Trump loudly insists both sides to blame for Virginia violence

[JHolmesJr]

47 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

He's worse than a lousy president.  He's actually poisoning the minds of many impressionable Americans (youngsters, in particular).  He's telling them it's ok to be a pussy-grabber, a war-monger, a conceited bitch ("I'm very rich, believe me"), a liar, and a racist.

 

do you have any links (lol) showing how he's poisoning young minds…..thereres enough musicians, actors, dirty bankers doing all the things you say…never saw the president do it. why you raggin' on him in particular esp when he speaks the truth?

[Enoon]

 

The fact that one of those "sides" (the one that America fought so hard to destroy in Europe during the Second World War) is allowed to exist in the contemporary US is a crime against civilisation, humanity, and progress.

 

That Trump should seek to encourage and pander to them by awarding them parity with their opponents is an abomination.

 

As he is himself.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Enoon

[ilostmypassword]

30 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

do you have any links (lol) showing how he's poisoning young minds…..thereres enough musicians, actors, dirty bankers doing all the things you say…never saw the president do it. why you raggin' on him in particular esp when he speaks the truth?

I've heard and read Trump accused of many things.  But telling the truth? Really.  And what does the truth matter to you anyway since you have no use for facts?

[Becker]

4 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

what did trump say that was inaccurate?

 

nothing.

 

yet the spinbois want to twist his words to imply…see, things would have been much better under our candidate.

 

 

Actually, it would have been, and all the grown-ups realized that a long time ago.

[selftaopath]

8 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

"He broke a General."

 

 

He likes corrupting all those who bow down to him. It helps him feel better if he knows those around him are corrupt/bigots etc.

[Pinot]

Some recent random quotes twitter:

 

"I didn't stand up to Nazis, but I sure cut taxes for rich people" seems like an odd hill for Republicans to die on."  - The Rude Pundit

 

"There is blame on both sides, Anne Frank was being a very rude and obnoxious houseguest.' - Chris Rock

 

‘If you support the racist, you are the racist’ - Michael Moore

 

Jimmy Kimmel: President Trump ‘Needs to Go’

 

The Racist-In-Chief Tuesday committed presidential suicide. Trump's moral force is below the Tiki Torch company's. - Keith Olberman

 

"Trump is just more overt about it. But GOP is built on white supremacy. Look at what they've done to restrict voting access for non-whites" - Markus Molitas

 

"Rubio rebukes Trump: White supremacists are “100% to blame” for “Charlottesville terror attack”

 

"Getting very tired of asking GOP to show strength. How much strength does it take to reject a POTUS who embraces Nazis? Step the f up!" - Rob Reiner

[selftaopath]

6 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Chief of Staff Kelly looks disconsolate.

 

 

Yes but what will his actions indicate? I love the adage: What we allow we condone.

[attrayant]

I nevertheless am in favor of keeping the Lee statue in the park.  The history he was involved in was 160 years ago.  It happened.  He was a general for the side that lost.   All around the world there are statues of army heads who, if they're looked at critically, could be seen as out-of-step with current social norms.

August 15th, 2017 - the day Trump became president of the confederacy. Should we erect a statue of Trump? After all, it's history now.

[maewang99]

Stephen Colbert asks if Trump is pro Nazi or Anti Nazi.... sure, it's a funny routine.

I guess. 

I'm also gonna guess.... Trump is not a Nazi.

now here's a funny routine.... Colbert.. are you pro democracy.. American style... or anti-democracy.. Nazi style???? 

I only give you two choices. same as you gave Trumpie Pooh.



 

Edited August 16, 2017 by maewang99

[attrayant]

With nazism there is no middle ground. It's a binary choice.

 

[dunroaming]

I think this thread indicates the two camps on TV and both are dogged in their opinions.  In the USA (and most other democracies) there are the Alt-right and the Alt-left and in the middle the vast proportion of the population.  The alt-right love Trump because he is one of them and the alt-left hate him with a vengeance for the same reason.  So that leaves us with the rest.  Now depending on what news channel you listen to Trump has a popularity rating of between  22% and 33%.  Even taking the higher figure of 33% that makes him the most unpopular President (at this stage) of any that went before him.  In other words those people that make up the vast majority of American citizens think he is rubbish. 

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

August 15th, 2017 - the day Trump became president of the confederacy. Should we erect a statue of Trump? After all, it's history now.

 

There is something to that. The trumpist movement along with his assorted white supremacist followers is kind of Neo-Confederacy movement. He's not even trying to be president of the entire country. Only his base. Mostly in the confederate era states. 

 

Sad. 

[joecoolfrog]

10 hours ago, FreddieRoyle said:

All I saw is a heavily armed group of liberals spoiling for a fight (without neccessary permits) and coming off worse, then screaming blue murder about it all. They should take stock of the situation, and make an effort to protest peacefully and legally in the future. It's not as if they don't have a habit of violent behavior - just look at the Berkeley riots against free speech where they assaulted and burnt anything and everything in their path.

 Trump is exactly right, all sides here must share the blame. Not sure why this is such a difficult message for some to swallow?

" All I saw " 

Well the guy who wrote that has trolled these threads for the past few days so it was no surprise that he is at it again. What shocked me though was the number of people agreeing with him , certain names I would expect but others honestly disturbed me.

One would think that history has shown us that supporting Nazis is not a good idea , but it seems that a number of you seem to have found the justification for doing so.

Dont try and kid us that this is about politics , supporting or opposing Trump , free speech or even playing Devils Advocate , it is none of those things.

Lets be clear , the president would jump into bed with the devil for a quick buck , that has become more than apparent each day , he will pay for that soon enough.

The Neo Nazis will be shamed and harried endlessly and eventually retreat to the darker regions of the internet which is where they belong.

Those that dont condemn the Nazis , and sitting on the fence is tacit support , will be judged by their peers , good luck with that because you really have no defence.

[Jingthing]

Just now, dunroaming said:

I think this thread indicates the two camps on TV and both are dogged in their opinions.  In the USA (and most other democracies) there are the Alt-right and the Alt-left and in the middle the vast proportion of the population.  The alt-right love Trump because he is one of them and the alt-left hate him with a vengeance for the same reason.  So that leaves us with the rest.  Now depending on what news channel you listen to Trump has a popularity rating of between  22% and 33%.  Even taking the higher figure of 33% that makes him the most unpopular President (at this stage) of any that went before him.  In other words those people that make up the vast majority of American citizens think he is rubbish. 

The alt-left doesn't exist

The term was invented on Fox News.

It's FAKE.

I doubt you'll find any leftists that actually identify as alt-left.

On the other hand, millions of Americans identify as alt-right. 

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, maewang99 said:

Stephen Colbert asks if Trump is pro Nazi or Anti Nazi.... sure, it's a funny routine.

I guess. 

I'm also gonna guess.... Trump is not a Nazi.

now here's a funny routine.... Colbert.. are you pro democracy.. American style... or anti-democracy.. Nazi style???? 

I only give you two choices. same as you gave Trumpie Pooh.



 

Are you suggesting that resisting the fascist trumpist movement is un-American? That plays right into the trumpist playbook. His mentor was Roy Cohn of the Joseph McCarthy Roy Cohns. Anyone that doesn't know about that era of history should look it up. 

[joecoolfrog]

10 hours ago, tonray said:

As much as I despise Trump and what he stands for, the reality of the situation was that 2 groups met with the intention of doing harm to each other. I think Trump certainly sympathizes with the alt-right and begrudgingly makes statement about KKK and Nazis, but there is some blame to go around here.

 

Just because you find the ideology of one of the groups abhorrent and disgusting, does not mean that automatically they get to take all the blame.  The First Amendment gives a wide birth to publicly expressing your views  which of course ends at physical altercation, but just because you disagree with scumbags holding racist banners does not mean they were the only ones in the wrong.

 

Flame away. Just telling it like it is.

You have a point of course , we could argue forever about the morality of the situation but actually in this case its irrelevent. You simply have to ask yourself one question . Did Trump make that speech for the good of the Nation , or for his own good ( either because he is a racist sympathiser or because he views them as core supporters ) ?

[joecoolfrog]

9 hours ago, irwinfc said:

both sides ARE indeed to blame. but just like a script engraved in stone centuries ago, you'll only hear the liberals complain about it.

I have voted Conservative my entire life but if siding with Nazis is the price of having a dig at my political foes then....

[dunroaming]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The alt-left doesn't exist

The term was invented on Fox News.

It's FAKE.

I doubt you'll find any leftists that actually identify as alt-left.

On the other hand, millions of Americans identify as alt-right. 

When it comes to the USA and speaking as a Brit, I would say that you are absolutely right about there being no Alt-left.  In Europe they would be considered slightly left of centre.  But to make a point in TV to the American pro Trump boys (who view any mildly socialist views as being far left communism) then the Alt-left description is one I think they will understand  

[Jingthing]

I disagree. We're talking about U.S. politics here. Opponents of trump should not be sucked into artificial terms invented by trump propagandists. I would change my mind if a faction of American leftists ever identify that way. I doubt that will ever happen. Of course the American left has many factions. That doesn't mean there is a real alt-left. To U.S. right wingers, Hillary Clinton was a leftist, which is absurd of course, but that's U.S. politics. Antifa isn't alt-left. It's Antifa. 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Jingthing

[Grouse]

Nothing much different

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/gabrielsanchez/american-hate?utm_term=.op32ZJXkWn#.yq98eDklvq

 

Shameful

[joecoolfrog]

30 years ago they would all have been 'Commies ' , progressive thinkers those rednecks !

[joecoolfrog]

7 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Chief of Staff Kelly looks disconsolate.

 

 

That picture says more than a million words ! 

[Pinot]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

I disagree. We're talking about U.S. politics here. Opponents of trump should not be sucked into artificial terms invented by trump propagandists. I would change my mind if American leftists ever identify that way. I doubt that will ever happen. Of course the American left has many factions. But that doesn't mean a real alt-left movement exists in the U.S. because it doesn't. 

I don't think we have to worry about the alt-left. 

 

I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat.  - Will Rogers

 

A big part of their pretzel logic is the argument that both sides are doing it (and there are good people on both sides). There is only one honest way to look at that BS. There is the alt-right/KKK/Nazis, then there is everyone else. Everyone else doesn't like this. This isn't us. This isn't America. 

 

It is so easy to believe that Trump has designs on using this Army of Deplorables to take over America. As things get more and more desperate for doll hands, watch where he goes...back to his peeps. This has been a defining moment for Trump. Now we know exactly where he stands (when he's not in the closet trading hands with Putin). 

 

We live in crazy times. This man is the President of the United States. 

[joecoolfrog]

7 hours ago, maewang99 said:

I just became a Trump supporter.

the fake media is real obvious on this. they have gone too far.

his press conference at Trump Tower. from what I saw, everything he said was true and quite acceptable.  it's almost shocking to see and know that a US president is speaking straight. that's why he was elected. 

the system does work.  it's weird, but somehow it still works.

the only thing that really held me back was Climate.. not anymore.

 

this did it for me on that as well.

on Climate, it's not Trump or anyone we can blame at all. it is a very difficult and time consuming thing to be caught up on.  it took me 2 or 3 years.... of reading and thinking and discussing at least a few hours every day on average... just to get the basic picture on it... and even then I have to trust a few people, Kevin Anderson at U Manchester, Bill Gates at a Q&A at Caltech about a year ago or a little less... because even after all that.. the real skinny on the chemistry and physics involved is something very very few people have the time for. 

I'm retired and I do. 

so Trump, even if what he says and does in office is just as bad as all the others have been. on what I consider very important... Climate....... hey Obama did nothing but a few window dressings and signed COP21.. which James Hansen calls a fraud. and so does Kevin Anderson all but as well.

Trump. he's our president.

and he's quite okay.

George Washington was a slave owner, no matter what he said otherwise on the topic.... he was a slave holder.  an ordinary slave holder not any different from 99% of all the rest of them including Robert E. Lee for damn sure.

and there were all kinds of nutters on every "side" you can think of at Charlotsville.  not just one. 

NOT JUST ONE SIDE.





 

 

 

Well your first sentence is so obviously untrue it makes the rest of your post moot.

[Grouse]

16 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Nothing much different

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/gabrielsanchez/american-hate?utm_term=.op32ZJXkWn#.yq98eDklvq

 

Shameful

Maybe, just maybe, Marine general Kelly will man up and do the right thing! ( Von Stauffenberg style)

Edited August 16, 2017 by Grouse

[joecoolfrog]

6 hours ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

I agree with you the best way to handle extremist protesters such as KKK and "kill the gays" Christian zealots is to completely ignore them.

It is a cop-out however to simply say liberals want to squash all conflicting opinions. No doubt people get upset when outsiders coopt a local issue that has already been decided to use as a Flashpoint for outside agitation.

Imagine actual Nazis coming into your town chanting "blood and soil" and "jew will not replace me". How would you react?

Exactly my view , thank you for stating it so eloquently.

[wwest5829]

I certainly condemn the stance of the Alt-right and the associated groups focused on Charlottesville. That established, as a student of history, I have to disagree with the removal of these symbols of US history. No problem with erecting statements at these monuments, if it is insisted, explaining what happened and the condemnation in current times but the explanations are best left in the hands of competent educators. 12 US Presidents held slaves, I do not want those associated with slavery in their times to be removed from long established public monuments. Educate ....

[boomerangutang]

5 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

do you have any links (lol) showing how he's poisoning young minds…..thereres enough musicians, actors, dirty bankers doing all the things you say…never saw the president do it. why you raggin' on him in particular esp when he speaks the truth?

                             If you had children who went to school and sat in class with a teacher who espoused pussy-grabbing, who cussed, who used childish names to vilify anyone who didn't praise him, who lied constantly, ......would you allow your child to continue attending that teacher's class?   I wouldn't. Plus, I'd probably notify the principal of a bad influence.

 

                     As for Chief of Staff:  That photo speaks volumes.  He looks like he's staring at a dinner he clumsily dropped on the floor which is being eaten by a horde of ants.  You know MMA cage fights?  When the ref suspects a beaten fighter is being harmed, he immediately jumps and physically breaks up the fight.  I half expect Kelly, when he's watching Trump Sr make an ass of himself, to physically dive between Trump and the mic, and wrestle him away ......from continuing the harm Americans.

 

                    Kelly should rue the day he accepted the job of Chief of Staff.  Dumb move. 

[Jingthing]

Kelly probably thinks he's doing his patriotic duty. He obviously knows he's dealing with an unhinged horror show baby man. It might be best if he stays, even if he only has minimal influence. That influence might possibly be as a buffer between 45 and the nuclear codes. It will be interesting to see though. Kelly must realize by now he's taken on a totally impossible job and the ROT is truly at the TOP. 

[thaihome]

2 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

I certainly condemn the stance of the Alt-right and the associated groups focused on Charlottesville. That established, as a student of history, I have to disagree with the removal of these symbols of US history. No problem with erecting statements at these monuments, if it is insisted, explaining what happened and the condemnation in current times but the explanations are best left in the hands of competent educators. 12 US Presidents held slaves, I do not want those associated with slavery in their times to be removed from long established public monuments. Educate ....

If you were really a student of history you would know these are not historical monuments,  they were erected as political statements two generations after the civil war in celebration of the dominance of white supremacy in the Jim Crow era. 

TH 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/arts/design/trump-robert-e-lee-george-washington-thomas-jefferson.html