Yingluck verdict holds the key to reconciliation

[ginjag]

1 minute ago, CaptHaddock said:

Perhaps because the corrupt actions and abuse of rights undertaken by Thaksin do not approach in severity the crime of stealing the entire government of a nation.  A discussion of mere policy differences entirely misses the point that one party took power by force against the will of the majority of Thai people.

Stick to topic the military are not in the dock.........

[CaptHaddock]

2 minutes ago, ginjag said:

Stick to topic the military are not in the dock.........

At last you've managed to put your finger on the problem.

[LannaGuy]

5 minutes ago, ginjag said:

Just because of my opposition to Thaksin and Yingluck does not make me a military supporter  (your biased thinking) I gave no insults, just plain fact  In fact I detest the word Junta,   and actually thought the word was outlawed on here.  I have shown my distaste to Red shirt brigade and military, but you prefer to not acknowledge that---I am posting about a PM that was completely neglegant, and not chairing the rice committee that is the biggest part of the summons.

What word would you use? are they not a Military Junta?  putting lipstick on a pig does not alter what it is.

[nasanews]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

Yingluck

Her first name says it all.

[JCauto]

31 minutes ago, ginjag said:

You are saying that the red shirts funded and ruled by Thaksin acknowledged what a scumbag he was  ????   are you on this planet--------he paid for control of villages, funded and known reds busing down to BKK......what on earth are you on about  ??......canot speak much unless I drink the same potion as you------your post is all over the place.   OMG

No, I was referring to the posters on this site, which is what you wrote. To whit:

"Again typical reply,  just why in  hell cannot some of you Shin supporters condemn the Yingluck-Thaksin decisions , as well as not liking the military decisions."

 

Note that you were not talking about Red Shirts, you were talking about "you Shin Supporters" and were discussing it here. What else were we to assume? Perhaps you believe that the average farmer in the Northeast avidly follows English language discussions on Thaivisa?

As to your other assertions, it's boring to have to go over the same discredited arguments again and again. Read Chris Baker and others' research on vote-buying and educate yourself. 

 

[ginjag]

4 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

What word would you use? are they not a Military Junta?  putting lipstick on a pig does not alter what it is.

Still off topic,    my remarks refer to a visa note long ago that the word should not be used,  that's all,  but answer why Yingluck is in the dock  ???     because  of the  name ??   or because of a wrong ???      you guys twist the post into a military problem---it is a Yingluck problem.

[ginjag]

1 minute ago, JCauto said:

No, I was referring to the posters on this site, which is what you wrote. To whit:

"Again typical reply,  just why in  hell cannot some of you Shin supporters condemn the Yingluck-Thaksin decisions , as well as not liking the military decisions."

 

Note that you were not talking about Red Shirts, you were talking about "you Shin Supporters" and were discussing it here. What else were we to assume? Perhaps you believe that the average farmer in the Northeast avidly follows English language discussions on Thaivisa?

As to your other assertions, it's boring to have to go over the same discredited arguments again and again. Read Chris Baker and others' research on vote-buying and educate yourself. 

 

Stick to topic,  Yingluck the accused.   backed by the fugitive in the desert 

 

[LannaGuy]

Just now, ginjag said:

Still off topic,    my remarks refer to a visa note long ago that the word should not be used,  that's all,  but answer why Yingluck is in the dock  ???     because  of the  name ??   or because of a wrong ???      you guys twist the post into a military problem---it is a Yingluck problem.

I believe the 'visa note' was about not referring it as a 'D...........' but if I'm wrong it's an innocent mistake and they can remove it. Doesn't change what they are though. Yingluck is in the dock because the Junta took over and wants revenge and her sidelined as they can't beat her in any election.

[JCauto]

Just now, ginjag said:

Stick to topic,  Yingluck the accused.   backed by the fugitive in the desert 

 

I responded directly to your post in both instances. You misunderstood and wrote an insulting post in response, now try to stifle discussion and attempt to restrict others to only what you wish to hear. No wonder you're all in favour of the current situation with respect to democracy.

[ginjag]

Just now, LannaGuy said:

I believe the 'visa note' was about not referring it as a 'D...........' but if I'm wrong it's an innocent mistake and they can remove it. Doesn't change what they are though. Yingluck is in the dock because the Junta took over and wants revenge and her sidelined as they can't beat her in any election.

That remark just sums you few that attack persons like me for highlighting the wrong Yingluck did.

AGAIN you are swerving away from  the main issue, she neglected -because she  was not competent enough to handle the rice situation hence her being abroad shopping when she  needed to be  there, her brother was sort of chairing the rice committee for his own interests.   again stick to topic.

 

 

[ginjag]

5 minutes ago, JCauto said:

I responded directly to your post in both instances. You misunderstood and wrote an insulting post in response, now try to stifle discussion and attempt to restrict others to only what you wish to hear. No wonder you're all in favour of the current situation with respect to democracy.

Insulting ???     you diverted,  you with others are diverting the topic, and blaming posters and the military but not the accused.

[scorecard]

41 minutes ago, CaptHaddock said:

Often the distinction between a lazy, uninformed opinion and sheer stupidity can be hard to discern.  The 30 baht scheme reduced infant mortality in Thailand by 13% in the first year according to researchers at MIT. 

http://news.mit.edu/2014/how-health-care-plan-quickly-lowered-infant-mortality-0430

 

That is a huge public health outcome.  Impoverished households also dropped from 3.4% in 1996 to 0.8 to 1.3% between 2006 and 2009.

 

https://asiancorrespondent.com/2013/04/new-research-continues-to-demonstrate-the-success-of-thailands-universal-coverage-healthcare-scheme/#7UhbVhRk6AqYjLhg.97

 

For starters.  Thaksin made political promises to the Thai majority and he kept those promises, for which they quite understandably love him. 

 

Well not as sweet as you try to portray, but more to the point you ignore the fact that all of it was ultimately for his benefit and the benefit of his family and immoral cronies, nothing more.

 

Plus you conveniently ignore his methods - using and manipulating poor naive unaware folks for his nasty ends.  

[LannaGuy]

11 minutes ago, ginjag said:

That remark just sums you few that attack persons like me for highlighting the wrong Yingluck did.

AGAIN you are swerving away from  the main issue, she neglected -because she  was not competent enough to handle the rice situation hence her being abroad shopping when she  needed to be  there, her brother was sort of chairing the rice committee for his own interests.   again stick to topic.

 

 

 

She did the right thing and started a scheme, that the USA, EU and now Thailand undertake, a subsidy for farmers.  She was unlucky that prices went the way they did but there was not corruption that she was involved in.

 

Stop bringing up her brother STICK to the TOPIC. All PMs make mistakes and there are not enough jails to hold them all. Your Junta buddies have given themselves immunity. That you support a Military Junta amazes me. Yingluck is entirely innocent and they will give her a suspended 'sentence' and a fine to keep her out of winning the next election (which they will rig).  Her star will shine again as she has the country's support. Time will tell.

[piersbeckett]

6 hours ago, Bannoi said:

I don't think the outside world gives a toss what goes on in Thailand.

Isn't that what the question marks indicate in wakeuplease's post?

Edited August 24, 2017 by piersbeckett
punctuation error

[JCauto]

18 minutes ago, ginjag said:

Insulting ???     you diverted,  you with others are diverting the topic, and blaming posters and the military but not the accused.

Insulting? Yes. Here it is as you seem to have a short memory:

"are you on this planet......what on earth are you on about  ??......canot speak much unless I drink the same potion as you------your post is all over the place.   OMG"

 

Diverted? No, the issue we are pointing out is that this trial is a political witchhunt by a group that has seized power illegally. When their basis for holding the trial was abrogating the laws of the country, then they rewrote them, then they hold a trial under their new laws, that's not in our view a valid prosecution. It's entirely on point. 

Once again, you're attempting to censor our posts. You should apply for a foreign liaison position with the Junta.

[Grumpy Duck]

6 hours ago, Siripon said:

There can be no reconciliation whilst Thaksin is still alive. Pheua Thai need to be reborn, free of any Shinawat influence.

Pheua Thai needs realistic long term policies- education for example, to help the grass roots. not catchy superficial nonsense such as one scholarship ,one district.

Thailand is not AIS.

But then who will pay the village headmen and the canvassers? Who will pay the MPs to make sure they pay homage to whichever Shinawat is in power?

If Yingluk hadn't introduced the amnesty bill  Pheua Thai would still be in power today. But she couldn't resist her older brother's demands.

Expel the Shinawats, red shirts and grass roots!

The few Thai people I talk with that will make any comments about this case support Yingluck. But they are worker class, and it is obvious they are not going to share their real beliefs about the junta. 

I am curious, I have been here over 2 years, when I arrived I heard there was an election pending, then it turned into an election will be next year. I recall reading the election was postponed because of the Erawan Shrine bombing. Will there ever be a free election?

[sawadee1947]

6 hours ago, Siripon said:

There can be no reconciliation whilst Thaksin is still alive. Pheua Thai need to be reborn, free of any Shinawat influence.

Pheua Thai needs realistic long term policies- education for example, to help the grass roots. not catchy superficial nonsense such as one scholarship ,one district.

Thailand is not AIS.

But then who will pay the village headmen and the canvassers? Who will pay the MPs to make sure they pay homage to whichever Shinawat is in power?

If Yingluk hadn't introduced the amnesty bill  Pheua Thai would still be in power today. But she couldn't resist her older brother's demands.

Expel the Shinawats, red shirts and grass roots!

what a horrible nonsense.!!!!!

Do you think honestly there would be a sudden change in Thailand without a couple of people.????? No way.

BTW there are more Shinawatras coming. Enough for the next 50 or 100 years or more.

A change has to start from the beginning!! From Kindergarten on, primary school, High school, university. Then there might be a change if the parents and teachers, just the whole society would change. And you cannot order the change or reconciliation. There has to be a change in virtues, laws, character.  It's a matter of education.

[Grumpy Duck]

1 minute ago, sawadee1947 said:

what a horrible nonsense.!!!!!

Do you think honestly there would be a sudden change in Thailand without a couple of people.????? No way.

BTW there are more Shinawatras coming. Enough for the next 50 or 100 years or more.

A change has to start from the beginning!! From Kindergarten on, primary school, High school, university. Then there might be a change if the parents and teachers, just the whole society would change. And you cannot order the change or reconciliation. There has to be a change in virtues, laws, character.  It's a matter of education.

Excellent post. 

Is there any change occurring in education?

[CaptHaddock]

 

8 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Well not as sweet as you try to portray, but more to the point you ignore the fact that all of it was ultimately for his benefit and the benefit of his family and immoral cronies, nothing more.

 

Plus you conveniently ignore his methods - using and manipulating poor naive unaware folks for his nasty ends.  

Reading not your strong point in school then?  I pointed out significant benefits to the low income majority of Thailand, which you unaccountably insist were benefits only for the Shinawatra faction.  You just refuse to see that Thaksin did provide genuine, important benefits to the Thai majority, which is why he was overwhelmingly re-elected, the first PM in Thailand to win re-election with a majority.  

 

It's fine to criticize Thaksin for his corruption, but if you imagine for an instant that corruption has declined since Thaksin's expulsion then you are hopelessly naive.  Here's one time series on the subject.  Corruption hasn't gone down, but it has gone into other pockets.

 

 

 

 

[sawadee1947]

3 minutes ago, Grumpy Duck said:

Excellent post. 

Is there any change occurring in education?

I can't see at present.

Fact is that YOU have to pay fees to the teacher for admission. (high school, university)

So don't expect too much

[ginjag]

24 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

 

She did the right thing and started a scheme, that the USA, EU and now Thailand undertake, a subsidy for farmers.  She was unlucky that prices went the way they did but there was not corruption that she was involved in.

 

Stop bringing up her brother STICK to the TOPIC. All PMs make mistakes and there are not enough jails to hold them all. Your Junta buddies have given themselves immunity. That you support a Military Junta amazes me. Yingluck is entirely innocent and they will give her a suspended 'sentence' and a fine to keep her out of winning the next election (which they will rig).  Her star will shine again as she has the country's support. Time will tell.

She made a mistake ???     not chairing vital rice committees  ???  or any if it comes to that, Her brother controlled so this was the reason he is mentioned.  you are repeating your war cry---"My junts buddies"  don't be so childich I have repeatedly said I am not a military lover in charge.   PLEASE NOTE THIS,  and never mind the caps.---I am sorry but quote "her star will shine-and she is entirely innocent"    not worth discussing with you any more,   ridiculous, 

Edited August 24, 2017 by ginjag

[ginjag]

17 minutes ago, JCauto said:

Insulting? Yes. Here it is as you seem to have a short memory:

"are you on this planet......what on earth are you on about  ??......canot speak much unless I drink the same potion as you------your post is all over the place.   OMG"

 

Diverted? No, the issue we are pointing out is that this trial is a political witchhunt by a group that has seized power illegally. When their basis for holding the trial was abrogating the laws of the country, then they rewrote them, then they hold a trial under their new laws, that's not in our view a valid prosecution. It's entirely on point. 

Once again, you're attempting to censor our posts. You should apply for a foreign liaison position with the Junta.

The issue is, awaiting a verdict on weather Yingluck is guilty or not---simple as that,  your inbuilt hatred stands out,  stick to topic yingluck was controlled by a.n. other, and neglected her duties.  She was warned by so many different academics in Thai society because of the rice scheme---- it failed badly---say 500 billion,  and you are blaming all and sundry.

[JCauto]

5 minutes ago, ginjag said:

The issue is, awaiting a verdict on weather Yingluck is guilty or not---simple as that,  your inbuilt hatred stands out,  stick to topic yingluck was controlled by a.n. other, and neglected her duties.  She was warned by so many different academics in Thai society because of the rice scheme---- it failed badly---say 500 billion,  and you are blaming all and sundry.

In your view it is. In our view it is not. We've provided ample reasoning behind why we believe this to be the case. Instead of debating the issue, you continuously post "stay on the topic" unless someone is condemning the Shinawatras, and resort to the usual tactic of reading things into our posts that we haven't stated. 

As to your "points":

"your inbuilt hatred stands out" - to what does this refer?

 

"Yingluck...neglected her duties and was warned by academics" - So Chuan Leekpai was quite a bad head of government, and was generally seen as an honest but poor Prime Minister who wasn't able to get things done. Should he go to jail for that? 

 

"you are blaming all and sundry." - not at all, I'm blaming the Shins for their corruption but applauding what they did for the poor farmers, while blaming the Junta for retarding Thai democracy and perpetuating business as usual. Were you thinking of someone else?

You seem to lack an ability to debate (and spell). Do try to address the points made, stop attempting to tell us what we can and cannot say, and try to be a bit coherent. 

[metisdead]

Posts containing off topic generalizations about Trump have been removed as well as the replies. 

[JAG]

You are saying that the red shirts funded and ruled by Thaksin acknowledged what a scumbag he was  ????   are you on this planet--------he paid for control of villages, funded and known reds busing down to BKK......what on earth are you on about  ??......canot speak much unless I drink the same potion as you------your post is all over the place.   OMG

Whilst we're on the subject of posts being all over the place ...

 

[LannaGuy]

48 minutes ago, ginjag said:

She made a mistake ???     not chairing vital rice committees  ???  or any if it comes to that, Her brother controlled so this was the reason he is mentioned.  you are repeating your war cry---"My junts buddies"  don't be so childich I have repeatedly said I am not a military lover in charge.   PLEASE NOTE THIS,  and never mind the caps.---I am sorry but quote "her star will shine-and she is entirely innocent"    not worth discussing with you any more,   ridiculous, 

I see you have no experience in management or governance. I have.

 

I was chair of many meetings and did not attend most, delegating it to my team. SOP (Standard Operating Practice).

 

PM's and presidents do not 'Chair' all their committee's and meetings and your failure to understand this very basic concept is frightening.  As for posts all over the place... 

[ginjag]

29 minutes ago, JCauto said:

In your view it is. In our view it is not. We've provided ample reasoning behind why we believe this to be the case. Instead of debating the issue, you continuously post "stay on the topic" unless someone is condemning the Shinawatras, and resort to the usual tactic of reading things into our posts that we haven't stated. 

As to your "points":

"your inbuilt hatred stands out" - to what does this refer?

 

"Yingluck...neglected her duties and was warned by academics" - So Chuan Leekpai was quite a bad head of government, and was generally seen as an honest but poor Prime Minister who wasn't able to get things done. Should he go to jail for that? 

 

"you are blaming all and sundry." - not at all, I'm blaming the Shins for their corruption but applauding what they did for the poor farmers, while blaming the Junta for retarding Thai democracy and perpetuating business as usual. Were you thinking of someone else?

You seem to lack an ability to debate (and spell). Do try to address the points made, stop attempting to tell us what we can and cannot say, and try to be a bit coherent. 

Bye      topic did Yingluck neglect or not,  not who is trying to put her in jail.      What the Shins did for what poor farmers-----Middle men yes, not the the small poor farmer NO.

[melvinmelvin]

I sort of disagree with the news cut from the Nation that started this topic.

The verdict supposed to be announced Friday will in may view not do anything positive or negative

re reconciliation.

If the possible outcome is as stated above, guilty+x years in the clink, suspended, not guilty

none of the 3 will make the majority happy and the "losing" party accepting it.

 

If there is going to be an open election next year, in my view the reconcile bit is lost for this time around,

not time enough available to make any meaningful reconciliation.

 

The PM took over the buraucracy? (red-tape) quite effectively fairly soon after the coup.

He had excellent opportunities to start working on reconciliation. But like most of his military coup maker colleagues around the world he chucked the opportunity out the window. Cleaned ministries, departments

and other institutions of red-shirts and red-shirt sympathisers and spliced in a combination of military and yellow shirt (I say red and yellow shirts just for simplicity).

This made life easier for him and his cabinet - sure - but also created hard feelings.

 

In my view he should have used the opportunity to force red&yellow to work together in the administration

and he should have had a significant number of reds in all the organisational units he created.

 

Utopic? Maybe, but then so would peaceful politics in LoS be.

The deep red<-->yellow mistrust must be overcome if you want smooth and productive politics in LoS. Being forced to work together is one way.

 

Head banging is frequently used in international political negotiations.

 

[ginjag]

3 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

I see you have no experience in management or governance. I have.

 

I was chair of many meetings and did not attend most, delegating it to my team. SOP (Standard Operating Practice).

 

PM's and presidents do not 'Chair' all their committee's and meetings and your failure to understand this very basic concept is frightening.  As for posts all over the place... 

So you loved to delegate ??    same Yingluck, her problem was she delegated because she had no idea how to chair a committee on  the subject.    Think your delegation was fine because you knew,  she had not a clue and her brother put her in an impossible position,    I feel a bit sorry for the lost soul.

[LannaGuy]

Just now, ginjag said:

So you loved to delegate ??    same Yingluck, her problem was she delegated because she had no idea how to chair a committee on  the subject.    Think your delegation was fine because you knew,  she had not a clue and her brother put her in an impossible position,    I feel a bit sorry for the lost soul.

You don't know that you just believe the spin that she is stupid and/or in her brothers control and I believe neither.