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[rooster59]

Scientist Hawking blames UK government for health service 'crisis'

 

British scientist and theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking attends a launch event for a new award for science communication, called the Stephen Hawking Medal for Science Communication, in London, Britain December 16, 2015. REUTERS/Toby Melville/File Photo

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Physicist Stephen Hawking found himself in a war of words with Britain's Conservative government after he said it had caused a crisis in the state-run National Health Service (NHS) and was leading it towards a profit-making U.S.-style system.

 

Writing in the Guardian newspaper on Saturday, the British cosmologist, who was diagnosed with motor neurone disease aged 21, also accused the government's health minister Jeremy Hunt of cherry-picking scientific evidence to justify policies.

 

Hunt hit back saying that Hawking, author of the bestselling book 'A Brief History of Time', was wrong and that his criticism was a "pernicious falsehood".

 

"The care I have received since being diagnosed with motor neurone disease as a student in 1962 has enabled me to live my life as I want, and to contribute to major advances in our understanding of the universe," wrote Hawking.

 

Founded in 1948, the NHS is a source of huge pride for many Britons who are able to access free care from the cradle to the grave, but in recent years tight budgets, an ageing population and more expensive, complex treatments has put the system under huge financial strain.

 

Hawking, a supporter of the opposition Labour Party, said the NHS was "a cornerstone of our society" but was in crisis because of political decisions.

 

It was also facing a conflict between the interests of multinational corporations driven by profit and public opposition to increasing privatisation, he said.

 

"In the U.S., where they are dominant in the healthcare system, these corporations make enormous profits, healthcare is not universal, and it is hugely more expensive for the outcomes patients receive than in the UK," he wrote.

 

"We see the balance of power in the UK is with private healthcare companies, and the direction of change is towards a U.S.-style insurance system."

 

Last year, English doctors staged their first strikes in four decades over government plans to reform pay and conditions as part of moves to deliver what it said would be a consistent service seven days a week as studies showed mortality rates were higher at weekends when staffing is reduced.

 

However, Hawking, who communicates via a cheek muscle linked to a sensor and computerised voice system, said Hunt had cherry-picked research to justify his arguments.

 

"For a scientist, cherry-picking evidence is unacceptable. When public figures abuse scientific argument, citing some studies but suppressing others to justify policies they want to implement for other reasons, it debases scientific culture," he wrote.

 

Hunt responded on Twitter saying no health secretary could ignore the "comprehensive" evidence and said his government had put more money, doctors and nurses into the NHS than ever before.

 

"Stephen Hawking is brilliant physicist but wrong on lack of evidence 4 weekend effect," Hunt wrote. "Most pernicious falsehood from Stephen Hawking is idea govt wants US-style insurance system. Is it 2 much to ask him to look at evidence?"

 

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-08-20

[Pdaz]

Hawking is meant to be super intelligent.. But he's a Labour supporter ! Go figure........

[Aachen]

4 minutes ago, Pdaz said:

Hawking is a Labour supporter ! Go figure........

Ah, good argument. That explains everything. - What?!

[impulse]

2 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Last year, English doctors staged their first strikes in four decades over government plans to reform pay and conditions as part of moves to deliver what it said would be a consistent service seven days a week as studies showed mortality rates were higher at weekends when staffing is reduced.

 

I suspect they'd find a better correlation to the amount of booze consumed on weekends than to reduced staffing...

 

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, Pdaz said:

Hawking is meant to be super intelligent.. But he's a Labour supporter ! Go figure........

In the USA Pew did a poll n 2009. It showed that 6 percent of scientests were republicans, 55 percent were democrats, 32 percent independents and 4 percent other.

By ideology 9 percent were conservative, 35 percent moderate, 52 percent liberal.

 

http://www.people-press.org/2009/07/09/section-4-scientists-politics-and-religion/

[coconuthead]

UK just wasted £3 billion on an aircraft carrier to "project power abroad".......we know how that ends.

[Jonnapat]

Stephen Hawking is not incorrect in his view just because he is a Labour supporter.

The day that Britain converts to the US type of healthcare would be a sad one for the country and the people.

Carry on the fight.

[ilostmypassword]

10 minutes ago, Jonnapat said:

Stephen Hawking is not incorrect in his view just because he is a Labour supporter.

The day that Britain converts to the US type of healthcare would be a sad one for the country and the people.

Carry on the fight.

I can't understand why you believe it's a good idea to move from the British model of health care, which has one of the lowest costs per capita, to the American Model, which has the highest costs. Not only that, but the American Model doesn't have have as good results as the British model. What's not to like?

[roo860]

How the hell can he be British, he talks with an American accent, bloody turncoat!

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[roo860]

 

Here's one I made earlier!

[emoji106]

 

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[impulse]

50 minutes ago, coconuthead said:

UK just wasted £3 billion on an aircraft carrier to "project power abroad".......we know how that ends.

 

If only it would end...

 

[andersonat]

Just for information, I'd like to have some idea of the total cost for the NHS for the care that it has provided to the Professor for his various health-problems during his lifetime.

 

[ilostmypassword]

44 minutes ago, andersonat said:

Just for information, I'd like to have some idea of the total cost for the NHS for the care that it has provided to the Professor for his various health-problems during his lifetime.

 

Really? You got no agenda? Just idle curiosity?

[andersonat]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Really? You got no agenda? Just idle curiosity?

 

No, I have no agenda.  

 

*Before* forming an opinion about something, I like to assemble some information about it - preferably as much information as I can.

 

 - Isn't this what *you* would do ?

 

 

Edited August 20, 2017 by andersonat

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, andersonat said:

No, I have no agenda  -  but perhaps you'd care to tell me what *yours* is.

Just idle curiosity.

[Thongkorn]

It's all part of the Big plan to sell the british NHS off, To american business,

[Pdaz]

Hawking freely admits that he probably would never have survived if not for the free NHS treatment he received . I actually don't have a problem with whatever the cost was as I believe this is exactly what the NHS is for. To help when real trouble arises. To provide expensive care that Mr Average could never fund himhelf.

What does upset me is, well off people using free resources that they could easily pay for. The perpetually ill lonely hypochondriacs who clog Doctors surgeries with colds, aches and other problems that could be soothed with over the counter medicines.

The obese, the gender confused, the plastic surgery junkies and loads of other self indulgent wasters who want a pair of boobs, anti depressants or a gastric band for free.. You want it pay for it yourself ! Also on my hate list are the unemployed and feckless still having multiple kids with multiple partners... and expecting the taxpayer to fund their care. Lastly are the foreign health tourists rorting our healthcare and not paying the bill.

Without the above the NHS could thrive and have funds to step up when the average guy/girl gets cancer or needs some major and expensive operation. The NHS should be there as a safety net for the real emergencies. Not to have it's budget frittered away on day to day runny noses and underworked millennials with 'depression'

"Save the NHS" Think before you waste it's time and money.

[roo860]

Hawking freely admits that he probably would never have survived if not for the free NHS treatment he received . I actually don't have a problem with whatever the cost was as I believe this is exactly what the NHS is for. To help when real trouble arises. To provide expensive care that Mr Average could never fund himhelf.
What does upset me is, well off people using free resources that they could easily pay for. The perpetually ill lonely hypochondriacs who clog Doctors surgeries with colds, aches and other problems that could be soothed with over the counter medicines.
The obese, the gender confused, the plastic surgery junkies and loads of other self indulgent wasters who want a pair of boobs, anti depressants or a gastric band for free.. You want it pay for it yourself ! Also on my hate list are the unemployed and feckless still having multiple kids with multiple partners... and expecting the taxpayer to fund their care. Lastly are the foreign health tourists rorting our healthcare and not paying the bill.
Without the above the NHS could thrive and have funds to step up when the average guy/girl gets cancer or needs some major and expensive operation. The NHS should be there as a safety net for the real emergencies. Not to have it's budget frittered away on day to day runny noses and underworked millennials with 'depression'
"Save the NHS" Think before you waste it's time and money.

Well said!!!!!

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[stevenl]

On 20/08/2017 at 2:26 PM, ilostmypassword said:

I can't understand why you believe it's a good idea to move from the British model of health care, which has one of the lowest costs per capita, to the American Model, which has the highest costs. Not only that, but the American Model doesn't have have as good results as the British model. What's not to like?

'It would be a sad day' the post you reacted to said, so the opposite of what you claim it said.

[ilostmypassword]

18 minutes ago, stevenl said:

'It would be a sad day' the post you reacted to said, so the opposite of what you claim it said.

Pay attention to the conclusion of what I wrote:

 

"Not only that, but the American Model doesn't have have as good results as the British model. What's not to like?"

[Thongkorn]

The NHS is not Free we pay through our taxes.

7 hours ago, Pdaz said:

Hawking freely admits that he probably would never have survived if not for the free NHS treatment he received . I actually don't have a problem with whatever the cost was as I believe this is exactly what the NHS is for. To help when real trouble arises. To provide expensive care that Mr Average could never fund himhelf.

What does upset me is, well off people using free resources that they could easily pay for. The perpetually ill lonely hypochondriacs who clog Doctors surgeries with colds, aches and other problems that could be soothed with over the counter medicines.

The obese, the gender confused, the plastic surgery junkies and loads of other self indulgent wasters who want a pair of boobs, anti depressants or a gastric band for free.. You want it pay for it yourself ! Also on my hate list are the unemployed and feckless still having multiple kids with multiple partners... and expecting the taxpayer to fund their care. Lastly are the foreign health tourists rorting our healthcare and not paying the bill.

Without the above the NHS could thrive and have funds to step up when the average guy/girl gets cancer or needs some major and expensive operation. The NHS should be there as a safety net for the real emergencies. Not to have it's budget frittered away on day to day runny noses and underworked millennials with 'depression'

"Save the NHS" Think before you waste it's time and money.

The NHS is not free we pay through our taxes.

[Pdaz]

4 hours ago, Thongkorn said:

The NHS is not Free we pay through our taxes.

 

True. It's basically compulsory medical insurance. You all pay a percentage and if you are unlucky enough to be ill the NHS steps in to help. "free at the point of care"

Unfortunately it is being "robbed" often by the people who have contributed the least.  Many of whom have self inflicted problems caused by their lifestyle. Smokers, the obese, addicts, alcoholics plus the chronic malingerers bogging up the system to get their welfare and disability payments. Then there are the huge malpractice and compensation payouts to the new breed of ambulance chasing lawyers. All who see the NHS as a cash cow. The other drain on funding is the chronic over management and wasteful spending. Like any other nationalized industry it is massively wasteful. Cut down on red tape, unneeded managers, committees and fat-cats. Then there would be more cash for the actual workers.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 1:49 PM, coconuthead said:

UK just wasted £3 billion on an aircraft carrier to "project power abroad".......we know how that ends.

If I remember correctly, Gordon Brown wasted 6 billion on the NHS. Throwing money at the NHS does not translate to money well spent. The management is useless, and till they reform the management, nothing will change.

They also need to stop consultants gaming the system for their pet projects.

They would do well to return to the basics that the NHS was set up to address, instead of funding hugely expensive projects that serve little purpose for society.

 

IMO Hawking is correct. Political decisions driven by populism and false economies have ruined the NHS, eg contracting out ward cleaning was a disaster.

 

BTW, when I worked for the NHS some years ago, the private system was well entrenched in NHS hospital I worked for and the set up was corrupt. Can't speak for other hospitals.

Edited August 22, 2017 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, Pdaz said:

True. It's basically compulsory medical insurance. You all pay a percentage and if you are unlucky enough to be ill the NHS steps in to help. "free at the point of care"

Unfortunately it is being "robbed" often by the people who have contributed the least.  Many of whom have self inflicted problems caused by their lifestyle. Smokers, the obese, addicts, alcoholics plus the chronic malingerers bogging up the system to get their welfare and disability payments. Then there are the huge malpractice and compensation payouts to the new breed of ambulance chasing lawyers. All who see the NHS as a cash cow. The other drain on funding is the chronic over management and wasteful spending. Like any other nationalized industry it is massively wasteful. Cut down on red tape, unneeded managers, committees and fat-cats. Then there would be more cash for the actual workers.

 

True.

In the NHS hospital I worked for, the head nurse made lower ranked nurses work above their pay grade to save money ( actually, the same nurses did the same job, but were demoted so they could be paid less ), while at the same time they created 2 pointless senior nurse management positions.

 

Then there would be more cash for the actual workers.

Sadly untrue. Management always tried to keep paying nurses less than they are worth while I was in the NHS. They, on the other hand, were overpaid for the job they did badly, and very well paid too.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, Pdaz said:

Hawking freely admits that he probably would never have survived if not for the free NHS treatment he received . I actually don't have a problem with whatever the cost was as I believe this is exactly what the NHS is for. To help when real trouble arises. To provide expensive care that Mr Average could never fund himhelf.

What does upset me is, well off people using free resources that they could easily pay for. The perpetually ill lonely hypochondriacs who clog Doctors surgeries with colds, aches and other problems that could be soothed with over the counter medicines.

The obese, the gender confused, the plastic surgery junkies and loads of other self indulgent wasters who want a pair of boobs, anti depressants or a gastric band for free.. You want it pay for it yourself ! Also on my hate list are the unemployed and feckless still having multiple kids with multiple partners... and expecting the taxpayer to fund their care. Lastly are the foreign health tourists rorting our healthcare and not paying the bill.

Without the above the NHS could thrive and have funds to step up when the average guy/girl gets cancer or needs some major and expensive operation. The NHS should be there as a safety net for the real emergencies. Not to have it's budget frittered away on day to day runny noses and underworked millennials with 'depression'

"Save the NHS" Think before you waste it's time and money.

The perpetually ill lonely hypochondriacs who clog Doctors surgeries with colds, aches and other problems that could be soothed with over the counter medicines.

 

Easily solved with a bit of lateral thinking. Either make people that present with frivolous complaints wait till the more important cases are seen, all day if necessary, or make them attend a pay for use clinic.

In New Zealand, while hospital care is free, everyone that sees a GP has to pay, quite a lot and even pensioners have to pay. Not sure about children though- perhaps they are free.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 2:42 PM, andersonat said:

Just for information, I'd like to have some idea of the total cost for the NHS for the care that it has provided to the Professor for his various health-problems during his lifetime.

 

Whatever it cost to keep him out of a hospital bed was worth it. Had he been in a ward till now, I can't even think of the amount it would have cost.

At least he went on to be of use to society, unlike many of the ungrateful, horrid people the NHS has to care for.

[Pdaz]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The perpetually ill lonely hypochondriacs who clog Doctors surgeries with colds, aches and other problems that could be soothed with over the counter medicines.

 

Easily solved with a bit of lateral thinking. Either make people that present with frivolous complaints wait till the more important cases are seen, all day if necessary, or make them attend a pay for use clinic.

In New Zealand, while hospital care is free, everyone that sees a GP has to pay, quite a lot and even pensioners have to pay. Not sure about children though- perhaps they are free.

 

Yes if there was a fee. even a small one it might keep some of the time wasters away. Unfortunately though I fear many of the time wasters would get an exemption as they are on the social, drug dependent, a migrant, have gender issues etc etc.  A fine for 'wasting the Doctors time" might work :)  My fathers Doctor ( an old family friend ) says he sees the same people over and over again - Career hypochondriacs constantly being shuffled from one department to another trying to fix their mental issue, backache, depression, eating disorder or needing a sick note for work. You are spot on about management rewarding themselves over the workers. It's rife throughout the public sector. Anything Govt funded has been treated as a gravy train. Easy to witness fancy council offices, artwork, seating, team-building holidays, expenses, company cars, fat pension schemes and blown out pay packets. Meanwhile the actual workers with the skills are scratching a living and vilified if they ask for fair pay. Managers, Meetings and Committees are the millstone around every bodies neck. 

Edited August 22, 2017 by Pdaz

[Grouse]

Hawking arrived in accident & emergency. He was in a hell of a state: lacerations, broken bones, grazes. He'd gone out on a blind-date and she had stood him up! ?

[johng]

 Here's one I made earlier!

[emoji106]

 

 

 

 

LOL When is the

"lego Stephen" movie coming out ? 

 

 

 

 

[roo860]

LOL When is the "lego Stephen" movie coming out ? 
 
 
 
 

He's a bit busy at the moment competing on the athletics circuit!

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