't correct them too.

[theoldgit]

Post flaming other member removed, please keep it civil.

[minikev]

8 minutes ago, Here2008 said:

No.  You did that !  But as you say simple is as simple does ! 

OK civil answer.

I used the way children learn a language very simply to answer the OP's question.

There is no need to google " how do we learn to speak" in any language as it is a very natural process. We try, we get it wrong, we are corrected and we try again.

Perhaps the "simple" method I use is the reason I can speak to Thai's in Thai anywhere in Thailand and they understand me. Just a thought as overcomplicating it doesn't seem to work for many people I know that have tried for many years.

[Here2008]

1 minute ago, minikev said:

civil answer.

I used the way children learn a language

 

Adults use very different "learning" techniques/processes than do children. 

 

As said already Google Scholar will aid your understanding. 

[minikev]

OK enough ping pong with you.

My last reply is simply to you directly. I don't need to google it as I have already learned to speak Thai without google scholar. Perhaps some of the other people on this thread would like more than just your opinion on how it can be done. There is no real need for you to poo poo my method just because it isn't the method you think is correct.

If people wanting to learn Thai start at the beginning like a child, repeating words copying Thai people. learn the meaning of that word in a short period of time they will have enough words to make sentences and therefore start speaking Thai. This works.

[bazza73]

On 8/2/2017 at 9:18 PM, coops said:

As a language, grammatically and phonetically it is far easier than English for instance... BUT  any, and every, westerner, first has to deal with their compelete inability to hear the tones correctly...or at all.

 

 

 

The tones make it a brute of a language to learn. The older one gets, the more difficult it is to distinguish them. And sometimes context in a sentence is the only way to pick which word is being used.

I can get by in communicating with Thais. I'm never going to be able to have an in-depth discussion.

Just one example. The word neua can mean beef, or sweat/sweaty. I'm stuffed if I can pick the tone difference.

Mai mai mai mai.

[Bantex]

I can speak enough Thai to get by with but I have always found that the Thais I have spoken to appreciate that I have made the effort and will help me when I get stuck. I live in a remote village close the Myanmar border where Thai, Mon, and Burmese are the main languages but my neighbours make the effort to pick up some English. My Thai wife speaks six languages and my five year old daughter speaks three languages. English is the main language spoken in my house (my families choice, not mine). Maybe the natives are less arrogant in the sticks.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, seancbk said:

 

The point is we use tones in English to convey extra meaning along with the meaning of the word.

All the people saying "I can't hear tones" must have very poor hearing.

 

   

OK l have poor hearing, done.

[jenifer d]

On 8/2/2017 at 11:31 PM, Damrongsak said:

I had the benefit of about 6 weeks of training in the Peace Corps. 25 hours a week, all in Thai.  They used the "silent way" method.  The teacher would say a word, make each student pronounce it correctly, then demonstrate the meaning (silently) until everyone grasped the meaning.  Amazingly effective.  We learned to think in Thai.  A couple people got good at reading and writing in that time.  I only squeaked by.   A couple older volunteers had a hard time because they couldn't hear the tones.

 

I ended up in a small town in Isaan, working with a Thai govt department.  There were very few foreigners, so it was either speak Thai or stay silent for weeks on end. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Way

 

Some years ago, we visited Mexico.  My high school Spanish was really rusty.  So when I was at a loss for a word, a Thai word just automatically popped in there.  I got some strange looks.

TO OP: YES, it is VERY worthwhile to learn and not only will it be greatly appreciated by ALL Thais you come into any sort of contact with, but it will substantially increase your enjoyment while here, whether residing here or just a frequent visitor-

to YOUR point, Damrongsak- agreed, the toughest thing is the tones, especially since in Western languages we are used to inflecting, for instance tonally inflecting upwards when asking questions, conveying emotion, etc- in Thai, of course, that changes the meaning of the word completely... my friends who first helped and encouraged me always stressed that to know the alphabet then undertaking reading and writing was essential- after almost 8 years of unofficial but dilligent study, i would say that my understanding of other's speaking is 70%, but my speaking is possibly 20-30%, although my good friends claim it is around 50%... 

i also studied Spanish, for 6 years, 7th grade-12th; when i moved here and started learning Thai, my

brain would go to its default foreign language, i.e., Spanish- but now, when i try to speak Spanish with Spanish-speaking people whom i meet on our island, my brain is thinking in Thai-

few years back, was helping a neighbor in his restaurant, a table of people from Spain came in, we were speaking in Spanish, i went to the Thai  barman to get drinks, and ordered in Spanish, the WHOLE restaurant  turned around and laughed uproariously... of course i had to join in, for of course the joke was on me  

[Oxx]

17 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

TO OP: YES, it is VERY worthwhile to learn and not only will it be greatly appreciated by ALL Thais you come into any sort of contact with, but it will substantially increase your enjoyment while here, whether residing here or just a frequent visitor

 

Being cynical, what would substantially increase my enjoyment is being able to get a proper credit card or two which allowed me to get substantial discounts on restaurant meals out.  Speaking Thai doesn't do that so, despite having a few million in the bank, I end up paying perhaps 20% more than some poor Thai with his array of happily granted credit cards for each restaurant meal.

[jenifer d]

1 minute ago, Oxx said:

 

Being cynical, what would substantially increase my enjoyment is being able to get a proper credit card or two which allowed me to get substantial discounts on restaurant meals out.  Speaking Thai doesn't do that so, despite having a few million in the bank, I end up paying perhaps 20% more than some poor Thai with his array of happily granted credit cards for each restaurant meal.

really? it may just be that the establishment refuses to give discounts to ANY farang, even if they DO speak Thai;

i've heard that some places are that way although in my personal experiences i get Thai price

it's really only seems to be an issue in more touristic places

[Naam]

35 minutes ago, Oxx said:

55 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

TO OP: YES, it is VERY worthwhile to learn and not only will it be greatly appreciated by ALL Thais you come into any sort of contact with, but it will substantially increase your enjoyment while here, whether residing here or just a frequent visitor

 

Being cynical, what would substantially increase my enjoyment is being able to get a proper credit card or two which allowed me to get substantial discounts on restaurant meals out.  Speaking Thai doesn't do that so, despite having a few million in the bank, I end up paying perhaps 20% more than some poor Thai with his array of happily granted credit cards for each restaurant meal.

since my first day in Thailand my enjoyment is not only substantially but exponentially increased by the fact that the Thai taxman hasn't put his claws in the pocket where i keep the financial proceeds from offshore investment. and this inspite of the fact that my Thai is limited to numbers and a few polite phrases. of course i'm aware that i don't have a chance to get a discount from a street food vendor should i ever be crazy enough to crave for these delicacies.

[Chou Anou]

2 hours ago, bazza73 said:

The tones make it a brute of a language to learn. The older one gets, the more difficult it is to distinguish them. And sometimes context in a sentence is the only way to pick which word is being used.

I can get by in communicating with Thais. I'm never going to be able to have an in-depth discussion.

Just one example. The word neua can mean beef, or sweat/sweaty. I'm stuffed if I can pick the tone difference.

Mai mai mai mai.

You're right about "meat" and "sweat" having different tones (high for the first, low for the second), but there's another key difference between the two words: the word for "meat" starts with an "n," but the word for "sweat" starts with an "ng"...hearing the consonant "ng" at the beginning of words is yet another hurdle for English speakers learning Thai, since we never have this sound at the beginning of a word, only in the middle or end...

[Damrongsak]

9 hours ago, LawrenceN said:

It was ten weeks, Richard, from late March to mid-June. Remember? A month in Chainat, another month in Maha Sarakham, and that final week in Hua Hin at the Railway Hotel (now the Sofitel).

Thanks for the reminder, Larry.  But it wasn't all language training.  Wasn't Maha Sarakham just delightful in the hot, dry season?

[Damrongsak]

2 hours ago, bazza73 said:

Mai mai mai mai.

Pour a little gasoline on it.

[Ruffian Dick]

7 hours ago, minikev said:

I'm fairly sure children learn by copying and then being corrected when they're wrong. The same way I learned to speak Thai. 

Is there some other secret way that I need to learn about?

Yes, they don't have another language in their head. When you're learning your second language, you have to fight the subconscious tendency to say "that's not the right way to say this"...

[Ruffian Dick]

7 hours ago, seancbk said:

Sounds like you speak English correctly   ;-)

There are many reasons why people fail to learn a language, usually it's one or more of the following factors - age, effort, desire, ability to hear and ability to mimic exactly what the other person says (including how they say it).

It still gets on my nerves when I hear Brits who pronounce baht at 'bat'    Even when you try to get them to listen to you saying 'bart'  they insist on repeating it as 'bat' 

Maybe I'm prejudiced as a Yank, but doesn't it seem that BBC newscasters often mispronounce foreign words? Even when the correct alternative pronunciation is commonly known? No reflection on the language abilities of most Brits, I am sure...

[Here2008]

1 minute ago, Ruffian Dick said:

Maybe I'm prejudiced as a Yank, but doesn't it seem that BBC newscasters often mispronounce foreign words? Even when the correct alternative pronunciation is commonly known? No reflection on the language abilities of most Brits, I am sure...

I am sure Y'all talk and spell perfect "English!"  ----------------

 

 

 

[minikev]

12 minutes ago, Ruffian Dick said:

Yes, they don't have another language in their head. When you're learning your second language, you have to fight the subconscious tendency to say "that's not the right way to say this"...

My two granddaughters speak 3 languages each at 4 and 5 yrs old.

[Ruffian Dick]

9 minutes ago, Here2008 said:

I am sure Y'all talk and spell perfect "English!"  ----------------

 

 

 

Cash me ousside, how bow dah?

[seancbk]

13 hours ago, Ruffian Dick said:

Maybe I'm prejudiced as a Yank, but doesn't it seem that BBC newscasters often mispronounce foreign words? Even when the correct alternative pronunciation is commonly known? No reflection on the language abilities of most Brits, I am sure...

BBC newscasters used to be the standard for perfect enunciation and pronunciation.    Nowadays they are far from perfect. 

However, can you give an example where they mispronounce a foreign word?  I've not watched the BBC for more than 8 years as I don't have a TV.

[csabo]

22 hours ago, seancbk said:

 

If you pronounce 'Like' as "loyk" then you need to try and shed your regional accent first.      I'm English and I wouldn't understand you if you pronounced like that way.

My point exactly. Same reason why I don't understand many Brits when they speak "English". 

[dick dasterdly]

Depends upon whether you have a natural ability for languages.

 

If you don't - and are tone deaf - you're pretty much out of luck when it comes to learning to speak Thai .

[dick dasterdly]

14 hours ago, minikev said:

My two granddaughters speak 3 languages each at 4 and 5 yrs old.

Whereas my parents took me to a doctor (who referred them to a specialist), as to why I was barely talking although approx. 3/4 years old.

 

The 'specialist' said that it was because I was listening to two languages (mother Finnish/father English) and couldn't cope.  Not everyone has a natural talent for languages.

 

As soon as I only had to deal with one language, I progressed in leaps and bounds,  to the extent that I could read before starting school.

 

In short, not everyone has a natural talent for languages - and I suspect its those with a more mathematical mind that have less of an ability with languages?

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Depends upon whether you have a natural ability for languages.

 

If you don't - and are tone deaf - you're pretty much out of luck when it comes to learning to speak Thai .

  in my village when l talk with tourist people in my pub restaurant and tell them l've lived here 12 years,  people from, France, Italy, Germany, Switzerland, Holland, Spain, Russia, China, Singapore, Malaya etc etc they all say why you no speak Thai,  l say it's because l'm English.  

[Oxx]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

 tourist people ...  l say it's because l'm English.  

 

In English we simply say "tourists".  Are you sure you're English?

 

And do all your "tourist people" visitors really speak pidgin English, as in "why you no speak Thai".