Deported from China

[tukkytuktuk]

 

Visa problems and illegal drugs can lead to fines, jail and a humilating black stamp in your passport Visa, drugs and improper behaviors may lead to deportation for foreigners in China.

 

An incident that happened two years ago still haunts Laurel. She got deported from China to her home country Canada.  "It was the most embarrassing thing that ever happened to me, I was so ashamed," the 24-year-old woman said. "I felt like a criminal."

She said it was hard for her to talk about it with anyone. Only her parents and a few very close friends know about it. According to Sawyer Bao, a lawyer who represents foreigners in China, the most common reasons for deportation among foreigners in China, especially in big cities, are entering into China, residing and working in China illegally. "The most common cases are working in China without a valid work visa and overstaying their visa period," Bao said. "Most of them are doing legal jobs, like teaching or catering at a restaurant, but without a work visa."

 

WIll this affect teachers in Thailand? Or policy in Thailand?

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1063281.shtml

 

[Rhys]

In Thailand, certain people are taken care of and rewarded to look the other way in these particular cases...

[ozmeldo]

+3 for the Chinese. PRC is very strict about degrees and should be a minimum standard anywhere for teaching in a public school, maybe not language center but up to them. They also want two years experience in many cases. TEFL which is just rubbish, theyll make one free for right candidate. She's clueless and deserves everything dished out.

 

You MUST go into China on a correct visa and be diligent about the permits and the particulars locally. They are dead serious about it all.

 

 

Thailand can't afford such standards, only the best and worst left here anymore. Prathumwan Demonstration paying 60k+ for a rock solid teacher, pgce or master's not necessarily needed. Other good public schools also realizing what 37k buys these days and upping the ante with supplemental accounts.

 

If I were young and single it would be Vietnam in half a heartbeat. Great interview question: Why Thailand and where do you see your future five years from now on (30?) 40k pm?

Edited September 1, 2017 by ozmeldo

[tukkytuktuk]

Quote

Potential penalties vary from country to country. Typically, somebody who is caught by authorities overstaying their tourist visa and/or working without a work visa or work permit may be subject to modest fines and/or deportation. In some cases they may be banned from re-entering that country for a period of time.   

In a nutshell, if you are caught they will probably put you on a flight back to your home country right away and just get rid of you (they aren't looking to pay money to put you in jail, just get you out of the country).  The language school may have to pay a fine.  For some schools this is just the price of business that they are willing to pay in order to have qualified teachers that their students want.

https://www.internationalteflacademy.com/faq/bid/111797/What-Is-Teaching-English-Abroad-Under-the-Table-Without-a-Work-Visa

[Wilsonandson]

Q: Is teaching in Thailand without a degree legal?
A: Teaching English in Thailand without a 4-year college degree is not legal. It’s illegal.

No if, ands, or buts about it. Unless you are taking part in some sort of volunteer program, teaching at a school is illegal if you don’t have a four-year degree. If you’re being paid to instruct, you’re technically breaking the law.

Now here’s the funny thing: there are hundreds of foreigners who don’t have degrees that are being paid to teach in Thailand.

The demand for foreign English teachers in Thailand is huge. Parents are willing to pay high dollar for special English programs led by foreign English teachers, and many schools are hungry to meet that demand.

With the Thai education system is somewhat of a constant turmoil, visa laws in a constant state of flux, and military coups happening regularly, teacher turnover is relatively high. Don’t get me wrong, Thailand is an awesome country full of beautiful people, but there are also a lot of teachers who just don’t want to stay long.

For these reasons among other factors, there are generally still a lot of schools willing to hire foreign teachers who don’t have a college degree. Generally the Royal Thai Police Force doesn’t target degree-less teachers, but that’s not to say they won’t act on information or their duties.

In my three years in Thailand, I only knew three teachers who were sent home for teaching without the proper documentation, and they were all picked up in the same raid on a school. All of them were deported out of the country.

Overall, your chances of being jailed or deported are relativity low, especially if you’re respectful and keep a low profile. That being said, it can happen, and in no way am I encouraging you to break the law.

I only want you to be aware of the legality of the situation.

http://jaiguytravels.com/2017/08/20/teaching-in-thailand-without-a-degree-the-truth-2017/

[brewsterbudgen]

6 minutes ago, Wilsonandson said:

 

http://jaiguytravels.com/2017/08/20/teaching-in-thailand-without-a-degree-the-truth-2017/

A lot of (provocative) inaccuracies in that!  Where do they get the idea that a "4 year degree" is required?  Plenty of teaching jobs manage to get work permits for teachers who don't have a degree at all.  Maybe not for school teaching, but teaching covers a lot more than just school

[Wilsonandson]

A lot of (provocative) inaccuracies in that!  Where do they get the idea that a "4 year degree" is required?  Plenty of teaching jobs manage to get work permits for teachers who don't have a degree at all.  Maybe not for school teaching, but teaching covers a lot more than just school

Can you get a work permit without a degree?
Updated: 12th November 2015
This is one of those 'ask ten different people and you'll get ten different answers' type questions. There are a lot of those in Thailand trust me.

Although the official line is 'no you can't get a work permit without a degree' there are plenty of examples of agencies managing to get one for their teaching staff and in some cases, teachers at government schools out in the sticks have had no problem at all.

As in most cases, it can depend on contacts and being in the right place at the right time. If you're looking for some hard, fast rule that applies 100% of the time - forget it. This is Thailand.

http://www.ajarn.com/help-and-guides/work-permit-visa-faq/bachelors-degree

[Loaded]

1 hour ago, Wilsonandson said:

 

http://jaiguytravels.com/2017/08/20/teaching-in-thailand-without-a-degree-the-truth-2017/

 

The guy you quoted has little understanding of the differences between formal and non-formal schools. The TCT is strict about degree requirements but they have no authority over non-formal (category 15/2 eg language) schools.

 

In his '3 years' in Thailand as an employee, he would have learned very little about employing foreigners but he's being quoted as an authority - lol.

Edited September 2, 2017 by Loaded

[brewsterbudgen]

7 minutes ago, Loaded said:

The guy you quoted has little understanding of the differences between formal and non-formal schools. The TCT is strict about degree requirements but they have no authority over non-formal (category 15/2 eg language) schools.

 

In his '3 years' in Thailand as an employee, he would have learned very little about employing foreigners but he's being quoted as an authority - lol.

"Know-it-all" bloggers should be treated with caution!

[ozmeldo]

It's very difficult for individuals to obtain provisional licence and wp in Thailand without a degree. I knew of a 4-5 teachers that were Klingons but schools gave them notice they could not renew for following year and were done. Two of them was a decent teachers as well.

 

It might be possible to be permitted as a vocational teacher, such as in tourism industry, language school or even public vocational schools (?) but only the best corporations will bother. This is a place where a few thousand baht matter and employers go Scott free while foreigners are jailed and deported. Even above laziness and incompetence, its financially rewarding to screw you.

 

Something else for gamblers here to contemplate, all the visas runs and potential border issues can't be worth what they pay you in some crappy bkk language school or upcountry public. 

 

In any case, if you don't have your wp in hand in Thailand in 90 days, I would bolt. Ask for copies of your paperwork as they sort it, like the licence. If you're not asked to sign anything by day 45 you may never be getting legal. Make plans!

 

As to the original story, I have friends in China and they go thru huge hassle and expense to stay legal.

 

In the end we are all responsible for our visas and wp. To go abroad and not be acutely aware of how critical this is to ones life and livelihood is just idiocy. I honestly feel bad for anyone jailed for a visa technicality (not dope) but this is the nature of many people these days.

 

I think the Internet has only made the situation worse. All the - get a TEFL become a teacher! - travel the world, teach in paradise! sorts of ads. Some of the big, credible names in certifications are guilty of thus as well.

 

Clueless, or just giving it a go. It makes one wonder what opportunities such individuals have in their home countries.

 

Edited September 3, 2017 by ozmeldo

[ozmeldo]

http://jaiguytravels.com/2017/08/20/teaching-in-thailand-without-a-degree-the-truth-2017/

 

This guy is also incorrect stating you can teach a maximum of three years. Even changing schools every year until your last waiver, five years is possible (4).

 

It is possible to drag provisional licences out six and even more years, eight years (3-4) - to say nothing of the possibility your first school or two never bothered to wp you and you never woke up to that fact.

 

Two schools, four years is quite possible (2). Even three schools, six years these days very possible (3).

Edited September 3, 2017 by ozmeldo