British expats in Thailand feeling the misery as the UK pound drops to record low levels.

[hashmodha]

On 08/27/2017 at 5:37 PM, Kwasaki said:

This has been done to death,  l can only write/say as l've said before numerous times if research history & planning was done by retiree's wanted to stay and live in Thailand then it shouldn't be a problem.

Sorry it is impossible to  guess or speculate against the Baht...inflation UK pound and cross currency rates...and pensions NEVER grow in volatile circumstances....I planned 3% increase....but not the 40% downside and yet the land cost was done@ 72 bath exchange rates....building 67......then the rollercoaster start. Thai currency is falsely valued...they are riding high with gold reserves and the Dollar......how long before the bubble bursts?I planned so well...but still tough...can still drink coconut juice every day though!! :-) :-)

[bazza73]

1 hour ago, cyberfarang said:

Thanks for your post.

 

When I signed up and begun to pay into my company`s compulsory pension scheme during the early 1970s when I was 21 year old,  there was nothing mentioned in the contract nor was it explained to me that I would be opting out the State pension scheme. How would I had thought to have asked if I had no knowledge that opting out existed. Not only me but also the thousands employed by the company were also left in the dark. Also, young people in their 20s took very little interest in their pensions because to them retirement age was a million years away, it was never going to happen.  The employers and the pension scheme company used our ignorance to their own advantage. Obviously knowing what I know now, I`d had made other choices if being more clued up at the time, but instead we paid into our company pension scheme in ignorant bliss believing our employer and the pension company had our best interests at heart.

It sounds to me like you Brits have been really shafted by your politicians and companies.

In Australia, if you have no assets or income, you get a full Age Pension. The family home is exempt from the asset test, although there are straws in the wind about changing that.

In a range of assets and deemed income, you get a part pension. The government Age Pension cuts out at a certain threshold. Most self-funded retirees do much better with their investments if they go it alone and don't listen to the investment "experts". Some retirees have lost their life savings through advisers, some of which have been employed by the most prestigious Australian financial institutions.

I guess the only thing you guys can do is try to maximize the return on what savings you have.

[Kwasaki]

6 minutes ago, hashmodha said:

Sorry it is impossible to  guess or speculate against the Baht...inflation UK pound and cross currency rates...and pensions NEVER grow in volatile circumstances....I planned 3% increase....but not the 40% downside and yet the land cost was done@ 72 bath exchange rates....building 67......then the rollercoaster start. Thai currency is falsely valued...they are riding high with gold reserves and the Dollar......how long before the bubble bursts?I planned so well...but still tough...can still drink coconut juice every day though!! :-) :-)

 yeah it's tough on some for sure,  l said before if looked back as l did on currency history although a rough guide it's the only guess you get.

After calculations l was looking at 15 baht so if it ever gets that bad never mine coconuts l'll be brewing Lao Khao.

[topt]

2 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Thanks for your post.

 

When I signed up and begun to pay into my company`s compulsory pension scheme during the early 1970s when I was 21 year old,  there was nothing mentioned in the contract nor was it explained to me that I would be opting out the State pension scheme. How would I had thought to have asked if I had no knowledge that opting out existed. Not only me but also the thousands employed by the company were also left in the dark. Also, young people in their 20s took very little interest in their pensions because to them retirement age was a million years away, it was never going to happen.  The employers and the pension scheme company used our ignorance to their own advantage. Obviously knowing what I know now, I`d had made other choices if being more clued up at the time, but instead we paid into our company pension scheme in ignorant bliss believing our employer and the pension company had our best interests at heart.

Unless you have been very unlucky and the scheme has folded you will be or are being paid something for those contributions? The question would be can you separate the opted out part from your company and your own contributions to see how much that compares to the difference in the state pension you will get relative to the maximum figure?

If the company scheme was a defined benefit/final salary then you have probably done quite well out of it compared to those who may have been in a defined contribution scheme.

 

I was contracted out for many years and my contributions will currently not make up the difference in the state pension from the maximum - but at least I was aware and part of that was due to fund choices over the years.

 

Depending on the size of company/schemes involved in it would be unusual that there was no indications in the subsequent years since the 70's that people were opted out and what it meant - excepting the HM forces scenario.

[sandyf]

22 hours ago, jeab1980 said:

No quite as simple as that the vast majority of people who were contracted out didnt have a clue they were. Only last year did i find out that HM forces were opted out on mass back whenever. As far as we were all concerned we paid full stamp. So as far as im concerned I call it Fraud.

So no " YOU" as you put it ie me did not decide.  It was done under the table without my consent.

Your statement about actually getting more money is quite wrong as figures quoted back then to people who actually did contract out by choice have as usual with the British government been completley wrong.

 

I have to disagree with a large part of what you have said. There is no dispute that at the time information was as common as 9 bob notes and that decisions were made for you, but that was not unique to HM Forces. It wasn't till about 35 years ago that any flexibility whatsoever came into the pension world.

Information regarding service pensions has been on the public domain for many years so if you only found out last year then you must take some responsibility.

I was in the RAF from end of 63 until I was 30 in Aug 77. My state pension includes a component from graduated pensions, the scheme before SERPS which was introduced in 1975. Following the introduction of SERPS, as you say all of HM Forces were contracted out, but you must remember that all personnel that served after 1975 are generally entitled to a service pension. I was awarded a deferred pension when I left in 1977 so the part of my NI contributions from 75 to 77 that did not go to the state pension went into my service pension. So in effect I am receiving at least something back for all NI contributions made throughout my working life, not a great deal but hardly fraudulent.

 

As far as occupational pensions are concerned, it is like many things in life, some have performed better than others. For people that have retired and those about to retire, generally speaking their NI contribution to additional pension was better off being contracted out rather than remaining in the state scheme. From now on it is a bit of a moot point as there is no longer an additional pension contribution to have contracted out.

[jeab1980]

21 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I have to disagree with a large part of what you have said. There is no dispute that at the time information was as common as 9 bob notes and that decisions were made for you, but that was not unique to HM Forces. It wasn't till about 35 years ago that any flexibility whatsoever came into the pension world.

Information regarding service pensions has been on the public domain for many years so if you only found out last year then you must take some responsibility.

I was in the RAF from end of 63 until I was 30 in Aug 77. My state pension includes a component from graduated pensions, the scheme before SERPS which was introduced in 1975. Following the introduction of SERPS, as you say all of HM Forces were contracted out, but you must remember that all personnel that served after 1975 are generally entitled to a service pension. I was awarded a deferred pension when I left in 1977 so the part of my NI contributions from 75 to 77 that did not go to the state pension went into my service pension. So in effect I am receiving at least something back for all NI contributions made throughout my working life, not a great deal but hardly fraudulent.

 

As far as occupational pensions are concerned, it is like many things in life, some have performed better than others. For people that have retired and those about to retire, generally speaking their NI contribution to additional pension was better off being contracted out rather than remaining in the state scheme. From now on it is a bit of a moot point as there is no longer an additional pension contribution to have contracted out.

Suggest you read up about being contracted out without your knowledge. As for people now being better off i would not know as for myself when i reach the age i will be worse off. I was as far as i an concerned contracted out without my knowledge or my permision it was not as common knowledge as you state at all. Yes in 1975 pensions were changed and entitlement became a right after less than 22 yrs served. Again something i totally disagree with all forces personal regardless of what year the joined or left shouls be entitled to a forces pension.

But on contracted out i will be worse of so therefore without my knowledge. I was and have been defrauded by consecutive goverment even though they knew of the short fall.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, Craig krup said:

 

. On Friday I was talking to a clever bloke who has a physics degree,.....................................  How can people be so bloody stupid?

Which is why whenever anyone proclaims that people with degrees are more clever than those without, I have a chuckle.

The move to university for all shows just how stupid politicians are, and more so as many of them have law degrees and no commonsense.

[scubascuba3]

Yes the UK state pension is pretty poor, but i guess that's part result of paying very high level of benefits to all and sundry.

I think Germany and Scandinavian countries have that to look forward to

[thaibeachlovers]

26 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Suggest you read up about being contracted out without your knowledge. As for people now being better off i would not know as for myself when i reach the age i will be worse off. I was as far as i an concerned contracted out without my knowledge or my permision it was not as common knowledge as you state at all. Yes in 1975 pensions were changed and entitlement became a right after less than 22 yrs served. Again something i totally disagree with all forces personal regardless of what year the joined or left shouls be entitled to a forces pension.

But on contracted out i will be worse of so therefore without my knowledge. I was and have been defrauded by consecutive goverment even though they knew of the short fall.

You should know by now that the only time politicians care about the forces is when they need them to go and oppress some other country.

Hasn't been a "good" war since Korea, IMO.

 

Before anyone jumps up and down, I served. Got out when I became tired of being treated like c***.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Yes the UK state pension is pretty poor, but i guess that's part result of paying very high level of benefits to all and sundry.

I think Germany and Scandinavian countries have that to look forward to

Norway provides the example of what Britain could have been if the politicians hadn't frittered away North Sea oil profits. British politicians have not served Britain well, but few countries have good politicians.

No wonder politicians are less popular than second hand car dealers.

[jeab1980]

27 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You should know by now that the only time politicians care about the forces is when they need them to go and oppress some other country.

Hasn't been a "good" war since Korea, IMO.

 

Before anyone jumps up and down, I served. Got out when I became tired of being treated like c***.

Thats your choice and your opinion. Thanks for sharing 

[jeab1980]

56 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Which is why whenever anyone proclaims that people with degrees are more clever than those without, I have a chuckle.

The move to university for all shows just how stupid politicians are, and more so as many of them have law degrees and no commonsense.

My old mans reason for leaving the police force. To many youngsters with degrees joining fast track. They can tell you the square root of an orange but cant peel the bloody thing. 

Edited September 3, 2017 by jeab1980

[SheungWan]

8 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

My old mans reason for leaving the police force. To many youngsters with degrees joining fast track. They can tell you the squere root of an orange but cant peel the bloody thing. 

Yes. Need more police officers who can peel oranges.

[aslimversgwm]

 
But the original decision not to update certain countries was made in the early 1950s and not that many people had heard much about Thailand other than the Bridge on the River Kwai film. Even  returning FEPOWs were almost ignored by the government of the times.

The Real reason is whether or not the UK has a reciprocal pension agreement with that country so, for example it does with the USA and not with Australia or Thailand come to that so if you emigrate to the USA you get the indexed state pension but not if you emigrate to Australia or Thailand! Easy peasy.

Sent from my SM-J710F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[travelingman1959]

Thats your choice and your opinion. Thanks for sharing 

What is a good war mate .in every war its dog eat dog and the name of the game is kill out what moves .at least my mates in the british army told me

Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk

[Elkski]

It's pretty arrogant to assert that you were smart enough to predict  or plan for this baht exchange rate. 

It most likely means you were fortunate to have started with twice what common financial assumptions would have predicted.  

[mstevens]

21 minutes ago, Elkski said:

It's pretty arrogant to assert that you were smart enough to predict  or plan for this baht exchange rate. 

It most likely means you were fortunate to have started with twice what common financial assumptions would have predicted.  

My situation is different to many here in that I am semi-retired and LIVE IN MY OWN COUNTRY and simply travel to Thailand and spend anything from a couple of months to several months each year.

 

I retired earlier than most and the only way I was able to do this with confidence was to plan financially for it.  I have all sorts of backup plans in place and am fortunate that my financial situation is strong and I planned for almost all possibilities.  Critically, I own my own property here in my country which at any time I can come back to.

 

The issue I see in Thailand is that some people retire early.  They have not just 15 or 20 years ahead of them, but potentially 30 or 40.  When you retire so young you need a huge nest egg to ensure that you don't run out of money.  And many of these people burn their bridges at home as they don't have property of their own to return to.  That doesn't strike me as planning, but of taking a huge gamble.

 

The commonalities I see in many farangs in Thailand are retiring young without enough money and without assets / property to be able to return home to if things down work out.  You can blame currency movements all you like but at the end of the day it means you didn't plan for that possibility.

[adammike]

2 hours ago, travelingman1959 said:

What is a good war mate .in every war its dog eat dog and the name of the game is kill out what moves .at least my mates in the british army told me

Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk
 

On my first job as a commis chef they told me " if it moves call it chef if it doesn't put parsley on it"

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, Elkski said:

It's pretty arrogant to assert that you were smart enough to predict  or plan for this baht exchange rate. 

It most likely means you were fortunate to have started with twice what common financial assumptions would have predicted.  

It is a fair question and not one that is so easy to answer because it entails risk and risk does not always pay off at least as far as FX is concerned. The issue for the moment is whether (assuming one has savings) should one continue to hold it all in sterling assuming that it has bottomed OR hedge out?

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Elkski said:

It's pretty arrogant to assert that you were smart enough to predict  or plan for this baht exchange rate. 

It most likely means you were fortunate to have started with twice what common financial assumptions would have predicted.  

I would say it's essential not arrogant at all planning ones retirement especially if you want to retire early in another part of the world. 

[jeab1980]

6 hours ago, travelingman1959 said:

What is a good war mate .in every war its dog eat dog and the name of the game is kill out what moves .at least my mates in the british army told me

Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk
 

War is war kill or be killed you or them. What makes a good war is when your duty is done you go home to your loved ones in one piece.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, jeab1980 said:

 

But on contracted out i will be worse of so therefore without my knowledge.

That is a statement that people want to make arbitrarily. Only those that were contracted out and for some reason have not received an occupational pension can make that statement.

The calculation is so complex that nobody can determine the relative returns in respect of the additional NI contribution in either scheme. Investment returns during the 70's, 80's and early 90's were a good indication that better returns were to be had from contracting out. Unfortunately nothing stays the same and investment returns deteriorated and impacted on occupational pensions.

When I was around 38, which would have been 1985, I along with every other adult in the country received a letter regarding the change in the law allowing voluntary contracting out, which I decided against. There was also a huge media campaign at the time so since that time no one can really claim a lack of information.

It should also be noted that if contracting out was a condition of employment it cannot be claimed it was done without your knowledge. We are all prone to ignoring the finer detail but it does not make it a valid argument.

 

There is little dispute that pensions of the future will be less than predecessors but not for the arguments you want to put forward.

[johnnybgood]

The old, old debate whether to buy or rent !
Well, with this 10 year, purely intentional devaluation of the pound..........
 
IMHO having not to pay rent makes life here more affordable.
Financially that's 15k a month in my pocket (my hotel room rate back in 2002 ). 

The property also gives you privacy where you can do what you want in life - including not spending.
With no rent & no more golf, the pathetic FX rate is easily absorbed into my family finances.
ps
     Sorry to be so subjective.... just passing stuff on about choices. 

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, SheungWan said:

It is a fair question and not one that is so easy to answer because it entails risk and risk does not always pay off at least as far as FX is concerned. The issue for the moment is whether (assuming one has savings) should one continue to hold it all in sterling assuming that it has bottomed OR hedge out?

And what if there is anything in what this guy has to say.

http://www.goldcore.com/us/gold-blog/gold-reset-10000oz-coming-end-year-rickards/

[jeab1980]

22 minutes ago, sandyf said:

That is a statement that people want to make arbitrarily. Only those that were contracted out and for some reason have not received an occupational pension can make that statement.

The calculation is so complex that nobody can determine the relative returns in respect of the additional NI contribution in either scheme. Investment returns during the 70's, 80's and early 90's were a good indication that better returns were to be had from contracting out. Unfortunately nothing stays the same and investment returns deteriorated and impacted on occupational pensions.

When I was around 38, which would have been 1985, I along with every other adult in the country received a letter regarding the change in the law allowing voluntary contracting out, which I decided against. There was also a huge media campaign at the time so since that time no one can really claim a lack of information.

It should also be noted that if contracting out was a condition of employment it cannot be claimed it was done without your knowledge. We are all prone to ignoring the finer detail but it does not make it a valid argument.

 

There is little dispute that pensions of the future will be less than predecessors but not for the arguments you want to put forward.

You are quite wrong i recived no such letter in 1985 i was not in country as thousands of us werent so saw and heard no media coverage. Its a known fact that HM forces were contracted out on mass with the personel having no knowledge of it. Which is the what i have stated all along, what civies new or did i can not comment on. So please refrain from using the words ignorance untill you know the facts.

[sandyf]

19 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

You are quite wrong i recived no such letter in 1985 i was not in country as thousands of us werent so saw and heard no media coverage. Its a known fact that HM forces were contracted out on mass with the personel having no knowledge of it. Which is the what i have stated all along, what civies new or did i can not comment on. So please refrain from using the words ignorance untill you know the facts.

 "Only last year did i find out that HM forces were opted out on mass back whenever."

 

enough said.

 

[Nemises]

If you have no address in UK and have lived abroad for some years you will not be eligible for free health care

Correct

[impulse]

6 hours ago, mstevens said:

The commonalities I see in many farangs in Thailand are retiring young without enough money and without assets / property to be able to return home to if things down work out.  You can blame currency movements all you like but at the end of the day it means you didn't plan for that possibility.

 

Sadly, a lot of folks I've met here seemed to fall in love with the cheap sex right about the same time their boss back home chewed them out once more.  

 

Lots of them don't "retire" as much as "quit working".  Then they get into the family way and are caught between a rock and a hard place.  They can't afford to re-patriate with the family, but they can't afford to stay, either.  

 

My heart goes out to them, largely because I almost did the same to the Caribbean when I was 25 years younger and thought I had enough $$ to make it work.  I didn't have nearly enough, but it was many years later before I realized it.

 

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, johnnybgood said:

The old, old debate whether to buy or rent !
Well, with this 10 year, purely intentional devaluation of the pound..........
 
IMHO having not to pay rent makes life here more affordable.
Financially that's 15k a month in my pocket (my hotel room rate back in 2002 ). 

The property also gives you privacy where you can do what you want in life - including not spending.
With no rent & no more golf, the pathetic FX rate is easily absorbed into my family finances.
ps
     Sorry to be so subjective.... just passing stuff on about choices. 

For sure purchase of a property for one's personal use acts as a hedge against currency volatility. However, property purchase creates a different set of risks. Long term it seems to work. Retrieving the capital can be an issue. ie selling.

Edited September 4, 2017 by SheungWan

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

And what if there is anything in what this guy has to say.

http://www.goldcore.com/us/gold-blog/gold-reset-10000oz-coming-end-year-rickards/

I really, really don't want to set the gold bugs off but gold yields no income. And this thread is about having currencies/cash to pay one's way in Thailand.