Ireland floats special EU-UK customs union as way to break Brexit logjam

[wakeupplease]

On 8/5/2017 at 11:21 AM, dunroaming said:

Quite right(ish).  The EU have stated their position over a Brexit payment and the British have yet to agree a figure.  And yes the EU have said that that issue needs to be agreed before the next stage.  No rocket science and both sides need to reach an agreement post haste.  The issue over the court is whether the high court in Britain is the final appeal court or whether to keep the European Court of Justice as the Highest.  Why is that a sticking point?  What hope is there for the serious matters if we cannot get past this?

 

And yes I do think the EU want Brexit to fail along with 48+% of Brits.  It damages the EU and the UK, there are no winners here.  As for turmoil in Britain, it is here now and growing every day!  We are a country divided and as the reality of what Brexit actually means the divisions are likely to get worse.

I just cannot see your Divided yes there are those with big mouths who for their own financial reasons want to stay but until you show me that 48% is a majority then I have to disagree with you. This ain't Thailand you know. Go and ask you Mom and dad what it was like before we joined the common market and I said common Market not EU. Products where cheaper and better quality and we where not told who we could buy from. The UK in recent years became the no1 place to emigrate to for one good reason, its also now the No1 place to leave due to Brexit which for many is good news.

 

I just wonder what people are scared about we buy more from them than they buy from us, so if they jack up the prices of our exports we do like Thai does 325% import tax on Mercs, BMW, Audi and so on. Then do as Thai did say you want to sell here build a factory and make your products here (Creating Employment). Then just remind them our new free-trade deals mean they will be able to sell in those country's also. We also supply most of the worlds intelligence, so let them set up their own GCHQ.

 

The UK has survived two world wars so this lot is not a problem and if I remember France and Germany plus others have never paid us back in money or kind for those wars.

 

No brainier drop them asap.

[Scott]

A post and reply with a racial slur have been removed.  

[smedly]

4 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

I totally get it thanks.

You just miss the point.

I agree with all your other comments, but you just don't seem to be able to understand what I am talking about.

I'll give you a clue: It is about the Republic and the island of Ireland not the mainland.

If Dublin airport has no immigration for direct flights from anywhere outside the UK I am horrified!

But this seems to be your main contention.

Is it true then the Republic do not check who comes and goes at all other ports of entry the same as the north/south border?

If it really is as you suggest, anyone from anywhere in the world can enter the UK via the Republic as things stand.

Is that right? It is what you say!

Can you fly from the US, Turkey or  the middle east, Asia etc to Dublin and enter the Republic without passport checks?

(Never mind customs.)

 

I think we are on the same side here but seem to have some wires crossed, and it is not just me I am sure.

The N/S border is a difficult problem to solve without a trade agreement, but far worse if the Republic has no immigration/border control at any port of entry for anyone from anywhere, not just the cross N/S traffic.

Even arriving in Belfast on a connecting flight from outside the UK must involve immigration checks somewhere... PLEASE!

 

As I said we seem to be on the same side, but what you say has me flabbergasted and worried at the Republic's immigration system, or no system if it is as  you tell me!?

 

 

 

if you (as an American) fly from the US to Dublin you will go through immigration and customs, you will then be free to travel between the Republic of Ireland and the UK without being checked, if you then go to Heathrow to get a flight to Turkey you will  be required to have the correct travel docs for Turkey and go through Immigration checks. If you get a train to Scotland then no checks and no customs.

 

You will always need photo ID to identify yourself at an airport which is usually a passport or a recognised form of photo ID - this is for security at airports 

 

If you arrive in London from the US (as a UK citizen) you will be in the "International Arrivals Section" which is divided into EU and None EU passport holders and will be checked accordingly and will have to pass through customs, if you then want to travel within the UK or to the ROI you will no longer be checked as it is classed as Domestic.

 

The Republic of Ireland is a separate country and is part of the EU, there are currently no travel restrictions to travel to the UK from ROI - if flying you will need photo ID for security usually a passport but is classed as domestic travel - I would assume going to France from the UK would be similar but as a none UK/EU citizen may be different - you may need a separate visa for France, the free travel area is for EU citizens only, when the UK leaves the EU it will no longer be part of the EU free travel area but special status between Republic of Ireland and the UK will remain for Irish Nationals who have always been free to travel and work in the UK, that means none Irish nationals will be checked at all UK borders.

 

As for trading across the land border between ROI and N. Ireland well I would assume that a special permit will be authorised or it will come under the new free trading and customs arrangement between the EU and the UK - that is yet to be determined and why it is impossible to solve one without the other but the EU negotiators are insisting it is - which is impossible lol 

[7by7]

21 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

 

Quote

 

On ‎10‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 0:25 AM, The Old Bull said:

Brexit may keep out the polacks but the golliwogs and camel humpers will keep comming.

 

I understand your concern, but once out of the blood sucking EU we can implement an immigration policy to suit the UK....... 

What you obviously fail to comprehend is that the EU does not and never has had as any say or control over a member state's immigration policy, law and rules as they apply to non EEA nationals; unless the person concerned is a qualifying family member of an EEA national and accompanying or joining said EEA national. (Yes, I know it's complicated, but I've done my best to keep it simple for you.)

 

Unfortunately, there are still people who believe otherwise, and voted Leave purely, as one idiot quoted in the media at the time put it, "to stop the Pakis coming here!"

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

15 hours ago, smedly said:

if you (as an American) fly from the US to Dublin you will go through immigration and customs, you will then be free to travel between the Republic of Ireland and the UK without being checked, if you then go to Heathrow to get a flight to Turkey you will  be required to have the correct travel docs for Turkey and go through Immigration checks. If you get a train to Scotland then no checks and no customs.

 

You will always need photo ID to identify yourself at an airport which is usually a passport or a recognised form of photo ID - this is for security at airports 

 

If you arrive in London from the US (as a UK citizen) you will be in the "International Arrivals Section" which is divided into EU and None EU passport holders and will be checked accordingly and will have to pass through customs, if you then want to travel within the UK or to the ROI you will no longer be checked as it is classed as Domestic.

 

The Republic of Ireland is a separate country and is part of the EU, there are currently no travel restrictions to travel to the UK from ROI - if flying you will need photo ID for security usually a passport but is classed as domestic travel - I would assume going to France from the UK would be similar but as a none UK/EU citizen may be different - you may need a separate visa for France, the free travel area is for EU citizens only, when the UK leaves the EU it will no longer be part of the EU free travel area but special status between Republic of Ireland and the UK will remain for Irish Nationals who have always been free to travel and work in the UK, that means none Irish nationals will be checked at all UK borders.

 

As for trading across the land border between ROI and N. Ireland well I would assume that a special permit will be authorised or it will come under the new free trading and customs arrangement between the EU and the UK - that is yet to be determined and why it is impossible to solve one without the other but the EU negotiators are insisting it is - which is impossible lol 

Right!

What you missed though is after the UK leaves the EU then people arriving in the mainland (or into Northern Ireland other than by land from the south) from the island of Ireland, will have to join the queue for foreign nationals as there will no longer be a queue for UK & EU passports.

Also  at the most common ports of entry from all of Ireland the queue should be renamed "UK & Irish Republic" passports (maybe at all passport controls).

I agree about the special customs deal, that is the key to the border problem and they know it, but the EU will not talk about that yet.

Staying in the EU Customs Union is not being, and should not be considered.

 

I hope we have cleared up that misunderstanding as I normally do like your posts.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

What you obviously fail to comprehend is that the EU does not and never has had as any say or control over a member state's immigration policy, law and rules as they apply to non EEA nationals; unless the person concerned is a qualifying family member of an EEA national and accompanying or joining said EEA national. (Yes, I know it's complicated, but I've done my best to keep it simple for you.)

 

Unfortunately, there are still people who believe otherwise, and voted Leave purely, as one idiot quoted in the media at the time put it, "to stop the Pakis coming here!"

By that I hope you are not implying Leave voters are a bunch of thickos as has been said before.

The UK policy on ex-colonial subjects is a completely different ball game.

The three million EU subjects that live in the UK  and the thousands more that arrive every month is the question.

It is without any doubt due to the EU "free movement of people policy" and is part of the treaty when a country joins.

Nobody denies immigration is a healthy thing, but controlled immigration is essential.

That is what we need and will regain in 2019.

 

You need to do some better research.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

What you obviously fail to comprehend is that the EU does not and never has had as any say or control over a member state's immigration policy, law and rules as they apply to non EEA nationals; unless the person concerned is a qualifying family member of an EEA national and accompanying or joining said EEA national. (Yes, I know it's complicated, but I've done my best to keep it simple for you.)

 

Unfortunately, there are still people who believe otherwise, and voted Leave purely, as one idiot quoted in the media at the time put it, "to stop the Pakis coming here!"

 

So you're not aware of the EU's policy of forcing distribution of the 1,000,000+ migrants recently taken in by Germany on the rest of it's member states?

[smedly]

2 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Right!

What you missed though is after the UK leaves the EU then people arriving in the mainland (or into Northern Ireland other than by land from the south) from the island of Ireland, will have to join the queue for foreign nationals as there will no longer be a queue for UK & EU passports.

Also  at the most common ports of entry from all of Ireland the queue should be renamed "UK & Irish Republic" passports (maybe at all passport controls).

I agree about the special customs deal, that is the key to the border problem and they know it, but the EU will not talk about that yet.

Staying in the EU Customs Union is not being, and should not be considered.

 

I hope we have cleared up that misunderstanding as I normally do like your posts.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

tell you what, jump on a plane from the UK and fly to Poland or Romania, try to sign on to their benefit system, try to get free healthcare then report back here as to how you got on, oh yes the EU has freedom of movement right ? ....right

 

sorry but if you don't have a job then fkc off, you are not entitled to benefits fkc off oh and we are leaving the EU so fkc off back to Romania or Poland 

 

 

but please feel welcome in the UK if you have a job and are willing to contribute to the UK economy oh and soon to be world economy 

 

PS nothing against Polish people or Romianin - any nationality from the EU 27 should be ecicted if they don't have work

Edited August 11, 2017 by smedly

[smedly]

3 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Right!

What you missed though is after the UK leaves the EU then people arriving in the mainland (or into Northern Ireland other than by land from the south) from the island of Ireland, will have to join the queue for foreign nationals as there will no longer be a queue for UK & EU passports.

Also  at the most common ports of entry from all of Ireland the queue should be renamed "UK & Irish Republic" passports (maybe at all passport controls).

I agree about the special customs deal, that is the key to the border problem and they know it, but the EU will not talk about that yet.

Staying in the EU Customs Union is not being, and should not be considered.

 

I hope we have cleared up that misunderstanding as I normally do like your posts.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

OMG, try to understand that when you talk about the UK it means , England Scotland Wales and N Ireland, it doesn't matter that there is water between them, it is still the UK, you mention the word "mainland" the word has no relevance to this topic, I am not going to comment again on this, - if you can't understand what the "UK" means then I am not going to keep explaining it to you, I have taken the time to answer your questions but you are now seemingly trolling and baiting because you refuse to get the obvious

 

One thing is for sure - there will be a border between the UK and republic of Ireland, how it is managed is not quite so clear but it will be there once the UK leaves the EU, well in fact it has been there all along, just like all 27 EU countries - they all have borders

[7by7]

10 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

By that I hope you are not implying Leave voters are a bunch of thickos as has been said before.

Not all of them, but a significant minority voted through ignorance rather than facts.

 

10 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

The UK policy on ex-colonial subjects is a completely different ball game.

Ex Colonial? The UK's immigration rules apply to all non EEA nationals; whether their country of origin was once part of the British Empire or not. Unless, as said previously, they are qualifying family members of an EEA national.

 

10 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

The three million EU subjects that live in the UK  and the thousands more that arrive every month is the question.

It is without any doubt due to the EU "free movement of people policy" and is part of the treaty when a country joins.

Yes, it is true that there are approximately 3 million EEA nationals exercising a treaty right in the UK; most of whom are workers or the family of workers and so contributing to the UK economy.

 

Unlike the majority of the approx. 1.5 million British nationals exercising a treaty right in other member states, who are retired.

 

All of which is, of course, due to the Freedom of Movement Directive; but  how much do you actually know about that? 

 

I say 'EEA' rather than 'EU' when talking about the directive; do you know why? (Although to be totally accurate I should say the EEA and Switzerland!)

 

For an EEA national to live in another member state for more than three months they must be exercising a treaty right; do you know what they are?

 

As you are someone who believes there are internal borders and immigration control within the UK; I doubt it. It is you who should do more research.

 

In that research you will find that whilst Polish nationals are the largest group of EEA nationals exercising FoM treaty rights in the UK, you may be surprised to discover where the second largest group are from; the Republic of Ireland.

 

[7by7]

9 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

So you're not aware of the EU's policy of forcing distribution of the 1,000,000+ migrants recently taken in by Germany on the rest of it's member states?

I am well aware of attempts by the EU to 'force' quotas on to member states; but your figures are well off!

EU migration showdown: divide deepens after Brussels launches legal action against Hungary, Poland and Czech Republic

Quote

The move against the three eastern member states by the European Commission came after they refused to accept any migrants as part of an EU-wide relocation plan for 160,000 migrants.

But in order to stay, those migrants will have to satisfy the hosts country's own asylum procedures.

[smedly]

14 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

I am well aware of attempts by the EU to 'force' quotas on to member states; but your figures are well off!

EU migration showdown: divide deepens after Brussels launches legal action against Hungary, Poland and Czech Republic

But in order to stay, those migrants will have to satisfy the hosts country's own asylum procedures.

Do you think it is ok for Romainians to travel to Ireland and beg on the streets

[Khun Han]

31 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

I am well aware of attempts by the EU to 'force' quotas on to member states; but your figures are well off!

EU migration showdown: divide deepens after Brussels launches legal action against Hungary, Poland and Czech Republic

But in order to stay, those migrants will have to satisfy the hosts country's own asylum procedures.

 

No, my figures are fine wrt the numbers taken in by Germany. And It's my understanding that the UK was expected to take about 300,000 of them if we remained in the EU.

 

Whatever happens to to these migrants once they are forced upon member states is anyone's guess, and it is bound to be a huge mess and burden for the receiving countries. But the point is that your assertion that the EU doesn't interfere with it's member states' immigration policies is plain wrong.

[Grouse]

10 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

No, my figures are fine wrt the numbers taken in by Germany. And It's my understanding that the UK was expected to take about 300,000 of them if we remained in the EU.

 

Whatever happens to to these migrants once they are forced upon member states is anyone's guess, and it is bound to be a huge mess and burden for the receiving countries. But the point is that your assertion that the EU doesn't interfere with it's member states' immigration policies is plain wrong.

300,000? Back up info please!

[7by7]

50 minutes ago, smedly said:

Do you think it is ok for Romainians to travel to Ireland and beg on the streets

No; but if they are doing so then they are not exercising a treaty right and so breaking the law.

[citybiker]

Do you think it is ok for Romainians to travel to Ireland and beg on the streets

Begging instead of travelling to 'work' like their fellow Romanian's.

How many countries do they cross before getting to Ireland?

The UK has seen an influx of these Eastern European beggars on the streets, at road junction, traffic lights begging, if citizens don't encourage them they'll move to where it's more lucrative.

Hopefully to another Country, like they're own.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[7by7]

36 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

No, my figures are fine wrt the numbers taken in by Germany. And It's my understanding that the UK was expected to take about 300,000 of them if we remained in the EU.

 

Whatever happens to to these migrants once they are forced upon member states is anyone's guess, and it is bound to be a huge mess and burden for the receiving countries. But the point is that your assertion that the EU doesn't interfere with it's member states' immigration policies is plain wrong.

 As I said, whilst the EU may have set quotas, once in the host country the refugees/migrants will have to satisfy that country's asylum rules, set by that country's government not the EU, in order to be allowed to stay.

 

What don't you understand about that?

 

BTW, can you provide a source for you German figures, the largest figure I can find is less than three quarters of your figure.

[smedly]

29 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

No; but if they are doing so then they are not exercising a treaty right and so breaking the law.

There is no "if" about it, they are on the streets across the UK and Ireland ................................. begging amongst other things

 

The German EU is just fine - right ?, well it is for Germany

[Khun Han]

8 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 As I said, whilst the EU may have set quotas, once in the host country the refugees/migrants will have to satisfy that country's asylum rules, set by that country's government not the EU, in order to be allowed to stay.

 

What don't you understand about that?

 

BTW, can you provide a source for you German figures, the largest figure I can find is less than three quarters of your figure.

 

I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make here other than trying to win an argument. you stated that the EU doesn't interfere with the immigration processes of member states. I pointed out that it does, and you countered that it doesn't interfere with the processing of migrants once they are in a member country. But that's irrelevent because the EU has interfered hugely in forcing member states to accept the migrants in the first place. And, from a practical point of view, once the migrants are there, even the ones who can be 'weeded out' will stay for years and years on appeal all the way to the EU courts. All this for countries that explicitily didn't want them in the first place, but were forced to take them by the EU in order to help Germany out from a problem of it's own creation.

 

The figure for Germany's intake being claimed was actually 1.1 million, now corrected to 890,000, not that it changes the core point that the EU is interfering in the immigration processes of member states:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/09/30/germany-said-it-took-in-more-than-1-million-refugees-last-year-but-it-didnt/?utm_term=.fa1ffac71608

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

21 hours ago, smedly said:

OMG, try to understand that when you talk about the UK it means , England Scotland Wales and N Ireland, it doesn't matter that there is water between them, it is still the UK, you mention the word "mainland" the word has no relevance to this topic, I am not going to comment again on this, - if you can't understand what the "UK" means then I am not going to keep explaining it to you, I have taken the time to answer your questions but you are now seemingly trolling and baiting because you refuse to get the obvious

 

One thing is for sure - there will be a border between the UK and republic of Ireland, how it is managed is not quite so clear but it will be there once the UK leaves the EU, well in fact it has been there all along, just like all 27 EU countries - they all have borders

I am not trolling or baiting you. I don't disagree with 99% of what you say. I know exactly what the UK is thanks.

I completely agree about the eastern Europeans and the lack of reciprocity. I am not a "Remoaner" and was delighted with the result of the referendum and voted Leave.

As you say there are borders inside the Schengen area now.

I also have a feeling that a north/south Irish land border is unavoidable, but all the possibilities to avoid it have to be examined. I just worry we might go back to the hostilities we had before it was removed in the April 1998 Good Friday Agreement.

 

Basically you don't seem to think my suggestion is workable. I have just tried to explain why I think it could.

 

Okay!

 

I have tried to stick to the topic, which is about the border in Ireland, not England, Scotland and Wales and immigration implications of Brexit to the whole UK.

 

Best we leave it at that.

 

 

Edited August 12, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

14 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Not all of them, but a significant minority voted through ignorance rather than facts.

 

Ex Colonial? The UK's immigration rules apply to all non EEA nationals; whether their country of origin was once part of the British Empire or not. Unless, as said previously, they are qualifying family members of an EEA national.

 

Yes, it is true that there are approximately 3 million EEA nationals exercising a treaty right in the UK; most of whom are workers or the family of workers and so contributing to the UK economy.

 

Unlike the majority of the approx. 1.5 million British nationals exercising a treaty right in other member states, who are retired.

 

All of which is, of course, due to the Freedom of Movement Directive; but  how much do you actually know about that? 

 

I say 'EEA' rather than 'EU' when talking about the directive; do you know why? (Although to be totally accurate I should say the EEA and Switzerland!)

 

For an EEA national to live in another member state for more than three months they must be exercising a treaty right; do you know what they are?

 

As you are someone who believes there are internal borders and immigration control within the UK; I doubt it. It is you who should do more research.

 

In that research you will find that whilst Polish nationals are the largest group of EEA nationals exercising FoM treaty rights in the UK, you may be surprised to discover where the second largest group are from; the Republic of Ireland.

 

You should be careful not to fall off that "High Horse" you are riding.

You need to look back. The Irish Republic and the "Colonial" immigration was way before the "FoM" was introduces by the EU for EEA members. The EEA indeed does include the Swiss, but you have to be in the EU or Efta to apply. The framework of all the European Treaties are complex, but don't be fooled, it is all part of the same con trick.

I know how many eastern Europeans live where and how many. Do you live near one of their ghettos in England, France, Sweden etc?

 

What is wrong with visas and work permits?

 

This is after all a Thai forum, and we all need visas and permits to stay here.

 

I think your saddle is loose.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[smedly]

7 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

I am not trolling or baiting you. I don't disagree with 99% of what you say. I know exactly what the UK is thanks.

I completely agree about the eastern Europeans and the lack of reciprocity. I am not a "Remoaner" and was delighted with the result of the referendum and voted Leave.

As you say there are borders inside the Schengen area now.

I also have a feeling that a north/south Irish land border is unavoidable, but all the possibilities to avoid it have to be examined. I just worry we might go back to the hostilities we had before it was removed in the April 1998 Good Friday Agreement.

 

Basically you don't seem to think my suggestion is workable. I have just tried to explain why I think it could.

 

Okay!

 

I have tried to stick to the topic, which is about the border in Ireland, not England, Scotland and Wales and immigration implications of Brexit to the whole UK.

 

Best we leave it at that.

 

 

fair enough

 

I don't think the any of this will affect the GFA, nobody has a stomach for returning to violence.

 

I think freedom of movement will remain between the UK and Ireland for UK and Irish citizens and also all other aspects of the special relationship that has been active longer than any EU treaties, I also think a free trade agreement will exist regardless of what is agreed at the brexit talks which may or may not go far enough to satisfy the UK/Ireland relationship, it could be managed by giving traders a special permit provided they meet a certain criteria and qualify, I blame the EU negotiation team for making it an issue if the first place - I don't believe it is an issue and never will be.

[Grouse]

21 hours ago, Grouse said:

300,000? Back up info please!

No response so we'll take it as disinformation ??

[dick dasterdly]

On 8/12/2017 at 4:30 AM, smedly said:

tell you what, jump on a plane from the UK and fly to Poland or Romania, try to sign on to their benefit system, try to get free healthcare then report back here as to how you got on, oh yes the EU has freedom of movement right ? ....right

 

sorry but if you don't have a job then fkc off, you are not entitled to benefits fkc off oh and we are leaving the EU so fkc off back to Romania or Poland 

 

 

but please feel welcome in the UK if you have a job and are willing to contribute to the UK economy oh and soon to be world economy 

 

PS nothing against Polish people or Romianin - any nationality from the EU 27 should be ecicted if they don't have work

I agree with some of your post, but NO to "please feel welcome in the UK if you have a job".

 

Offered a job as a result of a skills shortage - fair enough (although I'd be looking to the UK govt. as to how this skills shortage was allowed to develop.....).

 

Those on minimum wage (if that...) - they're just keeping wages low for those at the bottom, and those further up the chain.  And whilst this makes employees cheaper - there's not a tax gain, as UK workers would have been doing those jobs and paying the tax.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

16 hours ago, smedly said:

fair enough

 

I don't think the any of this will affect the GFA, nobody has a stomach for returning to violence.

 

I think freedom of movement will remain between the UK and Ireland for UK and Irish citizens and also all other aspects of the special relationship that has been active longer than any EU treaties, I also think a free trade agreement will exist regardless of what is agreed at the brexit talks which may or may not go far enough to satisfy the UK/Ireland relationship, it could be managed by giving traders a special permit provided they meet a certain criteria and qualify, I blame the EU negotiation team for making it an issue if the first place - I don't believe it is an issue and never will be.

I echo your thoughts, I hope it works out.

G

[7by7]

On ‎12‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 5:29 PM, Khun Han said:

 

<snip>

I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make here other than trying to win an argument

The point I'm trying, and in your case obviously failing, to make is that each member state has it's own rules for non EEA immigration; including asylum seekers.

 

 

[7by7]

On ‎12‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 10:01 PM, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

You should be careful not to fall off that "High Horse" you are riding.

You need to look back. The Irish Republic and the "Colonial" immigration was way before the "FoM" was introduces by the EU for EEA members. The EEA indeed does include the Swiss, but you have to be in the EU or Efta to apply. The framework of all the European Treaties are complex, but don't be fooled, it is all part of the same con trick.

I know how many eastern Europeans live where and how many. Do you live near one of their ghettos in England, France, Sweden etc?

 

What is wrong with visas and work permits?

 

This is after all a Thai forum, and we all need visas and permits to stay here.

 

I think your saddle is loose.

 

What are you wittering on about now?

 

You brought up what you called 'ex colonial immigration; I merely corrected your misapprehension over the UK's immigration rules. Then did the same with your misapprehension on the workings of the FoM directive.

 

But then your response to me and previous ones to Smedley when he corrected your misapprehension about there being a border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, indicate you obviously don't care for being corrected!

 

There is nothing wrong with visas and work permits; but the UK currently has two international agreements where neither are required. One with the EU, which covers EEA members and Switzerland as well, and a much older one with the Republic of Ireland, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man. Of course, British citizens benefit from these as well. 

 

The question is what will happen to both, especially the latter, post Brexit.

 

If you want an intelligent discussion on this; fine. But if instead you again merely resort to petty insults, I wont bother responding.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

The point I'm trying, and in your case obviously failing, to make is that each member state has it's own rules for non EEA immigration; including asylum seekers.

 

 

 

Nope. The point you were originally trying to make was that the EU doesn't interfere in member countries' immigration policies, and I pointed out why you were wrong. Your subsequent point about the EU not interfering in member countries' asylum processing procedures was a backtrack. You have proven me wrong a few times in previous debates, and I have been happy to learn and concede. It seems it's all about winning for you. And my post that you partially quoted was not overly long. No need to butcher it.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

What are you wittering on about now?

 

You brought up what you called 'ex colonial immigration; I merely corrected your misapprehension over the UK's immigration rules. Then did the same with your misapprehension on the workings of the FoM directive.

 

But then your response to me and previous ones to Smedley when he corrected your misapprehension about there being a border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, indicate you obviously don't care for being corrected!

 

There is nothing wrong with visas and work permits; but the UK currently has two international agreements where neither are required. One with the EU, which covers EEA members and Switzerland as well, and a much older one with the Republic of Ireland, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man. Of course, British citizens benefit from these as well. 

 

The question is what will happen to both, especially the latter, post Brexit.

 

If you want an intelligent discussion on this; fine. But if instead you again merely resort to petty insults, I wont bother responding.

 

Did you notice that George and Smedly resolved their differences amicably? Your debates nearly always descend into acrimony.

[smedly]

The are a couple of points worth mentioning here 

 

- The EU played no part in the Good Friday Agreement, it really is none of their business and should never have been mentioned at all.

 

- The UK and Ireland have had a special arrangement long before any EU treaties were signed

 

- It is up to the republic of Ireland and the UK to determine how the borders and relationship are handled once the UK leaves the EU, the only part the EU will play is whether they allow a member state to have a special arrangement with a none EU country outside of existing EU treaties, it is in fact the EU that could stand in the way of Ireland reaching any sort of agreement with the UK.

 

- Future EU Customs and Trade agreements with the UK could determine any future relationship with the UK and the ROI so it is actually up to the EU to make sure that it works out of the box or they allow the Republic of Ireland and the UK to have a separate arrangement - they could in fact block it, so the ball is firmly in their court as to what they will allow within EU rules, it certainly would be no fault of the UK or ROI if the EU decides against it.

 

All of this discussion is mute because it is up to the EU to decide if Ireland and the UK can continue with their special relationship once the UK has left the EU, it is up to the ROI to get approval from the EU dictators, the UK will not be blocking anything, so lets put this issue right were it belongs.