Wife's Thai I.D. wrong name......after 29 years???

[skatewash]

On 8/11/2017 at 11:35 AM, Tanoshi said:

In theory Yes, in practice, No.

 

When the Thai tries to re-enter using their Thai ID, they have no exit stamp, or entry card.

The puzzled IO asks how they managed to leave the Country.

Foreign passport, with exit stamp.

The IO insists that since they left on a foreign passport and there is no record of departing as a Thai, the same passport must be used to re-enter, and so the circle continues.

As a holder of a Thai passport surely she could take advantage of the automatic entry gates when re-entering the country, no?

[kokesaat]

My wife of 43 years is a US citizen, here on a US passport with my last name, but has a Thai ID card and bluebook with her maiden name.  She's obtained 20 annual extensions while I renew my retirement extension.  No issues.  

 

I know plenty of dual citizen Thais who enter Thailand on their Thai passport and the US on their US passport......but we chose not to do so as it just seemed too confusing when we first arrived 21 years ago.  It still seems confusing.....and the 1900 baht for my wife's annual extension is a small price to pay for less confusion in life.  

 

Of course, if we face the same situation as the op is facing, we may reconsider.  

[lopburi3]

14 minutes ago, kokesaat said:

My wife of 43 years is a US citizen, here on a US passport with my last name, but has a Thai ID card and bluebook with her maiden name.  She's obtained 20 annual extensions while I renew my retirement extension.  No issues.  

 

I know plenty of dual citizen Thais who enter Thailand on their Thai passport and the US on their US passport......but we chose not to do so as it just seemed too confusing when we first arrived 21 years ago.  It still seems confusing.....and the 1900 baht for my wife's annual extension is a small price to pay for less confusion in life.  

 

Of course, if we face the same situation as the op is facing, we may reconsider.  

The OP seems to be using spouse of retirement holder as reason for her extension (as a non Thai spouse would require).  She should be able to extend as having had Thai nationality and expect that is what most such couples use.  Is this perhaps how your wife extends?  There is no confusion once here as a Thai - no need for any immigration contact at all after that is done.

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 8/14/2017 at 6:05 PM, Maestro said:

 

 

I see. Your daughter got a UK passport first and travelled with that until she later got her Thai passport. Somewhat unusual, but nothing legally wrong with that.

 

The immigration officer was initially a bit confused because for a Thai national born in Thailand, the first stamp in her passport is usually a Thai exit stamp. This is assuming that your daughter was born in Thailand, since you did not mention her place of birth. You see, your daughter's Thai passport has no information that she also has a UK passport with which she left Thailand, hence the immigration official's initial confusion. Quite understandable, I should think.

I agree it was understandable that the IO would be slightly puzzled but the main point I was trying to make was that it doesn't necessarily cause any problems if a person enters Thailand with a Thai passport that doesn't contain an exit stamp nor cause them to be forced to enter on their foreign passport as was implied by someone in an earlier post.

[Mattd]

I have to say, how amazingly complicated this extension got really only due to the OP's wife providing the wrong paperwork.

If she is proud to be American and wishes to stay in her native country as an American, having entered Thailand on her US passport, then why on earth did she complicate matters from day one by providing her Thai ID card.

She is seemingly making an extension of stay based on her being a dependant of the OP using her US passport and the OP's extension of stay based on retirement, so why even provide the Thai ID card, she had no need to in the circumstances provided, her proof of identity in this case is her US passport, as that is what she entered in to Thailand on and wishes to remain here with.

I'd understand it if she was applying for the extension of stay based on her being a Thai citizen.

 

Thinking about it, the only other possible reason that I can fathom for producing the Thai ID card is that they are both residing in the house in which she is registered in the Tabien Baan with her maiden name and immigration needed to see this as proof of residence and the name on the Tabien Baan / Thai ID card doesn't tally with the name on the passport, in which case, immigration have every right to ask her to change the name on her Thai ID card / Tabien Baan, the rest regarding embassy visits etc. is BS, must admit, don't really understand why she just doesn't revert to being a Thai citizen here, less hassle and after all they both live here, so can't dislike it that much.

As per another poster, in 1988 it was a requirement to change the surname for a Thai lady marrying a foreigner, so that mistake was made 29 years ago and they are unfortunately paying the price now!

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Mattd said:

I have to say, how amazingly complicated this extension got really only due to the OP's wife providing the wrong paperwork.

If she is proud to be American and wishes to stay in her native country as an American, having entered Thailand on her US passport, then why on earth did she complicate matters from day one by providing her Thai ID card.

She is seemingly making an extension of stay based on her being a dependant of the OP using her US passport and the OP's extension of stay based on retirement, so why even provide the Thai ID card, she had no need to in the circumstances provided, her proof of identity in this case is her US passport, as that is what she entered in to Thailand on and wishes to remain here with.

I'd understand it if she was applying for the extension of stay based on her being a Thai citizen.

 

Thinking about it, the only other possible reason that I can fathom for producing the Thai ID card is that they are both residing in the house in which she is registered in the Tabien Baan with her maiden name and immigration needed to see this as proof of residence and the name on the Tabien Baan / Thai ID card doesn't tally with the name on the passport, in which case, immigration have every right to ask her to change the name on her Thai ID card / Tabien Baan, the rest regarding embassy visits etc. is BS, must admit, don't really understand why she just doesn't revert to being a Thai citizen here, less hassle and after all they both live here, so can't dislike it that much.

As per another poster, in 1988 it was a requirement to change the surname for a Thai lady marrying a foreigner, so that mistake was made 29 years ago and they are unfortunately paying the price now!

All is speculation. However, as I have opined previously in this thread, I think it likely that she has been living in Thailand under an extension of stay based on section 2.23 of Immigration Bureau order 327-2557 (2014) - extension criteria & conditions. This requires proof of "previous" Thai status, and I think they are now refusing to accept a Thai id card issued in a different name from that in the US pasport as proof.

[moe666]

On 8/10/2017 at 10:02 PM, OJAS said:

In which case he'd better brace himself for having to surmount formidable hurdles in communicating with them since immigration officers' grasp of the English language tends to be minimal (at best) or completely non-existent (at worst) in my experience. That is one of the reasons why I always get my wife to accompany me to my local office at retirement extension of stay time.

Never had a problem at immigration getting an extension of stay always just me. My Thai is minimal but never a need for wife.

[Maestro]

4 hours ago, BritTim said:

All is speculation. However, as I have opined previously in this thread, I think it likely that she has been living in Thailand under an extension of stay based on section 2.23 of Immigration Bureau order 327-2557 (2014) - extension criteria & conditions. This requires proof of "previous" Thai status, and I think they are now refusing to accept a Thai id card issued in a different name from that in the US pasport as proof.

 

There is no need to speculate about this at all, because the OP wrote clearly that his wife has been getting and applied again for a retirement extension in her own name, with the same documents as he submitted. The OP's emphasis that his wife goes about referring to herself as "a US citizen, formerly a Thai citizen", or words to that effect, taken out of context could indeed give the impression that she applied for an extension on the basis of previously having been a Thai national, but when others corrected his error and said that his wife applied for a dependent extension based on his retirement extension and cited the relevant clause from the Police Order, the OP accepted this tacitly.

 

The OP has given some confusing and irrational information about his wife's application throughout this topic and I consider it probable that he also misunderstood some of the information the immigration official gave his wife regarding the documents he required this time for her application.

[QuantumMech]

On 8/11/2017 at 0:03 PM, Tanoshi said:

The auto entry gates won't let you enter on a Thai passport, if you didn't exit on that passport.

The bio metric information doesn't match that recorded of a Thai exiting the Country.

 

There is no matching departure card, if you just complete a new arrival card portion.

The barcode on the arrival portion can't match with a record of departure on the same barcode.

 

You will be referred to an IO for entry, in the interest of national security and to confirm your ID.

I entered Thailand earlier today at BKK using the automatic gates using my very first Thai passport, obtained in the US from the Thai Embassy in Washington DC. To this day, I have never exited Thailand with any Thai passport. I'll make my first ever exit on Thai passport in a few weeks. (BTW, the auto gate was great... there was literally nobody else using them, and I got through in less than a minute). The auto gate doesn't even look at your arrival card; it wants a scan of your boarding pass.

 

My mom, who was born in Thailand, but had been entering/exiting Thailand on a US passport for the past 40+ years, also now has a new Thai passport from the Thai Embassy (she reported her passport from 40+ years ago as lost), did have a problem with the auto gate--when she put her passport in, it said something about not being able to read it. According to an official-looking lady who was nearby and took a look at my mom's passport, the problem with it was that it only has a birth year, but no month or day, which apparently disqualifies her from using the auto gate. I guess when she was born out in the country 70+ years ago, registering an exact date of birth wasn't a priority; all of her Thai ID docs only have a birth year with no month or day. She had to go wait in line to speak to an IO, who did question the lack of an exit stamp, but after she explained that she lost her passport while overseas and had to get a new one, she was let in (although apparently he was skeptical about the whole thing... I was already off to baggage claim while my mom was in line so I don't know exactly what he said, but I had already coached my mom on what to say if the auto gate didn't work and we had to go talk to an IO).

 

P.S. The entry stamp in my mom's passport says Admitted 17 AUG 2017 (stamped) and Until 17/8/2017 (handwritten date), with something reminiscent of a cursive "S" above the 2017. Is the Until date being the same as the Admitted date normal/expected for an entry stamp in a Thai passport? I seem to remember when I was getting US entry stamps in my US passport, it was just stamped with the entry date and no "Until" date. The handwritten Until date seems weird to me, but I have to assume it's fine... there's obviously no way she can be overstaying.

Edited August 17, 2017 by QuantumMech
Added the PS

[Tanoshi]

12 hours ago, QuantumMech said:

I entered Thailand earlier today at BKK using the automatic gates using my very first Thai passport, obtained in the US from the Thai Embassy in Washington DC. To this day, I have never exited Thailand with any Thai passport. I'll make my first ever exit on Thai passport in a few weeks. (BTW, the auto gate was great... there was literally nobody else using them, and I got through in less than a minute). The auto gate doesn't even look at your arrival card; it wants a scan of your boarding pass.

 

My mom, who was born in Thailand, but had been entering/exiting Thailand on a US passport for the past 40+ years, also now has a new Thai passport from the Thai Embassy (she reported her passport from 40+ years ago as lost), did have a problem with the auto gate--when she put her passport in, it said something about not being able to read it. According to an official-looking lady who was nearby and took a look at my mom's passport, the problem with it was that it only has a birth year, but no month or day, which apparently disqualifies her from using the auto gate. I guess when she was born out in the country 70+ years ago, registering an exact date of birth wasn't a priority; all of her Thai ID docs only have a birth year with no month or day. She had to go wait in line to speak to an IO, who did question the lack of an exit stamp, but after she explained that she lost her passport while overseas and had to get a new one, she was let in (although apparently he was skeptical about the whole thing... I was already off to baggage claim while my mom was in line so I don't know exactly what he said, but I had already coached my mom on what to say if the auto gate didn't work and we had to go talk to an IO).

 

P.S. The entry stamp in my mom's passport says Admitted 17 AUG 2017 (stamped) and Until 17/8/2017 (handwritten date), with something reminiscent of a cursive "S" above the 2017. Is the Until date being the same as the Admitted date normal/expected for an entry stamp in a Thai passport? I seem to remember when I was getting US entry stamps in my US passport, it was just stamped with the entry date and no "Until" date. The handwritten Until date seems weird to me, but I have to assume it's fine... there's obviously no way she can be overstaying.

If your facts are correct;

1. Your saying your Mom entered on a Thai passport, but they've given her a 30 day Visa exempt stamp in her Thai passport.

So she's been allowed entry, but under the conditions of a foreigner, stamped in a Thai passport.

You can't make this stuff up!

2. The until date should be 17th September, not 17th August, which is the date she entered. She is already on overstay according to that date.

If you made a typo with that date, ok, if the IO has made an error with the date you need to visit your local Immigration office to get the date corrected.

 

 

[Maestro]

On 17/08/2017 at 2:29 PM, QuantumMech said:

According to an official-looking lady who was nearby and took a look at my mom's passport, the problem with it was that it only has a birth year, but no month or day, which apparently disqualifies her from using the auto gate. I guess when she was born out in the country 70+ years ago, registering an exact date of birth wasn't a priority; all of her Thai ID docs only have a birth year with no month or day.

 

This happened a lot in the old days and I have seen quite a few Thai passports with only the birth year shown and xx xxx for day and month. At some later point, officials seem to have realised that this can be a problem and started using 01 JAN for day and month on birth certificates when the exact date was unknown. Some people have a registered birth date that is months later than the real date, because their mothers had the presence of mind to tell the district official something like "the child was born on Wednesday last week" when registering the birth unduly late. I have been told that this fib was used to avoid the fine for registering later than within the legally prescribed period after birth.

 

  

[QuantumMech]

11 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

If your facts are correct;

1. Your saying your Mom entered on a Thai passport, but they've given her a 30 day Visa exempt stamp in her Thai passport.

So she's been allowed entry, but under the conditions of a foreigner, stamped in a Thai passport.

You can't make this stuff up!

2. The until date should be 17th September, not 17th August, which is the date she entered. She is already on overstay according to that date.

If you made a typo with that date, ok, if the IO has made an error with the date you need to visit your local Immigration office to get the date corrected.

 

 

 

1. No, I didn't say that at all. The only similarities between a 30 day visa exempt stamp and what my mom has is that they're both entry stamps. I don't know why you think that she got a visa exempt stamp.

 

Visa exempt stamp in US passport from a prior entry: Visa Class e30, Until is stamped with a date of Admitted date + 29 days (since Admitted date counts as one day)

Stamp in Thai passport from most recent entry: Visa Cass blank, Until is handwritten with what appears to be the same date as the Admitted date.

 

2. No, if it were a 30 day visa exempt stamp, which it isn't, the until date would be 15 September. August has 31 days, and as mentioned, the Until would be 29 days later.

 

A Thai national who enters Thailand on a Thai passport can't overstay. While I don't know if the IO made an error, I'm not sure if I (or my mom) particularly cares. Regardless of what's stamped in the passport, she has not violated any laws. I've attached pics of what a visa exempt stamp in her US passport looks like vs. what she got in her Thai passport yesterday.

[Maestro]

On 17/08/2017 at 2:29 PM, QuantumMech said:

The entry stamp in my mom's passport says Admitted 17 AUG 2017 (stamped) and Until 17/8/2017 (handwritten date), with something reminiscent of a cursive "S" above the 2017.

 

The arrival stamp in a Thai passport should never show an "UNTIL" date. At most, there can be a handwritten scribble representing the immigration official's signature next to the stamp. Below is an example of such stamp:

 

[Maestro]

49 minutes ago, QuantumMech said:

A Thai national who enters Thailand on a Thai passport can't overstay. While I don't know if the IO made an error...

 

In my opinion, the immigration official at Suvarnabhumi airport definitely made a mistake by writing that "UNTIL" date into the arrival stamp in your mother's Thai passport. As you said, this date can be ignored without adverse consequences or, if your mother wants to do immigration a favour, she can go to the nearest immigration office and get the mistake corrected. (A social media addict would put it on Facebook, Google+, Twitter, Youtube, Instagram, etc to make immigration "lose face")

[QuantumMech]

14 hours ago, QuantumMech said:

Visa exempt stamp in US passport from a prior entry: Visa Class e30

FWIW, after looking at some other examples of 30 day exempt stamps, it looks like it's actually Visa Class ผ.30, as in ผ่อนผัน 30 วัน, or 30-day allowance/permission.

[GroveHillWanderer]

14 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

In my opinion, the immigration official at Suvarnabhumi airport definitely made a mistake by writing that "UNTIL" date into the arrival stamp in your mother's Thai passport. As you said, this date can be ignored without adverse consequences or, if your mother wants to do immigration a favour, she can go to the nearest immigration office and get the mistake corrected. (A social media addict would put it on Facebook, Google+, Twitter, Youtube, Instagram, etc to make immigration "lose face")

I wonder if that's a common mistake for an IO to make and if so, why? Because that also happened to my daughter when she entered for the first time with her Thai passport. I said she didn't have any particular problems (because it wasn't a major issue and I didn't want to overcomplicate the post) but she also got an 'until' date entered in her passport.  I had the same thought as Maestro and advised her to go to Immigration both to check that it wouldn't cause any problems down the line and to 'fix' the issue - if it needed fixing.

 

I don't know exactly what happened at immigration (I didn't go with her and it was a while ago anyway) but I seem to recall her saying that they told her it was nothing to worry about. I do know she didn't have any problems with it when she left again, several months later. On subsequent entries she never had an 'until' date put in her passport, it was just that first time. It seems a strange coincidence - if that's what it is. 

[QuantumMech]

On 8/18/2017 at 7:49 PM, QuantumMech said:

A Thai national who enters Thailand on a Thai passport can't overstay. While I don't know if the IO made an error, I'm not sure if I (or my mom) particularly cares. Regardless of what's stamped in the passport, she has not violated any laws. 

FWIW, my mom and I are currently at Suvarnabhumi waiting on our flight home (was going to leave earlier, but postponed due to flooding in Houston). There was a lady checking passports (and maybe there to assist too?) at the auto gates, and when she looked at my mom's passport, she said I should escort my mom through the priority lane, since there was no birth month/day.

 

So I didn't get to use the auto gate on my way out, but I did get to hear the IO talk to my mom, and he didn't mention the Until date on her entry stamp at all; his only comment was that my mom looked young for her age :) and he wai-ed her, which my mom thought was amusing. When it was my turn, he said she was still very strong and asked if she lived in Thailand or out of the country. I didn't get a wai :D

 

So as I expected, departure passport control isn't looking for overstays in Thai passports. :)