Foreigners' 'TM6' immigration form necessary for security: Nattorn

[MyFriend You]

21 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

Corruption does not work well with computers that leave logs and traces that lead back to the persons responsible.



Paper with rubber stamps that anyone with access to is much better for letting bad guys in for a price.

Bad guys in, Good guys out.............even little Vietnam gave these up years ago, too much paper

[Fairynuff]

10 hours ago, Thian said:

Is no nonsense sir, it's the first and best chance to ask "how much is your yearly income? " and the government wants to be the first.

It's been quite a few years since I stopped filling in the intrusive questions and never been challenged. My post was about the nonsensical  notion that the form is needed for security reasons 

[Fairynuff]

9 hours ago, Jim7777 said:

I've never been to Vietnam so I don't know about them but Cambodia sure does require them.  I've been to Cambodia multiple times. I haven't been to Malaysia since 2010 so maybe they stopped requiring them I don't know.  Then again I haven't been to Cambodia since 2015 so I guess they might have stopped requiring them I don't know.  I do know that the last times I was in Cambodia and Malaysia they most definitely did require them.  

I haven't been to Cambodia recently but my last few entries by air to SR did not require forms

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, maewang99 said:

in case anyone is wondering why we don't have these things in the hyper security conscious USA.....

we are security conscious... to put it mildly, yes?

Thailand AIN'T more security paranoid than the USA is.

so WHY?


you only know the answer when you can no longer ask WHY.

...... computer software requires creative, literate people. and not many things really are simple. this one is.

i.e. Gates, Zuck and Elon are also famous as avid book readers....

..... ooooo.... I don't know if Bezos is also a book reader, he's not particularly known for his summer book reading lists.. but didn't Amazon begin by selling................. huh! what do ya know.... books!

oooooo.... hee hee!!! :-) :-) :-) hmmmm........
 

so EVERYTIME you see one of these cards, and have to fill one out.... and then make one zillion copies of it and sign it until you get a new one someday................ think about WHY. 

this one is REAL SIMPLE.

:-)





  

"in case anyone is wondering why we don't have these things in the hyper security conscious USA....."

 

Same thing - different format, prior to travel.

 

The Visa Waiver Program (VWP) enables most citizens or nationals of participating countries* to travel to the United States for tourism or business for stays of 90 days or less without first obtaining a visa, when they meet all requirements explained below. Travelers must have a valid Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA) approval prior to travel. If you prefer to have a visa in your passport, you may still apply for a visitor (B) visa.

 

You cannot expect western standards at current eastern prices, will come in due course. I have just paid more for a B&B in the UK than I did in the Holiday Inn Pattaya.

[sandyf]

On 8/11/2017 at 11:21 AM, darksidedog said:

While the comment about people just turning up and the authorities wanting information is fair enough, they have no way of checking on the spot if the information being given is honest, so in itself there is a problem to address. More importantly though, many people coming here do have visas, which means the authorities already have those peoples information. Massive amounts of time and money could be saved if visa holders are exempt from the TM6 and would only be required for those arriving without a visa.

Same thing elsewhere. My wife travels to the UK every year with a visa, has to complete a landing card and be questioned by an immigration officer.

 

Maybe this forum should petition the UK government to abolish landing cards, wonder how that would go down with the brexiteers.

[oldhippy]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Same thing elsewhere. My wife travels to the UK every year with a visa, has to complete a landing card and be questioned by an immigration officer.

 

Maybe this forum should petition the UK government to abolish landing cards, wonder how that would go down with the brexiteers.

 

That is NOT true!

NOT same thing elsewhere.

 

My wife (Thai passport) travels every year with me to Schengenland. No paperwork, no visa, no stamp! Only a Thai card & stamp when she exits Thailand.

[daboyz1]

Actually anytime you enter the country and clear immigration you're automatically already logged in the computer in their immigration database or whatever they call it.  Whenever you enter the country when they take your biometrics you're in the computer system. How do you think they keep track of people on non-o visa extensions?  How do think they keep track of 90 day reporting?  That's also how they would know if you were to remove any stamps from your passport because all your travel is in fact logged in their computers.  Including if you're just here as a tourist.  
 
All foreigners in Thailand are logged into their immigration database otherwise they'd have no way to track us.  For example if you're on a non-o visa or a non-o visa extension and fail to get your next extension on time and just stay here eventually you will be flagged in the computer by immigration as an overstay.  Then eventually the police will be coming to your house looking for you, and as long as you were honest about what your address is on your TM-6 and when doing your 90 day reports they're gonna know where you live.  Also when doing 90 day reporting you have to show your Tambien Baan or rather house papers I'm sure I probably spelled that wrong, but that is also logged in their computer when you report you can even see them logging it in to their computers.  
 
Even if you moved and failed to inform immigration or lied about your address if you were to be flagged in the immigration database as an overstay the cops are gonna be looking for you.  When they find you they're going to want to see your passport if you don't have it that's no problem all they have to do is run your finger prints through the system and they will identify you.  Remember when you entered the country they took your biometrics and stamped your passport so they will know who you are and what your status here is.  
 
All those computers at immigration offices and at the immigration desks at the airport aren't there just for decoration they do in fact log you into a database in their immigration system.  I've never done this before personally I always do my 90 day report in person but people can even report online somehow so obviously you are logged into an immigration database.  
 
Even if you are just here for 30 days without a visa, as a tourist which I did the first few times that I visited here when I was working in Tokyo before I retired from the military and then I retired here in Thailand on my marriage visa, or just on a 60 day tourist visa you are still logged into their immigration database.  When you entered the country and they took your biometrics you were in fact logged into their computer database.  
 
As far as why they still use the TM-6 form whenever you arrive or depart the country I don't know.  I assume it's probably so there's a paper trail in case they have computer problems or something I don't know.  
 
I don't claim to be an expert on this stuff by any means but I do know what I'm talking about because I've been all over the world.  I've been to over 50 countries, and lots of other countries also use a very similar form which is an arrival/departure card which looks exactly like the TM-6 here in Thailand.  
 
I remember when I lived in Tokyo I used to have to travel back and fourth from Tokyo, Japan to Seoul, Korea on government business (TDY) constantly, usually like once a month for the 3 years that I was stationed there.  And whenever the plane was getting ready to land in either Korea or Japan they'd start passing out the arrival cards to all passengers which looks exactly like Thailand's TM-6.  When I was in military I never really thought much of it or took it seriously I would just kinda scribble in my home address in Tokyo or just write JW Marriott Hotel whenever I was going to Seoul, Korea.  Sometimes immigration in Japan and Korea would make me redo it or chew me out about it because back then I didn't realize how important the form was.  
 
I learned the hard way after I retired and began living here in Thailand as a civilian how important that little form is.  When I was in the military I used to tear them out of my passport.  After I retired from the military and began living here in Thailand as a civilian I learned the hard way that you NEVER remove the departure card from your passport.  Because the first time I ever went to an immigration office here in Thailand they were like "WHERE IS YOUR TM-6????"  They were about to send me to the police station to report it missing but luckily I didn't throw it away I still had it in my bag and I found it.  Then the immigration officer stapled it back into my passport and she told me very sternly but nicely and professionally at the same time to never remove that TM-6 from my passport ever again.  That's when I first realized how important that all my immigration paperwork is not just the TM-6 form.  
 
I had to learn the hard way because I was used to traveling on government business in the military for 21 years.  That's why I began traveling so much because I was military for 21 years.  And I learned the immigration systems all over the world just from traveling so much like most people do just by doing it.  
 
I was in the Army and I spent half of my career in the regular Army Special Forces.  I spent the entire last half of my career as an Operator in a classified Special Mission Unit based in the Washington, D.C. area, they are commonly referred to as SMUs.  In the SMU was when I began traveling commercially extremely often that's why I have so much travel experience and that's why I've been to over 50 countries.  Once I got a taste of traveling internationally and especially living in this part of the world I liked it so much that I never wanted to leave or stop seeing the world.  I don't like the term "Ex-Pat" because I still consider myself an extremely patriotic American.  I spent 21 years in the Army half my career in Special Forces and the last half of my career in a classified Special Mission Unit with 5 combat tours, 3 tours in Afghanistan, 1 tour in Iraq, and 1 short tour in Yemen.  So yeah I still most definitely love my country.  Plus my pension pays our bills so I've got absolutely no complaints.  
 
Ironically when I first joined the Army back in 1994 I was originally an office worker called a 71 Lima which is a Clerk Typist, but I got assigned to 3rd Special Forces Group on Fort Bragg, NC and made a lot of friends.  A Special Forces Master Sergeant who was my 1st Sergeant at the time took me under his wing and mentored me and he talked me into going through Special Forces Assessment and Selection known as the Selection Course (SFAS).  So I went but I didn't make it the first time because I got injured during the course IT IS HARD!  So I went back to work and my 1st Sergeant who was mentoring me worked with me and trained me and got me into the kind of physical shape required to pass their Selection Course.  He taught me all kinds of skills required to pass the course like Land Navigation and everything you need to know to pass Selection.  I was already in very good shape but to pass the course you have to be adapted to carrying A LOT OF WEIGHT!  And you have to be an expert at stuff like Land Navigation without a GPS with only a map, compass, and a protractor, and things like Small Unit Tactics lots of stuff.  My 1st Sergeant who was mentoring me taught me everything that I needed to know to pass SFAS and then I had to learn the rest on my own and from the instructors.  
 
So I went back to the Special Forces Selection Course and I made it the second time I went through and got selected and went through the whole course the Special Forces Qualification Course (SFQC) and that took over a year but I eventually graduated and got assigned back to 3rd Special Forces Group on Fort Bragg as an 18 Bravo which is a Special Forces Weapons Sergeant.  
 
It was harder for me to get into Special Forces because I was never an Infantryman I started out as a paper pusher.  I never went through Ranger School either just Airborne School but everyone in Special Forces is required to be Airborne Qualified.  
 
Sadly my mentor my old 1st Sergeant died before I graduated.  He was on a peace time mission in Senegal in West Africa and died of a heart attack running one morning back in 1998 before the war.  You should Google him his name was Master Sergeant David K. Thuma.  He was a VERY GOOD MAN, he was like a father to me.  
 
After 9-11 we were in Afghanistan by October 2001 for our first tour.  After my 3rd tour in Afghanistan in 2003 was when I got recruited into the Special Mission Unit based in the Washington, D.C. area.  So I went through their Selection Course and I made it then I went through their Operator Training Course (OTC) and passed it after over a year of training all over the states but most of it was in Virginia.  Regular Army Special Forces training is all on Camp MacKall, NC and on Fort Bragg, NC.  Special Mission Units are separate from regular Army Special Forces.  
 
When I first got assigned to the Special Mission Unit we lived in the Washington, D.C. Baltimore area for the first 5 years and that's when I began doing some serious traveling all over the world.  I traveled more with the SMU than I did in regular Special Forces, mostly on my own.  
 
In 2008 through 2009 I did my first tour to Iraq with the Special Mission Unit which was my 5th combat tour.  In the SMU we wore civilian clothes only.  After I got that job I never wore a military uniform ever again.  Obviously I can't write about the details of that unit because they are classified and I don't want to go to prison lol.  
 
After I got back to DC from Iraq they assigned me to their Tokyo Field Office in Japan only a few months after I got back.  That's when I started traveling all over Asia.  I met my wife in the states 24 years ago and she just happens to be a Thai citizen and a United States Permanent Resident.  So whenever I took leave when I worked in Japan we visited her family here in Thailand that's when I originally decided that I wanted to retire here after seeing the cheap cost of living here.  On my pension we live like royalty here.  
 
Before I got assigned to Tokyo my wife was about to become a United States citizen we had the paperwork filled out and ready to submit.  BOY AM I GLAD THAT SHE KEPT HER THAI CITIZENSHIP!  We never completed the process of getting her U.S. Citizenship so now I'm able to live here legally on my non-o visa for as long as I want which will probably be for the rest of our lives.  And since she's also a United States Permanent Resident we can both fly back home to the states and visit home anytime we want.  So we get to have it both ways 
 
When I was stationed in Tokyo I didn't just go from Japan to Korea all the time I used to have to travel all over this part of the world (Asia) I even spent a week in China once.  Anyway now that I've gone and told you my life story pretty much every country I've ever traveled to via commercial air makes you fill out an arrival and departure card especially in this part of the world I know Japan and Korea does it to.  
 
I'm not saying there's no corruption there's corruption all over the world including in the United States.  Although the TM-6 form is not just a piece of paper with a rubber stamp as you stated whenever you enter and depart the country it is always logged into their immigration computers and into a database that they do in fact keep on all foreigners living here and visiting here.  Nowadays everything is online including here in Thailand.  
 
I don't mean to sound condescending I'm just saying that's how it works.  They most definitely use computers and they do have logs and traces of everything here.  As far as why they still use the TM-6 form I don't know that's just their procedure I'm guessing that they want to keep a paper trail as well as an electronic trail in case of a computer glitch or something.  
 
Pretty much every country I've ever traveled to makes you fill out an arrival card just as the plane is landing and at land border crossings as well.  Countries in the Middle East use arrival cards as well at the airport immigration and at land border crossings as well as they do in this part of the world.  

Wow! Your autobiography.

[Rancid]

Never try and come between a bureaucrat and his forms, you are threatening his justification for existence, well, what little he has anyway...

[StayinThailand2much]

On 8/11/2017 at 11:41 AM, tomacht8 said:

I have also doubts whether the information on the tm6 is at all usable. They will not be digitized.

The cards are probably every evening picked up by a truck and stowed somewhere in a large cellar.

 

Must be a huge cellar: 10s of millions of cards every year over past decades. I wouldn't be surprised, if the cards have only a purpose when passing through immigration, before landing in the dumpster less than 12 hours later...

Edited August 12, 2017 by StayinThailand2much

[kotsak]

their database is a complete mess.
my departure card has been stapled in my passport since i arrived 2009,yet i have done all my 90day reports and my extensions the past 8yrs.yet i cant register on line to do my 90day report,WHY i am not in their DATABASE.

Most likely it's because you have changed passport number since your last entry? I had the same problem.

[overherebc]

34 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Must be a huge cellar: 10s of millions of cards every year over past decades. I wouldn't be surprised, if the cards have only a purpose when passing through immigration, before landing in the dumpster less than 12 hours later...

They do store them but not sure for how long. A friend of mine once turned up at DM having lost the card and was taken to a storage area where the 'in' halves were all in boxes, one for each month, and was given the box to search through until he found his card. He said there were many boxes but obviously didn't count them.

Now they just issue you a new card.

[StayinThailand2much]

7 minutes ago, overherebc said:

They do store them but not sure for how long. A friend of mine once turned up at DM having lost the card and was taken to a storage area where the 'in' halves were all in boxes, one for each month, and was given the box to search through until he found his card. He said there were many boxes but obviously didn't count them.

Now they just issue you a new card.

Thank, God! I actually lost mine recently when I went for a visa extension. My flight out of Bangkok is at 6 a.m. Imagining, I would have to sift through thousands of these cards after midnight... Not to mention, how it could work, if you arrived at D.M., but departed from Suvarnabhumi.

[JAG]

So what's it going to be next time I enter Thailand?

 

- Best occupation I heard on here recently was left-handed bagpipe cleaner or something similar.

- For income I will tick all the boxes (because the left-handed bagpipe cleaning trade has its ups and downs)

- accommodation HOTEL MOTEL HOLIDAY INN

 

What else?

 

 

Left handed bagpipe tuner EW....

 

Address in Thailand? "My gaff"

 

Means of onwards travel?

"Shank's pony"

 

 

I quite like the idea of them drowning (figuratively) under piles of pointless paperwork. That means that they are less likely to come hassling us...

 

[overherebc]

26 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Thank, God! I actually lost mine recently when I went for a visa extension. My flight out of Bangkok is at 6 a.m. Imagining, I would have to sift through thousands of these cards after midnight... Not to mention, how it could work, if you arrived at D.M., but departed from Suvarnabhumi.

At the time there only was DM.

 

[Blue bruce]

I have a  Non o retirement extension and also a Thai I.D pink card . Does this mean i do not have to use  the TM 6 once the new law is put into place

[dsj]

I just took my Thai wife to Canada last month, with a new Canadian Visa, and she used the automated machines, same machine a Canadian Citizens use, and all the machine did was asked her a couple of questions and took her picture, and that was it, no need to talk to an Immigration office to check the wife's Visa, no stamp or anything in her passport.  With all the new passports with the electronic chip in them, I don't see why Thailand could do it.

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, oldhippy said:

 

That is NOT true!

NOT same thing elsewhere.

 

My wife (Thai passport) travels every year with me to Schengenland. No paperwork, no visa, no stamp! Only a Thai card & stamp when she exits Thailand.

Show me where I said every where else.

You should check your English before shouting the odds.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, dsj said:

I just took my Thai wife to Canada last month, with a new Canadian Visa, and she used the automated machines, same machine a Canadian Citizens use, and all the machine did was asked her a couple of questions and took her picture, and that was it, no need to talk to an Immigration office to check the wife's Visa, no stamp or anything in her passport.  With all the new passports with the electronic chip in them, I don't see why Thailand could do it.

I took my Thai wife to Canada 2 years ago and I thought the their visa system very efficient, much more so than the UK. At that time I as a Brit had to explain to the IO why we were coming to Canada and got a stamp in my passport.

Its all about progress and passports are a side issue, its the equipment required to process passengers. London has 5 Terminals and they don't all process passengers in the same way. Terminal 5 has no desks for UK/EU passports it is all automatic so if you travel with someone that cannot use the gates, and that includes children, then you must wait in the non EU queue. Some might call that progress but processing time at the IO is far longer than here in Thailand. I arrived back on Tuesday, over an hour in the queue and about 20 seconds at the IO.

 

As a matter of interest was your wife on a visitor visa and if so how long did she get? Mine got the visa for the remainder of her passport, about 3 and a half years. A lot better than the 6 months she gets from the UK.

[jimn]

36 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Show me where I said every where else.

You should check your English before shouting the odds.

Your quite right on this occasion sandyf. As we all know the UK is not in the Schengan list of countries so non Europeans have to complete a landing card for the UK. 

[oldhippy]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Show me where I said every where else.

You should check your English before shouting the odds.

You said elsewhere.

But I admit that you did not specifically say Kazakstan, UK, or Papua.

 

However, you were repeating the old nonsense: "do not complain about Thailand, there are similar things in other countries too".

 

 

 

[Curt1591]

It's all "make-work" to give a reason for their employment. Unfortunately, it is also make-work for the visitors too!

[retoohs]

22 hours ago, Thian said:

 

Last time we were at the airport my wife stayed with me in the qeueu for 3 hours. When it was her turn finally the officer asked why she didn't use the Thai only lane. Because she wanted to travel with me she replied. The officer didn't tell her that i also could take the Thai only lane.

 

I don't understand why i have to fill in that tm6 form since the embassy already got ALL info from me when i applied for the visa's. Also i'm married to a Thai so why treat me like a criminal?

nobody ever told me either but for last 5 or so trips I've been using the Thai line. I dont think we are meant to and always waiting to get told i have to go the the back of the long farang queue but so far no problems. I also always use a flight that gets me in at 1am when airport is far quieter as is the traffic getting into town. When we travel to New Zealand I also bring her through the New Zealand passport line and never have an issue. We have a similar form to the Thai one entering and leaving New Zealand as i think does Australia and I really don't have a problem spending 5 minutes filling it out. There are a lot more questions on the NZ form than the Thai one.

[meatboy]

18 hours ago, overherebc said:

They do store them but not sure for how long. A friend of mine once turned up at DM having lost the card and was taken to a storage area where the 'in' halves were all in boxes, one for each month, and was given the box to search through until he found his card. He said there were many boxes but obviously didn't count them.

Now they just issue you a new card.

it makes you think what do they do with all them cards.

off topic, i posted on here a few yrs.ago,i got a copy of a tm 47 form at immigration for my next 90day report only to find on the back was someones name.passport details,arrival date of his 90 day report,being used again.

thats what they call SECURITY.

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, retoohs said:

nobody ever told me either but for last 5 or so trips I've been using the Thai line. I dont think we are meant to and always waiting to get told i have to go the the back of the long farang queue but so far no problems.

I wondered about that but my wife told me on Tuesday that there were no desks on the Thai line, only gates. She came through in a couple of minutes and then had to wait in baggage reclaim.

May have  contributed to the increased queues.

[sandyf]

On 8/12/2017 at 8:26 AM, Thian said:

 

I don't understand why i have to fill in that tm6 form since the embassy already got ALL info from me when i applied for the visa's. Also i'm married to a Thai so why treat me like a criminal?

You are making the assumption that information provided to the embassy is immediately transferred to immigration, one would think so but I doubt it. May well be the case one day.

Embassies are not that reliable. I applied in London for a Non Imm O and they gave me a Non Imm B, never noticed till I got back home.

[idman]

Arrival card portion and departure card portion not a problem filling those out as I sit on my a.rse in the airplane. As for the B.S. part on the backside I lie like a rug everytime as it is none of their ef.ing business. Does anyone seriously belive someone actually looks and records the information there? Combined with bad penmanship and the inability of Thais to read English properly that part of the form is useless.

[dcnx]

On 8/11/2017 at 10:32 AM, webfact said:

In response to criticism that travellers to several countries in European do not require such the form, he said those countries require travellers to apply for a visa before entering which provides all details.

Absolutely incorrect.

 

I (American) don't have to get a visa to lots of countries. 

 

It's unbelievable how ignorant these people are.

[dcnx]

6 minutes ago, idman said:

Arrival card portion and departure card portion not a problem filling those out as I sit on my a.rse in the airplane. As for the B.S. part on the backside I lie like a rug everytime as it is none of their ef.ing business. Does anyone seriously belive someone actually looks and records the information there? Combined with bad penmanship and the inability of Thais to read English properly that part of the form is useless.

I've never listed a correct address, income, or profession. It's none of their business.

[Thian]

6 hours ago, dcnx said:

Absolutely incorrect.

 

I (American) don't have to get a visa to lots of countries. 

 

It's unbelievable how ignorant these people are.

I would like to know the rules for when a Thai wants to fly to Europe with SCHENGEN-visa.

 

My Thai familymembers and friends just did it, rented a car and drove around Europe. 

 

But they didn't get the invitationletter from a European so somehow they must have guaranteed themselves to have sufficient income.

 

How much money does a Thai have to show for a Schengen-visa from 3 months?

[eeyang wah]

On 12/08/2017 at 1:47 PM, overherebc said:

They do store them but not sure for how long. A friend of mine once turned up at DM having lost the card and was taken to a storage area where the 'in' halves were all in boxes, one for each month, and was given the box to search through until he found his card. He said there were many boxes but obviously didn't count them.

Now they just issue you a new card.

Jesus Christ that's an unbelievable breach of personal data security! Glad I always write nonsense on those cards.