4MyEgo

I would suggest when the article is talking about pensions below, inverted commas, they are not talking about Age Pensions, however, they can tax Age Pensions if they decide to under Article 18 of the DTA for Aussies, but can't see this happening personally as they could have done this from 1989 when the DTA was agreed upon, so why bother now ? I believe this is more so aimed at the "Wealthy Pensioners" drawing down from sourced funds like superannuation schemes and other investment vehicle's that will be taxed in Thailand, and those individuals being taxed here in Thailand can apply for credits back in their country, where the funds came from. Makes sense to me as Age Pensions do not get taxed in Australia if they are a resident of Thailand, therefore there would be no credits applicable for Age Pensioners. Copy and pasted from the article below. "Pensions, while taxed in Thailand, may find some relief through double taxation agreements with the home country". "Wealthy Pensioners": Minimum age: 50 years old. Minimum annual pension or passive income: US$80,000. Alternative option: If your income falls between US$40,000 and US$80,000, you can compensate with a minimum investment of US$250,000 in Thai government bonds, foreign direct investment, or Thai property.

That is a very valid point, I NEVER travel without it, however I do know that some fine prints don't cover motor scooters or the ones that do, make sure they don't have a bigger engine capacity of a 125cc, and you must have a valid international Riders Permit, or Riders License in the country you are riding in, and of course, wearing of a helmet. From what I have read, he wasn't wearing one, but she was. I might be mistaken, but this is a merry go round, same stories, different day and to be perfectly honest, if the guy didn't fit the above criteria, it's no different to me than being reckless and then burdening your family and others with your crap, suffice to say, I have no sympathy for him, and that little kid in the photo, well life just end up being that little bit tougher now, because his dad didn't grow up.

If you can afford salary sacrificing, then all and good, you save on the tax you would have otherwise paid if you didn't salary sacrifice, so you would want to work out how much tax you would have saved over the period you are looking to salary sacrifice. I don't imagine it would be that much in the short term, plus you have to ask yourself, how much will your Super grow during that period as well (crystal ball) required. Yes, If you have over the asset threshold you will get sweet FA, so a million $ is over the threshold amount. Discussed above. Taxing your Super at 60 is tax free, you can spend it, up to you, as long as you can say where you spent it, shouldn't be a problem, as long as you don't have anymore, that said, if your Super is say $600k, I would suggest that you don't spend it, but live off of it on a budget and make sure you are just under the asset threshold, if applying for the Age Pension, that way you will be entitled to the Age Pension. LoL, tell him that I said, good luck with that one. If you do retire at 60 with $600k, you won't need as much as $40,000 a year to live on in Thailand, to then go back at 67 to claim the Age Pension, and you won't have too much in Super, because you will make sure that your Super is under the threshold amount, (see link below). The link regarding the asset thresholds is simple, you just have to make sure that you plan well ahead, and be careful how you remit money here to Thailand because, if I am not mistaken, your Super will be taxable here, because it wasn't taxed in Australia, I say that because your residency status will change to a resident of Thailand after 180 days here. Whether Thailand enforces the residency rule here on expats is something to keep an eye on. Also remember, if you retire at 60 and live here till your 67, you will have to do the 2 years when you return to Oz to claim the Age Pension. A lot to consider, e.g. rent, cost of living for 2 years, and being away from Thailand, GF/BF miss you so muk, love you long time etc etc. I retired at 55, now 63, no regrets, as for the Age Pension, my feasibility research tells me that it would take me 4 years to recoup the outlay, if I was to return for the 2 years to claim the Age Pension, so I would be 71 before I actually got back what I spent in those 2 years in Australia to claim the Age Pension, suffice to say it's a dead duck for me, exactly how the Oz government planned it to be, but most don't seem to do the math, that or they have accommodation and live on the very cheap, which would make it a possible break even scenario for them, which would then make it worth it for them. https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/assets-test-for-age-pension?context=22526 EDIT: Once you do receive the Age Pension and do your 2 years, when you return here, you will not pay tax on the Age Pension here under the DTA, DO NOT pay any attention to someone who says otherwise, or you be, as you say, "up sh-t creek, you can look it up for yourself under Article 18 which has been thrashed about on the Australian Age Pension thread, but that individual still doesn't get it and will provide you with misleading information. If you don't understand Article 18, have someone explain it to you who does, and don't even go near Article 19, as that person believes it is part of Article 19, which is only for Government Employee Pensions, not Age Pensions and annuities which were Article 18 covers. https://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/dfat/treaties/1989/36.html

I feel you, same, same here. Agree, however the trough is where they all eat out from, and if you know pigs, just try and take away their meals and you could lose a hand quite easily, that or end up as their meal. IMO i believe they all are, it's part and parcel of the system, this is Thailand remember, even though they might look clean, any opportunity they have, they will look for that extra baht, even happens with street vendors, e.g. standing in line to buy some fruit, farang (tourist) in front of me, I will have some pineapple, melon and watermelon, 300 baht, ok, thanks, me next, speaking in Thai, pineapple, melon and watermelon 120 baht. I don't know of any, and agree with what you are saying as I use and have always used the money in the bank route, one will have to address it when and if the time comes, and I decide to use that route, via expats that have used the same agent for years.

Might be time to see an agent, come next retirement extension ? I say that because, immigration won't allow their piece of cake to be taken away from them, all the way to the top IMO. Talking about all of those expats that don't have the funds to put in the bank and use agents for a fee which is also split with you know who. As mentioned, more than one way to skin a fat cat oi.

I'd really like to know how this is going to effect expats that use agents because they don't have the funds to remit to Thailand, if the RD wants them to have a tax file number. I hazzard a guess that immigration officers around the country would come up with some genius idea, like only target those with funds in their accounts when applying for extensions, e.g. hey Mr Money Bags, you need a TFN to declare where the money you remitted came from, so the RD can look at possibly taxing you. As for those who use agents, they would get a free pass for the usual brown envelope via the agents. Hmmm, if this does occur, I thinks me will see an agent.

I somehow can't see that happening, and the reason I say that is, because think how many expats here use an agent because they don't have the funds to put in the bank. The above said, that would rattle a lot of people's extra cash flow, agent's, immigration officers and the like all the way to the top. They might do that to those on Marriage extensions and Retirement extensions that show money in their accounts. Now if they go down that avenue, I might just get me an agent as the interest you get from banks here is pitiful, and you pay 17% tax on that interest, so I am told. If I left that money in the bank back home, even after paying 10% withholding tax, the interest would be more than enough to cover the agents costs + some left for me. There's more than one way to skin a fat cat, just my opinion.

I was there last year for a week, Patong that is, been going there with the family for years, but since the last trip, I reckon it's been a good 3 years. We prefer driving around further south at other destinations during our road trips, like Hua Hin, Krabi, etc, cleaner and less touristy compared to Patong. If your like me, you stay just out of Patong, e.g. within a 10 minute walk of Bangla Road, and travel to places like Nai Harn Beach, Kata Noi Beach and even Karon Beach for the day. There isn't really that much to do there, hence the reason we mostly enjoy the comforts of the hotel and it's facilities, after all it's a holiday for relaxing isn't it. But with the amount of money Patong brings in, they could do with wider pedestrian sidewalks and rainwater spill off into the gutters, because one downpour and it's game over, instant flooding. Less money lining their pockets, more into infrastructure and less development.

Fair call, it's merely differences of opinions. Personally I would change the word "you" with "could" be taxed by Thai authorities on income. Lets not forget the DTA has been in force since 1989, yet here we are in 2024, some 35 years on, and I haven't heard of one Australian Age Pensioner stating that the Thai authorities tax his Age Pension. Not saying that they are not within their rights. All countries have codes and regulations, yet seldom enforce them. Totally agree with you on that.

Fortunately they back date it when approved, that said, I have been told, but cannot confirm, that you can apply 13 weeks prior to pension age. If the above is correct, one would only be 3 weeks out if they applied 13 weeks beforehand.

Your body needs you to keep moving it, remember as we age, we lose muscle. Lighter weights, more reps keeps your muscle from drooping. Walk an hour a day to get the blood pumping, you'll feel better for it. Eat the right foods, less sugar, alcohol consumption. I am in my early 60's and do the above, and I get praised for my looks everywhere I go, most people say I am 50. Friends the same age look weathered, smoke, drink, don't exercise and eat crap. It all boils down to how you want to feel and how you want to look.

Only 1 here.

@LosLobo @scorecard @Olmate @rhodie @norbra @Fat is a type of crazy I believe I have provided enough information as others have to accept that the Age Pension is not taxable by Australia if residing in Thailand as a resident, that said, under the DTA, the Age Pension is taxable in Thailand, "if they so want to enforce it", however, as they haven't done so since 1989 when the DTA came into effect, I can't see them taxing Age Pensioners in Thailand, they are after the bigger fish IMO. The above said, I will no longer respond to HK, yes, I know I said I wouldn't before, but whenever he tried to get up, I had to give him another, then another, then another, suffice to say, I am of the opinion that he is not well, mentally, so best I give up on him saying he was WRONG, we all know he is, and dare I say it, I will now let him sit in his sunken yellow submarine, because he has certainly taken a few missiles in my last posts. Apologies for all the posts, but at the end of the day, we did get the information that we sought and are correct on it, team work - 1

No apology required. Perhaps of some interest. https://community.ato.gov.au/s/question/a0JRF000000iq692AA/p00272926

Thank you for your confirmation on the above. I am not an expert in this or any matter when it comes to this stuff, that said, my thoughts would be to just keep enjoying life in Thailand, until you receive a letter from the Thai Revenue Department, if ever. I say that because, they know Age Pensioners are small fry and just get by on their Age Pensions, month by month and also have the exchange rates to contend with. On the other hand, if a "wealthy pensioner", not your typical Age Pensioner on 50,000 odd baht a month is bringing in big bucks, then I believe they will have to obtain a TFN and lodge a return, if tax hasn't been taken out in the country they sourced their funds from. I note the key word being "wealthy", source Google, that said, I am of the opinion that they know the 50,000 baht goes straight into their economy, so why p-ss off Age Pensioners, who may return to their country where they get the pension from, it would be a loss/loss situation, but a realistic one IMO. They are after the big fish, but have scared a lot of the little ones. A wealthy pensioner residing in Thailand for at least 180 days is subject to a tax rate under the new tax law. Pensions brought from their country of origin may not be subject to the law if the person can prove that they have been taxed prior to being transferred to Thailand.

Careful now, as all it takes is one link to sink your yellow submarine. https://community.ato.gov.au/s/question/a0JRF000000iq692AA/p00272926

Incoming missile.......prepare for impact......LoL https://community.ato.gov.au/s/question/a0JRF000000iq692AA/p00272926

How's that ? A movie just came to mind, was it Dumber getting Dumber or Dumber & Dumber, same, same. If I elect to be a tax resident of Australia by meeting the criteria, then I have elected to be a tax resident of Australia, and lodge a tax return annually, how simple was that....LoL You keep saying that, but an Age Pensioner living in Thailand only pays tax in Thailand, if Thailand wishes to tax the pension, then it will be deemed and income. It really boils down to how the Thai Government wants to approach it, that said, they haven't taxed Age Pensioners from Australia as far as I know, so why would they now. Don't bother replying to that, just speaking out aloud. Um, excuse me, aren't you the one saying you are a tax resident of Australia, yet here you are living in the LOS....LoL, or are you trolling ? Yet you have provided nothing to show that I am wrong, yet you keep deflecting, talking about changes coming, or are you know talking about the age pension etc etc, but we all know your in a corner and are WRONG. Time for my coffee break, I earned this little victory......

You obviously are quoting my words from an article or articles, not the legislation, another deflection from your part. I have done that in the above post reply. You just put your foot in it M8, of course " I have been talking about the Age Pension" this is after all what this thread is all about, trying to deflect again ? Australian Aged Pension By VOICEOVER January 11, 2008 in Australia & Oceania Topics and Events With regard to commenting on the video you posted, I DO NOT take what anyone says on a video or a website as Gospel, I quote legislation, as stated and as I have done. Yes, like it or not, legislation, is law and precedents can be made from challenging laws, if the courts/tribunals rule in favor of the challenging party. To date I am not aware of anyone having challenged the DTA, in particular, Article 18 is intact to this day. That is fact or my evidence, what have you provided, except, "what is your perspective on this or that, have you seen the video, oh lets not forget Blake and others. Know when to surrender and stop wasting our time, there is more than enough evidence to back up what I have stated, i.e. that the Age Pension under Article 18 is only taxable in the state of which that individual is resident, period ! No credits, no if, no buts, but you are the exception of course....LoL, I was going to add, but I won't because you would pull the "don't make it personal" card on me, so I have spared myself.

Seriously, we will continue to go around the merry go round until you get it, i.e. you can interpret it yourself, however I will give you a BIG clue, the key word that relates to Article 19 is: 1. Remuneration (other than a pension) so if 1. in Article 19 doesn't apply to you, neither do the other Sections and Subsections in Article 19. Oh yes you can. I will say it again, "forget about Article 19" because there is no other, (from Section 1. Article 19: 1. Remuneration (other than a pension) and as Article 18 relates to Pensions and annuities only, as mentioned 1,000 times, Article 19 doesn't apply to Article 18 if there is no 1. Remuneration (other than a pension) Highlighting Section 2 was to spell it out further for you, albeit it that it does go onto say that if the recipient is a resident of, and a citizen or a national of, that other state. What they are talking about is any individual government employee who gets paid a Government Pension for their services to the government, while in their employ, after discharge, etc etc etc, NOTHING TO DO WITH AGE PENSIONS, therefore Article 18 relates to Age Pensions, but looks like that didn't work, so have another read, might take you 4-5 reads to sink in.....LoL 2. Any pension paid to an individual in respect of services rendered in the discharge of governmental functions to one of the Contracting States or a political subdivision of that State or a local authority of that State shall be taxable only in that State. Such pension shall, however, be taxable only in the other Contracting State if the recipient is a resident of, and a citizen or national of, that other State. Subsection (a) & (b) of Section 1 in Article 19 don't apply because of what, wait for it........, there is....., no what ? 1. Remuneration (other than a pension)

Thanks for that, but I wouldn't know how to address that one, all I know is in Australia, you are either a tax resident of Australia or a tax resident of Thailand, and if you are a tax resident of Thailand by choice, you would be deemed a Non Resident by Australia and you will pay tax on the income you earn with no threshold applicable, e.g. $32.5c in every $ earned as a non resident. It gets confusing, but if you are deemed a resident by Thailand because you stay in Thailand for 180 days, or more, you can still be a resident of Australia for tax purposes, so in part you are technically correct I suppose. Australians are taxable on their worldwide income, but can elect to remain residents of Australia for tax purposes, subject to fulfilling certain criteria's. Now with Thailand having a DTA with Australia, it allows Thailand to tax Australians for example as residents living in Thailand for more that 180 days, as they would be deemed by the Thai government as "a resident" of Thailand for tax purposes, e.g. it's automatic, yes, anyone living in Thailand for 180 days, is deemed a resident of Thailand for tax purposes, and if an Australian has elected to remain an Australian Resident for tax purposes with Australia, they will receive a credit on the tax amount that they have been taxed on in Thailand. The above has nothing to do with the Age Pension, that is what I and others have been trying to get through a particular members head. Another way to look at it for example, is that I choose to remain a resident of Australia for tax purposes, i.e. I have a home back in Oz, a car, family, etc etc and will return one day, maybe in 1 year, maybe in 10 years. I choose to teach English in Thailand as I want a change as it all became a bit to boring for me back in Oz, and my family have been breaking my balls to get married etc etc, that, and I want to travel around Thailand and maybe some neighboring countries during my time overseas. So I stay in Thailand for over 180 days a year, therefore I am a tax resident of Thailand and pay tax in Thailand, and at the same time, I am a tax resident back in Australia for tax purposes, as that is what I have elected to be, so when I lodge my tax return, I let them know that Thailand has already (for example) taxed me on my wages, and the Australia Taxation Office will credit me that tax taken by the Thai government, and make the necessary tax adjustments against the tax I have to pay to Australia, and will also provide me with a tax threshold of $18,200 before they make the adjustments. The above said, if I elected to be a non resident, e.g. no family, house, car in Oz, breaking free, as I have done, then I am a non resident for tax purposes and will pay $32.5c in the $ if I make an income, no threshold, no credits. Nothing to do with the "Age Pension". With Australia, it's one or the other, you can't be resident in two countries as far as I know, that said they would allow Thailand to deem you as a resident for tax purposes though through no fault of your own because you chose to be here for more than 180 days and will therefore sort it when they get their slice of your pie, that is how I interpret it, but I could be wrong, seldom I should say......LoL.

Where is the word generally in the legislation ? Article 18 Pensions and annuities 1. Subject to the provisions of Article 19, pensions and annuities paid to a resident of one of the Contracting States shall be taxable only in that State. ? Oh come on m8, this has nothing to do with the Age Pension, you are totally confused and have no idea what you are talking about, Article 18 is as straight forward as it gets on the "Age Pension", yet you go on about credits, which doesn't apply to the "Age Pension", only on other sourced incomes, we ALL know that, except you. Give it a break seriously.......

Because you won't accept what Article 18 of the Double Taxation Agreement states and that you will have to concede that you were wrong. I have highlighted it in simple terms because you just don't seem to get it, it's like telling someone that there is a difference with there, their and they're, or where, were and wear, they all sound the same, but don't know how to read them and apply them to the correct sentence. All you have to do is accept is Section 1. highlighted in bold under Article 18, Heading: Pensions and annuities, Article 18 Pensions and annuities 1. Subject to the provisions of Article 19, pensions and annuities paid to a resident of one of the Contracting States shall be taxable only in that State. 2. The term "annuity" means a stated sum payable periodically at stated times during life or during a specified or ascertainable period of time under an obligation to make the payments in return for adequate and full consideration in money or money's worth. Article 19 Government service 1. Remuneration (other than a pension) paid by one of the Contracting States or a political subdivision of that State or a local authority of that State to any individual in respect of services rendered in the discharge of governmental functions shall be taxable only in that State. However, such remuneration shall be taxable only in the other Contracting State if the services are rendered in that other State and the recipient is a resident of that other State who: (a) is a citizen or national of that other State; or (b) did not become a resident of that other State solely for the purpose of performing the services. 2. Any pension paid to an individual in respect of services rendered in the discharge of governmental functions to one of the Contracting States or a political subdivision of that State or a local authority of that State shall be taxable only in that State. Such pension shall, however, be taxable only in the other Contracting State if the recipient is a resident of, and a citizen or national of, that other State. 3. The provisions of paragraphs 1 and 2 shall not apply to remuneration or a pension in respect of services rendered in connection with any trade or business carried on by one of the Contracting States or a political subdivision of one of the States or a local authority of one of the States. In such a case, the provisions of Article 15, 16 or 18, as the case may be shall apply.

I said I wasn't going to reply, BUT, you still don't get it, Article 19 relates to Government Pensions, i.e. people who worked for the government, not Age Pensioners, hence the reason I told you to forget about Article 19. But hey, you believe what you want to believe, they are both law and they both apply to each respective pension, in layman's terms, once again, Article 18 for Age Pensions, taxable only in Thailand, Article 19 for Government Pensions, i.e. those that worked for the Government and received a Government Pension, but you know all this don't you, and still can't admit that your WRONG. The above said, it's ok, we ALL know you are, except for you, must be lonely at the top of your heap. You don't say, we are all waiting for you to concede, all I can say is I'm glad your not a politician, because even those ba-stards know when to concede.

One of the main reasons I won't eat out, i.e. unless it's a smoke free environment.