New house - pre planning thoughts

[SGD]

Time to start the ball rolling on the retirement house I guess but this will be a pretty slow burn project I guess over the next 24/36 months. At this stage, I'm just trying to get over the initial logistics and look at what we want and what can sensibly be achieved in a certain time frame.

 

We have 15+rai of land so space is not really an issue. Utilities are reasonably nearby so unlikely to be huge factor, except sewerage, which I don't know about yet, but which I suspect will need to be private.

 

Haven't had the soil tested yet but it appears to be largely clay as it does not drain particularly well; something to consider for sure.

 

Looking at a 2 storey place with perhaps a hacienda type feel of covered external spaces and well aired with decently large rooms. Around 4 en suite bedrooms plus indoor and outdoor kitchens and multiple ground floor rooms for living, study etc. I am considering the pool build separately.

 

Don't expect it to be too cheap but as it will be needed for a generation or more, build quality from the outset is paramount.

 

Onsite management of the build will be restricted. Quite simply, I don't think we can be there every day. If the build was 3 months then perhaps we could but if it extended over 6 months plus then we could not and that worries me. I could build a place in the UK that fast but I doubt it can be done to the required standard with such a tight schedule in Thailand.

 

There isn't an endless money pit to dig into and though I expect to pay well for the quality, I would be hesitant if I thought too many people were looking to get fat off my largesse. This beginning of the learning process will hopefully allow me to decide what I need to buy in or whether there is a viable option to have a single main contractor who does it all. I guess that question is answered by whether they want X% profit or 100% profit !

 

So the question is, where do we begin ?

 

Permission to build ?

House design ?

Appointing an architect ?

Build quality options ?

Getting estimates ?

Choosing a builder ?

Who should project manage the build ?

How to find the right technology for doors, windows, solar, water, etc. is this knowledge available in Thailand ?

 

So much to learn I know but if I can get a little (or a lot of) help I'd be much appreciated.

Oh, budget ? Like a piece of string really. My feeling is that we're not going to end up building to a budget but rather to a specification and making decisions along the way as to whether we plough the extra money into some option or not because we deem it value for money when the option is presented to us. Of course, if the options outstrip the ability to pay for it then we will have to downgrade but we'll be using income and savings to finance it so end finish options might not be decided on right at the outset whereas build quality and construction options will guide the initial budget.

 

 

[bankruatsteve]

A good architect who you are comfortable with sounds like what you need.  Scarce but they exist.  They will have their own crew or source from local and it's just a matter of what you can afford.  He would handle all your questions.

[Artisi]

Big house so it won't come cheap. A few years since I built and haven't kept up todate on costs, but expect to pay

Bht 20 / 25 000 + per square metre for quality and to an acceptable western standard. 

You need to research builders and their work. 

Count on at least 12 months from start to finish. 

What area are you located? 

Edited August 5, 2017 by Artisi

[Kwasaki]

48 minutes ago, SGD said:

So the question is, where do we begin ?

Locked topic info might help.

 

Useful links: domestic electric, construction photos, security

[pferdy62]

You need to think about the building materials you want to use.  AAC blocks are great for walls and very fast to lay, but you need skilled workers to get a really flat wall.  

 

What sort of roofing material are you thinking about?  What about roof insulation?

Which way do you want the house to face on the land relative to the sun's path?  This can affect which rooms will heat up at different times of the day.

 

The list goes on and on.

 

[eyecatcher]

If you dont have construction knowledge and experience then please use some of your budget to pay for a project manager.

he should not be the Architect but an individual who is on site every day who is responsible for discussing every aspect of the build with YOU and also organises all materials and specialist trades.

 

I have a very well documented build process, that saw me offload about 14 tradesmen quickstix, and almost ended up divorced because the wife was the language go between.

 

My 6 month build is now in month 26 because i refused to have any more tradesmen calling themselves tradesmen come through my gates.

 

if you value your relationship you should try not to let the house control your life as mine is doing now.

 

 

[taninthai]

35 minutes ago, eyecatcher said:

If you dont have construction knowledge and experience then please use some of your budget to pay for a project manager.

he should not be the Architect but an individual who is on site every day who is responsible for discussing every aspect of the build with YOU and also organises all materials and specialist trades.

 

I have a very well documented build process, that saw me offload about 14 tradesmen quickstix, and almost ended up divorced because the wife was the language go between.

 

My 6 month build is now in month 26 because i refused to have any more tradesmen calling themselves tradesmen come through my gates.

 

if you value your relationship you should try not to let the house control your life as mine is doing now.

 

 

same as my 3 month build has turned into a 9 month build ,because i got rid of all the  so called trades man 7 weeks into the build.

 

[BasketCase]

We just finished our place in Bang Saray. Was really pleased with our builder and with the outcome if the project.

 

Your questions are really open ended, and could literally consume a whole forum. Suffice it to say, there is a lot to learn.

 

I did a lot of research on coolthaihouse.com, but that forum seems to be kinda dead. Another forum that I apparently cannot mention here has some decent build threads.

 

The absolute best thing you can do is visit with people who have recently gone thru what you are about to go thru. Get personal recommendations.

 

Without question, the key to happiness and success is finding a reputable builder with a good stable crew. They do exist, but are not easy to find.

 

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[Morch]

There are quite a few helpful discussions and links on this forum, worth well spending some time going over stuff - will answer a lot of question, and will raise as many new ones. Same for other forums, some more specialized.

 

I'd start with doing a rough plan of your own. There are some free tools just for that available for download, pretty easy to use - and once you get the hang of it, saves a whole lot of time and misunderstanding when trying to explain what you want/don't want.

 

If you're near a city, finding a local based architect shouldn't be hard (and that's more relevant to the part about architect having his own team etc.). Finding the right one, though - more complicated, but very important. We didn't have this issue (architect is BIL), but builder was located by asking around, and zeroing on the one we liked. Wasn't difficult to get people talking, or even showing their houses.

 

If plot level needs to be raised, that would be the first step, and can sometimes take a while to complete. Many people do it without consulting architect/builder. For your project, perhaps better to do otherwise.

 

Building materials - other than certain individual preferences which are a "must", easier to source according to what's available near your area. Builder will know all about that, architect too, if locally based.

 

As other said, if you do not have the know-how, and can't be there pretty much constantly - better have a project manager. This could be arranged via the architect, or if perhaps a suitable family member might do. Still better if you show up often regardless.

 

When plans are drawn, they will be submitted at the local whatever office, approved and a building permit will be issued (short version).

 

Make some sort of contract specifying payment details, and anything else you might think of. Never pay too much upfront, or if work isn't as agreed. 

 

Have a lot of patience. As someone told me - if you end up with a decent house, sanity more or less intact, and still married, you did good.

 

Pester some of the very knowledgeable people on forums (you'll suss out who), usually very helpful. Or read past topics - seems like most questions been asked and answered at some point.

 

Good luck!

[Puffadder]

Free programs to download for design and planning are:

 

1. ToDoList  (http://abstractspoon.weebly.com/) - scheduling  and to do list

2. Sweet Home 3D (http://www.sweethome3d.com/) - Drafting house plans

 

 

[Artisi]

SGD:

where is your build located?

Edited August 6, 2017 by Artisi

[Kwasaki]

13 hours ago, BasketCase said:

Your questions are really open ended, and could literally consume a whole forum.

The absolute best thing you can do is visit with people who have recently gone thru what you are about to go thru. Get personal recommendations.

 

Without question, the key to happiness and success is finding a reputable builder with a good stable crew. They do exist, but are not easy to find.

Spot on. 

[Henricus]

http://www.thaweephan-prefab.com

[csabo]

You don't have any rai.  Make a house with wheels.

[1DegreeN]

Get in touch with Chris at Kensington (http://www.thailandbuilders.com/). I have used them for the design and build of our own house, due to be completed on schedule end of September after an 8 month build, and I am very happy with their service. We are new in the area and have no local contacts for tradesmen or builders and for me it has been very re-assuring to work with Chris, a fellow Brit. I have no experience in construction, there's no way I could realistically supervise the project myself. No doubt I am paying a premium for using Kensington but that buys me a guarantee on quality and standards - which I didn't think I was likely to get if I used local contractors. Have a chat with Chris, even if you decide not to use his company he can still give you very good advice. And you probably know already that new builds need to start in the dry season so don't hang about because the design can take a few months to complete and you'll have to wait until 2019 if you're not ready in time for end of this year.

[mfd101]

We moved into our new place (2-storey, 365sq/m, on 2 rai) in late March this year, some 15 months after earthworks began. End result is good - robust build, some shoddy workmanship not too obvious, now almost leak-proof ...

 

But oh! the blood, sweat & tears to get there!

 

Good start for design would be smilehomes.com - lots of choice, prices, high-quality plans. We chose one, plans cost roughly 50000฿ but very good indeed with architect in BKK a phonecall away. When we took them to the government people here in Surin for approval to build, they were most impressed - never seen anything like it before in terms of detail & comprehensiveness. We modified the plan in various ways to suit ourselves (2 medium-sized bedrooms u/s & small (3rd) bathroom turned into my library etc) but all turned out fine.

 

Main problem was that we chose a succession of family 'n friends 'builders' who turned out to be (1) at best amateurs of varying capability, not suited to a big western-style house (2) at worst a bunch of thieving lying rogues. Went thru 3 lots of them before my partner took on the role of project manager & started supervising every moment of every day. End result was 50% over the planned cost & twice the expected time, but that's life. LESSON: You need professional builders with professional techos for the technical bits (electricity, water, pumps if any ...) - depending where you are, that generally means NOT locals. Having a falang project manager would be a great idea, providing he has relevant experience in Thailand.

 

Having said all that, there were some workers (3 painters for instance) who did an excellent job and helped out with other tasks cheerfully when they had to wait for others to finish before they could do their job ...

 

One major problem always to look out for is that most Thai 'builders', workers, techos etc have never actually LIVED in a western-style house, so they have no idea what all sorts of things are for or how to install them or problems to watch out for - from the trivial (toilet paper holders carefully placed so you need to have the agility of a 10-year-old to reach them) to the important (kitchen marble bench placed too high even for a falang let alone a little Thai to work at - why? because the Italian dishwasher was fairly tall & needed to fit underneath - didn't think it was important enough to dig out a little further & lower the d/washer). And on & on. Most things had to be done twice, thrice or even 4 times over before they were right. Sigh. But we got there ... One of my mistakes, as my b/f is not loath to point out, was that I was always cheerful, polite & smiling throughout, using the best of my Western management skills to cajole them along. Turns out that the only thing that works here is shouting & threats ...

Edited August 8, 2017 by mfd101

[seancbk]

If I ever get to the stage where I want to live outside of Bangkok and need to think about building my own place, I'd like to go with something super modern, built using steel rather than bricks.

Had my eye on something like this, although perhaps bigger.  I quite like the idea of a singe level (bungalow I suppose) so there are no stairs, although it might be nice to turn the roof into a large deck for entertaining a few hundred friends at a time. 

Definitely don't want something that looks like a European style house! 

 

[juehoe]

On 6.8.2017 at 10:45 AM, Puffadder said:

Free programs to download for design and planning are:

 

1. ToDoList  (http://abstractspoon.weebly.com/) - scheduling  and to do list

2. Sweet Home 3D (http://www.sweethome3d.com/) - Drafting house plans

 

 

SketchUp is also a good choice: https://www.sketchup.com

[steve73]

I designed and built a small extension to an existing small bungalow in 2008.  The original bungalow was a simple one room plus bathroom, 6m x 6m, with a 1.5m wide balcony around 3 sides, all covered with cement sheet pitched roof with a 1.5m overhang, and a large 6m x 4m lean-to Thai-style kitchen at one end.  This had been built by the previous owner in 2005.

 

My extension was 6m x 8m built over 3 levels.  Garage/storage on the lower level.  3 bedrooms /2 bathrooms on the middle level with a 1.5m wide balcony continuing around 2 sides.  And a full sized roof deck partially covered complete with crenelations, with stairs leading upto it from the original bungalow balcony.  It is now effectively two separate buildings with the stairs to the upper level in between.

 

I sketched out what I wanted in reasonable detail and estimated the total cost of ALL materials.  I invited bids from 3 sets of builders, requiring a commitment of how long it would take and a stage payment profile.

 

One of the bids was twice the other, the 3rd didn't even bother.  Since the lowest was from the local "builder" who had built the original bungalow to a reasonable standard for the price, I decided to go with him.  His estimate was 2 months, and wanted 3 stage payments; ground floor level, top level and final.  I suggested he re-estimate the duration as I was going to deduct 3% per week late completion.

 

Since I lived in the existing bungalow, I was on-site every day. After a few early "discussions" about keeping the site tidy (as it was my access route), he quickly learned to consult me on any matter, including giving me a few day notice of when materials would be required to be delivered.   I also kept a full record of the number of his workers each day, and any days missed due to weather.

 

All in all, it went reasonably well.  We were about 3 weeks late (but we lost about 15 days due to weather), although I didn't make any deductions.  I'd made a couple of earlier part- payments as well to help him pay his workers, and there were a couple of "specialist" trades that he wanted extra for (ceiling board installer & electrician), which I reluctantly agreed to part-fund.  Most of the materials had gone up in price due to the oil price, some ,such as steel by around 30%, and some of my estimates e.g. for bulks (sand, stone & cement) were a little on the light side.  This increase to the cost of materials since my original estimate had eaten well into my contingency allowance, and I scrimped by using a much cheaper paint than I had originally planned (which was my major mistake... I should have spent the extra few thousand baht per pot!!)   It is functional rather than "gold-plated" but serves my requirements well.

 

My purpose for posting this in so much detail is to suggest that anyone can "project manage" something like this yourself.  My background is Chemical Engineering, so although I have no building trade experience, I am well versed in proper planning and providing enough detail that there were relatively few surprises.

 

btw - my estimate of his workers costs allowed me to ensure that he'd made a small profit in addition to his daily wage.   Overall the total labour cost was almost exactly the same as the materials.  

[carlyai]

From my own experience, and posts from people that have built; time and time again it is reported that you must be present during the build. I would say, all the build, as just when you think all is going along smoothly, you go away for a week, and crap has happened.

As an example, I'm into the final stages of a swimming pool build and been working with this one great tradesman for months, then I'm watching the other day and he has decided not to use the mask I bought to apply a sealer. He'd been wearing the mask before, so he had the large fan on the wall area as he was applying the sealer, which I thought was wrong and corrected him, but if I wasn't here, I wouldn't have known, and maybe the tiles may have come loose.



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[sandyf]

On 8/8/2017 at 3:23 PM, steve73 said:

I designed and built a small extension to an existing small bungalow in 2008.  The original bungalow was a simple one room plus bathroom, 6m x 6m, with a 1.5m wide balcony around 3 sides, all covered with cement sheet pitched roof with a 1.5m overhang, and a large 6m x 4m lean-to Thai-style kitchen at one end.  This had been built by the previous owner in 2005.

 

My extension was 6m x 8m built over 3 levels.  Garage/storage on the lower level.  3 bedrooms /2 bathrooms on the middle level with a 1.5m wide balcony continuing around 2 sides.  And a full sized roof deck partially covered complete with crenelations, with stairs leading upto it from the original bungalow balcony.  It is now effectively two separate buildings with the stairs to the upper level in between.

 

I sketched out what I wanted in reasonable detail and estimated the total cost of ALL materials.  I invited bids from 3 sets of builders, requiring a commitment of how long it would take and a stage payment profile.

 

One of the bids was twice the other, the 3rd didn't even bother.  Since the lowest was from the local "builder" who had built the original bungalow to a reasonable standard for the price, I decided to go with him.  His estimate was 2 months, and wanted 3 stage payments; ground floor level, top level and final.  I suggested he re-estimate the duration as I was going to deduct 3% per week late completion.

 

Since I lived in the existing bungalow, I was on-site every day. After a few early "discussions" about keeping the site tidy (as it was my access route), he quickly learned to consult me on any matter, including giving me a few day notice of when materials would be required to be delivered.   I also kept a full record of the number of his workers each day, and any days missed due to weather.

 

All in all, it went reasonably well.  We were about 3 weeks late (but we lost about 15 days due to weather), although I didn't make any deductions.  I'd made a couple of earlier part- payments as well to help him pay his workers, and there were a couple of "specialist" trades that he wanted extra for (ceiling board installer & electrician), which I reluctantly agreed to part-fund.  Most of the materials had gone up in price due to the oil price, some ,such as steel by around 30%, and some of my estimates e.g. for bulks (sand, stone & cement) were a little on the light side.  This increase to the cost of materials since my original estimate had eaten well into my contingency allowance, and I scrimped by using a much cheaper paint than I had originally planned (which was my major mistake... I should have spent the extra few thousand baht per pot!!)   It is functional rather than "gold-plated" but serves my requirements well.

 

My purpose for posting this in so much detail is to suggest that anyone can "project manage" something like this yourself.  My background is Chemical Engineering, so although I have no building trade experience, I am well versed in proper planning and providing enough detail that there were relatively few surprises.

 

btw - my estimate of his workers costs allowed me to ensure that he'd made a small profit in addition to his daily wage.   Overall the total labour cost was almost exactly the same as the materials.  

Pretty much as we did, certainly a lot to be said for being on site every day. Even good builders can make mistakes and I picked up a few before they became irreversible. The house is cavity wall construction and one of the biggest problems was getting the workers to stop using the cavity as a rubbish bin, in the beginning had to go round every night and clear it out.

[Alantct]

On 8/5/2017 at 10:16 AM, Artisi said:

Big house so it won't come cheap. A few years since I built and haven't kept up todate on costs, but expect to pay

Bht 20 / 25 000 + per square metre for quality and to an acceptable western standard. 

You need to research builders and their work. 

Count on at least 12 months from start to finish. 

What area are you located? 

I would have to disagree with those figures and time frame.

We build here in Thailand and have done for the past 7 years and we build to very high quality and conform to European standards. Especially for electrics etc. We are now on house number 56 and we have also built dozens of pools, offices, warehouses etc and I can say without doubt that 12 months is a crazy time frame for a house. I appreciate that many Thai companies drag their heels and tend to have a few jobs on the go and move their staff on a daily basis but with us we stay on site from start to finish and an average completion time is about 4-6 months depending on the size. We would come in cheaper than 20k per square meter and you would get an extremely high quality product and finish. Our teams are assigned to one project at a time so their is no messing about with deadlines. The  start date and  completion time frame are agreed on when we book the job and will only vary by maybe a few weeks max depending on things like weather. Feel free to drop me a pm if you like and check out our website which is listed on my profile.

 

Best regards

 

Alan

[SGD]

Many thanks for all the responses. I will try to cover a few of the points raised.

 

Good architect, good builder, good crew, good trades. All very sensible but as you know, they simply don't exist in any great number. Time might allow me to find one but we don't have any so far.

 

Plans - well, my usual architects in the west do that sort of thing. What do Thai architects do then if not plans ?

 

Past topics. Yes, valid point but lots of area specific or out of date figures. Also, most for single storey 2/3 bed places often built to Thai specification.

 

Project manager. Absolutely but family or local Somchai is not the answer. Might as well ask the chickens. In truth, for day to day stuff, it is either me or a professional.

 

Using builders and paying a premium. A premium of what ? 20% ? 50% ? 100% ? 200 % ? Without qualification then you don't know. Let's imagine for now a build cost of 10m. Now if I could bring that down to 9m by flogging my guts out every day until it was finished then I wouldn't consider that worthwhile. However, if the builder wanted 10m when costs plus a decent profit were 5m then I wouldn't bother as I don't think such profit margins are what I am prepared to pay. I already have a house 1km away so I am not exactly living on the street.

 

I can't live with a "it will cost xyz per sqm" figure without a complete breakdown, right down to the last nail if needs be. Why ? because a professional should know and elsewhere I'd have a building estimator go over any figures provided by a builder. I find it amazing that bags of cement I can buy for £5 are in the estimate at £15 

 

I also have a bit of an issue with builders who think they "deserve" to make a profit on buying supplies. Small numbers are ok but not huge percentages but if a builder won't play ball and you still want to use him (why though I am not sure ?) then surely this is where your project manager earns their corn ?

 

I find I am somewhat demanding upfront but given the work put in beforehand, I am an easy client during the build process, unless the contractor deviates from the agreed plan. In essence, sort it all out beforehand and you have fewer problems when onsite.

[carlyai]

If you can get a good price from Alan or another reputable builder, go for it.

I've built a house, with day and job labour, and am now finishing a pool. It is stressful and all consuming, and the way to go is get a proper builder to do it all.


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[thaibeachlovers]

While there is no way in this lifetime I would do what you want to, unless I was building it myself ( too much experience of so called "tradesmen" ), I have some valid suggestions for the house itself if it is you that will be "retiring" in it.

 

Few people look to the day that THEY will be unable to walk/ climb stairs, but it usually happens to all of us eventually.

It is far, far cheaper to design/ build an accessible house, than modify an existing one.

Not saying you should put a stairlift in at the start, but build it so you can add one if necessary. No unnecessary steps. Accessible bathroom. Halls and doors wide enough for a wheelchair.

Floods-never say never.

Rural- need covered parking and underhouse space for the gossips.

Security- window bars etc.

Think about having fan cooling through the roof space.

I get having an ensuite for your bedroom, but for everyone? Really?

If you do make it all ensuite, I hope you remember one is necessary for visitors as well. My BIL constructed a separate bathroom outside the house, which worked well.

Ceilings- my inlaws had plaster board with silly steel strips for support. Impossible to reach the dead rat on the other side of the ceiling from the crawl space.

Roofing material- that fiber cement type they like is rubbish to maintain. Too weak to walk on.

 

Finally, have nothing to do with gully drainage between different roofs. My in laws had that and it was constantly blocking from wind blown leaves, resulting in rain water coming through the ceiling.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 1:06 PM, Alantct said:

I would have to disagree with those figures and time frame.

We build here in Thailand and have done for the past 7 years and we build to very high quality and conform to European standards. Especially for electrics etc. We are now on house number 56 and we have also built dozens of pools, offices, warehouses etc and I can say without doubt that 12 months is a crazy time frame for a house. I appreciate that many Thai companies drag their heels and tend to have a few jobs on the go and move their staff on a daily basis but with us we stay on site from start to finish and an average completion time is about 4-6 months depending on the size. We would come in cheaper than 20k per square meter and you would get an extremely high quality product and finish. Our teams are assigned to one project at a time so their is no messing about with deadlines. The  start date and  completion time frame are agreed on when we book the job and will only vary by maybe a few weeks max depending on things like weather. Feel free to drop me a pm if you like and check out our website which is listed on my profile.

 

Best regards

 

Alan

I see you are fond of the LETHAL shiny floor tiles! A drop of water on them and a broken hip for an elderly person. I'd never have shiny floor tiles if I was building a house.

Also, the washbasin in your photo is not accessible for anyone in a wheelchair.

I know Thailand isn't into health and safety, or the disabled, but it's long past time they started to be.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎8‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 0:29 PM, mfd101 said:

 

 

Having a falang project manager would be a great idea, providing he has relevant experience in Thailand.

 

 

 

from the trivial (toilet paper holders carefully placed so you need to have the agility of a 10-year-old to reach them)

How do they get a work permit? It's not like Thai project managers aren't available. I'm just curious.

Anyway, to do a house out in the Thai sticks, surely they'd be asking big bucks?

 

Toilet paper holders- strewth! Not just in Thailand. I have rarely been in any public toilet where they are put in the proper place, anywhere in the world that I've been. Gimme strength!

[mfd101]

The take-away lesson for me - after a 15-month construction at least some of which was hellish because of local incompetence & inability to realize or admit they didn't know what they were doing - was that falang planners & project managers may be more expensive at the start, but you're more than likely to make up for that in time & peace of mind gained, plus a better finish on the end product.

[Alantct]

I see you are fond of the LETHAL shiny floor tiles! A drop of water on them and a broken hip for an elderly person. I'd never have shiny floor tiles if I was building a house.
Also, the washbasin in your photo is not accessible for anyone in a wheelchair.
I know Thailand isn't into health and safety, or the disabled, but it's long past time they started to be.

All can be modified to order, we have built floors with all sorts of surfaces and sinks of all heights [emoji4]
We have done plenty of non slip floors and disabled and elderly accessible homes. We just give the client what they want, we can't force them to think to the future [emoji4]
It's not about what I am "fond" of it's about the client getting what they ask for.


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[Rc2702]

Watch the countless youtube videos first.

 

https://m.youtube.com/results?q=house build thailand&sm=1