Best way to get a work permit

[simplysocial]

Hey everyone,

 

Im here on a business visa and my goal is to get a work permit. For that i talked with a company, who does relocation services, that would cost me monthly 750USD and i would have a work permit and they cover taxes, benefits etc. Other option is opening a thai company or BOI. Thai company with papers and everything would cost me about 1500$ for the lawyer, then the gov costs about 500-600$ and monthly 8000 baht for ssn, vat. The lawyer said with 3 thai shareholders i dont need the 2 million baht capital, also as long as i dont run it i dont nee the 4 thai employees. Im working on my own, online. Im looking for a cost effective solution to get the work permit. My current visa ends in 2 months, other option would be i try to extend my business visa (is it as hard as getting it the first time?). Would be cheaper then getting a work permit, but im afraid they tighten up the process of getting business visas and a tourist visa is not really an option for me as i want to stay here longer.

 

thanks for the help and best regards

[blackcab]

At those prices it's going to cost you more than 100,000 baht a year to run an empty company.

 

Cheaper to get a 5 year Elite visa. The only downside is it's a minimum of 500,000 baht in advance.

[simplysocial]

Even if it would be 100k baht a year it would be still cheaper then the work permit option. Also the lawyer told me i dont need 4 employees, can negotiate to one for the start. Do you have experiences with a thai limited company? Can you tell more about the 5 year visa? dont have 500k baht though.

[blackcab]

19 minutes ago, simplysocial said:

Even if it would be 100k baht a year it would be still cheaper then the work permit option. Also the lawyer told me i dont need 4 employees, can negotiate to one for the start. Do you have experiences with a thai limited company? Can you tell more about the 5 year visa? dont have 500k baht though.

 

I have considerable experience with Thai limited companies, and my advice would be don't do it unless there is no other option.

 

Maintaining a company, a work permit and an extension of stay is a serious endeavour for a genuine company that is really trading.

 

Do you understand that a work permit does not give you any permission to stay in Thailand?

 

You either need to get an extension of stay from immigration in Thailand or a multiple entry non b visa from an embassy/consulate outside Thailand.

 

I can assure you that a company that is just set up with only one employee will not get an extension of stay.

[simplysocial]

I have a non-b visa multiple entry which is valid for another 2 months. My other option would be going with that company but that would cost 750USD a month for me. They would extend my non-b visa and give the work permit. Dont even have to leave the country.

[mrbkk2]

I agree with blackcab, do NOT open a Thai company for visa purposes.  I started one a while back, and there's a huge amount of paperwork monthly and then yearly.  And the labor department will come around to inspect things, see if it's real, etc.  And every year they decide if you deserve a work permit/extension of stay.  It's incredibly annoying.  I eventually shut it down (which was a whole heap more paperwork).

 

$750 seems like a lot per month just to stay in Thailand.  Maybe do that for a while and save until you have enough for the Elite visa.

[Briggsy]

750 USD/month x 12 months x 33.2 Baht/USD = 298,800 Baht/year

 

Let's call it 300,000 Baht per year. How do you feel about that? Do you feel it is value for money when factoring in your desire to live in Thailand and your level of income?

 

Just on a personal note, the moment anybody starts quoting me prices in US$ in Thailand rather than Baht, my suspicions are raised considerably.

[Chrisdoc]

Hey everyone,
 
Im here on a business visa and my goal is to get a work permit. For that i talked with a company, who does relocation services, that would cost me monthly 750USD and i would have a work permit and they cover taxes, benefits etc. Other option is opening a thai company or BOI. Thai company with papers and everything would cost me about 1500$ for the lawyer, then the gov costs about 500-600$ and monthly 8000 baht for ssn, vat. The lawyer said with 3 thai shareholders i dont need the 2 million baht capital, also as long as i dont run it i dont nee the 4 thai employees. Im working on my own, online. Im looking for a cost effective solution to get the work permit. My current visa ends in 2 months, other option would be i try to extend my business visa (is it as hard as getting it the first time?). Would be cheaper then getting a work permit, but im afraid they tighten up the process of getting business visas and a tourist visa is not really an option for me as i want to stay here longer.
 
thanks for the help and best regards

Hi. When you say $1500 usd for the lawyer and $500-600 usd for the government I just wanted to check that these are one off costs? If you maintain the company for several years it will be 8000 baht monthly in taxes? I guess you need to pay a Thai accountant on top of that because as others have said the accounting side is complex?

[csabo]

Not sure how you got the Non B before the WP mine came hand in hand but does not really matter.  Get the 500k (go back home and work for it, borrow it, sell everything you own whatever and get the Elite.  Your business route is disaster that will never cease to generate problems.  The Elite is worth it especially if you are 45 years old on the nose.

[JackThompson]

The "elite" and "starting a business" options have one thing in common - they are for people who can afford to spend/lose 500K Baht plus to stay in Thailand for 5 years. 

I am not in that category of people.  

If you are not either, you may wish to consider an ED visa (~40K to 50K /yr, all-inclusive), to get a year of stay, while you explore other options.  Find a school who will arrange your extensions for you for a price (usually 3K to 5K Baht every 3 months).  If the school you talk to won't do this, find another school who will.   Learning Thai cannot hurt, if you intend to stay here awhile, so you get that benefit out of it.  Maybe, during that year, you will find other options for the future and/or can save some more money to fund future options.

[Chrisdoc]

Hi. When you say $1500 usd for the lawyer and $500-600 usd for the government I just wanted to check that these are one off costs? If you maintain the company for several years it will be 8000 baht monthly in taxes? I guess you need to pay a Thai accountant on top of that because as others have said the accounting side is complex?

I was reading The Pattaya Guide and thaibusinesshelp.com say they can do a company setup up for 13000b. I'd look around at prices.

[orchis]

the best way of getting a work permit is by getting a job

[simplysocial]

Thanks a lot for all the replies. It looks like opening a company is not a good route. Im not even 30 years old and i have a german passport. I will research more about the education and the elite visa. 500k has to be deposited or does it just have to be shown, that it is there in case of emergency?

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, simplysocial said:

Thanks a lot for all the replies. It looks like opening a company is not a good route. Im not even 30 years old and i have a german passport. I will research more about the education and the elite visa. 500k has to be deposited or does it just have to be shown, that it is there in case of emergency?

You pay 500k baht for a 5 year membership in Thai Elite that gets you a visa valid for 5 years that allows unlimited one year entries. See: https://www.thailandelite.com/#/at-your-service/card/elite-easy-access-membership

[BritTim]

8 minutes ago, simplysocial said:

Thanks a lot for all the replies. It looks like opening a company is not a good route. Im not even 30 years old and i have a german passport. I will research more about the education and the elite visa. 500k has to be deposited or does it just have to be shown, that it is there in case of emergency?

You purchase the Thailand Elite visa up front. There are several options. The two worth considering are the 5-year for 500,000 baht and the 20-year for 1,000,000 baht. They are designed for people who can afford to stay, but do not have another good alternative.

[JackThompson]

11 minutes ago, simplysocial said:

Thanks a lot for all the replies. It looks like opening a company is not a good route. Im not even 30 years old and i have a german passport. I will research more about the education and the elite visa. 500k has to be deposited or does it just have to be shown, that it is there in case of emergency?

For the Elite, the 500K Baht must be paid as a 'fee' - non-refundable.  Given your age, the 1M Baht 20-year option might be a better choice if going that route.

 

If you can form a functioning and profitable business here (or at least break-even including overhead-expenses / legal), that is an option - though all investment should be considered 'at risk capital' which could be lost.  Note that you need 2M Baht in paid-up-capital to open a business, and you can only own 49% of the shares - though it can be structured so that your shares are the 'voting' shares, so that you can retain control of it.  There are other threads that go into detail on this.

 

Edit:  Another option is the 'investment' based extension of stay, but that requires 10M in the bank, and/or in Thai-bonds and/or in new Condo purchases.  The good thing is that as long as you don't sell those assets, it is renewable in-perpetuity.

Edited August 12, 2017 by JackThompson

[simplysocial]

Then still i couldnt legally work in thailand - what if im on such a visa be it the elite or the education visa and they see me working here? My video work will get around here as it is publically accessable.

 

also im reading on the website the 20 year visa is 2 million baht or am i on the wrong page here? https://www.thailandelite.com/#/at-your-service/card/elite-ultimate-privilege-membership

Edited August 12, 2017 by simplysocial

[simplysocial]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

For the Elite, the 500K Baht must be paid as a 'fee' - non-refundable.  Given your age, the 1M Baht 20-year option might be a better choice if going that route.

 

If you can form a functioning and profitable business here (or at least break-even including overhead-expenses / legal), that is an option - though all investment should be considered 'at risk capital' which could be lost.  Note that you need 2M Baht in paid-up-capital to open a business, and you can only own 49% of the shares - though it can be structured so that your shares are the 'voting' shares, so that you can retain control of it.  There are other threads that go into detail on this.

 

Do you have links for me? The lawyer told me that with 3 thai shareholders i dont need the 2 million baht capital.

[JackThompson]

17 minutes ago, simplysocial said:

Do you have links for me? The lawyer told me that with 3 thai shareholders i dont need the 2 million baht capital.

If your business will support a visa and work-permit, and you are not married to a Thai co-owner, I am not sure how you get around the 2M Baht requirement.  There may be ways, but I haven't heard of these.  To get you a work-permit, 4 Thais must be employed.

This discussion has some info on the subject of company-control with less than 1/2 the shares, using 'preferred shares' etc.  It also has a "business owning land" aspect - which I would advise you to steer far clear of - aside from possibly owning condos within the foreign-allotment of a condo-complex.  Schemes that allow foreigners to "own land" via businesses are opening up a threat due to the politics of this.  But the info on shares /control should give you some food for thought.
 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/840823-preferred-shares/

Does your video-company make enough $$ to support 4 Thai employees?  Check out what others doing this in Thailand are doing to avoid running afoul of the law.  No doubt some are on retirement-extensions, and simply aren't prosecuted - but you would be using this business for a visa, so flying "under the radar" isn't an option.

Edited August 12, 2017 by JackThompson

[simplysocial]

Thank you for the link - and no it doesnt make the money yet to support 4 employees. I was thinking to go to the ministry of labour and explain them what i do and talk with them if i need a work permit for it or not. I was reading, that there are a bunch of digital nomads here and even they cant work here without a work permit, it is tolerated that they source the income from outside thailand and spend it here while living here: https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/993111-digital-nomads/

[abrahamzvi]

12 hours ago, blackcab said:

At those prices it's going to cost you more than 100,000 baht a year to run an empty company.

 

Cheaper to get a 5 year Elite visa. The only downside is it's a minimum of 500,000 baht in advance.

and it doesn't give you permission to work without a work permit. If the OP does work in terms of what work is interpreted under Thai Law, the best way is to get the work permit through the relocation company, provided it's all above board.

[chrisinth]

As the OP's original objective is to get a work permit by the easiest means, I don't understand the advice being given with reference to Ed visas (which you can't get a work permit on) and Thai Elite, again which you won't get a work permit on and as the OP has already stated doesn't have the required investment anyway.

 

From their FAQ's: (Source: http://www.thai-elite.com/faq.html )

 

After becoming an Elite member, can I get a work permit?
TE can facilitate member to get work permit by provide necessary information such as documents to prepare, time of processing, and also EPL service to go along with member at Government department. For work permit, member has to be hire by a company in Thailand and that the company has to issued documents for member to apply Non B visa. Work Permit can be done after member has Non-B visa and use that visa apply for work permit. TPC may help member to get work permit faster as it actually take 2 – 3 weeks. All rules and regulation applied accordingly including fee(s). 

 

As the OP already has a Non-B, that is taking an expensive step backwards just for a work permit.

[JackThompson]

11 minutes ago, simplysocial said:

Thank you for the link - and no it doesnt make the money yet to support 4 employees. I was thinking to go to the ministry of labour and explain them what i do and talk with them if i need a work permit for it or not. I was reading, that there are a bunch of digital nomads here and even they cant work here without a work permit, it is tolerated that they source the income from outside thailand and spend it here while living here: https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/993111-digital-nomads/

That is another can of worms.  Not enforced now - even those doing it openly in co-working spaces.  But also not legal by the letter-of-the-law (written/worded before "remote work" existed, but never updated).  As you cannot do your work quietly / unobtrusively / undetected, I would recommend against counting on future non-enforcement.  There are some factions who don't want farangs here long-term - period.  If they can get the upper-hand, they will crack-down on this activity.

Edited August 12, 2017 by JackThompson

[simplysocial]

Honestly im coming more and more to the conclusion just to extend the non-b visa and keep on going with it. I have my bank accounts outside of thailand and when i read the "my mate nate" story, i feel quite relaxed. He has over 3 million subscribers, his videos are all in thai, aimed at a thai audience. He went unnoticed until recently and when you have 3 million subscibers and your videos are getting 1 million views each, you make around 1000-2500$ per video (he makes 3-4 videos a week) only from adsense. Then you have paid sponsorships, affiliate stuff, super chat, public events etc. - i guess he makes around easy 50k USD a month if not more. Because im thinking even when i get employed by iglu, i would have an official position inside the company, which would be other then video production anyway. So when they check my work permit and they see the work would be different then making videos, i would have the same problem as having no work permit right?

[JackThompson]

14 minutes ago, simplysocial said:

Honestly im coming more and more to the conclusion just to extend the non-b visa and keep on going with it. I have my bank accounts outside of thailand and when i read the "my mate nate" story, i feel quite relaxed. He has over 3 million subscribers, his videos are all in thai, aimed at a thai audience. He went unnoticed until recently and when you have 3 million subscibers and your videos are getting 1 million views each, you make around 1000-2500$ per video (he makes 3-4 videos a week) only from adsense. Then you have paid sponsorships, affiliate stuff, super chat, public events etc. - i guess he makes around easy 50k USD a month if not more. Because im thinking even when i get employed by iglu, i would have an official position inside the company, which would be other then video production anyway. So when they check my work permit and they see the work would be different then making videos, i would have the same problem as having no work permit right?

Iglu works by you using them for billing, with a minimum/mo billed, and them taking 33% from gross-receipts billed (not net).    I don't see how that would help with your work-permit, unless your 'adsense' and what-not was being billed via Iglu.

Note that action against "Nate" was deferred, until the new work-permit rules are finalized.  I'd keep watching what happens with him - might be a good test-case.  Note that with his income, he could easily form a business and employ 4 Thais (may already be using them for crew).

What is the basis of your current Non-B, which allows you to extend it?

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, simplysocial said:

Then still i couldnt legally work in thailand - what if im on such a visa be it the elite or the education visa and they see me working here? My video work will get around here as it is publically accessable.

 

also im reading on the website the 20 year visa is 2 million baht or am i on the wrong page here? https://www.thailandelite.com/#/at-your-service/card/elite-ultimate-privilege-membership

If you want to look at the Thailand Elite options, refer to http://www.thai-elite.com/programs.html.

 

Note that thai-elite.com is the real Thailand Elite site. Other sites are agents getting a commission to introduce Thailand Elite members.

 

If you are a digital nomad with no Thai customers or staff, I recommend you stay away from the whole work permit thing. You are very likely to end up with a different technically illegal solution which is more likely to see you prosecuted than the tolerated situation with digital nomads today. Should the attitude towards digital nomads change in the future, reevaluate your options at that point.

[chrisinth]

4 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

What is the basis of your current Non-B, which allows you to extend it?

[Techno Viking]

1 hour ago, simplysocial said:

Then still i couldnt legally work in thailand - what if im on such a visa be it the elite or the education visa and they see me working here? My video work will get around here as it is publically accessable.

 

also im reading on the website the 20 year visa is 2 million baht or am i on the wrong page here? https://www.thailandelite.com/#/at-your-service/card/elite-ultimate-privilege-membership

as a work permit is tied to an employer being in possession of one does not give you Carte blanch to work anywhere you want.

 

Get a job if you want a work permit.

[simplysocial]

6 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

What is the basis of your current Non-B, which allows you to extend it?

Officially im here sponsored by a real estate company to look for business contacts and investment opportunities in the real estate market.

 

No i dont intend to have thai staff and customers to be honest. Filipinos and Vietnamese people are way more productive and also cheaper.

[ubonjoe]

19 minutes ago, BritTim said:

f you want to look at the Thailand Elite options, refer to http://www.thai-elite.com/programs.html

This is actually the official website. https://www.thailandelite.com/#/

The thai-elite site an offshoot of the official one.