Specific Questions On International Schools

[tigerbeer]

why is prem so expensive? whats so good about it? anyone? *just wondering*

[Puwa]

So we finally chose CMIS. On balance, it's the best choice for us.

[truman]

So we finally chose CMIS. On balance, it's the best choice for us.

As a father of a 12year old daughter i will tell you my kind of "experiences" with International schools.

First a few facts:

The "German Int. School" is in my eyes nothing else then a "nice recreation and long-terme vacation place" for adventures good payed german state-officers....

No doubt about it, due of complicated german laws not even able to give any kind of recognized degree....

And the best: Not even accredited in Germany itself!

NIS and Lanna International

NIS has a pretty nice outfit...important here students are teached by the American Curriculum.

Lanna prepares for the English Curriculum and is also since last year Centerpoint for the Cambridge Degree.

American Degrees are good for the Americas..., for europeans a bit difficult later on, just in case.

Grace

Highnosed employees, asking for "Sponsors or other stuff..."...

Not to recommend, if your grandfather is not a relative from the Mormon-Leader...

CMIS

Pretty cheap, like Grace, 100.000 Baht per year...plus..plus...

Heard that they require a pretty hard test before you can pay...

In 2005 they have had no own transportation system....

Maybe now..

There is also the American Pacific Int. School.

That is the school with the Kindergarten close to Grace............................

Located about 15-20 km outside direction Samoeng, started at Hangdong Road..

Big new Mercedes-Bent buses....high security, what i saw.....

Couldn't even get in touch with these school 2005, no response on calls or on letters....

Edited April 11, 2007 by truman

[swain]

I hope this is not too far off topic but in your exploring these international schools, have you seen anything that would lead you to believe that they are imposing gender roles on the kids.. Meaning... if my daughter is going to be taught Thai traditional roles for women, I would, as soon as my daughter is of school age take her back to the USA to go to school there.

[Puwa]

I hope this is not too far off topic but in your exploring these international schools, have you seen anything that would lead you to believe that they are imposing gender roles on the kids.. Meaning... if my daughter is going to be taught Thai traditional roles for women, I would, as soon as my daughter is of school age take her back to the USA to go to school there.

It's not off topic, but it is sort of hard to answer. Thai schools definitely reinforce traditional ideas about how women should behave in society--to be feminine, demure, marriageable, etc. By nature, international schools will not overtly push "Thai traditional roles for women," though some will seep in. And the ideas and images are pervasive in all media and culture that, quite frankly, you can't avoid it. Any Thai preschool teacher, babysitter, friend of the family, etc., will carry all that stuff automatically (for both boys and girls). And TV is, well, extreme.

Personally, however, I wouldn't worry too much. I say this having lived here for 10 years. For one thing, there's no changing it or avoiding it. For another, there are lots of bright, confident, independent, and successful Thai women who are not confined to "traditional" roles-- and they went to Thai schools, not international ones. In fact, women in Thai society enjoy much more equality in terms of education, career, and lifestyle than almost anywhere else in Asia, except maybe Hong Kong and Singapore.

My last point--and I say this without a trace of farang "I-was-here-first" curmudgeonliness or male "I-like-'em-hot-and-demure-anyway" shallowness--if you're really not comfortable with basic Thai values, you might not enjoy living and raising a family here. Otherwise, what's the point? Anyway, good luck sorting all this out.

[truman]

why is prem so expensive? whats so good about it? anyone? *just wondering*

Good question, i'll give you the answer.

Prem Int. is the only school in northern Thailand offering IB-Diplomas.

International Baccalaureate degrees. Íts some kind of accreditation named IB World Schools.

As i now by now, a "little Swiss Organisation" stand behind all that.

Swiss law governs these general regulations and all other procedures .......

Not cheap, the yearly renewings and procederes....

especially if these swiss-reprentatives are showing up yearly...

A "caughing" question in such IB World Schools should be:

HOW MANY STUDENTS PASSES THIS IB DEGREE!

Don't be shocked hearing the answer...or a simple caughing!

[Ricardo]

why is prem so expensive? whats so good about it? anyone? *just wondering*

Good question, i'll give you the answer.

Prem Int. is the only school in northern Thailand offering IB-Diplomas.

International Baccalaureate degrees. Íts some kind of accreditation named IB World Schools.

As i now by now, a "little Swiss Organisation" stand behind all that.

The IB-system runs throughout the school, leading to the IB-Diploma, not a degree, which is a university entry-level qualification widely accepted round the world. For you Brits, this is the standard which Tony Blair, and his minions, recently considered for the UK, before deciding that British schools could never reach such a high standard !

Swiss law governs these general regulations and all other procedures .......

Not cheap, the yearly renewings and procederes....

especially if these swiss-reprentatives are showing up yearly...

True, but what would be the point of a system of standards, which didn't include monitoring ? Representatives can also be from other, local in Asia, IB-schools, by the way - and senior Prem staff also visit nearby IB-schools to carry out similar monitoring.

A "caughing" question in such IB World Schools should be:

HOW MANY STUDENTS PASSES THIS IB DEGREE!

Don't be shocked hearing the answer...or a simple caughing!

You would prefer a system, where a significant proportion of students FAIL to reach a sufficient standard, for entry to universities, throughout the world ?

Most of the international schools in CM are religious, to some extent, which is fine, if that is what you want. Prem isn't, also the facilities are very good, for a relatively-new still-growing school. A site-visit will demonstrate this.

But you do pay a very-full price, which can hurt, if you're not having your fees paid by an employer. But then - TANSTAAFL , right ? Their marketing and admin are also not yet world-class - IMHO.

Edited April 14, 2007 by Ricardo

[slapout]

Some of the schools do standardized testing like the Stanford 9 tests used in the States. You might ask for the average results for class levels to see how they stack up.

CMIS gave this Stanford 9 test until two years ago. They have now discontinued this test due to the fact that they say the students who are not fluent in English are at a disadvantage, and they also mentioned the cost of grading this test. They have subsequently gone to a tryout on an Australian test as per the Canadian principal. If the Australian test is "sastifactory" to the principal or the powers that be, I guess they will continue this type of test. However, if it is not "satisfactory" with the Thai parents, the principal, or the school administrators, I guess we have to go back and start again, which leaves a two and pausibly three year vacuum that we do not know how the students test out compared to Stanford 9 testing. The Australian test was deemed as "too easy" by the students as everyone passed (if that's what you want to see), that makes the school look good. My daughter was offered a free ride (I guess you would say scholarship) to go to Prem International School after a one on one conversation with a Prem administrator, so trust me, I am not blowing smoke up any one's a$$. If people would pressure CMIS and all international schools to do international comparitive testing with comparitive grading then we can ask for a better education system here in Thailand.

[ferd54]

Some of the schools do standardized testing like the Stanford 9 tests used in the States. You might ask for the average results for class levels to see how they stack up.

CMIS gave this Stanford 9 test until two years ago. They have now discontinued this test due to the fact that they say the students who are not fluent in English are at a disadvantage, and they also mentioned the cost of grading this test. They have subsequently gone to a tryout on an Australian test as per the Canadian principal. If the Australian test is "sastifactory" to the principal or the powers that be, I guess they will continue this type of test. However, if it is not "satisfactory" with the Thai parents, the principal, or the school administrators, I guess we have to go back and start again, which leaves a two and pausibly three year vacuum that we do not know how the students test out compared to Stanford 9 testing. The Australian test was deemed as "too easy" by the students as everyone passed (if that's what you want to see), that makes the school look good. My daughter was offered a free ride (I guess you would say scholarship) to go to Prem International School after a one on one conversation with a Prem administrator, so trust me, I am not blowing smoke up any one's a$$. If people would pressure CMIS and all international schools to do international comparitive testing with comparitive grading then we can ask for a better education system here in Thailand.

It's my understanding that Prem is quite "flexible" in they deals they cut, but I know if I paid full value and they negotiated a different price for another family I would not be too happy about it...

Schools should use the Sandord testing system as it is tried and true and has a real baseline from which tests can be evaluated worldwide.

[earlofwindermere]

I am a former teacher and I have a different perspective on the standardized testing....

At the three schools where I taught, two told their students to not even worry about it. The scores had no impact on the student's final grade and as little time as possible was spent on preparing the students for the exam. For all practical purposes, the exams were completed (as required) and then never mentioned again.

The third school spent many hours prepping the students and went over old exam questions. In order for the students to take the exam seriously, they made it worth 25% of their final grade. The school also told a select few students to be sick on testing day which would help boost the overall score of the shool. The end result was that the school did get decent scores and they boasted about it. I know that this might not be true of all schools, but I'm sure that similar things happen.

However; standardized testing begs the question: Does "good education" really mean that my child can answer a bunch of questions that some testing company thinks is important? Heck, does good education mean that my student knows how to write an exam? My personal opinion is that there are a lot of other more important factors that determine a good education. When my wife and I go school shopping, the school's test scores will be the last thing that we think about.

[swain]

I hope this is not too far off topic but in your exploring these international schools, have you seen anything that would lead you to believe that they are imposing gender roles on the kids.. Meaning... if my daughter is going to be taught Thai traditional roles for women, I would, as soon as my daughter is of school age take her back to the USA to go to school there.

It's not off topic, but it is sort of hard to answer. Thai schools definitely reinforce traditional ideas about how women should behave in society--to be feminine, demure, marriageable, etc. By nature, international schools will not overtly push "Thai traditional roles for women," though some will seep in. And the ideas and images are pervasive in all media and culture that, quite frankly, you can't avoid it. Any Thai preschool teacher, babysitter, friend of the family, etc., will carry all that stuff automatically (for both boys and girls). And TV is, well, extreme.

Personally, however, I wouldn't worry too much. I say this having lived here for 10 years. For one thing, there's no changing it or avoiding it. For another, there are lots of bright, confident, independent, and successful Thai women who are not confined to "traditional" roles-- and they went to Thai schools, not international ones. In fact, women in Thai society enjoy much more equality in terms of education, career, and lifestyle than almost anywhere else in Asia, except maybe Hong Kong and Singapore.

My last point--and I say this without a trace of farang "I-was-here-first" curmudgeonliness or male "I-like-'em-hot-and-demure-anyway" shallowness--if you're really not comfortable with basic Thai values, you might not enjoy living and raising a family here. Otherwise, what's the point? Anyway, good luck sorting all this out.

I do like basic Thai values, and can appreciate the lifestyle and beauty of its culture. It does not mean that I am interested in giving my daughter the basic belief structure that she is second to anyone. I can look at a flower and appreciate its beauty. I love my wife who also broke with Thai tradition and went to a Christian school growing up and then on to one of the better university's in Thailand. She also would not eat after the men hand taken their fill, and got up when the men did as apposed to getting up at the crack of dawn to cook and clean. With her as a role model I am sure we can over come the bombardment of male dominated thought process. But I think it might be easier ... path of least resistance --when my daughter gets to school age to consider the possibility of going back to the USA. I really love it here.. but her development gets precedence over my desire to stay.

[swain]

I hope this is not too far off topic but in your exploring these international schools, have you seen anything that would lead you to believe that they are imposing gender roles on the kids.. Meaning... if my daughter is going to be taught Thai traditional roles for women, I would, as soon as my daughter is of school age take her back to the USA to go to school there.

It's not off topic, but it is sort of hard to answer. Thai schools definitely reinforce traditional ideas about how women should behave in society--to be feminine, demure, marriageable, etc. By nature, international schools will not overtly push "Thai traditional roles for women," though some will seep in. And the ideas and images are pervasive in all media and culture that, quite frankly, you can't avoid it. Any Thai preschool teacher, babysitter, friend of the family, etc., will carry all that stuff automatically (for both boys and girls). And TV is, well, extreme.

Personally, however, I wouldn't worry too much. I say this having lived here for 10 years. For one thing, there's no changing it or avoiding it. For another, there are lots of bright, confident, independent, and successful Thai women who are not confined to "traditional" roles-- and they went to Thai schools, not international ones. In fact, women in Thai society enjoy much more equality in terms of education, career, and lifestyle than almost anywhere else in Asia, except maybe Hong Kong and Singapore.

My last point--and I say this without a trace of farang "I-was-here-first" curmudgeonliness or male "I-like-'em-hot-and-demure-anyway" shallowness--if you're really not comfortable with basic Thai values, you might not enjoy living and raising a family here. Otherwise, what's the point? Anyway, good luck sorting all this out.

I do like basic Thai values, and can appreciate the lifestyle and beauty of its culture. It does not mean that I am interested in giving my daughter the basic belief structure that she is second to anyone. I can look at a flower and appreciate its beauty but I don't necessarily want my daughter to be one. I love my wife, She broke with Thai tradition early in life and went to a Christian school as a child and then eventually on to one of the better university's in Thailand. As a child she rebelled, she would not eat after the men had taken their fill, she took her share of the meat. She got up when the men did as apposed to getting up at the crack of dawn to cook and clean as the other women did. She was at the top of her classes and was decorated by the queen for her honors. Her father only had girls and was making sure his daughter got all the breaks to do the best in her life and in the world. UNTIL one day two weeks before she graduated with honors and scholarships to pay for collage, (all except dorm fees which her father promised to pay for) her father had a SON.. She was immediately NOT important anymore. Daddy decided it would be better for her to stay home and be a nanny to take care of her brother than to go to university. As you can imagine she had worked her entire life up to this point, going to school 7 days a week. The gifted school she was going to and the honors classes she was attending demanded all her time, there were no days off... The school even controlled her diet so that she would have the best brain food. All of this kept her motivated to go to school with a promise of a small reward from her father (dorm fees). As you can imagine, she broke Thai tradition again and went against her fathers will, she was 18 and basically said SCREW this and left home with her younger sister so her father would not make a slave out of her as well. She worked at a 24 hour restaurant as cashier at night and went to the local almost free collage during the day. This is where I met her, (another story). She is now back at a grade A university and at the top of her class (and I do mean at the very top).. . With her as a role model I am sure we can over come the bombardment of male dominated thought process. But I think it might be easier ... path of least resistance --when my daughter gets to school age to consider the possibility of going back to the USA. I really love it here.. but her development gets precedence over my desire to stay.

[steve__C]

My son will be ready for his first year of primary school in about half a year, and so my wife and I are searching for the right international school here in Chiang Mai. I have researched posts on this board pretty thoroughly, including the pinned items, and now I have specific questions which can probably only be answered by parents who have children studying in the schools now. Searching the archives helped a lot, but many of the posts are three years old or more, so updates are needed.

I have other questions that can be answered best by the schools themselves, but that's a separate matter.

Here we go:

CMIS - In your experience, what is the actual substance and intention of the religious, viz. Christian, tilt in the school? How prevalent is it in the curriculum and culture of the place? Let me explain that my personal belief is that education, for my children anyway, is best pursued in a secular way. I'm not intolerant about it, and I understand that institutions can have varying shades of religious affiliation; I just want to nail down the fact of the matter. By raising this question, I have no intention of sparking a debate, so please let's not get into it. In your experience, do teachers refer to religious concepts or use materials that reflect religious themes? Is there any indirect proselytizing or suggested religious preference expressed? Experience has taught me that for one reason or another, schools do not always accurately describe religion in education, so in addition to asking them directly, I want to hear from parents.

(in fact, by way of a light but telling anecdote, my son is enrolled in a well-known bilingual kindergarten in town, one which downplays its Christian bent in writing and when the staff are asked, but which plays it up ineluctably during parties and events. one day my son explained that he had learned that good people, when they die, will go up into the sky and enter hel_l When asked, he reported that he learned it in school.)

Nakorn Payap - A couple of years ago the prevailing opinion seemed to be that NIS had a nice new campus, but was struggling with both the educational and administrative running of the school. I read that the student body wasn't very international--meaning I guess that it consisted largely of Thai students-- and turnover of teachers seemed high. What about today? Has the school managed to retain good primary-grade teachers? More diversity in the student body? Any parents out there with thoughts on the performance of NIS at the lower grade levels?

Also will be checking out Prem, but it may just cost too much. Mostly I hear praise form parents for the lower grades, and mixed reviews of the high school.

Thanks....Puwa

We have a son who is about to go into grade 1 and are looking at schools also. (I think he must go to the same bilingual pre-school as your son Puwa - the christianity is becoming more apparent at the parties...)

A few people have told me that the number of native english speakers and level of english at CMIS is a very important factor but I am a little concerned about the religious side of things. I was told that in grade 1 there are 2 teachers. One is old and religious, the other younger and less so - do you get to choose? I am still no wiser after this thread as to just how much dogma is fed to the children at CMIS.

A vaccination history is also required on the CMIS application. We treat our son homeopathically so we are a little lacking in that department. Is this likely to be a problem?

We visited Prem which has a beautiful campus but is an hour's drive from where we live near the Night Safari. Two hours travelling a day for a six year old is excessive.

Does anybody have any views on APIS which is on our side of town?

[PeaceBlondie]

I've just researched, and am curious about COST. It isn't mentioned anywhere that I can see in this forum, and I checked websites of the main schools mentioned here. I can't find it for CMIS or APIS and didn't look for NIS. The costs for a 13 year old student in their first year would be 688,000 baht at Prem, and 203,000 baht at APIS (not including boarding or ESL, and some deposits are refundable). Big difference there. Any other total costs for the other schools?

[Ricardo]

I've just researched, and am curious about COST. It isn't mentioned anywhere that I can see in this forum, and I checked websites of the main schools mentioned here. I can't find it for CMIS or APIS and didn't look for NIS. The costs for a 13 year old student in their first year would be 688,000 baht at Prem, and 203,000 baht at APIS (not including boarding or ESL, and some deposits are refundable). Big difference there. Any other total costs for the other schools?

I suspect that the figure for Prem for a new student would include a one-off 50,000 Baht refundable (upon leaving) Security-Deposit, also the one-off 130,000 Baht Foundation-Fee, which helps fund scholarships. Also Transport & Lunches may be included in this cost, are they included in the CMIS fees ?

As a rough-guide, tuition-fees in Senior-School at Prem are more like 375k-400k, which is probably still more than at any other International-School in the area.

[ferd54]

I've just researched, and am curious about COST. It isn't mentioned anywhere that I can see in this forum, and I checked websites of the main schools mentioned here. I can't find it for CMIS or APIS and didn't look for NIS. The costs for a 13 year old student in their first year would be 688,000 baht at Prem, and 203,000 baht at APIS (not including boarding or ESL, and some deposits are refundable). Big difference there. Any other total costs for the other schools?

I checked the NIS website -- for Grades 7-12 the tuition is 186,000 per year plus a non-refundable registration fee of 60,000 baht. If the student needs EFL support, fees are higher.

See here

CMIS and NIS used to have similar fee structures but I don't know if that is still the case

[Bill97]

I've just researched, and am curious about COST. It isn't mentioned anywhere that I can see in this forum, and I checked websites of the main schools mentioned here. I can't find it for CMIS or APIS and didn't look for NIS. The costs for a 13 year old student in their first year would be 688,000 baht at Prem, and 203,000 baht at APIS (not including boarding or ESL, and some deposits are refundable). Big difference there. Any other total costs for the other schools?

I suspect that the figure for Prem for a new student would include a one-off 50,000 Baht refundable (upon leaving) Security-Deposit, also the one-off 130,000 Baht Foundation-Fee, which helps fund scholarships. Also Transport & Lunches may be included in this cost, are they included in the CMIS fees ?

As a rough-guide, tuition-fees in Senior-School at Prem are more like 375k-400k, which is probably still more than at any other International-School in the area.

Got some info that Prem is using two fee schedules and the 375k-400k is for old students. New students prices for high school are a bit more, 435k-462k not including lunch, transport, ESL or the one-off fees mentioned above. Prices for new students are on the school website.

[Chrissygunn]

I've just researched, and am curious about COST. It isn't mentioned anywhere that I can see in this forum, and I checked websites of the main schools mentioned here. I can't find it for CMIS or APIS and didn't look for NIS. The costs for a 13 year old student in their first year would be 688,000 baht at Prem, and 203,000 baht at APIS (not including boarding or ESL, and some deposits are refundable). Big difference there. Any other total costs for the other schools?

I suspect that the figure for Prem for a new student would include a one-off 50,000 Baht refundable (upon leaving) Security-Deposit, also the one-off 130,000 Baht Foundation-Fee, which helps fund scholarships. Also Transport & Lunches may be included in this cost, are they included in the CMIS fees ?

As a rough-guide, tuition-fees in Senior-School at Prem are more like 375k-400k, which is probably still more than at any other International-School in the area.

Got some info that Prem is using two fee schedules and the 375k-400k is for old students. New students prices for high school are a bit more, 435k-462k not including lunch, transport, ESL or the one-off fees mentioned above. Prices for new students are on the school website.

Hi, I've been really interested to read all the contributions to this topic as my husband and I are planning a move to Chiang Mai in April 08 with our sons, 10 and 7 years. Does anyone have any information or views on Lanna School? This is the one we are most interested in so far. I'd also like to hear from anyone else who has sent children to a Thai school with an English Programme as someone mentioned. So far both our two have attended an English village school with a strong sense of the joy of learning....obviously we'd like that to continue and will take responsibility to ensure it does at home. We are planning to come there because we like it.......so we'd like a school which is rooted in Thailand if that makes sense...we would hope to make our home there rather than be brief visitors so would like our boys to attend a school with a fair amount of others who will be sticking around. This is my first post and I'd appreciate all advice. thank-you Chrissy.

[Mapguy]

SHOULD WE JUST BE TALKING JUST ABOUT INTERNATIONAL SCHOOLS?

This thread is a particularly thoughtful thread on an important topic. There are a number of threads on the same general topic, which vary quite a bit in scope and "quality."

Is some sort of consolidation possible and/or useful?

One reason might be that unless people search assiduously, they might miss some valuable input. Newcomers might find it hard to tune into discussion as thoughtful as this one.

Another reason might be that in narrowing the focus of the topic, as one poster noted, consideration of two other types of schools, particularly for Thai-farang parents with their own or Thai step-children, is missing.

One alternative to the international school is the "bilingual school," such as Little Stars in which pre-school (through K3) instruction is half and half, so to speak, in English and Thai. I am not aware of any other bilingual schools of this nature, especially for older children. The second alternative is schools with both Thai and English-language tracks. There are a considerable number of schools like this in Chiang Mai of varying focus and quality.

GENERAL EDUCATION

My Thai wife and I (American) have a child in Little Stars. I am an educator myself with experience in both private and public (government) schools in a few countries, but we are having trouble deciding upon the next step to take with our child. For a moment, putting school costs, school quality, the question of secular versus religious schools, and convenience issues (e.g., location) aside, there are for us two key questions. I apologize if I get too pedantic here!

* Do I want my child culturally to be an "international person" or culturally Thai who is well educated and speaks English well ?

* What method of learning and learning situation is best for the child? Where can I find them?

Regarding the first question, my answer right now is that I hope our child will have the adaptability and skills to manage very effectively in the global village, if you'll pardon the cliché, but also never lose her "roots," and be highly proficient and respected for her knowledge of Thai culture and ability to express herself in the Thai language. The latter is needed to be respected and effective in Thailand.

There is no universally effective method of learning, but on the second question, I come down heavily on the side of what are commonly called "Best Practices." Examples of these would be project- and problem-based learning. [Google them for more info.] One important aspect of the approach is "learning how to learn." In a rapidly and constantly changing world, this is in heavy, heavy demand.

In contrast to "Best Practices," there are the traditional didactic and practice modes of instruction which predominate in Asia practically to the exclusion of any other form of instruction. The result can be some highly skilled people. They know the script but can be at a loss coping effectively with change.

In Asia --- from Japan to Thailand --- ministries of education "talk the talk but don't walk the walk" when it comes to reform in education. Effective reform is not easy.

About the learning situation, as an educator, I would point to two factors above all others: How many students are there in the classroom? And who is sitting next to my kid? Thai classrooms (as most in Asia) are too packed. Look for no less thirty students, normally forty plus, sometimes over fifty! Are the classmates well rounded and capable of talking about physics as well as football? What about the parents?

SOME OBSERVATIONS ON CHIANG MAI SCHOOLS

So, what about Chiang Mai schools? Here are some miscellaneous observations after talking with lots of teachers in different sorts of schools in town as well as some parents and visits to schools.

College Admissions: The track record of the international schools isn't really very impressive when it comes to getting kids into top-notch colleges and universities. Why so? One big reason is that they are not "merit schools." They basically take all comers. All in all, CMIS, Prem and NIS (the last two being newcomers) are probably most successful, especially with admissions outside of Thailand.

Teachers and Teaching Credentials: You have to look long and hard in Chiang Mai to find teachers who are "certified" let alone are certified by good schools. Or have decent advanced degrees! Certification is certainly no guarantee of competence in the classroom. On the other hand, some very smart people can't teach their way out of a paperbag. I'd look for advanced degrees both in education and in the teaching field as well as certification. By the way, for those who have kids in school now, listening to them isn't a bad idea, either --- but with a grain of salt, from my experience!

Language Tracks: Unless you are in Chiang Mai (or Thailand) only briefly, my conclusion is that if you put a child in an English language track, the child should have a tutor for Thai culture and language. And vice versa.

School Factories: Except for the international schools, many of the better schools are huge and their classrooms are packed. Montfort College, Varee, Prince Royal's, Dara, as well as a couple of competitive schools like Yuparaj, are factories. Their classrooms? There are some highly competitive kids (sometimes not understanding the meaning of collaboration) in the front row, so to speak. Then, there are the "neglected" average students. Last --- maybe in the last row --- there are the rowdies. Some of the "better" schools have significant discipline problems, sometimes with children of "privileged" or well-connected families. What's a teacher to do ??!! But there are also some serious discipline problems in some of the international schools.

Tutors and Cram Schools ["juku]": The situation isn’t nearly as bad as in Japan or Korea (national scandals!), but it is probably fair to say that tutors are important in Thailand. The need will vary, obviously, with the child and with the particular school situation. This is probably very true regarding learning a language.

Cultural Mix: The cultural mix in international schools might make a significant difference.

North American versus European versus Other Distant Climes to the South: When the smoke clears, I don't believe that there are significant differences among academically rigorous schools. If you insist that your child speak "Oxbridge," well, that's a different matter!

Cost: Face it! Prem is a country club! So, you pay country club fees! There is a lot of money going into other private schools, such as NIS and Varee. But one question you might ask any school is what percentage of revenue goes into instruction and instructional materials, the chief cost of which is teacher salaries. Outside of capital costs (Is an Olympic pool really necessary?!) 80%+ is a good answer. But good luck getting a complete answer!

MISCELANEOUS:

Other than the obvious, such as visiting schools and asking lots of questions, getting to know parents and chatting it up, there are "teacher kvetch" websites for international schools (www.internationalschoolsreview.com/) Maybe CM teachers will start a thread on ThaiVisa! Not a bad idea, come to think of it! But if you think there are problems in Thailand, wait until you read…!

Anon!

[rethaired]

Prem, I requested the certifications that their foreign teachers held, only to be told that many were not certified, but essentially college graduates (Education majors) with little to no real teaching experience in their home countries.

Bob,

Could you please let us know when you got this info about Prem teachers not being certified? Was it this year or how many years ago?

Thanks very much.

I'm not Bob - don't even have an uncle named Bob, but may have something of interest to share.

Last March I attended an international schools language conference in Bangkok. Got talking to a couple of teachers from Prem and they themselves mentioned that many of the teachers at Prem are there doing their teaching practicum for uni. There are a handful of very experienced and well-qualified teachers, but many of the teachers are young and in their last year of their education degrees. Not that this makes them unfit to teach - it's just not what Prem advertises...

As for NIS - while the location is great and the facilities are nice and shiny new and the teachers are certainly qualified and capable, the resources available to teachers are lacking (to say the least) - there is no professional development offered, the library is pitiful, and teaching materials are basic. The teachers do a fantastic job with what they've got available to them, but I firmly believe that NIS is a business for the owners who know very little about education.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,

TT

As a teacher with 20 more years of service abroad with a post-graduate degree in the use of computers in schools, I would gladly take a few students with education majors at the elementary school level as part of a staff. Of course, there are exceptions! IMO, younger teachers should be more in touch with recent pedagogical methods of teaching (versus the more traditional pedagogy) and should have more energy. On the other hand, more experienced teachers could show them the tricks of the trade! Ying and yang!

However, the lack of material resources is, however, a bit of a concern, not only for parents and children, but also for teachers, I assure you! How good is a doctor without a scalpel? On the other hand, it depends what materials they have. Fancy books and newer computers are useless if no one can use them properly! Hands-on material and engaging pedagogy are what it is at nowadays, but there are no magic bullets in education as students tend to learn differently.

Too bad the world is run by greedy owners who probably got an excellent education thanks to their parents' greed and the teachers (and resources) the school had at its disposition!!!

[Mapguy]

Prem, I requested the certifications that their foreign teachers held, only to be told that many were not certified, but essentially college graduates (Education majors) with little to no real teaching experience in their home countries.

Bob,

Could you please let us know when you got this info about Prem teachers not being certified? Was it this year or how many years ago?

Thanks very much.

I'm not Bob - don't even have an uncle named Bob, but may have something of interest to share.

Last March I attended an international schools language conference in Bangkok. Got talking to a couple of teachers from Prem and they themselves mentioned that many of the teachers at Prem are there doing their teaching practicum for uni. There are a handful of very experienced and well-qualified teachers, but many of the teachers are young and in their last year of their education degrees. Not that this makes them unfit to teach - it's just not what Prem advertises...

As for NIS - while the location is great and the facilities are nice and shiny new and the teachers are certainly qualified and capable, the resources available to teachers are lacking (to say the least) - there is no professional development offered, the library is pitiful, and teaching materials are basic. The teachers do a fantastic job with what they've got available to them, but I firmly believe that NIS is a business for the owners who know very little about education.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,

TT

As a teacher with 20 more years of service abroad with a post-graduate degree in the use of computers in schools, I would gladly take a few students with education majors at the elementary school level as part of a staff. Of course, there are exceptions! IMO, younger teachers should be more in touch with recent pedagogical methods of teaching (versus the more traditional pedagogy) and should have more energy. On the other hand, more experienced teachers could show them the tricks of the trade! Ying and yang!

However, the lack of material resources is, however, a bit of a concern, not only for parents and children, but also for teachers, I assure you! How good is a doctor without a scalpel? On the other hand, it depends what materials they have. Fancy books and newer computers are useless if no one can use them properly! Hands-on material and engaging pedagogy are what it is at nowadays, but there are no magic bullets in education as students tend to learn differently.

Too bad the world is run by greedy owners who probably got an excellent education thanks to their parents' greed and the teachers (and resources) the school had at its disposition!!!

Some very good points here if, perhaps, a bit cynical in closing!

Appropriate applications of technology take both creativity and training. And, although I've enthusiastically ridden the wave of computers in the school from the beginning, I really believe that there are very effective methods of teaching and learning that certainly don't require computers. But if you've got them and know how to use cyber skills, then "Wow!" that sure does provide some additional learning options!

I do not yet know enough about the use of technology yet in Thai schools. I have heard of both good and bad applications, but I haven't been able to assess the situation generally.

What children learn at home should not be discounted at all. A parent should be interested and involved, and I don't mean just to protect a child from porno sites and other problems. A child can be "home schooled" in several different ways.