TroubleandGrumpy

I will now quote that same rule back at you. You have demanded that I provide something that is both an invasion of my privacy and is in violation of a law (confidentiality). However, I am not going to pursue this matter - and I do not want your or my posts removed. What I have done in providing edited screenshots of 2 of the emails that I received, has been done to prove to you and others that you are wrong in making your assumption that I made up those emails. Likewise, going forward, it is my intention on this public forum to discuss/debate anything that you or anyone else posts regarding Thai income taxes on Expats, that IMO is based on false or inaccurate assumptions.

You sure know a lot about the forum rules - please allow me to rhetort. I am not referring to a published website source - I am referring to an email I was provided. How do I post a link to a personal email???? But I am reluctant to 'debate' this matter any further or I am sure you will report me and get me suspended again. You seem to think you are still a Mod and that you 'own' this thread and can control people that disagree with anything you state as fact. Therefore, in order to shut down people like yourself and noting another derogatory posts was removed - I offer this edited screenshot. I will not breach the terms and conditions of the email by publishing anything more than this. I note that you and others do not demand I prove the quotes given for lodging a tax return - but here is one just for you.

Very true - again and again this reality of the Thai legal system is there to be seen. The Thai legal system is there to protect the Thais first and foremost and only - it is not about the application of fair and equal legal rights to Tourists/Foreigners. In a few ways Thailand is first world, but in the legal system it is third world. I recall the case where a Provincial Judge ruled that it was not breaching the Equal Rights Provision of the Thai Constitution regarding charging Foreigners extra for the same services - because they are wealthy and it is good for Thailand - that was what he said in his official Judgement. I recall a well known Expat (Tim Newton of the Thiager fame and now Youtuber) who stated that in all the years he has been in Thailand not one Expat/Foreigner has ever won a legal case against a Thai person or company in a Thai Court - not one.

And a straight answer was provided straight back 🙂

And yes - it was a USA/Thai legal firm, incorporated in USA and with an operating office in Thailand.

Clearly your knowledge of the legal/taxation systems are very short in substance and you have no idea how things are done in Thailand's legal system. It took me less than a minute to find this perfectly clear legal advice about disclaimers and caveats in email advice. May I suggest that you read up on legal and taxation matters a lot more so that you are made more aware. For you and and other ignorant person (ignorant of legal realities) I offer the following website as quick summary of why emails have disclaimers and caveats. Email Confidentiality Disclaimers: Annoying But Are They Legally Binding? (cenkuslaw.com) However, before anyone thinks using their hillbilly understanding that their statements that the email disclaimers may not be technically enforceable, I will remind you that the legal system in Thailand is not the same as that in Kansas (where people have rights). In Thailand it is very much a cowboy system - where people get arrested and put in jail for negative social media statements etc etc etc. I am certainly not going to risk getting into the bad books of the company that sent the email with a clear disclaimer of not publishing it. How about me demanding the names and titles of any persons in TRD that gave you the advice and information that you keep quoting??

The Dems should have let Trump have his second term, because IMO they are going to be decimated across the table in November. GOP will win POTUS, House and Senate in a landslide not seen since Reagan - maybe even more. Following that they will embark on a 'campaign of change' hitherto unseen in USA politics. IMO the Dems power-brokers gave Biden the nod in 2019 as a 'reward' for a life's service to their cause - he was not supposed to win. Putting aside the result, because Biden has been a disaster and Trump has had 4 years to prepare, things are going to be very bad for the Dems. But in politics 24 hours can be a long time and who knows what will happen over the next 4 months. But as things look now, the Dems are goneski.

Breaking News (satire) - The New York DA has issued a request for a Grand Jury to decide if Trump can be Indicted for "Inciting an Assassination Attempt on a past President" According to papers leaked to the WaPo, by being a fascist and racist and gun supporter the Bad Orange Bad Man "is clearly at fault for someone attempting to murder him with a rifle" The NY DA also stated "If Trump were not literally Hitler, no one would have tried to kill him in the first place. It's time we in the legal system go after Hitler, and not the people trying to murder Hitler." The WaPo advised that at publishing time, the NY DA was also proceeding with charges against Trump for causing the Secret Service to shoot the brave would-be assassin illegally. "He brought all this on himself, and we will ensure justice is done."

He has been an embarrassment since 'elected'.

You have clearly never received legal advice before - you are not allowed to publish 'substantial information' contained in that advice and the organisation that gave it to you - without their permission. Look it up ret.

I am more than happy to see this 'debate' continue in its current direction and form. Plus I would point out that this thread Parts 1 and 2 was done to consolidate all other existing discussions on separate threads into the one thread. I would prefer not to have another bunch of threads appear whenever a new issue is raised- as they inevitably will be, as this thing goes forward. I know where to go to for the latest information and discussions on Thailand taxing Expats - and it is to this thread.

Sorry - that was formal advice provided to myself on the basis that it was not 'published'. The usual legal caveats as comes with any legal advice given to anyone else - you are not allowed to publish that advice. However they are well known and have been referred to several times in this and other related threads.

Exactly, and IMO they are the experts in what they want us to do. But just to be clear, IMO they are not referring to an Expat who earns money either in Thailand or through doing anything in Thailand, they are referring to Expats that are retired/married and bring their previously taxed money to Thailand (just like all Tourists do). When/If TRD provides their updated advice later this year as to how any change affects retired/married Expats, and/or any subsequent statements are made by TRD, The Finance Ministers, The PM or Cabinet, then and only then will we all know for certain what is expected of us retired/married Expats (not earning money in/from Thailand. Until/unless that happens, I am taking the advice as provided to Expats in Regional TRD Offices and to myself by a Thai Accredited Tax Company (based upon my current financial situation), I will not be lodging a tax return in 2025 for 2024.

The 'education' system in Thailand is their biggest problem - it has been holding them back for decades and it is now biting them big time on their butts as they struggle to cope with a changed world post-Covid. The Thai workforce is not efficient, flexible or educated - they dont know how to learn new things. Anyone from overseas opening a large business here nowadays is either ignorant, linked to certain Thainese families, corrupt or extremely brave. As that Thai man said (the one from BOI who never spoke again) Thailand needs to offer much more than beaches and girls and rip-off Visas to attract business investments - and certainly not income tax nightmares.

More lunacy ideas from this land of lunatics - talk about the animals running the farm - did not George write a book about that and warn us all it would lead to economic and social disaster.

10-15 years of 'scoping studies' done by highly overpaid consultants related to those in the planning Offices. This will never get off the ground - more chance of a F1 track - maybe a land-bridge to avoid Singapore - or a fast train to Beijing by 2030 - and on and on it goes.

What a joke - if the Govt subsidised parent's buying one then OK, but as per normal practice here, there are kickbacks to be had and a premium price to be paid for Government procurement scams. Remember those fans bought by a school - 40 odd of them were installed outside next to each other 🙂

Total BS - if a kid does not fight back, they will be teased relentlessly by some bullies. Most school mass shooters (and Trump's shooter) were teased very badly at school and were mentally damaged by it. All my kids were taught from a very young age, that you never hit anyone at school unless they hit you first, and this is how to throw a punch (hitting Dad's bag). I told them all that if anyone does hit you, then you hit them with everything you have and dont stop until they are down - and then say nothing to the teachers, other than they hit me first. Youngest daughter was a friend of someone that was being bullied - she defended her and told the bully to go away. The bully slapped her face and the daughter did as taught. The call to attend school sounded like she had killed the kid - but she fell and hit her head when punched and had some blood from a cut. The VP immediately starting yelling at me when I arrived and I immediately told her to back away and let me talk to my daughter alone - now. She reluctantly did so, and after listening to what happened I told the daughter that she was was all good but she needed to stay quiet while I then spoke to the VP and sorted it all out. Done - no suspension and no apology. My daughter and her friends were never touched again. Turning the other cheek is BS and sometimes results in mentally damaged children who become mentally damaged adults.

Not saying that guy is right or wrong - but IMO he is wrong. The Revenue Department has adjusted the criteria for collecting taxes from income sources outside Thailand (Part 2) | Publications | Knowledge | Nishimura & Asahi Furthermore, for income that is exempt from tax in Thailand according to a Double Tax Treaty (“DTA”) - or if the DTA specifies the other contracting states (foreign countries) that are designated as the tax collectors and Thailand has no authority to collect tax according to the DTA - if such income is brought into Thailand in the case mentioned above, the Revenue Department has not yet issued clear criteria or guidelines to determine whether or not such income is subject to tax according to Section 41, paragraph two of the Revenue Code. If tax exemptions are not applicable, the Revenue Department will need to determine measures or methods to eliminate the double taxes and how to use foreign tax credits if such income is brought into Thailand in a different tax year from the year in which the income was received. The ambiguity in this law contradicts the principles of good tax collection and is a crucial issue which the Revenue Department must expedite in setting clear guidelines; otherwise, the collection of such taxes could become an obstacle to the development and enhancement of Thailand's tourism sector, which is a significant revenue source. If the Revenue Department pursues taxation on foreign-sourced income, it may bring a small amount of revenue inflow into the system. However, it could impact the tourism sector and employment in the tourism industry, including elderly care services and other sectors that heavily rely on income from foreign tourists who plan to be long-term residents in Thailand. Some tourist operators and those reliant upon the tourism sector may decide not to continue their businesses if the criteria for collecting such taxes are unclear and unfair. Navigating Foreign Pension Income Tax for Expatriates in Thailand - Pattaya Mail Role of Double Taxation Agreements (DTAs) Thailand’s network of Double Taxation Agreements (DTAs) plays a crucial role in the implementation of these regulations. These agreements, designed to prevent the same income from being taxed by two countries, ensure that pensions are taxed only in the country of origin. Under the new rules, DTAs will continue to protect expatriates by preventing Thailand from taxing pension incomes that have already been taxed abroad or are set to be taxed by retirees’ home countries. However, should there be any discrepancy in tax rates, additional taxes may still be collected in Thailand, although such measures are not yet officially declared and enforced. What this shows to me is that this whole can of worms and every point of concern in it, is far from certain and there is as yet no final decision and may never be until a precedent occurs. Anyone stating 'definites' based upon Tax Codes or Guides, or as above from tax professionals' websites, is not absolutely correct - nothing is certain and that is the only certainty. Until TRD make definitive statements about each and every point of concern (if they do), then no one is absolutely certain of anything - other than that TRD changed their tax rule for income seasoned for 12+ months, and had little idea of the downstream ramifications from taking that action (or they did and told the Minister and he said 'do it anyway'.

I have to say that in response to your "may no longer be a value for money retirement destination" that the fact is that for many people Thailand IS no longer a value for money retirement destination. When I first started looking at where to retire overseas in 2010, the number 1 or 2 in the World Lists for SEAsia was always Thailand. Now Vietnam, The Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia (and even one list Cambodia) are listed above them on most lists. This change started happening after the Junta started making it less attractive for retired Expats (remember - bad guys out). This new tax situation has now placed Thailand last - because no one else taxes their incomes from overseas - every single one of those other countries either excludes retired Expats specifically or provides them an exemption (as long as the money brought into the country is not for 'activities' in their country). Thailand is clearly hell bent on no longer being the chosen destination for retired Expats in SEAsia. I think of it this way - when a Tourist enters any country he/she and brings with them their money to pay for things while on holiday. That money they bring in can be in currency, or transfers, or credit cards, or ATMs, or into a Thai bank account, etc. What sort of idiot country would try to apply income taxes to Tourists who stay more than 179 days in the country over a one year period, bringing in and spending their money - and paying all the local country taxes such as VAT etc. Well, that is what we are in Thailand - long-stay Tourists who 'report' every 90 days, because that is the longest legal stay in Thailand for a Tourist. If this was 2010, I would be looking at The Philippines or Malaysia - absolutely - planned visits to Thailand only.

IMO no. You only liable for taxes on money in your own name - brought to your own account. But if they are 'gifts' for the purposes of supporting family - then she does not have to declare them. But she may one day in the future be asked to account for those transfers - highly unlikely IMO - but keep detailed records. Below is TRD Tax Code - up to 20Million baht per year allowed - 10million to family (kids etc.). Section 38_64 | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th) Go to Section 42 - Paragraphs 27, 28, 29 In fact have a good read of all those Paragraphs that detail what is exempt from income taxes. IMo everyone should read the whole Section in detail - I have found several more exemptions. I know some people say "but this/that/it only applies to Thais and Thai things" But I say BS - there is nothing that says it does not refer to Foreigners. TRD is going to provide an updated Tax Code and Guide to Personal Income Tax Return for 2024 later this year. Link below to last year's Guides (and those previous). Year 2023 | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th) Please not that the Guide to Personal Income Tax Return (ภ.ง.ด.90) is the PIT Guide for people "who received incomes not only from employment" and that Guide to Personal Income Tax Return (ภ.ง.ด.91) is the PIT Guide for people "who received incomes from employment only." As I have said before, and been advised, IMO unless you have to pay income taxes, after all exemptions and allowances and DTA provisions, then you do not have to lodge a tax return. But the Code and Guide will help you calculate if you do have to pay income taxes, but the DTAs are a specialist area and each Country's DTA with Thailand does vary somewhat. My advice to all, is that many people (laymen and professionals) will point to one clause/part and then say "see you do have to ........" I have read a fair bit of the Thai Tax Code and Guides and they are full of contradictions and confusion. IMO there is not one TRD Officer who fully understands how those DAT documents apply when a PIT person is using their Country's DTA to claim exemptions/allowances. There are 61 DTAs and they have been clearly written for Companies with PIT provisions tacked on. As far as I have been told, TRD overall relies on the professional tax companies who use those DTAs for the Company taxation returns that they receive and process.

Yes indeed Jim - he takes it far too personally. Here is my latest take on one of those issues we disagree about - Gifts. Section 38_64 | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th) Go to Section 42 - Paragraphs 27, 28, 29 IMO everyone should read the whole Section in detail - I have found several more exemptions. I know some people say "but this/that/it only applies to Thais and Thai things" But I say BS - there is nothing that says it does not refer to Foreigners. TRD is going to provide an updated Tax Code and Guide to Personal Income Tax Return for 2024 later this year. Perhaps that will also detail and explain those things Expats have been 'discussing'. Year 2023 | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th) Please not that the Guide to Personal Income Tax Return (ภ.ง.ด.90) is the PIT Guide for people "who received incomes not only from employment" and that Guide to Personal Income Tax Return (ภ.ง.ด.91) is the PIT Guide for people "who received incomes from employment only." As I have said before, and been advised, IMO unless you have to pay income taxes, after all exemptions and allowances and DTA provisions, then you do not have to lodge a tax return. The Tax Code and Guide will help you calculate if you do have to pay income taxes, but the DTAs are a specialist area and each Country's DTA with Thailand does vary somewhat. As a person that dealt with Contract Law for over 30 years in business, I have some experience in reading detailed lengthy technical and legal documents. My advice to all, is that many people (laymen and professionals) will point to one clause/part and then say "see you do have to ........" I have read a fair bit of the Thai Tax Code and Guides and they are full of contradictions and confusion. IMO there is not one TRD Officer who fully understands how those DAT documents apply when a PIT person is using their Country's DTA to claim exemptions/allowances. There are 61 DTAs and they have been clearly written for Companies with PIT provisions tacked on. As far as I have been told, TRD overall relies on the professional tax companies who use those DTAs for the Company taxation returns that they receive and process.

Anyone thinking that the delusional left are not mentally 'challenged' needs help - but not from this 'Doctor'.

100% true. I will explain for the liberal thinkers. You are not saying that Biden caused the shooter to do that. You are saying Trump would be blamed by media and Dems, and that Trump would be indicted by a rabid Democrat AG. Obviously true 100%. Obviously.